Epic fail by BJP govt. in gurgaon in yesterdays rain!
- Thread starter RakaKaKaka
- Start date
rakesh_ic
ex-Mod
You are only partially right. Let me rephrase it for you - "Anything good (if any) in Delhi is AK (not even AAP), anything bad in Delhi is Modi and BJP (both)".
RakaKaKaka
Adept
lol,
i just wrote bjp as people do not know the person here so to simplify things. i do vote for the person like i mentioned in this thread later if you could only read it.[DOUBLEPOST=1469952349][/DOUBLEPOST]guys this is not a bjp vs congress vs aap thread. lol calm down.[DOUBLEPOST=1469952583][/DOUBLEPOST]exclusive news by india today
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Party Monger
Skilled
Yep. He's stopped some 20 bills and has the police after AAP, while women are raped day and night. But whats under AAP, its been taken care of very well.
You only need to see the pics of Gurgaon to discern the crap level of governance by BJP
Captain FactCheck is here to save you from your ignorance.
Repeat after me - "You dont judge a politician by the way he behaves, you judge him by his work."
He is fighting the PM of India who has severe insecurities now that AK demolished his Modi wave into peices. Dat broken ego seeks revenge. He working against Cong + BJP who combined have ruled 100% of this country's central govt since freedom. He is fighting deeply rooted corruption, running agovt that doesnt have its own police. Cant pass its own laws, which it has passed some 20 of but stuck at LG or Home ministry. STILL they have managed to make a difference. So get off you high horse and give them a freaking break!
Did you check how much multiple of that Modi spent? You do understand they have to keep up with him to be a viable alternative? That budget is not for his personal ads. ITs for ALL of the state govt's expenditures. I agree though no party should get to print pics of their leaders in any govt ads, but that has to be for all parties, untill then, pick on the person who leads it first.
You ignorance is insane man. The MCD is ruled by the BJP. The worker fees has to be given by the MCD. So BJP is the one not paying. Still the AAP averted crisis by quickly solving the issue. Please for ****s sake dont target people who are fighting the corrupt. The MCDs are supposed to get revenue from all the advertisment hoarding etc. How many of them are there in Delhi? Check how much each costs to buy ads on. Now multiply it by the number of hoardings and calculate total net earnings. And then see the MCDs budget. You'll be in for a shock. Why? Cause the hoardings are illegal and have been put up by BJP netas who take money privately and wont let anyone bring them down cause they own the MCD. Educated ignorants like you need to either check facts or stop shoving your ignorant beliefs in others faces. You cause more harm than good.
AK doesnt have a fake Yale degree. Contrary to Irani, AK has done insanly good work in education and other areas directly under their control. So I repeat again, Dont be ignorant, dont play to BJP propaganda, see some sense. Just type in AAP education and find all the info you need. Irani over last two years has systematically demolished educations system and institutions. She has politicized education and constantly violated the autonomy of educational institutions.
How are you going to get capable leaders leaders if you call the person fighting against all odds as useless for trying to make the best of a very tough situation?
How are you going to get capable leaders when you are okay with shit politicians but will shit on anyone doing a better job than them, for not being perfect as per your imagined standards?
How are you going to get capable leaders if you dont get your head out of the ignorance and actually check facts before spewing out things that arent even based in reality?
How are you going to get capable leaders when you a severely reductionist approach that's not much better than the monkey who shouts "the nation wants to know" everynight on TV?
How are you going to get capable leaders when you safely ignore the standards set by the Party ruling the central govt and go after people trying to do a better job?
How are you going to get capable leaders when you everytime an educated person gets into politics you expect the moon from him but dont have patience to wait for them to learn from their mistakes. Education doesnt make them Superman.
I'll agree that its an unequal battle Kejri is fighting ( hat's off on that), one has CBI, Police , NIA plus lots of fan following; other than already broken Presstitutes , Kejri has nothing Concrete on his side - By Calling Names ; He's already accepted a defeat. He should hold on his nerves and watch his language , the Modi's Following which he wants to change sides is all about leaders' behavior & how he handles the tough situation diplomatically. PR agencies won't guarantee you that, had it been a case, with the Amount of wealth RG can spend on PR ; he should have been PM. AK is appearing mor frustrated IMHO and he needs to correct accordingly.
Finally what he wants prove ? by calling PM by names every now and then, you're making him more famous and deserving.
The restless Enemy always gives a best compliment , He's doing just what Modi wants him to do ! Over the last two years AK has lost much credibility and being seen as useless dramebaaz nothing more . Tomorrow , even if he gets some genuine lead to expose Modi's Corruption ( remote possibility) ; the moment it comes from AK's mouth it will lose its importance !
Even if he succeeds in proving that PM is a Coward and Psychopath person ; AK will still be called , just better than a Psychopath and Coward Nothing more! ( I hope you get what I mean to say here).
I have already mentioned earlier that Govt is biggest Goonda out there (that's why we pay taxes - Hafta),
central Govt is much bigger than any state Govt and its CM. If you indulge in Vendetta politics (trying to implicate Jaitley etc) , Central Govt with its power and reach will demolish you in no time. Don't become a cry baby now, you'll reap what you sow Or Make sure none of your MLAs have remotest illegal activity in the present or Past . His choice of MLA candidates has been riddled with lots of glaring mistakes and everyone knows that (Sheeshe ke Mehel mein rehne wale...).
