Indian BLACK MONEY: 1.45 Trillion USD (1450 Billion USD / 65,25,000 Crores INR)

Satan

Adept
Indian BLACK MONEY: 1.45 Trillion USD (1450 Billion USD / 65,25,000 Crores INR)

While most of us already know about this, what baffles me the most is how our current government is able to pull the wool over our eyes on an issue of this magnitude and scale? How is it possible that a country of 1.2 billion people has no say in bringing to justice the people behind the world's largest accumulation of illegal monetary reserves? Is this really a democracy anymore?

I urge you to read this:

WHAT WE are all told about the secrecy practiced by Swiss banks is only the partial truth. James Nason, the Head of the Swiss Banks Association, categorically said, “I think there is a lot of misunderstanding. If a foreign country is conducting a criminal investigation and needs access to Swiss Bank clients’ detail, it simply has to file an official request for international judicial assistance with the Swiss authorities.” He dismissed allegations about Swiss banks’ absolute secrecy saying, “If the investigating magistrate or the Swiss attorney general comes into your bank wanting information in connection with the crime, banking secrecy simply disappears.”

This puts back the ball in the court of the government which has been claiming now that they will have to wait for another nine months till the new information sharing treaty is ratified by the Swiss Parliament by October. The government had apparently approached Switzerland first in April 2009, for renegotiating the agreement of double taxation avoidance and seeking access to bank details.

It is a case in point that when United States wanted to know the name of tax evaders, it compelled the bank UBS (Union Bank of Switzerland) to reveal the names of tax evaders by threatening to sue it. The Swiss authorities made amends in their bank laws to furnish data. But such political will is not seen in our country, where our prime minister in a bid to safeguard corporate interests, says that the information can’t be made public due to international treaty obligations and that there is no instant solution for bringing back the stashed black money.

It is only shameful then that India has not yet ratified the UN convention against corruption, something done by even Pakistan and Bangladesh as early as 2007. It is one of the few 22 countries out of 148 signatories, which has not yet ratified it. Bharatiya Janata Party vice-president Shanta Kumar informs that Article 51 to 54 of the Convention binds all the member countries to share any information about any illegal amount stored or transacted. This convention is legally binding on Switzerland which has also ratified the Convention. Many countries have availed this provision to retrieve the laundered black money. India too can, and it should.

After all India is the top most country in the world with almost 1,456 billion dollar in Swiss banks (USD 1.4 trillion), followed by Russia 470 billion dollar, the UK 390 billion dollar, Ukraine 100 billion dollar and China, with 96 billion dollar. According to the data provided by the Swiss Bank itself, India has more black money than rest of the world combined.

The usually sober Supreme Court judges were also infuriated and asked, “How many zeros are there in that?” The Court has now asked the government, “What is the source of this black money, which has been stashed away in foreign banks? Is it arms deal, drug peddling or smuggling?"

We all need to know, but there is no right to information. A Right To Information applicant, Pramod Chawla knocked doors of the Central Information Commissioner to get a reply from Ministry of External Affairs asking the information of accounts provided to the government by banks in Switzerland and Liechtenstein, (a tiny country between Switzerland and Austria, another popular low-tax haven). But he got no response.

The government didn’t divulge names even to the Supreme Court blaming some agreement with the government of Germany! This makes it very clear that the government is only making lame excuses. The question is then that should the common be fooled by these lame excuses? And if not, what is the other option?

Source

Let me put those numbers in perspective for you

India's GDP (as of 2009): USD 1.31 - 2.55 Trillion
India's National Debt: 78% of GDP (One of the highest in the world. Through the recession, USA had a national debt of only 60% of it's GDP)
Total Gold Bullion in The Federal Reserve Bank of New York (World's Largest Gold Bullion Repository): USD 270 Billion
Total Gold Bullion in United States Bullion Depository (Fort Knox): USD 173 Billion
Total wealth of all the American Billionaires (403): USD 1.51 Trillion

List of most prominent non-Forbes Billionaires
Guess whose name features most prominently amongst Drug lords, Dictators, Arm Merchants and Crime Syndicate Bosses?

