Experiencing call drops on Jio? Blame it on AVOID cartel; COAI vs JIO fight intensifies!

blr_p

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Jio is still in test mode and they are load testing the network interconnects. That is why the free packs so everybody jumps in and they get to do their test. You are all beta testers.

The question is how long will the good times last. Right now every one thinks Jio is best. heh, tell me how happy you are a year after their service launches, i said service not test. How competitive the rates will be.

An extra big player is good news but it requires corresponding spectrum availability too. This is being offered in tranches by the govt who hope to net $80 billion once the sales are over. Now telcos have to get that money back. When they take out such enormous mortgages to provide a service.
 

swatkats

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Jio is launching on 28th December!
They're likely to submit tariff plans to TRAI 90Days before launch.(ET NOW)

Best thing To do for Jio as of now.. with congested networks it'll be a bad commercial start with Cartel troubling them!
 

bigbyte

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The question is how long will the good times last. Right now every one thinks Jio is best. heh, tell me how happy you are a year after their service launches, i said service not test.
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True. Internet speed specially on band 5 hasl come down a lot. On their main capacity band ( band 40) also it has dropped though it is still fastest.
 

blr_p

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Jio is launching on 28th December!
They're likely to submit tariff plans to TRAI 90Days before launch.(ET NOW)

Best thing To do for Jio as of now.. with congested networks it'll be a bad commercial start with Cartel troubling them!
Problem of congested networks is the same as problem of power delivery, insufficient to meet demand. In the case of power people don't want pollution or radiation, in terms of spectrum it is cost.

They are auctioning 3 digit frequencies for a kings ransom. So operators will get smaller slices otherwise its not cost effective. smaller slices means slower speeds but it means a signal that can penetrate 2g like which i'm all for.

No need for 20Mbs speeds just give me a reliable 3-6Mbs with a signal thats in the low 90 dbM on 4G.[DOUBLEPOST=1471707871][/DOUBLEPOST]
True. Internet speed specially on band 5 hasl come down a lot. On their main capacity band ( band 40) also it has dropped though it is still fastest.
From what i undrstand jio operates 4G on 3 bands

band 5 - 850Mhz this will be a 5Mhz lot so slower speed Reach is best.
band 3 - 1800 Mhz, should be 10Mhz (don't know though) so faster
band 40 - 2300 Mhz same as last.

Are you able to verify what band you get jio on ? easier on a sammy than other devices.
 
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pratikb

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Easier on iPhone as well. I get 0.5--1.5 on band 3
3-4 Mbps on band 5
 

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onlyravi

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Any idea how I can check the bands on OneplusOne.
I agree with @blr_p Once the services are launched people wont be some kind and tolerating to call drops and congestion. Now since its free everyone is gaga....
I have noticed that in rural areas and highways the speeds are good. (30-50mbps)
In city its mostly below 20mbps.
 

pratikb

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yesterday, I was talking on jio VoLTE call and it was astonishing to continue call in 7 storied building lift.my call continued as it is from basement parking till 7th floor with not even one percent drop in quality.
while airtel struggles on windows of the building.

what do we blame here?
poor spectrum of airtel or poor management of airtel?
 

blr_p

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what do we blame here?
poor spectrum of airtel or poor management of airtel?
Just poor spectrum. when i was reading replies from the operators at trai's site. Airtel's lawyer said in India in any city there are at least 5- 7 providers. Whereas abroad the figure tends to be 3-5. So each operators slice of spetrum is less and on top of that they oversell. So spectrum like power is in short supply. It's in short supply because its auctioned by the govt at very high prices which takes operators years to pay pack.

How much money they get out of people ? India is 96% prepaid and only 4% postpaid. The figures are opposite in other countries. Us is 70% contracts and remainder contract free. UK, Germany are 50-50.

This is why i had no problem with so called 2 g scam. What did the govt do, sell low, so it would spread and be affordable. Instead what happened, we got some political tamasha and accusations of corruption. And people start saying govt is losing out and they should charge more. As raja said in ten years 2g spread right across the country.

What helps with 2G is its at 900Mhz which has good range and penetrates very well so fewer towers required, which means less costs for diesel backup. Not so with 3G which is at 2100Mhz or 4G at 2300Mhz. Those frequencies carry more data but require many more towers so more costs.
 