Don't Pick up a stone ( to Pelt) ; if you are not ready for a Pellet (in the Eye) - The Message is Loud and Clear for Everyone.
Don't you observe why other bigger state CMs - Mamta (much bigger dramatist ), Nitish ( Biggest anti Modi ), Mulayam (inherently anti BJP) - are keeping quiet?
This filthy blame game can be done much better than AK by them (with complete state & its Police under them), but why are they keeping quiet ? They very well know the consequences and how to handle things politically instead of useless publicity stunts. They know when and how to strike Politically and more effectively than being seen as foul mouthed , irresponsible blabberer, without following his accusations to logical conclusions . AK clearly lacks that expertise, from a better educated man we expect a fast learning on such political innuendos.
Kejri Has done remarkable Job in Health and education sector of Delhi no doubts on that, I am still not writing him off But, So is KCR (Telangana), Mamta & So is Modi on many fronts.
If you think AK will be less Dictator than Modi-Shah duo if elected as PM you're wrong ! In fact he'll be much worse on that account. With Bhushan & Yadav being thrown out unceremoniously, Lack of inner party democracy has been exposed by many people in AAP. AK is clearly not ready for his elevation currently IMHO.
People of Delhi are quite Intelligent , They have voted for AAP in state elections 67/70 ! if that is the only validity for AKs claims then the same people have defeated AAP by 7/7 in favour of BJP for MP elections. Clearly they don't consider AAP chief worth for the Central role . Stick to Delhi, Improve it much beyond everybody's expectation and win some other states and gradually you'll be elevated to that role (Crying doesn't help) is the message AK doesn't seem to get .
Elections in this country have been won by Securing Minority Politics (20% Votes) + Reservation Politics (25% Votes) & Keeping the non Dalit Hindu Votes (about 60%) firmly divided so that they don't become decisive. Modi's Magic worked because , they were able to consolidate the Hindu votes to a decisive victory. AKs creation was to benefit from the popularity of IAC and divide the Non Dalit Hindu votes going decisively in favor of BJP. By indulging in Skull cap , pseudo liberal Politics he's dividing the first half unfortunately.
Congress has done this successfully time and again in the past (to keep BJP off), be it promotion of Chiranjeevi to stop TDP, MNS to stop BJP-SS, Yeddy etc to stop BJP in Karnataka; so AK in Delhi is appearing like 'B' team of Congress. The Vote for AK was more against Corrupt Sheila Govt than anti Modi, by shifting focus too often and targeting much popular Modi on trivial issues he's alienating himself further from his target population. This population will not fall for publicity stunts, you will have to be more concrete, objective , diplomatic enough , personal integrity matters most for them to switch sides.
I'm more concerned about my country than AK or Modi here, what if Modi fails( He hasn't till now for all practical purposes) ? is AK a better substitute ? unfortunately with his current positioning he is far away from being a second choice.
BTW, as all AK supporters are not AAPTARDS, all AK criticizers are not Bhakths ; if you still want to go ahead and make it a Bhakth vs Aaptard fight , I'll stop it here.
Unfortunately , AK appears more frustrated and defeated than anybody else.
rdst_1
Skilled
Like mentioned by drkrack, AK has every right to be frustrated. However he should display more patience, especially considering that he is now a leader of an elected government.
As a new entrant this abrasiveness when speaking in public or making comments might have worked but many people have started detesting him for the same considering he has been a CM for some time now. If he hadn't thought about such issues cropping up when he contested elections in a pseudo state like Delhi, then that's a big mistake.
Having said all that, I still believe that the work he does is more than enough for me to vote for his candidates. However, the no of people like me are slowly decreasing because of his so called antics. He might be completely right when he comes out and says that his life is in danger. However, he most certainly needs to hire someone who writes these statements for him. Unfortunately, politics has no place for emotions. His anger and frustration comes across from his statement and that alone is a victory for his opponents. Unfortunately, in public life of a politician you just can't show weakness even if the frustration is genuine.
General public is like a herd of sheep in which most of the people don't care about what's good for the society. To deal with such people one has to portray an aura which shows you are calm and in control even in the face of adversity.
That's the only way you can lead the society towards betterment.
I think he should let someone, who can portray a calm demeanor, take over as spokesperson for the party, and concentrate more on the implementation and administrative aspects of the party. Building the party by recruiting more and more able members in different states should be his main agenda so that they can come across as a viable alternative for voters all over the country.
As a new entrant this abrasiveness when speaking in public or making comments might have worked but many people have started detesting him for the same considering he has been a CM for some time now. If he hadn't thought about such issues cropping up when he contested elections in a pseudo state like Delhi, then that's a big mistake.
Having said all that, I still believe that the work he does is more than enough for me to vote for his candidates. However, the no of people like me are slowly decreasing because of his so called antics. He might be completely right when he comes out and says that his life is in danger. However, he most certainly needs to hire someone who writes these statements for him. Unfortunately, politics has no place for emotions. His anger and frustration comes across from his statement and that alone is a victory for his opponents. Unfortunately, in public life of a politician you just can't show weakness even if the frustration is genuine.
