Indian media’s obsession with China.

Ramadhir Singh

Wasseypur
Adept
Earlier it was one news channel, then it became 12x7 for news channels.
Now they have only two things to show, either showing teleshopping or it has to be something about China (occasionally Kim Jong).

But today, I was shocked Showing same china drama in history channel. Same scare tactics, which news channels trying to feed Indians.

Wondering how much money China has invested in indian media (or in BJP).
they started to change things the moment they came in power https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-by-six-times-report/articleshow/52418055.cms

Things are accelerating even today
https://www.cnbctv18.com/investing/...ia-doubled-investments-in-two-years-97041.htm
They are now allowed in our banking & investment as well
https://emergingtrendsadvisors.com/chinas-first-ever-india-dedicated-investment-fund/

We were suppose to boycott Chinese products but see the irony today, MI is India’s number one market, people buying products directly from China, Ali express, etc. china own indias biggest digital wallet (pay Tm).

India is china’s 12th largest importer. And now we are letting them open their factories in India, enslaving Indians. We suppose to “make in India” like Indian companies make all product and not letting our home open to other, enslaving us making money from us.

Is it the govt orders to channels to divert people’s attention from real issues as they don’t have anything to show? And brainwash Indian to “love” China ?

I just fail to understand what’s going on.
 
Let's just say we decided to call a truce (temporary?) some time last Oct. Both sides tone down the anti-other rhetoric. After the fun of last June, i got to hear 1 +1 should equal 11 and elephant and dragon must dance together. All sorts of theories. We are entering an era of uncertainty due to Trump. If China is facing pressure on trade, NK & maritime then isn't it better to get some breathing space with India. As it is we told them to get lost on their belt & road, they need us for it to be successful. We are partnering with the US on regional initiatives. Slowly a regional anti-China balance is being built. As far as Chinese investment goes its one way to reduce the trade deficit isn't it. Other is to increase our sales to China, something i'm crossing fingers Trump will pull off by opening up China. China runs unsustainable trade deficits with everyone, something has to give. Over the last decade we've given the Chinese half a trillion. The Americans do that annually in trade.

If according to him the world is exploiting US openness for long then opening up the rest of the world could be a good thing. By talking trade war he is trying to knock down trade barriers, that's his game, as counter intuitive as it sounds

Today India is a $50bn market for China, tomorrow it will be a $300 bn market to them. The same applies to us for sales there. The growth of global wealth is shifting to the east and there is nothing the west can do about it.

I'm a China hawk but i can't help think the greatest stupidity would be to pit 2.5bn people against each other. Therefore what are the two leaders who rank in the top 5 globally in terms of popularity actually doing about it. Unfortunately there isn't much they can do to resolve mutual political differences so there is management, manage those differences better without letting it get out of hand.

The India - China relationship could be the defining relationship of this century. How well or bad it becomes will have global repercussions
 
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More slave factories in India. Wages in China has risen a lot. Only place they can save money is in Asian countries or like India where the rules are lax and in favour of companies. China is looking at $200Bn in trade with India by 2020. Imagine that.

Personally I think making China our ally would be good for us. They will take care of Pakistan who does not have many friends in this side of the globe. Plus Indian politicians could probably learn a few things by the way their govt works.
 
Our plan since independence has been to get into bed with everybody but marry nobody

Modi is more interested in meeting China and its already more than dozen mettings the highest with any country in very short span. China will invest here but will also be behind their share in the ongoing brahmaputra valley project and siachin conflict. Aman ki shanti, truce and friendship etc is literally shit with Pakistan and China as they are proven backstabbers and will continue to do so till they get what they want.
 
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More slave factories in India. Wages in China has risen a lot. Only place they can save money is in Asian countries or like India where the rules are lax and in favour of companies. China is looking at $200Bn in trade with India by 2020. Imagine that.

India is one of the most anti-business countries. Modi has been trying to change that into more like china.