Why, it's our own future Prime Minister, the son of our nation as he is touted, Rahul Gandhi.
While the 1.45 Trillion in question is only from various Swiss Banks and Banks in Liechtenstein, there are almost 70 other tax havens around the world that people like you and me haven't even heard of. Our imagination couldn't possibly get around everything that is out there.

Isn't there anything we can do?

I'd like for this to be a discussion on what we as Indian Citizens can do to atleast put a dent in the criminal activities of the people hired to serve and protect us.

I know there are several members here at TE that are lawyers by day. How can we use RTI or any other provision in the constitution to get the information we need to fight corruption? Is lack of motivation and lack of funds the only reason we cannot expose these crooks and bring them to justice?

Pour in your thoughts on how you think we can fight the big evil. REQUEST YOU ALL TO READ POST #12
 
listen to Subramanian Swamy's speeches in youtube where he gives all details about the nehru family. total sadness :( so many are raping and pimping our motherland and we are helpless.

like jp narayanan of lok satta party says, we should first implement the proportional representation system in elections.

btw I came across this blog and am totally speechless India | India is being manipulated into losing her Sovereignty.The Future of Common Indians is very DARK,as the Indian Democratic Republic is being turned into an Unconstitutional Oligarchy.PPP,Divestment,Privatization,Destroying Agriculture and "Cul

_
 
This is disheartening at the very least. So much corruption, the politicians are forgetting that they can not take their money to their graves.

I dunno if you'll know this, but Pranab Mukherjee's son is also entering Politics, even after being well educated and having a good job (he was the head of SAIL). What is he coming to do in Politics? Mint money of-course.
 
Is this money earned in India and then moved out without paying taxes locally? Somehow Im never able to understand/believe the kinda of numbers posted.

2G Scam : 1.76L crores. Who has this money now? Or did someone pull it out of thin air?
 
Our nation's politicians are so shameless they would make up ridiculous stories about these facts saying they are ludicrous. This massive amount could be used to help the poor, setup much needed infrastructure, modernize the armed forces, pay the outstanding World bank debt. The government here works against the people. This is probably the last nail in the coffin for Congress. They will be booted out in the next general elections unless they use their expertise to buy the election commission and rig the elections in their favour.
 
So in year 2010~2011.. i been hearing abt over 200 Lac Crore rupees being siphoned off this country.

Do no one give a **** anymore?

Why the hell are we voting for these donkeys to be in govt again?

And above all the stupidest dumbest asses of the world, the common people of india, dont care?

I am surprised that media is following the hype story after hype.

where did the CWG scam go?. All those money is with the scamsters? govt is ok?

No matter how much i rant, how can a guy, any guy, change anything. I have my own shit to take care of. :( :( :(

The biggest concerns of us is how to get that giant ass TV or how to get a GB/s internet without

any FUP or to get that new gadget. simple times we live in.
 
There are various sectors which indirectly or directly benefit the government (ruling) by turning a blind eye on Them.
Poor internet speed with fup is a scam where even nations like pakistan has cheaper and faster internet access Then ours.
Every property deals undertaken accepts money in as high as 40% in cash i.e. Black money.
You might have heard many instances of political favours been done to various firms because they fund their parties with that black money.
For many parties this black money is the sole source of income.
When you had heard the bofors scandal the opposition party did not take a tough stand on the accused because they were financed by the hindujas who too acted as arbitrator in the deal.
So all in all unless there is a revolt against the system nothing can be done to what currently is going on.
But as a start we should get the voting percentage as high as 90% to see any fear among the political parties.
 
GDP vs National Debt by Country -

Seems India's not the only one with huge national debts.

What pains me is are there no good people in Indian politics anymore? Everyone seems to be interested only in filling his personal treasury for the next 50-100 generations of his family.

Its like people have no choice in voting. Every party now is most probably 100% full of such money leeches.

So what happens if people start to act like the politicians - i.e. if people do not pay any for anything, steal, etc. No more good times for India I suppose.

We are already half way in to the ditch. Just the other half is left - where people start killing, looting, maiming and do all sorts of bad things to others for the sake of greed.
 
The answers to Op's questions are very simple, only if one is genuinely interested in finding the solution in the first place, and that is the case with most of the other things that plague our lives.

edit: Asking questions is the first step through, but not the last hehe
 
Every Indian citizen feels exactly the same way as some of you have pointed out... Helpless. What is the common man to do?