General public is like a herd of sheep in which most of the people don't care about what's good for the society. To deal with such people one has to portray an aura which shows you are calm and in control even in the face of adversity.
That's the only way you can lead the society towards betterment.
I think he should let someone, who can portray a calm demeanor, take over as spokesperson for the party, and concentrate more on the implementation and administrative aspects of the party. Building the party by recruiting more and more able members in different states should be his main agenda so that they can come across as a viable alternative for voters all over the country.
It was because of the Vision of Mr Jawahar Lal Nehru who wanted to have a European like City and there weren't many Indian architects involved. Mostly French,Swiss and Italians. Thanks to them that it's a very planned city and won recognition from UNESCO recently for a city which is approx 60 years old.
Party Monger
Skilled
Thanks for the reply, while you have somethings right, you have got many more things wrong. Ofcourse all in my opinion, and i shall try to just give proof against the above.
So coming to what you said, you couldnt be more wrong. Modi spent two years abusing and crying about Congress. There was no dignity in what he said. You might say the lowest Kejri has sunk is to say Central govt might kill him, but then you see this -
Now would you call Modi "Dramebaaz" ? The only credibility he has lost is with the classes that already enjoy a certain amount of privilidge and arent affected by BJP's antics and can affort to vote on whims and silly judgements. That's probably not even 1% of the vote share.
You will be very surprised when you see what people think in reality. They dont mind laughing at Kejriwals jokes and still going out and voting for him. This is not Rahul Gandhi, he doesnt utter a word without meaning. His death threat video was to bring attention to crackdown on AAP, and it followed with atleast 20 articles on the same. I'd say keep the judgement aside, see who's doing the best work. Their work is being appreciated across the world. Far more than what you can say for Modi where most of his schemes are Jumlas or just photo ops. Swatch Bharat's budget is lower than the sanitation budget of UPA. The corpus set up for donation has seen very little donation. If you check any serious successful schemes they have been started by the Congress.
Im not kidding. I have zero allegiance to any party. I only see what they say and what they do.
Kejriwal - Does drama as per bhakts, talks complete sense when it comes to pin point issues and actually works on them.
Modi - Anecdotal incidents passed off as logic, Drama (pics above), Spews venom, forever in campaign mode, keeps silent important issues, has indirectly abetted a whole bunch of fanatics, constantly saying something doing something else. Taking a U turn on everything he has said before elections - AAdhaar, GST, MNREGA, Pakistan, National security, USA and what not. I can give you a very very long list but I guess you'd understand.
While on the other hand all you can say for Kejriwal is he doesnt follow up on his accusations. Tell me how will he? Had police? No. Has Anti corruption? No. Often when you make allegations you dont have whole proof, you have indications, then an investigation is done by the police and truth if revealed. Tell me why arent Sonia, Rahul, Sheila Dixit behind bars? Why was AAP's anti corruption bureau raided by Modi's paramilitary and forcefully taken over on the same day they were about to file case and take action on Sheila Dixit and Najeeb Jung on the Tanker case?
As for the people he removed, they were on a very high horse. I honestly don't think you can win elections with theoretical ideas. Sometimes you dont get the best candidates and you have to make do. Its a part of doing literally anything. If all a bunch of people will do is sit on a high horse and judge your efforts as insufficient with the alternative being just to abandon what you're doing then I guess its obvious that they need to go. Had they been seasoned politicians like Advani, they might have even agreed to a margdarshak mandal isque thing in AAP. But they weren't and hence the dirt.
sharktale1212
Skilled
I really don't want to get into this debate. But this needs to be highlighted in spate of your posts.
That said, I will repeat something which has been said to you in previous threads/posts. Why does every critique of Kejriwal has something to do with "bhakt" or Modi. Why can't people criticize him while having "zero allegiance to any party"? Or is it something which is there only reserved for some special "holier than thou" types?
All states with a different party than the center have an adversarial relationship. That has been a norm over the last 70+ years. You don't need to look far back - Manipur and Uttarakhand are the recent cases. I am sure if you dig enough you will find similar news of the state CMs saying something about BJP, Modi or Central Government. But they are not tagged as, to use your words - "dramebaaz". Or take Nitish Kumar and his relationship with BJP and specially Modi is well documented and sure he would have said something similar since 2014. But is he called a "dramebaaz"? Even Sheila Dixit who ruled Delhi since 1998 and was CM for all NDA years would have said things against Central Government but was she tagged as "dramebaaz"?
As for what is wrong with Kejriwal? Look no further than Nitish Kumar and how he works. I hope Kejriwal does something like that.
Secondly, whats wrong in changing views really? I still don't understand this phenomena of people taking things black and white. Why shouldn't views change as you learn and understand things? Or is that if someone thinks x and then learns more and appreciates y, he should stick to x on some ideological grounds? Why is there a fear in proven wrong? A debate and discussion happens not because someone wants to prove someone wrong rather to learn, teach and maybe convince others of their thought process.