Personally I think making China our ally would be good for us. They will take care of Pakistan who does not have many friends in this side of the globe. Plus Indian politicians could probably learn a few things by the way their govt works.

China is not stupid. There is no such thing as an ally. They will keep feeding the internal fires as well as the hostility from neighboring countries while at the same time utilizing the local market. India is corrupt to the core and china can just make use of that to get what they want. They don't need to play allies.
 
Modi is more interested in meeting China and its already more than dozen mettings the highest with any country in very short span. China will invest here but will also be behind their share in the ongoing brahmaputra valley project and siachin conflict. Aman ki shanti, truce and friendship etc is literally shit with Pakistan and China as they are proven backstabbers and will continue to do so till they get what they want.
Just under a dozen which would make Xi the most frequently met leader by Modi.

We've not yet given up on China like we have Pakistan. To what extent and length China will go to protect Pakistan remains to be seen. So far they have been reliable.

It's not aman ki shanti, its a compartmentalised way of managing problems. If you notice we're not the only one who has a problem with China. Others do business and don't allow intractable political problems to interfere. eg. Taiwan, Vietnam, Japan. Also many eastern countries hate Japan because of WW2 but still have relations and trade with Japan. In India & pakistan for that matter unless border dispute is settled then nothing else is welcome. This is a British attitude of not giving the other one inch

Brahma putra is over blown, there were supposed to be many dams built but that project has become shelved in China. Here is the google earth coords of the point yarlung Tsangpo enters India. Follow the river north into China, how many dams you see there ? just one. It's run of the river. The Chinese have used desalination on the yangtze because it was quicker than that ambitious project to divert Yarlung tsangpo. Also brahmaputra is 80% rain fed after it enters India. The problem comes with natural dams which are created by earthquakes in Tibet and then another earthquake causes those natural dams to break. The Chinese can't do a damn thing about this but the result is a flood in Arunachal and in the opposite direction with the Sutlej. Happened in 2000. We make a big deal of getting hydrological data from China and i think the reason is it gives some idea if a natural dam has formed or at risk of breaking. This information is only for a few months of the year as well. We pay the salaries of the techs who collect this data

Chinese aren't doing anything in Siachen as far as i know and had nothing to do with siachen conflict. China had no input into Kargil either. Once it became clear India wasn't going to change the border both US & China pressured Pakistan to back off. Result was what Vajpaee wanted, vacate the intruders.
 
Anyone who thinks China will serve anything but its own interest is stupid. Same with USA. US interest lies in countering China. China wants to become USA. India is stuck in between as a pawn being played by both sides. China has propped Pakistan after USA dropped it, to keep India busy. Look at Kashmir constantly kept on the burners.

China is making progress by leaps and bounds. There is no comparison. They are far ahead militarily. They're building islands in the freaking ocean, while we cant build decent roads. The only reason why Media obsesses over them is cause RSS obsesses over them. They are in love with Nazi & totalitarian models.
 
US interest lies in countering China. China wants to become USA. India is stuck in between as a pawn being played by both sides. China has propped Pakistan after USA dropped it, to keep India busy. Look at Kashmir constantly kept on the burners.
Why do you say we're a pawn. Would you say the same of any of our smaller neighbours who repeatedly play us off China all the time ? if not then why can't india play the same game.

Think back to the cold war. Were we pawns of the soviets. The Americans might have thought that but we certainly did not

We used the Soviets like we are using the Americans now. Like our neighbours use us and China. Burma is the best player out of the lot. Neither of the two bigger powers wants to piss them off

China is making progress by leaps and bounds. There is no comparison. They are far ahead militarily. They're building islands in the freaking ocean, while we cant build decent roads. The only reason why Media obsesses over them is cause RSS obsesses over them. They are in love with Nazi & totalitarian models.
Their military progress does not help them against us as we benefit from geography. The china media obsession is diffuse. Army launching trial balloons for new toys, US lobby, NE wanting funds etc

One of the best most coherent ideas i came across for handling this dilemma actually comes from someone that's written for the Organiser since 1999
 
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Why do you say we're a pawn. Would you say the same of any of our smaller neighbours who repeatedly play us off China all the time ? if not then why can't india play the same game.

