Demonetisation and its Aftermath
- Thread starter psyph3r
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blr_p
Skilled
Ya, so when are you going to aspire to be better than one. There is no difference that i can see between you and bhakts whatsoever
Can't engage, can only resort to name calling. This is all harmless to me btw
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rdst_1
Skilled
Well if he didn't have the time and mechanisms in place to ensure the success of his plan, then why did he even go ahead with it in the first place.
I usually wouldn't share an FB post on here but this one sums it up beautifully, what I have been trying to say.
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NotMyRealName
When Hitler was Fuhrer of Nazi Germany, he was still considered a head of state on international visits and accorded the appropriate respect. Much like our PM now.
Only much later was the Nazi party and Hitler reviled and all the abuses hurled on his posthumous head.
If we as humans refuse to learn from history and repeat the same mistakes from over seven decades ago, then utter shame on us.
Only much later was the Nazi party and Hitler reviled and all the abuses hurled on his posthumous head.
If we as humans refuse to learn from history and repeat the same mistakes from over seven decades ago, then utter shame on us.
@Julian No wonder there are bhakts,I suggest you to read this:
https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatim...ri-lankesh-the-middle-ground-is-under-attack/
Above blog is written in protest of gauri lankesh & other such killings & protest "extremist right" but it also applies to "extremist left". You think that by comparing Modi to Hitler you are doing some sort of social service but in reality you are just creating a new bhakt. Seriously though how far you need to stretch your imagination to compare Hitler To Modi. Comparing a monolithic imperialist european country facing a loss of national pride after a world war to a nation who closest came to being monolithic during Ashok's rule & who in its entire existence never once created imperialist empire or colonies. Hell if I was not so rational I would have voted Modi just to piss you off but lucky for you I am rational & don't let emotions cloud my judgement.
https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatim...ri-lankesh-the-middle-ground-is-under-attack/
Above blog is written in protest of gauri lankesh & other such killings & protest "extremist right" but it also applies to "extremist left". You think that by comparing Modi to Hitler you are doing some sort of social service but in reality you are just creating a new bhakt. Seriously though how far you need to stretch your imagination to compare Hitler To Modi. Comparing a monolithic imperialist european country facing a loss of national pride after a world war to a nation who closest came to being monolithic during Ashok's rule & who in its entire existence never once created imperialist empire or colonies. Hell if I was not so rational I would have voted Modi just to piss you off but lucky for you I am rational & don't let emotions cloud my judgement.
rdst_1
Skilled
You are again missing the point.
We are not saying that Modi is Hitler. Only saying that legality alone is not enough. The decisions and implementations have to meet moral standards as well because it is easy to form laws which suit you when you are in power.
The society and people have to call out the chosen leaders on morality of their actions as well otherwise one allows the situation to worsen as the germans did in case of Hitler or like Russia is doing in case of Putin.
We are not saying that Modi is Hitler. Only saying that legality alone is not enough. The decisions and implementations have to meet moral standards as well because it is easy to form laws which suit you when you are in power.
The society and people have to call out the chosen leaders on morality of their actions as well otherwise one allows the situation to worsen as the germans did in case of Hitler or like Russia is doing in case of Putin.
Here we go again,Holocaust was done by a dictatorsahip(aka no rule of law),slavery was a well followed policy for more than a century(still abolished by an elected govt only) & segregation was held illegal by the judicial system only(in case you didn't know).This is what I call twisting of facts to support one's viewpoint.Another very good way to create a bhakt.Well if he didn't have the time and mechanisms in place to ensure the success of his plan, then why did he even go ahead with it in the first place.
I usually wouldn't share an FB post on here but this one sums it up beautifully, what I have been trying to say.
Who gives you the authority of saying "legality is not enough". Are you some "supreme moral authority" or are you some "supreme legal authority" to make these claims? Hitler's Germany was not rule of law & neither is Putin's Russia,are you saying Indian judicial system is useless(see the point above). No law made by any govt in India can violate the basic structure of Indian constitution,this is what the main job of Supreme Court is.
Maybe I have missed some super duper elite English grammar rule invented by Shakespere but maybe you could clarify how the above sentence is not implying "We are not saying that Modi is Hitler".
rdst_1
Skilled
Dictatorship is not same as not having a law. There are laws, but just being made by one person/group of people according to what they think is right.
They formed a law, on which many people acted and killed as many Jews they could find. It's not as if there was lawlessness inside Germany.
However, the people, as a collective, were not strong enough to stand up and defy their leader. To not remove him from his post at the very beginning of his immoral, yet legal actions, they allowed him to grow more and more powerful until it was too late.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law
I am a member on a popular site with a voting system for a genre of tv series & there I always found comments explaining why a seemingly average series got 10/10 votes & reason given was that because some voted 1/10 for that series & hence to balance it they voted 10/10 even when in reality the series was not as liked or as hated by either group. I didn't understood it well but seeing the discussion here now I understand the rationale behind such behavior.
blr_p
Skilled
How do you enforce this morality ? elections only there is no other way. That is why legality is the only thing that counts or more accurately the lack of illegality
rdst_1
Skilled
Have I said anywhere that legality is not important.
