Looking to Buy Top Loading Washing Machine

Mr.J

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Mom is against front loading machines, so have to go with top loading one.

Features looking for:

Fully automatic
Good after sales service
As little water wastage as possible

Other than this I don't have a freaking clue about features and how useful they are. :facepalm:

Have looked at these two but I don't know on what basis should I compare. :oops:
https://www.bosch-home.in/productlist/washer-dryer/washing-machines/top-loading-washing-machines/WOE704W0IN
https://www.whirlpoolindia.com/washing-machines/fully-automatic-top-load/stainwash-ultra-7_0-graphite-10-ymw

Your inputs are welcome.

Price: Around 20-22k
 

dpandey

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Other than this I don't have a freaking clue about features and how useful they are. :facepalm:
Bought an top loading LG 8 years ago. It has sat in its corner all this time and done its job without complaining. I have only used two buttons, power and start. No idea what the other buttons do :)

When I call the LG service, they turn up without fail (it has not needed servicing yet, i have other LG equipment too).

No idea about water usage. But I see it filling the tub twice (or maybe thrice) for a full wash cycle.
 

Futureized

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Mom is against front loading machines, so have to go with top loading one.

Features looking for:

Fully automatic
Good after sales service
As little water wastage as possible

Other than this I don't have a freaking clue about features and how useful they are. :facepalm:

Have looked at these two but I don't know on what basis should I compare. :oops:
https://www.bosch-home.in/productlist/washer-dryer/washing-machines/top-loading-washing-machines/WOE704W0IN
https://www.whirlpoolindia.com/washing-machines/fully-automatic-top-load/stainwash-ultra-7_0-graphite-10-ymw

Your inputs are welcome.

Price: Around 20-22k
Kindly share first, why your mom is insisting on top load compared to front.. same situation here. my sister wants a top load machine..
I researched the washing machine thing and found front load being more efficient on power/water etc.

Planning to buy a new fully automatic machine next month..[DOUBLEPOST=1548326687][/DOUBLEPOST]We got 6 adults and 2 kids (smallest yet to come :)) with gods grace.

3 couples..
1 aged (mom/dad)
myself/sister
brother/wife/ + a naughty kid + 1 on way :)

I am confused on capacity as well..
I need best solution (energy saving equipment most important).

Pricing high/low can get adjusted.

Regards,

Sorry to get into this topic without your confirmation @Mr.J but might help both of us..
 
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adder

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Front load wins on all counts less water draw, much superior was quality.

If you do choose front load, purely in terms of reliabilty the samsung drum spindle is deliberetly designed to fail in 4 to 6 years, Lg is better. But wash quality is lower compared to other brands. Samsung as one of the best wash quality but may be due to longer time for wash.
Whirlpool is overall better wash quality and reliabilty, However Bosch/seimens, whirlpool and many others if something goes wrong in drum like a bearing seal or the bearings or the spyder, you need to replace the entire drum assembely
While samsung and Lg have parts available to replace(atleasts thats the case in foreign countries).
 
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Futureized

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A few more additions to my earlier post regarding Top loading vs Front loading.
  • Front loads usually come with built in heater for hot water wash, Only a few Top loads come with heater (read high end)
  • Front load door is locked once the wash cycle starts, you cannot open it till the cycle is finished. Say, power goes off in between cycle, the door is locked till power comes back and the wash cycle is finished.
  • There is an emergency release system though, but it is tedious, you have to open a manual drain valve and then you can open the door by manually unlocking it. The process is so tedious that only extreme cases require you to do this.
  • If budget is not a problem then take a Front load anyday. Trust me you won't regret the decision.
https://www.techenclave.com/community/threas/automatic-washing-machine-rs-20-25-000-purchased-lg-8067teelr.172952/#post-2019879

Just understanding difference between front/top and best alternative.
 

blr_p

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Have looked at these two but I don't know on what basis should I compare. :oops:
What is the size of your present machine. Measure the drum size. What is the height & diameter

Presumably you want something the same size or bigger ?

You will want to compare this in the shops as weight classifications tend to drift upwards with size remaining the same.

Yesterday's smaller size becomes today's bigger size, tomorrow :)

As for differences
- Bosch uses a plastic tub. Whirlpool has a steel one. This has a direct bearing on wash temperature and ultimately wash quality. The Bosch has no heater. So in colder weather your water won't get heated and wash quality will suffer. The Bosch indicates cold wash for cottons which is a straight fail as it means it can't clean as well as with a higher temperature. I would not go with this Bosch model.