Think back to the cold war. Were we pawns of the soviets. The Americans might have thought that but we certainly did not

We used the Soviets like we are using the Americans now. Like our neighbours use us and China. Burma is the best player out of the lot. Neither of the two bigger powers wants to piss them off


Their military progress does not help them against us as we benefit from geography. The china media obsession is diffuse. Army launching trial balloons for new toys, US lobby, NE wanting funds etc

One of the best most coherent ideas i came across for handling this dilemma actually comes from someone that's written for the Organiser since 1999
Please read up before saying BS that has nothing to do with the real world. Your ignorance keeps showing. No I wont give you links to resources, do that yourself.
 
Please read up before saying BS that has nothing to do with the real world. Your ignorance keeps showing. No I wont give you links to resources, do that yourself.
Ya, i know this topic a lot better than you do. You want to concede ? fine. I always win with you :D
 
lmao sure sure. Your great knowledge is on full display. Definitely great to read and get a good laugh.
You're not engaging. One challenge and you folded already. Show us your real knowledge

Anything said that cannot withstand challenges isn't worth much. This is the problem, people are just parroting out narratives and cannot defend

I take issue with this word pawn. Pawn neans use and then discard, When in our history has that been the case post independence ?

Paks ? ya. Their sole reason to exist is as a military outpost for the west. Even they would not accept this term, useful yes
 
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This video gives good overview of China's grand plans and ambitions, its quite crazy to watch on what the future holds....


In short :-
China is literally encircling India by forging business and military partnerships with smaller countries in the Asian Subcontinent and beyond. They are everywhere and it's very clear that they aren't interested in forming similar relationships with India for obvious reasons.

They've taken over the ports in Hambanthota and Karachi on 99 year leases, after both SL and Pak couldn't pay China back for building and maintaining them. This is slowly happening in every country China is engaging with in South East Asia, the Gulf and Africa and beyond.
It's only a matter of time before China's brand new Aircraft carriers, destroyers and submarine fleet sail out in the Indian Ocean and dock at these ports, which just happen to be outside India's territorial waters.



They literally claim the entire archipelago of the south china sea islands, which are way outside China's territorial waters.

They have already built naval bases, missile silos, garrisons and fuel depots with huge runways on it . It's in the middle of the most vital trade/shipping routes in the world. The US has been conducting aerial reconnaissance over these islands for a long time now, they keep getting warned by the Chinese. Make no mistake, there will be confrontation in the future between US and China over the disputed islands.

160712012850-china-south-china-sea-philippines-ruling-rivers-lklv-full-169.jpg


f-spratlys-a-20170701-870x720.jpg


18774462_303.jpg



How all this plays out in the near future is anyone's guess....
 
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This video gives good overview of China's grand plans and ambitions, its quite crazy to watch on what the future holds....

It's very a general overview. After following their project for over a year i'm left with just one conclusion that any strategic motives are exaggerated and untenable meaning it will mostly be for trade as they've always maintained.

In short :-
China is literally encircling India by forging business and military partnerships with smaller countries in the Asian Subcontinent and beyond. They are everywhere and it's very clear that they aren't interested in forming similar relationships with India for obvious reasons.
The business side yes, so this means influence. So the neighbours start demanding we offer matching bids which we don't have to to maintain influence. I'd argue China is very interested in investing in India. Most interested in getting us on board their BRI. But one bania vs another bania isn't working :)

The question is what are their terms. The Japanese have committed to investing $30+ billion at fractions of a percent in interest and open terms. The Chinese are offering loans at 2.5% in the neighbourhood. Increasingly i find those terms aren't disclosed leading to all sorts of conspiracy theories and demands by people for more transparency. The Pak FinMin has a section where they try to counter some of the scare mongering that goes on in their press mostly due to poor research or misunderstanding. Course people say this is just govt propaganda but i don't entirely buy that line because what are the Paks going to do otherwise if they refuse the Chinese. And Paks have refused a few times because terms weren't agreeable.