1) Elections
No matter who we elect, one thing we can all be certain of is that they are crooks and that they are out to make as much money as they possibly can within their terms in office.

In a hypothetical situation, if we ever have a party with good morales that are backed by good leaders, we can't win, because all the corrupt groups will band together in a coalition.

This is why I asked earlier on if we are truly in a democratic country anymore? We no longer have power over anything. Even if a political party acquires clear majority, the rest of the crooks will band together by buying each others loyalties through huge sums of money and render our choice moot.

2) The Regulators and Enforcers
The very people that are meant to protect us and protect the country are either powerless or in cahoots with the big guns. At every step of the way we have wayward government officials acting and working against the people of India. How do we combat the enforcers?
 
Dudes, lets also keep in mind that this 1.45 Trillion USD is just in swiss banks, just imagine the money in other countries and tax havens like Cayman islands, Monaco etc.. and this 1.45 trillion exclude their illegal cash, property and business's in India + their expenses in india on imported and indian whores, imfl and fl, private plane charter's, living in 5 star hotels (SM Krishna), luxury cars and millions of other things etc...edit: how could I forget.. the legendary indian big fat weddings of politicians and cirrupt businessmen, the perfect opoortunity for them to spend black money and for many to receive and also giving away colour TV's, cycles, etc.. like kings of the yesteryears hehe

And also this goes on in front of our eyes..
 
I'm sure many of you are aware of this. Recently a Bangalorean decided to use his rights as a citizen and invoked the RTI in acquiring detailed documentation regarding the mis-doings of the CM of Karnataka. It obviously took a lot of work and a lot of time (not to mention other resources like money), but he came through single handedly. An entire case has been built based on the findings of this man ato expose the corrupt CM.

How many of us would do that? Honestly, who has the time? We all have fully rounded off lives with little or no time for our own loved ones, let alone enough time to fight a corrupt government. Even if we wanted to, who would be willing to dedicate time, resources & fight red tape and bureaucracy at every step in a futile attempt to bring justice and fight a corrupt government?

It's just too much work for one or 10 or even a 100 people. Fighting corruption, especially in a country like India is a full time job. Even with all that effort you might not see any results. Let's not even talk about anything less than full time. Whose going to feed you and your family while you are out saving this country from corruption?

Each and every one of us echoes the same thoughts. Even if we could, who cares anymore? Talking about corruption is just something to fill in the silence at the dinner table. Most of us city folk are pretty well to do. As long as we get our 3 square meals a day, a roof over our heads and some entertainment, we are happy. This is just like worrying about the environment. It's never going to bad enough in our lifetime that it's going to affect us drastically.

We are all the same and we're not going to change overnight. The reason I bring this up is because it's easier for us to spend money towards a cause than to be actively involved in the cause itself. I've been pondering over something for the last few years. Here it goes.

What if the people of India contribute towards an Anti-Corruption Cell? We bring in the best people from all walks of life. People like you and me, people like Narayan Murthy, Ratan Tata, N. Venkatachala, Dr. Abdul Kalam; people that stand for something more than themselves. We get some of the largest IT firms and other reputable companies and industries to fund this in addition to people funding the effort.

The goal of this organisation is to fight corruption. How is it different from every other corruption cell out there today?

The difference is that it is directly funded by the people of India. This organisation will not be answerable to any ruling government. It directly answers to the people.

The organisation will employ the services of some the best law firms in India and abroad (if it's funded well enough) and their primary goal will be to target a few public servants at a time and research into their frauds and misdoings without the aid of any government agencies.

There is obviously enough proof and information out there to prove most of these guys, if not all, guilty. Every crime leaves a trace behind and when such large sums of money are involved, there are multiple trails. Your average citizen does not have the resources to track it all, but to a law firm with an army of paralegals and researchers, it's a piece of cake.

This information can then be used to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. The key is to make sure this organisation is funded to the teeth. If multi-national companies can run their multi-billion dollar organisations with the tightest security ensuring complete transparency, I don't see any reason why this can't be handled in the same fashion.


I'd love your inputs on the feasibility of something like this.
 