As for @OP, Bangalore also has similar problems last week. This goes way beyond BJP or Congress or x, y, z. As you say BJP could do something about the drainage but please do tell do you or your friends know who their MLC is? If they do, did they petition him or talk to him/her about drainage and cleaning before the monsoon started? Or is it the simple case of driving looking at the rear mirror. Government are not someone's mom and supposed to take cleanup after everyone's mess. They are corrupt and its up to everyone to highlight issues and bring them to government's attention.
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Party Monger
Skilled
I agree with most of it. I criticize him all the time. Hell i've written replies/blogs giving them criticism and its been taken very well. Its just that when you use those words like dramebaaz, no one in their right minds would take that as constructive criticism. Secondly, if you've dealt with bhakts as long as I have, you will understand that what they say and their real motive has zero correlation. For instance they criticized Congress, and wanted modi for development, now ideally a sane person would want to keep track if that was happening or not? Atleast at the best humanly possible rate, not even talking about his jumlas. But you dont see that, now instead they defend him when a lot of growth numbers are negative. They will call you out to be a "prestitute" or some other things. Will invoke "nationalism" to protect their Fuheur. Anyway all of these will be irrelevant as we get closer to next national elections. You cant make excuses forever.
But the larger point is, you will criticize ( and i do too) but there is nothing one can take away from criticism like Dramebaaz. Shoould they stop raising issues? Maybe Nitish Kumar doesnt feel that strongly for these issues. Who knows. You cant give the example of one person and say another is wrong cause he didnt do the same. Laws are the context here. And AK is well within his rights to throw allegations, just like Modi did to Congress for a good 3 years. No one questioned him. Hell he was responsible for the death of 2000 people. Congress didnt make his govt perpetually disfunctional. Its about what level you are willing to go to, and BJP and its bhakts are willing to break the idea of India to have their dictator rule the country.
sharktale1212
Skilled
I don't believe Modi has been elected for development. It has more of anti incumbency. I don't expect him to turn around fortune in 2yrs even though he might have claimed this in his speeches. And there again, most politicians make empty promises just like AAP did with CCTV cameras. Yes there are explanations on both sides for each claim.
That said, again what is wrong with nationalism? Take a look at the recent President conventions - Republic and Democratic Party in US. The "Great USA" rhetoric was very loud. I don't get why is someone thinking "Great India" is bad and invoking Hitler? It wasn't only the Great FatherLand call which lead to his rise. But then that is another topic in itself.
Your 2nd para contradicts itself. While you say Modi did x so why wouldn't Kejriwal do y later in the para, you start by saying one person, Nitish, shouldn't be compared with other, Kejriwal, because they are different? Why is that?
Because you seem to be confusing or missing the point, let me reiterate the point in the same vein I did earlier, using US elections. Last week it came out that Democratic Party had conspired against Bernie Sanders and were actively supporting Clinton. Now Bernie could have, and well within his rights, raised a hellstorm or even stood in elections on Libertian or Tea Party ticket. He could have run for President of US but he acquiesced and stood beside Clinton.
It wasn't about whether it was the law or rights or something else, it was about not turmoiling a situation which is already bad.
Kejriwal is not doing that. You might disagree but people appreciate people who overcome adversity and deliver, they are the ones who "inspire". Public doesn't appreciate people who only raise issues. While you might paint it as feeling strongly for issues, fact remains Kejriwal is good as an agitator, he is not good as an administrator.
Over and out
rakesh_ic
ex-Mod
cant be put better than this.I don't believe Modi has been elected for development. It has more of anti incumbency. I don't expect him to turn around fortune in 2yrs even though he might have claimed this in his speeches. And there again, most politicians make empty promises just like AAP did with CCTV cameras. Yes there are explanations on both sides for each claim.
That said, again what is wrong with nationalism? Take a look at the recent President conventions - Republic and Democratic Party in US. The "Great USA" rhetoric was very loud. I don't get why is someone thinking "Great India" is bad and invoking Hitler? It wasn't only the Great FatherLand call which lead to his rise. But then that is another topic in itself.
Your 2nd para contradicts itself. While you say Modi did x so why wouldn't Kejriwal do y later in the para, you start by saying one person, Nitish, shouldn't be compared with other, Kejriwal, because they are different? Why is that?
Because you seem to be confusing or missing the point, let me reiterate the point in the same vein I did earlier, using US elections. Last week it came out that Democratic Party had conspired against Bernie Sanders and were actively supporting Clinton. Now Bernie could have, and well within his rights, raised a hellstorm or even stood in elections on Libertian or Tea Party ticket. He could have run for President of US but he acquiesced and stood beside Clinton.
It wasn't about whether it was the law or rights or something else, it was about not turmoiling a situation which is already bad.
Kejriwal is not doing that. You might disagree but people appreciate people who overcome adversity and deliver, they are the ones who "inspire". Public doesn't appreciate people who only raise issues. While you might paint it as feeling strongly for issues, fact remains Kejriwal is good as an agitator, he is not good as an administrator.
Over and out
You are still not getting what I mean to say here..Thanks for the reply, while you have somethings right, you have got many more things wrong. Ofcourse all in my opinion, and i shall try to just give proof against the above.