Hottest i noticed tap water out of the storage tank in the middle of the year was 35 degrees. Right now, water out the tap is 20 degrees. Ariel & Surf are not designed to work at such a low temperature. There are other detergents ie more expensive that probably could but many cold washes without hot washes is bad as germs don't get reduced. Getting the temperature right will have a larger bearing on cleaning quality than front loader or top loader. In the end its the detergent that does the bulk of the cleaning.

The Whirlpool gets up to 60 degrees which is essential for cottons. If that matters. Anything with elastic won't do well at 60, so bed sheets, towels and cottons without elastic only. I consider a hot option essential for a washing machine. However 60 degrees isn't enough for 99.99% germ free as claimed, for that you need to get closer to boiling. Still, its better than no heating by a large extent. I expect some programs will at least heat water to 40 degrees if necessary.

I'd ignore this smart detergent recommendation feature. The best judge for that is you.

Hard water wash could be interesting if you have hard water.

Avoid express washes, proper washes only. Express washes are for refreshing clothes that are either new or sat in the cupboard for long. If it never touched your skin then express wash is ok.

The whirlpool also promises it can work with very low tap water pressure which is another plus. Whirlpool is the better pick just on the basis of washing. Are there any other contenders ?

Can't find any manuals for the whirlpool, they want to show me a brochure only :mad:
 
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blr_p

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I researched the washing machine thing and found front load being more efficient on power/water etc.
The one feature that is preferable on a FL is the boil wash. I use this primarily for tub cleaning. Why does it matter. Because the only way to sterlise a machine is to boil water in it. LG's tub clean only gets up to 70 degrees. Found this out using an IR thermometer on the glass. So i use the cotton cycle at 95 with nothing to sterilise the machine once a month.

How hot can a Top Loader get ? With the two models above. The Bosch model does not heat water at all. The whirlpool only gets as high as 60 degrees.

I am confused on capacity as well..
I need best solution (energy saving equipment most important).
What do you use presently. Give me the drum dimensions.

You have to nail down what your load is and how often you wash.

As for energy savings, washing everything on cold saves energy but is counter productive. Cottons on 60, every thing else on 40. There is no way around this if you want clean clothes. Detergents we get do not activate below 40 degrees.

Express wash saves energy too, shorter wash means less energy but is not advisable.
 
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blr_p

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Just wanted to post this because it lasted 27 years. That means it managed nearly 10,000 cycles. Astounding. A record like that would be considered commercial grade. Today if you can get 2000 cycles you're doing well with a consumer machine.

IMG-20190121-WA0000.jpg IMG-20190121-WA0001.jpg
 
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blr_p

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@blr_p thanks for detailed explanation, using semi-automatic from onida i guess for past 15 years here.
I guess 5 or 6.5 kg thing. will check exact details, got bills n stuff
All you need is a measuring tape. Height/Depth of the drum and diameter in cm ?

kg is a useless term. I don't know what it means.

Whether you want the same size or bigger. Go to the store with measuring tape and find a model and post the specs of candidates.
 

adder

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Just wanted to post this because it lasted 27 years. That means it managed nearly 10,000 cycles. Astounding. A record like that would be considered commercial grade. Today if you can get 2000 cycles you're doing well with a consumer machine.

View attachment 78476 View attachment 78477
Lol, that 27 years old model lasted that long because it has a steel tub and big bearings, do not sell it.

All FL washing machines these days (except Miele washing machine and commercial) have plastic tub(nothing wrong with that) but manfactures in 2007 onwards made a switch to have welded plastic tub, meaning if the bearings fail, there is now way to replace them, apart from buying a entire drum assembely.

Manufactures deliberetly plastic weld the two halves of the tub, to make repairing impossible, so consumers will be forced to buy a new washing machine after 4 to 8 years.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130577/Washing-machines-cheaper-replace-fix-Manufacturers-accused-making-appliances-costly-complicated-repair.html

If you see my posts in 2008 I had bought the whirpool Sud 701 front load european built one, this has a plastic tub but it was the last generation of whirpool model that has a removable tub/drum, held by snap clamps. In 2015 the bearing started to fail, by 2017 it was sounding like a road roller .