NinByChoice said:
Is this money earned in India and then moved out without paying taxes locally? Somehow Im never able to understand/believe the kinda of numbers posted.

2G Scam : 1.76L crores. Who has this money now? Or did someone pull it out of thin air?
the amount 1.76LC amount is the very conservative estimated loss to the country because of not auctioning the 2G spectrum and just selling it for 3650C (calculated using various parameters by the CAG - available in its report) for a comparison the 3G auction which has a less market base fetched 1.8LC. the actual bribe money is conservatively estimated to be around 70000 crores after taking into account the stake sale of the suspected companies and other benefits. raja's share is estimated to be around 6000 crores. all my info is from news articles in TOI and Indian express.

_
 
@satan

Mate. God knows i am with you on this 100%.

But please, be realistic. We live in a dump-rat-hole of a country. we do.

Dont mistake that i dont love my country, I do very much. But democracy destroyed this country.

No one is answerable to no one. No one cares. every govt employee, bureaucrat knows that in 5 years everything will change.

Our country's is governed by religious/communal groups is one side and corruption on the other side. In the middle few normal folks

try to live hoping/praying they never come in contact with either one of the groups.
 
^^

I am not hiding anything. I do love this country. and i do hate that much the stuff going on around here. If you cant understand such things

maybe ur wasting ur time talking abt India itself.
 
Ok guys,

Given that this can be a volatile subject, I request all of you to not pass judgement or not make comments about each other personally. The whole point of this is to see if we can, as rational, well educated members of this community come up with a mock plan on how we could fight corruption in India.

@m-jeri... I completely understand your position. This isn't just an uphill task, it's an almost impossible task, but remember, I did say... almost impossible, not impossible ;)
 
Satan said:
What if the people of India contribute towards an Anti-Corruption Cell? We bring in the best people from all walks of life. People like you and me, people like Narayan Murthy, Ratan Tata, N. Venkatachala, Dr. Abdul Kalam; people that stand for something more than themselves. We get some of the largest IT firms and other reputable companies and industries to fund this in addition to people funding the effort.

The goal of this organisation is to fight corruption. How is it different from every other corruption cell out there today?

The difference is that it is directly funded by the people of India. This organisation will not be answerable to any ruling government. It directly answers to the people.

The organisation will employ the services of some the best law firms in India and abroad (if it's funded well enough) and their primary goal will be to target a few public servants at a time and research into their frauds and misdoings without the aid of any government agencies.

There is obviously enough proof and information out there to prove most of these guys, if not all, guilty. Every crime leaves a trace behind and when such large sums of money are involved, there are multiple trails. Your average citizen does not have the resources to track it all, but to a law firm with an army of paralegals and researchers, it's a piece of cake.

This information can then be used to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. The key is to make sure this organisation is funded to the teeth. If multi-national companies can run their multi-billion dollar organisations with the tightest security ensuring complete transparency, I don't see any reason why this can't be handled in the same fashion.


I'd love your inputs on the feasibility of something like this.
I'm actually pessimistic after reading this blue colored para. Why? Cause I've worked in both Indian managed IT companies as well as MNC's and the situation is no different. MNC's are run by top class B-grads and executives who lick their shoes. The more you butter some top guy the more your pay packet is. There is a good amount of politics involved in MNC's here since the people working there are usually like the smaller versions of our politicians. The Indian managed companies - the IT ones always try to maximize work load, ignore the workforce's woes, ask people to shut up after taking only the managers viewpoint and basically screw anyone in their employment if it suits them. Why would I want them to manage a state where they have access to thousands of crores of wealth? Looking at the huge amount of money involved, these guys who used to oppress their workforce will start oppressing the general public now.

Lets not talk about well funded lawyers - the amount of money these leeches would siphon off in the name of law would be equal to what the politicians are making now. And if you forgot, many multinational/ indian companies fund the govt or their opposition during elections. They are the govt's puppets mostly with the aim of taking land, water electricity and save tax to maximise their bank accounts. The products they dish out in substandard quality is just a by product.

Either way you go, you get fcuked up in this country. Make your own road and people laugh, point fingers at you or trip you. Worst would be, they might stop you from walking down your own path.
 
Even though if the money is recovered which is not possible, the politician will eat them again, common people will not get any benefits anyway.
 
Back
Top