The Japanese have been in this business since the 50s. No controversies. Another constraint is the Chinese want complete control over materials and labour. Chinese banks loan so that only chinese companies & labour benefit for the sole purpose to sell chinese goods. Does not help local industry much because they can't be used. It's not an enabling project in that sense more of a China exclusive only since they are the financiers. Only China is allowed to build so China can sell more. The Japanese have offered projects to Pakistan but to my surprise were turned down. This implies there is some sort of non-compete at play. China & Japan don't want to be played off each other. So pick one sponsor but not both perhaps.

They've taken over the ports in Hambanthota and Karachi on 99 year leases, after both SL and Pak couldn't pay China back for building and maintaining them. This is slowly happening in every country China is engaging with in South East Asia, the Gulf and Africa and beyond.
Gwadar is forty years. It's unclear what exactly China gets from a 99 yr lease. But i will tell you when the deal was struck SL was in the international doghouse after finishing off the LTTE. Where was Rajapaksa to get loans from ? only the chinese and he had to swallow what ever they demanded. In fact he offered Hamabantota to us first but we refused because there was no commercial potential whatsoever. So in the video you will notice its people in a jam or autocrats that accept Chinese terms that literally saddle the country in debt for their own personal gains. This means any BRI project is going to get looked at very closely by the opposition here and allegations of corruption are going to be the first thing they will say

After the recent Malaysian election the new guy there has said he would review existing projects there for viability and even renegotiate terms. Chinese are being like money lenders here

It's only a matter of time before China's brand new Aircraft carriers, destroyers and submarine fleet sail out in the Indian Ocean and dock at these ports, which just happen to be outside India's territorial waters.
heh, first let them graduate two squadrons of pilots that can land on an aircraft carrier. Also managing aircraft carriers isn't easy, takes time and blood. We've had carriers since the 60s. The Chinese got their first like yesterday. Then how well can their carriers withstand attacks or are they death traps. They are all untested. Subs is something we have to watch for, this is a better cheaper plan for them especially if they can take out more expensive targets. But these will be tracked and locations known and shared between friendly countries. If you notice we are fast becoming friends with countries that matter in this regard and this includes information sharing like if they see any subs pass by. We even do exercises but they are at a basic level. More like meet ups than actually training to fight China

The one thing you cannot do is make a numbers comparison. China has more because their needs are more it does not mean they can throw everything at us and leave their other flanks undefended. The further out they are the more vulnerable they become.

China's biggest problem is geography. On land and its even worse at sea. Supplying all these ports will be next to impossible in a conflict which makes them useless in war time. They will be more useful if China can create alliances. But they have none. There is no alliance even with NK & the Paks. China has few friends. So in short a lot of things have to happen before all you said becomes a factor to consider. For now its a load of hot air and future promises. Fear sells, a lot of publications like to publish these scary stories, the chinese are coming, the chinese are coming, watch out !!! :D

They literally claim the entire archipelago of the south china sea islands, which are way outside China's territorial waters.

They have already built naval bases, missile silos, garrisons and fuel depots with huge runways on it . It's in the middle of the most vital trade/shipping routes in the world. The US has been conducting aerial reconnaissance over these islands for a long time now, they keep getting warned by the Chinese. Make no mistake, there will be confrontation in the future between US and China over the disputed islands.

160712012850-china-south-china-sea-philippines-ruling-rivers-lklv-full-169.jpg


f-spratlys-a-20170701-870x720.jpg


18774462_303.jpg

Key point to remember is the Chinese cannot do in the Indian ocean what they are doing in the south china sea. They cannot start any trouble here just as we cannot in their back yard.