Elections only happen every five years. What if some government passes an immoral rule in between elections. Are we then supposed to follow those laws blindly. Definitely not. We can and should oppose such laws by opposing as a collective. The Salt Law passed by the British governmemt was such a law which was immoral and hence the public opposed it in the form of Dandi March. Just because we are now being governed by our own chosen representatives doesn't mean we now shouldn't or can't oppose such immoral decisions anymore.
I don't get why people get riled up when someone asks for more transparency and accountability. Isn't it better for everyone if there was more transparency and accountability in the way a government is run. That's all we are asking for.
If someone is not competent enough to run a country then they should be made to answer for it. Maybe they'll think twice the next time before choosing to run for a seat.
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NotMyRealName
First, i think you need to smoke a joint. Or get laid. Or let the PMS symptoms pass.
Next, I think now in 2018, what's going on here and in other countries like the Philippines etc. is the modern era version of dictatorships. It's cleverly engineered to appear to be a democracy but it's far more subtle than traditional dictatorships. And he doesn't have to go full dictator, just enough to retain power by any means necessary. Heck even people in the BJP think he's autocratic.
And if you think that there still is a working justice system in the country, maybe step away from your screen, clear out the tunnel vision, and look around at everything that's going on. The supreme court pretty much has lost all autonomy. Cops were being transferred for upholding the law (when it was BJP people breaking it). No probs if they're nabbing opposition members.
Unlike the BJP and their supporters, who hate Rahul just because, all those with some semblance of sanity who are opposing the BJP is not because they hate them or Modi. It's because what they see going on around the country for the last 3 years disgusts and disturbs them. Far more than during UPA.
There's a lot more i want to add but i realise there is absolutely no point in trying to reason with a person who's already made up his mind.
blr_p
Skilled
Whose morality are we following here ? Where is it defined
Can you cite any according to you immoral rules ?
The Brits were an occupying power with no representation by the people. Are you contending the present govt is the same. You are commiting the same error when you compare with a dictatorship, no representation of the people, no legitimacy. Just force is enough to maintain power
Every govt is accountable at the elections. If they want to stay in power that is how they maintain their accountability & legitimacy for that matter. Things can spin out of control quickly otherwise. Law & order etc. Opposition & opponents fishing in troubled waters. Many things. That part that gets me is why this hasn't happened more widely and why we still are a single political unit. We must be doing something right is the only conclusion i'm left with when i see the mess in countries all around our periphery
They used to say the same thing about MMS. Why doesn't he answer. Well his case was unique, he was accountable without being responsible. His boss was responsible without being accountable. It's amazing it took two terms for people to figure this out. Modi won't be that lucky. Come next May and people aren't better off than when he entered then he will be out. But i don't think that will happen at this point in time
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swatkats
Skilled
rdst_1
Skilled
1) It is highly immoral and unjust to the innocent people to put them through such hardship as they did due to demonetization. It is even more immoral to keep sitting at the seat when the move has been a failure due to an improper implementation and resulted in loss of so much tax money. The move came straight from the PM and he should resign considering how big a failure it has been and how much money was wasted due to it.
2) Just not getting elected or getting suspended/transferred is not accountable enough. That is akin to being let go scot free. Laws need to be passed that make the representatives more accountable for their actions. There should be more checks and balances and dire consequences for anyone in the government/beauracracy/police/judiciary if they fail to do their job properly.
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NotMyRealName
He didn't resign or do anything after the riots, so fat chance of him taking the fall for this...
blr_p
Skilled
The Brits doing notes ban neatly strips away any political motivations. We are left with perhaps a vindictive govt with not much concern for consequences thereof. You could argue this govt acted in a similar manner with representation. Need to read more of the papers from the era and the one with janata. But initial impression is no difference between '46 & 2016 with govt intent regardless of consequences
Before saying vindictive have to look for intent. What is it. For the British it was a move against war time black market profiteering and in Europe plunder. Let me repeat that again
What are we left with ?
black market profiteering
That was the govt's target. But there has to be a payoff otherwise its pointless. By making people declare what they have they find out how much is in circulation. Another way of saying this is turning black into white but for what purpose ? taxes
How much more can the govt tax as a result of this move. That is where success lies or not. This is where answers are not forthcoming, we hear about percentages but not amounts
Then as now, the decision was made that the pro's outweigh the cons.
This one is harder to pin down
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swatkats
Skilled
IAF raised bills of Rs 29.41 crore to ferry currency notes, reveals RTI
Over Rs 29.41 crore was spent on using the Indian Air Force’s ultra-modern transport aircraft — the C-17 and the C-130J Super Hercules — to ferry the newly-issued Rs 2,000 and Rs 500 currency notes post-demonetisation, according to an RTI reply.
Over Rs 29.41 crore was spent on using the Indian Air Force’s ultra-modern transport aircraft — the C-17 and the C-130J Super Hercules — to ferry the newly-issued Rs 2,000 and Rs 500 currency notes post-demonetisation, according to an RTI reply.
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