So coming to what you said, you couldnt be more wrong. Modi spent two years abusing and crying about Congress. There was no dignity in what he said. You might say the lowest Kejri has sunk is to say Central govt might kill him, but then you see this -
Now would you call Modi "Dramebaaz" ? The only credibility he has lost is with the classes that already enjoy a certain amount of privilidge and arent affected by BJP's antics and can affort to vote on whims and silly judgements. That's probably not even 1% of the vote share.
You will be very surprised when you see what people think in reality. They dont mind laughing at Kejriwals jokes and still going out and voting for him. This is not Rahul Gandhi, he doesnt utter a word without meaning. His death threat video was to bring attention to crackdown on AAP, and it followed with atleast 20 articles on the same. I'd say keep the judgement aside, see who's doing the best work. Their work is being appreciated across the world. Far more than what you can say for Modi where most of his schemes are Jumlas or just photo ops. Swatch Bharat's budget is lower than the sanitation budget of UPA. The corpus set up for donation has seen very little donation. If you check any serious successful schemes they have been started by the Congress.
Im not kidding. I have zero allegiance to any party. I only see what they say and what they do.
Kejriwal - Does drama as per bhakts, talks complete sense when it comes to pin point issues and actually works on them.
Modi - Anecdotal incidents passed off as logic, Drama (pics above), Spews venom, forever in campaign mode, keeps silent important issues, has indirectly abetted a whole bunch of fanatics, constantly saying something doing something else. Taking a U turn on everything he has said before elections - AAdhaar, GST, MNREGA, Pakistan, National security, USA and what not. I can give you a very very long list but I guess you'd understand.
While on the other hand all you can say for Kejriwal is he doesnt follow up on his accusations. Tell me how will he? Had police? No. Has Anti corruption? No. Often when you make allegations you dont have whole proof, you have indications, then an investigation is done by the police and truth if revealed. Tell me why arent Sonia, Rahul, Sheila Dixit behind bars? Why was AAP's anti corruption bureau raided by Modi's paramilitary and forcefully taken over on the same day they were about to file case and take action on Sheila Dixit and Najeeb Jung on the Tanker case?
As for the people he removed, they were on a very high horse. I honestly don't think you can win elections with theoretical ideas. Sometimes you dont get the best candidates and you have to make do. Its a part of doing literally anything. If all a bunch of people will do is sit on a high horse and judge your efforts as insufficient with the alternative being just to abandon what you're doing then I guess its obvious that they need to go. Had they been seasoned politicians like Advani, they might have even agreed to a margdarshak mandal isque thing in AAP. But they weren't and hence the dirt.
Again why are you comparing Modi to safeguarding AKs image? Modi made some claims in 2010, doesn't make AK right in 2016. Why would you need Modi's behavior anologies to Justify AKs positioning?
Cannot AK himself Justify his claims without referring to Modi?
Can't he come out with some evidence of threat to his life?
Now coming to Modi's claims, he was under similar pressure from Centre and all its agencies for 12 long years to implicate his role in the riots, they tried everything ; But couldn't break him.
Even those statements weren't made in a fashion as dramatic as AK did. He didn't even call a press meeting to vent his frustration ; it was mentioned in a less dramatic way. Inspite of centre working over time to implicate him, he didn't break a sweat and kept working for the state and was successful. Forget 12yrs AK isn't able to tolerate the pressure for 2yrs, This lack of experience to handle things diplomatically shows his weakness.
The threat perception to Modi's life was real, he was always given a Z+ security for the same. BTW did you forget the centre's role in Ishrat fiasco. They went to the extent of forging documents to achieve their claims. Let's wait for AK to produce some evidence of such magnanimity in this regard. Poorly selected MLAs going behind bars is Leadership responsibility, own it.
BTW when was the last time Modi played a victimization card? Say 4 yrs ago, how many times he has repeatedly claimed it after that ? AK plays victimization card almost on daily basis - that's how he gets to be called a dramatist. People are Fed up with such antics. If you didn't know the limitations of Delhi as a state before becoming a CM, your degrees are useless.
Someone from AAP has claimed death threat from AK himself
http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Fac...-sacked-AAP-minister/articleshow/53437702.cms
I think AK should end this entertainment show for his own good , take up a port folio in Delhi govt and ensure much better results. He should work towards a alternative politics (non cong, non bjp) which we all expect him to deliver, not the skull cap politics or reservation politics - there are 20 other parties doing this currently. People expect a behavioral integrity from their leader along with work ethics (Not only in India, everywhere else too - Bill & Monica you're aware of), and show them that you have it in you ; then no need to invest in PR - you'll be automatically voted up. I think he is currently not being innovative enough in his approach.
Party Monger
Skilled
I respect your opinion mate, you have probably thought over it a lot more than most others posting here, So while I wait for Final cut to render a video, let me humour you.I don't believe Modi has been elected for development. It has more of anti incumbency. I don't expect him to turn around fortune in 2yrs even though he might have claimed this in his speeches. And there again, most politicians make empty promises just like AAP did with CCTV cameras. Yes there are explanations on both sides for each claim.