Nobody is getting into any war over a bunch of rocks. The USN can squeeze them very effectively by blocking choke points where China does trade or fuel. Geography remember. The USN has allies as well. So the Chinese aren't going to start anything that escalates. Their plan is to hit below thresholds and once threshold are reached meaning you actually stand up to the buggers like we did last June or the Vietnamese back in 2014, then they back off.

The Americans do not choose sides when it comes to territorial disputes as they have no interest in being embroiled in other people's affairs. This lack of interest is perceived sometimes as not being supportive to smaller powers which plays into the US are a declining power narrative. They are not. Their main goal is to ensure freedom of navigation and this continues as usual. The last two presidents had to face a China test, few months after they enter office there will be some naval incident, Bush had his test and so did Obama. Funny thing is Trump has turned the tables on them right from the start so his China test is still pending. I think they are afraid to test him :D


How all this plays out in the near future is anyone's guess....
Nothing much to worry about for the next thirty years, after that i don't know. To handle China we have to grow more than is the case currently. 7% isn't enough, we need to be at 10% and remain there for a couple of decades. how to do that. Subramaniam swamy had something interesting to say here, when it comes to economics i tend to listen to the guy because he actually has a PhD in the subject

Growth = investment / capital efficiency

So to increase growth you can either increase investment and/or get a lower index for efficiency, lower here is actually better. Our efficiency stands at 4. The Japanese are at 3. So how quickly we can get to 3 will determine how well and fast we can grow. If we increase investment too at the same time it will be still faster

The Chinese do not see us as equals. They expect us to kowtow to them which will never happen because we believe we are exceptional. This is why how the relationship goes is critical. It can be win win since we actually have a lot in common given the large number of people we have. There is also lots to learn from them by this i mean learn from their mistakes instead of making them ourselves.
 
This video gives good overview of China's grand plans and ambitions, its quite crazy to watch on what the future holds....


In short :-
China is literally encircling India by forging business and military partnerships with smaller countries in the Asian Subcontinent and beyond. They are everywhere and it's very clear that they aren't interested in forming similar relationships with India for obvious reasons.

They've taken over the ports in Hambanthota and Karachi on 99 year leases, after both SL and Pak couldn't pay China back for building and maintaining them. This is slowly happening in every country China is engaging with in South East Asia, the Gulf and Africa and beyond.
It's only a matter of time before China's brand new Aircraft carriers, destroyers and submarine fleet sail out in the Indian Ocean and dock at these ports, which just happen to be outside India's territorial waters.



They literally claim the entire archipelago of the south china sea islands, which are way outside China's territorial waters.

They have already built naval bases, missile silos, garrisons and fuel depots with huge runways on it . It's in the middle of the most vital trade/shipping routes in the world. The US has been conducting aerial reconnaissance over these islands for a long time now, they keep getting warned by the Chinese. Make no mistake, there will be confrontation in the future between US and China over the disputed islands.

160712012850-china-south-china-sea-philippines-ruling-rivers-lklv-full-169.jpg


f-spratlys-a-20170701-870x720.jpg


18774462_303.jpg



How all this plays out in the near future is anyone's guess....
Haha dont say that or @blr_p will just come out and say this is all your imagination. Oops, he already did.

As for all that you mentioned, I can only add this - With china, take the worst that you can imagine, and multiply it by 100. Its going to be a ****ed up few decades now. I really really hope someone like Arvind Kejriwal becomes the PM and we can finally start growing at our full potential. Else if we dont catch up, we are foocked. We need money, indigenous tech and a revolution, all in next 10 years that can bring us up to par with China's economic and military strength. Military im not that worried about cause there is better stuff available to buy off the shelves outside india. Economy though is a whole different thing.

We must also not forget the China - Russia complex that is coming up. Its increasingly clear that they are in this together to destabilise the entire planet.
 