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vivek.krishnan

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Just poor spectrum. when i was reading replies from the operators at trai's site. Airtel's lawyer said in India in any city there are at least 5- 7 providers. Whereas abroad the figure tends to be 3-5. So each operators slice of spetrum is less and on top of that they oversell. So spectrum like power is in short supply. It's in short supply because its auctioned by the govt at very high prices which takes operators years to pay pack.

How much money they get out of people ? India is 96% prepaid and only 4% postpaid. The figures are opposite in other countries. Us is 70% contracts and remainder contract free. UK, Germany are 50-50.

This is why i had no problem with so called 2 g scam. What did the govt do, sell low, so it would spread and be affordable. Instead what happened, we got some political tamasha and accusations of corruption. And people start saying govt is losing out and they should charge more. As raja said in ten years 2g spread right across the country.

What helps with 2G is its at 900Mhz which has good range and penetrates very well so fewer towers required, which means less costs for diesel backup. Not so with 3G which is at 2100Mhz or 4G at 2300Mhz. Those frequencies carry more data but require many more towers so more costs.
I dont think spectrum cost is responsible for this. Here, the operators should have started mini cell operations quite sometime back. I would put it for short thinking only.

Spectrum has no relation to coverage, if properly deployed. Oversubscription figures should be released by the operators.

Another aspect is that most towers are illegal, and radiation scares mean even lesser towers.

Spectrum and speed are proportional.

As for India to other countries, we are a price sensitive nation. In the US, the operators are entrenched, and people will continue to pay $$$.
 

blr_p

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Any idea how I can check the bands on OneplusOne.
1+ works with airtel 4g so can get band 40 and i think band 3 too at 1800mhz.

Should be able to get data. No confirmation though. Jio insists on volte capable devices which is uneccesary if you want data and have dual sim.

I agree with @blr_p Once the services are launched people wont be some kind and tolerating to call drops and congestion. Now since its free everyone is gaga....
I have noticed that in rural areas and highways the speeds are good. (30-50mbps)
In city its mostly below 20mbps.
here is a comparison in bangalore



Download. Airtel leads vodafone 6-4 and curiously beats jio in whitefield. more techies over there :D

What isn't mentioned here is the ping times, if you notice in the video airtel's ping times are the best.

when airtel launched 4g end 2014, people were posting 20-30mbs download speeds. Looking at the graph above we can see a reduction to half those rates. This is what happens when a network goes live and stays live a couple of years later.

people are making a big deal of jio's speeds but its just a beta network, not completely open yet. let's see couple of years later.


Upload. Airtel seems capped here. Vodafone leads jio 6-4. Don't know why vodafone's uploads are so good but when combined with dowloads make them more consistent and faster than airtel which comes as a surprise to me.

Bear in mind all these tests were done in the open on the street. best possible reception, once you go inside walls will decrease those speeds across the board.

Still, one more big player is good as it will reduce the load on the two big players here. There is talk the ambanis will merge, remains to be sen. jio isn't even in the top 10. Then there is talk that after the ambanis get together they will merge with aircel. if that happens jio becomes #2 and on par with vodafone in the country.
 
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blr_p

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I dont think spectrum cost is responsible for this. Here, the operators should have started mini cell operations quite sometime back. I would put it for short thinking only.
lease cost is high then asking cost will be too or take longer to amortise.

Spectrum has no relation to coverage, if properly deployed. Oversubscription figures should be released by the operators.

Another aspect is that most towers are illegal, and radiation scares mean even lesser towers.

Spectrum and speed are proportional.
Spectrum in what frequency band is the question. Lower frequencies have more range and require fewer towers for the same coverage. But 3 digit frquencies are beach front property, the most expensive. So they only get 5Mhz slots.

instead we had 2300Mhz which has shorter range and does not penetrate well requiring more towers which as you said face opposition. i don't know about illegal, rents are paid if towers are on other properties. But its a struggle to maintain them, a never ending one. So its no surprise that call connection quality is going to be variable instead of consistent over time.

As for India to other countries, we are a price sensitive nation. In the US, the operators are entrenched, and people will continue to pay $$$.
All the more important not to charge as high as other countries to lease spectrum then isn't it. Sept 29 is when the big auction begins, govt hopes to net $80 billion, might be overly optimistic.
 
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blr_p

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Aircel already in talks with Rcom and tata also would soon be in talks to sell out.
Merger happening is Mts Rcom and Aircel.[DOUBLEPOST=1472202950][/DOUBLEPOST]http://telecom.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/rcom-aircel-merger-may-conclude-next-week-report/53312980
ok so its rcom+aircel with possibly mts then we can talk about whether jio gets in or not. In any case rcom is migrating their cdma customers to jio so it looks possible. if this merger comes together we get fewer operators in circles with more spectrum to play with. better services and hopefully better competition. it will force others to merge too. Result is fewer operators with more spectrum instead of many operators with little spectrum.