That said, again what is wrong with nationalism? Take a look at the recent President conventions - Republic and Democratic Party in US. The "Great USA" rhetoric was very loud. I don't get why is someone thinking "Great India" is bad and invoking Hitler? It wasn't only the Great FatherLand call which lead to his rise. But then that is another topic in itself.
Your 2nd para contradicts itself. While you say Modi did x so why wouldn't Kejriwal do y later in the para, you start by saying one person, Nitish, shouldn't be compared with other, Kejriwal, because they are different? Why is that?
Because you seem to be confusing or missing the point, let me reiterate the point in the same vein I did earlier, using US elections. Last week it came out that Democratic Party had conspired against Bernie Sanders and were actively supporting Clinton. Now Bernie could have, and well within his rights, raised a hellstorm or even stood in elections on Libertian or Tea Party ticket. He could have run for President of US but he acquiesced and stood beside Clinton.
It wasn't about whether it was the law or rights or something else, it was about not turmoiling a situation which is already bad.
Kejriwal is not doing that. You might disagree but people appreciate people who overcome adversity and deliver, they are the ones who "inspire". Public doesn't appreciate people who only raise issues. While you might paint it as feeling strongly for issues, fact remains Kejriwal is good as an agitator, he is not good as an administrator.
Over and out
1) Nationalism - There was a time in India, after independence, when just waving a flag and shouting nationalistic praises was the lowest form of national duty. The sense was that any one can raise a flag and wave it, if you really love your nation, stop talking about it and actually do soemthing to make it proud, to make it better.
Nationalism in this context is not service to the nation, its service to the BJP. An actor criticizes the govt indirectly, and they use nationalism to silence him. You cannon criticize the BJP else they will use nationalism against you. Where was their nationalism while criticizing Congress, or India under congress? Or did Modi win one day and suddenly India became great?
The rhetoric in the RNC and DNC is mostly cause of Trump's "make America great again". Its not being used to silece critics. The best answer to criticism is an explanation or a debate but it definitely very lame to question someone's love for their nation cause their criticism made you uncomfortable.
Nationalism is a beast. Its an empty vessel that is used to make a lot of noise to no end. Want to serve you country then stop the lip service and show real results.
2) Bernie /Clinton - Indian politics and AMerican politics are very different. Bernie and Clinton have a lot more in common than bernie and Trump. Bernie also knows he wont make it anywhere without the DNC nomination, no matter how great his ideals. Whereas everyone here in India knows BJP = Congress + better PR machinery. There is literally nothing else to it. The sooner they die the better. I dont just want AAP, I'd like a lot more newer and better parties that aren't full of these stupid ****s. So when you know that, there's no point in supporting another evil with a better PR machinery. Look at their paid dogs on social media abusing women with the worst language possible. BJP has found this unique way where they abuse detractors with the worst abuses and then say "people call him/her this" so dont believe them. Its the Donald Trump equivalent of "A lot of people are saying", "A lot of people have observed", "Im not saying but this is what a lot of people say"
3) I didnt contradict myself. Kejriwal is a independent person. He is literally giving Modi his own medicine. Modi like him was never on good term with the central govt and kept doing what you call drama. All im saying is, why the hypocrisy of responding to the same things in differently?
Why didnt you ask him in 2012 to act like other good state CMs so that for the greater good GST can pass, Aadhar can become legislated. Both of which he opposed just for the sake of it, and then when he became the PM was suddenly in favour. Much to your surprise, you'll find AAP has almost never done that. They have been very consistent. As for CCTV its a 5yr target, and even at that once they pass the law the Central govt will just block it like it has done the Swaraaj bill and many others. Hope you see the point here. Im prefer a transparent democracy, leaders working for people and not pretending like some big statesman when the reality of their incompetence is all over youtube. When has Modi come down and answered tough questions? Kejriwal does it every month. Hell he does google hangouts and is more accessible than any other politician. And modi? He didn't even do it during elections. Looking at those interviews during elections was hilarious. The recent one with Arnab too. God so much fun his farces are to watch.
Party Monger
Skilled
Do you want me to make a list of what has been alleged on Modi and shah? It would be a far more entertaining and a lot more believable read than the sadness that you posted.Someone from AAP has claimed death threat from AK himself
http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Fac...-sacked-AAP-minister/articleshow/53437702.cms
I think AK should end this entertainment show for his own good , take up a port folio in Delhi govt and ensure much better results. He should work towards a alternative politics (non cong, non bjp) which we all expect him to deliver, not the skull cap politics or reservation politics - there are 20 other parties doing this currently. People expect a behavioral integrity from their leader along with work ethics (Not only in India, everywhere else too - Bill & Monica you're aware of), and show them that you have it in you ; then no need to invest in PR - you'll be automatically voted up. I think he is currently not being innovative enough in his approach.
No it doest justify anythign that Keriwal does, but i'd be glad if you call Modi a dramebaaz too like you call Kejriwal. But wait you wont cause you dont want to be on the bad side of the Fuheur else you might meet the same fate that Hiren Pandya did. Shot in his balls. Poor guy. But then again, live in your fairy land when Mudi uncle is Cinderella and can do no harm.
sharktale1212
Skilled
I will keep this short lest I develop carpal tunnel trying to clarify every point and really my YT playlist is empty.I respect your opinion mate, you have probably thought over it a lot more than most others posting here, So while I wait for Final cut to render a video, let me humour you.