With china, take the worst that you can imagine, and multiply it by 100. Its going to be a ****ed up few decades now. I really really hope someone like Arvind Kejriwal becomes the PM and we can finally start growing at our full potential. Else if we dont catch up, we are foocked. We need money, indigenous tech and a revolution, all in next 10 years that can bring us up to par with China's economic and military strength.

Not possible with indian people's default mindset even in 1000 years. i've never seen such lazy, incompetent people in such large numbers congregated in one place. If india was still divided like before the British came, there wouldn't be any difference between undivided and divided india now. The place would still be filthy with people shitting and littering and look like a swamp with black water.

I say let the indian people start by keeping the entire country / city / town / residential building / etc clean by themselves. Catching up to another country comes later. Even street food vendors in Thailand keep their places spic and span and here people litter and throw rubbish saying its the govt's job to clean it. Why should the govt clean somebody else's mess? you ignorant guys made the mess, you clean it up. What dumb retards. We need to cane people with bamboo to stop them from dirtying the place. I'm guessing the general populace will not care for the country without a bit of caning.
 
Not possible with indian people's default mindset even in 1000 years. i've never seen such lazy, incompetent people in such large numbers congregated in one place. If india was still divided like before the British came, there wouldn't be any difference between undivided and divided india now. The place would still be filthy with people shitting and littering and look like a swamp with black water.

I say let the indian people start by keeping the entire country / city / town / residential building / etc clean by themselves. Catching up to another country comes later. Even street food vendors in Thailand keep their places spic and span and here people litter and throw rubbish saying its the govt's job to clean it. Why should the govt clean somebody else's mess? you ignorant guys made the mess, you clean it up. What dumb retards. We need to cane people with bamboo to stop them from dirtying the place. I'm guessing the general populace will not care for the country without a bit of caning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewing_gum_ban_in_Singapore
 
Haha dont say that or @blr_p will just come out and say this is all your imagination. Oops, he already did.
I could have replied to the opener and title with just one word

Hype!

The Chinese actually encourage it, free PR helps build up this 'don't mess with us' image. But that attitude is selective. Towards the US, towards India, towards Japan or Vietnam. North Korea & Burma screw with China in all sorts of ways yet dragon is mostly silent.

Else if we dont catch up, we are foocked. We need money, indigenous tech and a revolution, all in next 10 years that can bring us up to par with China's economic and military strength. Military im not that worried about cause there is better stuff available to buy off the shelves outside india. Economy though is a whole different thing.
It's an open question how long they can continue to grow. They will get old soon. 2030? their stupid one child policy is going to bite them then. We don't have to catch up we just need to continue to grow and not get stagnant. The difficult bit is fighting vested interests. That's the biggest barrier to reforms every where including China. Modi hasn't been able to make much headway with labour reforms because the unions will cripple the country. How much have we really reformed since 1990. The bare minimum necessary to keep things working. There is a lot that can be done if the will is there

We must also not forget the China - Russia complex that is coming up. Its increasingly clear that they are in this together to destabilise the entire planet.
A marriage of convenience brought on by western sanctions which quite frankly Russia is solely responsible for . The Soviets almost nuked China in the 70s which is why Mao went running to the US. It's ok for China to befriend US then but when we do it then its a threat to China. Total BS!

Also the Russians compete with the Chinese for influence in Central Asia. It's an uneasy relationship[DOUBLEPOST=1529068910][/DOUBLEPOST]Whether or not there will be a war between the US & China is very debatable. I've heard comparisons of present East Asia to Europe pre WW1. Then there is the Thucydides trap which some think is inescapable

https://tnsr.org/roundtable/war-with-china-contrasting-visions/

A review of four books on the subject with contrasting views. In short there is no clincher. Which in a way is for the better. As ambiguity here is better than clarity at least until the time when it becomes inescapable, hopefully it will not
 
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