How it all shakes out remains to be seen. It will take time for the effects to show.

RCom-Aircel-MTS combined will hold around 19% of the total spectrum in the country across of the 4G bands of 800 Mhz and 1800 Mhz and 3G bands of 2100 Mhz and 900 Mhz. It will have around a 180 million subscribers
What this does is now each ones spectrum gets pooled together so there is more spectrum. of course that spectrum comes with existing customers too. But now efficiencies of scale are possible and management is easier.

RCom and Aircel will each transfer Rs 14,000 crore of their debt into the merged entity. RCom has a gross debt of Rs 42,651 crore while it is Rs 23,436 crore for Aircel.
That's the thing with these telcos, forever tens of thousands of crores in debt.
 

onlyravi

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@blr_p I have a JIO my fi device. I logged on to the device page and checked the WAN settings tab . It shows the band I am currently connected to.
Also it supports band 3, band and band 40.
Thanks.
 

pratikb

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Forever load of debt is to show how they are in bad financial states and if you see other telecoms like Airtel and Vodafone. They are making huge profits.

And more than that combines entity can't hold more than 25% of that circle total spectrum.

They would have to return some extra spectrum.
Mts Rcom is stuck in legal issue which is expected to be solved in month or so.

Mts is already putting pressure through Govt channels.[DOUBLEPOST=1472206586][/DOUBLEPOST]
@blr_p I have a JIO my fi device. I logged on to the device page and checked the WAN settings tab . It shows the band I am currently connected to.
Also it supports band 3, band and band 40.
Thanks.
It's bound to support all three bands. No surprises their.[DOUBLEPOST=1472206662][/DOUBLEPOST]Here is Vodafone making profit.

http://forbesindia.com/article/special/vodafone-india-operating-profit-up-4.1-in-fy16/43253/1

This is to prepare market for their IPO next year.
 

vivek.krishnan

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lease cost is high then asking cost will be too or take longer to amortise.


It does, lower frequencies have much more coverage and decrease the number of towers. But 3 digit frquencies are beach front property, the most expensive. So they only get 5Mhz slots.

instead we had 2300Mhz which has shorter range and does not penetrate well requiring more towers which as you said face opposition. i don't know about illegal, rents are paid if towers are on other properties.


All the more important not to charge as high as other countries to lease spectrum then isn't it.
So, Jio is using 2300 Mhz spectrum, and I am getting no call drops. But If I use airtel or vodafone, I get call drops in lift. So, 900/1800 Mhz frequency bands are poorer than 2300 Mhz band?

Coming to pricing, do you think that if we gave away spectrum cheaper, it will lead to cheaper pricing? I think not. Competition does this. All telecom operators are for profit only. Its just that they will be able to fill their coffers quickly.
 
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pratikb

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Totally agree with Vivek.
I am yet to get single call drop on jio. I am using it since 7 days and pleased so far.
If they continue to provide same voice quality post commercial launch,I won't mind getting their services for entire family.[DOUBLEPOST=1472206945][/DOUBLEPOST]It's poor lazy management of network by Airtel. Who is happy in outsourcing the network management to third party and bargaining for more margins

Results are for all of us to see.

Poor network quality and higher pricing.
 

vivek.krishnan

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And there is a small miscommunication

For me, spectrum is bandwidth. More bandwidth, more speed.

For you, spectrum is frequency and bandwidth, which means coverage and bandwidth.

You can make a comparison with WiFi. We have 11 WiFi channels. If all use the same channel, it will lead to interference and noise. So, proper allocation has to be done.

Coming to 2300 vs 800 (say) I am pretty sure that the bandwidth will be lower in the lower channels.

It will be a tradefoff between coverage and speed. Ideally for metros, we should have low power microcells with 2300 Mhz bandwidth.[DOUBLEPOST=1472210083][/DOUBLEPOST]Coming to debt, All companies will show the huge amount of debt, as they will take huge loans for the same. The key point to look at is whether the company is profitable or not, and able to pay off their debts. And I suspect that the Airtel-Vodafone-Idea-Reliance combine can easily do this.

And finally, coming to Jio, they are using IPv6 while the others have still not turned it on. bout time!
 
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