1) Nationalism - There was a time in India, after independence, when just waving a flag and shouting nationalistic praises was the lowest form of national duty. The sense was that any one can raise a flag and wave it, if you really love your nation, stop talking about it and actually do soemthing to make it proud, to make it better.
Nationalism in this context is not service to the nation, its service to the BJP. An actor criticizes the govt indirectly, and they use nationalism to silence him. You cannon criticize the BJP else they will use nationalism against you. Where was their nationalism while criticizing Congress, or India under congress? Or did Modi win one day and suddenly India became great?
The rhetoric in the RNC and DNC is mostly cause of Trump's "make America great again". Its not being used to silece critics. The best answer to criticism is an explanation or a debate but it definitely very lame to question someone's love for their nation cause their criticism made you uncomfortable.
Nationalism is a beast. Its an empty vessel that is used to make a lot of noise to no end. Want to serve you country then stop the lip service and show real results.
2) Bernie /Clinton - Indian politics and AMerican politics are very different. Bernie and Clinton have a lot more in common than bernie and Trump. Bernie also knows he wont make it anywhere without the DNC nomination, no matter how great his ideals. Whereas everyone here in India knows BJP = Congress + better PR machinery. There is literally nothing else to it. The sooner they die the better. I dont just want AAP, I'd like a lot more newer and better parties that aren't full of these stupid ****s. So when you know that, there's no point in supporting another evil with a better PR machinery. Look at their paid dogs on social media abusing women with the worst language possible. BJP has found this unique way where they abuse detractors with the worst abuses and then say "people call him/her this" so dont believe them. Its the Donald Trump equivalent of "A lot of people are saying", "A lot of people have observed", "Im not saying but this is what a lot of people say"
3) I didnt contradict myself. Kejriwal is a independent person. He is literally giving Modi his own medicine. Modi like him was never on good term with the central govt and kept doing what you call drama. All im saying is, why the hypocrisy of responding to the same things in differently?
Hope you see the point here. Im prefer a transparent democracy, leaders working for people and not pretending like some big statesman when the reality of their incompetence is all over youtube. When has Modi come down and answered tough questions? Kejriwal does it every month. Hell he does google hangouts and is more accessible than any other politician. And modi? He didn't even do it during elections. Looking at those interviews during elections was hilarious. The recent one with Arnab too. God so much fun his farces are to watch.
First thanks for respecting my opinion otherwise someone reading your response would feel that I supported Modi/BJP. I dint. The very first line I imply Modi is a politician and whatever he says cannot be taken at face value. Neither can CCTV claims of AAP. Yes we can all talk about how it was a 5yr plan, passing a bill etc etc. Yes I did say Kejriwal was unfit but I fail to see how that equates to "Modi is better".
Nationalism - How does anyone asking x,y,z to leave a country be called nationalism? You can call it stupid, yes. But nationalism? How? I would certainly like a dictionary which colloquies nationalism to this. Its like the word secularism we like to use in India a lot but if we were to implement its true meaning many politicians would be out of their jobs.
There are two roles in a democracy - activist and politician.
An activist is someone who tries to keep the government honest. He is someone who rallies people to get behind an issue. He agitates on an issue via sit-ins, PILs etc. He can also be an expert on the said issue. He has an agenda, not in the bad sense, and a fixed view. He can go years trying to affect change on a particular issue.
A politician on the other hand is someone who uses "diplomacy". He has to be quick on his feet and ready to work even on reduced agenda and change his view. This is not because he has to do a "U Turn" or play "dirty" politics. It is because his job is to get things done even if it means a compromise because no decision can make everyone happy. Public might bash him for raising taxes saying he is trying to loot people. But if he doesn't raise taxes sovereign investors and rating agencies will bash him for running a leaky ship saying he cannot manage finances of his country. This even though he might have promised free food and extolled about lower taxes in his election pitch.
Yes, there is corruption. This is as much true for a politician pocketing and misusing money as it is for an activist taking bribes and misleading people.
Problem arises when roles are changed.
When a politician becomes an activist, he might be doing it for himself or even be someone who throws in the towel too early and not pressing a particular issue.
In comparison, when an activist becomes a politician he might not be ready to work through compromises. He resolves everything by doing - my way or the highway. His way of doing always comes down to activist of taking everything to public.
Yes, Najeeb Gunj and Modi might be making life hard for Kejriwal. Thats what a central government does when they are not on the same page as you. Kejriwal has been unable to handle them diplomatically. He rather thinks fighting is the best solution. He is still stuck in the activist mode. Do note, this doesn't mean Modi is a better politician. It just means Kejriwal is not a good one.
And when Kejriwal starts doing x in year y has done this so why not us, one has to wonder - If he thinks he is better than every other politician, why does he has to justify his actions using examples of those lowly politicians.
All being said, this has turned into a long one. My physiotherapist just asked me to take time off as I am worsening my carpal tunnel.
Party Monger
Skilled
Ah I see your point of view now. In a perfect democracy where politicians are in touch with the grassroot needs of the people, that would fit very well. But we have problems in India that can be solved in 10 minutes (ofcourse its a process and i'm talking about starting it) by someone who is educated and follows a scientific approach. So here is where the difference comes in. Its great to have two different roles, each neatly carved his niche. BUT, unfortunately, things like education, sanitation are very easily sorted, provided the people who are in the job apply their heads. And here is were the problem comes in. Modi and company are not invested in the issues, while Kejriwal is. He is there asking people to vote so that he can solve their problems. There is a very simple quid pro quo. And honestly I think the whole bit about diplomacy and its importance comes further down the line and even then i think its overrated when your country is dealing with sever issues for decades and diplomacy has found no solutions. And even then your reply assumes that a person cannot learn to be diplomatic or that a person cant chose to be diplomatic with some and confrontational with others based on his priority or strategy. Or that one cannot learn to be diplomatic if he is not.
AK has been very diplomatic. You just dont see it on the breaking news. They have handled RSS etc spectacularly. To the point where when genuine RRS members (not the top leadership that has weird agendas but the people that want the nation to be better off), when they get disenchanted they take the direction of AAP. Infact Modi has to meet RSS leaders and personally request that they dont canvas for AAP. Not shitting, it actually happened. AAP has managed to not come across as anti-hindu while coming across as pro minority rights too. And thats diplomacy at its finest. They have a simple idea, we will help those that are victims of hate but we will not divide on the basis of caste, religion etc. and that exactly is the need of the hour. Dont their message can get any simpler.
Things in Delhi even with so much interference are changing so quickly its amazing to watch. Whether you feel the change or not depends on how much you interact with the thigns where changes have come. You hate the govt departments for corruption or delays? They've stamped down on corruption best they could using internal machinery. They've brought a law that makes the officials do the work in a pre determined time else they pay a fine (stuck with LG though). Problem with schools looting children, short term fee limitation till they bring govt schools to the mark of private schools or better and then free competition. Auditing power companies! What do they have to hide if they are pricing things genuinely? Haha double entries for expenses in thousands of crores to inflate expenses!
Honestly while your conventional politician/activist separation is great for perfect democracies, AAP is what you need in India cause the politicians have failed us spectacularly! Congress said Gareebi hatao and has managed to keep us Gareeb till date. BJP said Achhe din aane wale hai, India Shining, Development and the growth figures are actually going in the other direction. Politicians like Modi have kept themselves before developments like GST which can help india in the long run, and when he came into power taken U-turns. Hell he said Minimum governance, and simplification for businesses. Where they had some 3-4 forms for company registration, he made one form and those 3-4 forms are sections of the same form.
Its not even funny how the 2014 election promises have turned out to be a joke.The politicians have shown that they are just self serving and will take their interest or RSS interest or the interest of whichever crony Capitalist pays them more, over any one else's. I don't expect AK to be 100% poster boy of democracy. If he can solve 70% of the problems that India has I'm happy, cause these politicians dont give a flying fcuk about whether the people live or die, their priority are the headlines. I believe AAP will be able to turn the country around spectacularly, even if you take this drama or whatever as a personality trait instead of reaction.
Hell yeah we need an activist in the govt when its failing to meet even 1% of what the country expects from them. Finally we'll have sane people that will India first and not their agenda.
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As for fighting the Central Govt, you can say im making excuses for Kejriwal, but hear me out.
You dont get co-operation by asking for it. You have to trade something for it. Now what does Kejriwal have to trade for Central government's cooperation? Almost nothing that he can compromise on. If he doesnt criticize the BJP and show them for who they are, what is the point of him being in politics? If he doesnt spread his party across states, which the BJP is shit scared of, what is the point? I know you'll argue that a skilled politician would have found a way. But honestly, Im happy that AAP hasnt found a single common ground with congress and BJP. I hope they criticize them everyday and lay their shit jumlas bare for everyone to watch. I hope that by the time BJP is done in the central govt, people should mock them with the posters they made in 2014 for the campaign. Cause that's what the reality is. You were told there will be monumental change, and you arent even getting incremental change. Hell some would argue that the situation is worse than when congress was there.
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there're misconceptions regards GST here...support and opposition to/for any bill is not just in name only. the names remain the same, however the contents undergo changes over a period of time (eg.s being of the Insurance Regulatory Bill, LAB, etc). regards GST, the earlier opposition during the UPA reign was not just from Guj. alone, but also from some other BJP-ruled as well as non-BJP ruled (including congress) states. this opposition was due to certain provisions/reasons, and the opposing states/govt.s were unanimous in their concerns. these concerns were taken care of after reaching a consensus about/within 10 months after NDA-II came to power (alongwith the addition of a 'bonus' provision).
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lets just play our part. Let us vow we will not dump plastic and other waste in drains. Let us vow we will not steer our cars and two wheelers into every open space we notice just to save a few minutes, the government might not be doing their part, lets do ours
as well as gently remind and insist others too for that, and request them to spread the word and (thus) awareness and inspire/persuade further people too. I write this as I personally do this with others at times and have received favourable responses from people. have sort of vowed to myself to do more and regularly as and when/wherever reqd or needed, as/more like one's normal duty.
(great and a very pertinent post BTW!!!)
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