(To anyone using FL machines.)
The bearings failed because some one in the house used to much detergent in synthetic clothes or used the wrong detergent, or to much detergent, this caused hell of lot of foam, which in turn washes away the grease in the bearing seal. So once the seals fails due to increased friction(due to no grease) water started to sip in to the bearings, eventualy it started to make grinding noise.y

By then Whirlpool India discontinued front load machines in India and Service center refused to service with. So after a proper DIY repair which basicaly involved removing everything to the bone, replacing the seal and bearings, which was PIA job, sourcing the seal was also difficult. I spent about 600 bucks for the bearing and seal, the washing machine is good for another 10years. Knowing that I just saved myself from buying a crappy sealed drum washing machince, the DIY repair effort was worth it.

At that time 2008, one top of the line model in IFB, the sales person said it had a steel tub and drum, but plastic parts looked and felt cheap, switch was borken in the showroom itself.

The IFB bosch licenced ones made in 90s where just built to last they cannot be compared to the current ones. Even those 20 year old bosch IFB used machines are better buy then the current ones.

Today bosch/siemens, whirlpool, samsung, lg etc are designed basically for use and throw, planned obsolescence . Lg and samsung may have plastic tubs which are helb by screws. But samsung also built the spyder/spider arm assembly to deliberetly fail in 4 to 5 years. Atleast they sell the replacement in western countries.

Anyone who have got their Lg, samsung FL machines serviced please confirm if you have, removable plastic tub which can unscrewed or whether it now as a welded sealed tub.
 
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blr_p

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Lol, that 27 years old model lasted that long because it has a steel tub and big bearings, do not sell it.
I'll tell her that. Not had a chance to check it out yet but she was told the drum was gone. Will be easy to determine if the basket has a broken spider arm or not. I suspect the bearings are shot. Which won't be too difficult to fix if laborious. Some one even posted a video on youtube to do just that for this model.

All FL washing machines these days (except Miele washing machine and commercial) have plastic tub(nothing wrong with that) but manfactures in 2007 onwards made a switch to have welded plastic tub, meaning if the bearings fail, there is now way to replace them, apart from buying a entire drum assembely.
Yes, so does my LG but my point with plastic tubs in the case of the Bosch FL is it does not have a heater. A plastic tub does not stop my machine from 95 degree washes.

Manufactures deliberetly plastic weld the two halves of the tub, to make repairing impossible, so consumers will be forced to buy a new washing machine after 4 to 8 years.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130577/Washing-machines-cheaper-replace-fix-Manufacturers-accused-making-appliances-costly-complicated-repair.html
I suspect this is the case with cheaper machines. In the UK they have other brands that are cheaper than Korean, these are not really serviceable

If you see my posts in 2008 I had bought the whirpool Sud 701 front load european built one, this has a plastic tub but it was the last generation of whirpool model that has a removable tub/drum, held by snap clamps. In 2015 the bearing started to fail, by 2017 it was sounding like a road roller .
Don't think the Krean have gone with welded yet. It may happen soon as prices for these appliances have to be kept stable through the years despite inflation.

20K in 1990 is worth 80k in todays money at 5%

The IFB bosch licenced ones made in 90s where just built to last they cannot be compared to the current ones. Even those 20 year old bosch IFB used machines are better buy then the current ones.
Anything bought from that era or earlier can be serviced almost indefinitely.

Today bosch/siemens, whirlpool, samsung, lg etc are designed basically for use and throw, planned obsolescence . Lg and samsung may have plastic tubs which are helb by screws. But samsung also built the spyder/spider arm assembly to deliberetly fail in 4 to 5 years. Atleast they sell the replacement in western countries.
Yeah screws on the Koreans. I was looking at spare parts for machines and trying to find equivalents and you could clearly see the tub came in two halves. Bosch does this as well.

Why do you say the samsung spyder was deliberately designed to fail ?
 

adder

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Yeah screws on the Koreans. I was looking at spare parts for machines and trying to find equivalents and you could clearly see the tub came in two halves. Bosch does this as well.

Why do you say the samsung spyder was deliberately designed to fail ?
Only the older bosch, I believe pre 2005 came with two halves, not the new ones. None of the new EU(except Miele), american washing consumer washing machine manufactures have bearings or half tub parts listed in Online parts stores.

Lots of consumer complaints tons of youtube videos from US customers about samsung spyder arm going disintegrating, when you have two dissimilar metals and water, you will get galvonic corrosion. Samsung spyder is made of a realy bad alloy.

When I removed out the drum from the whirlpool, the spyder was still in very good shape even,(it only had salt formation), even after close to 9 years of use, after me scrubbing of the salt, the metal doesn't appeared to have any corrosion.
 
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blr_p

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Only the older bosch, I believe pre 2005 came with two halves, not the new ones. None of the new EU(except Miele), american washing consumer washing machine manufactures have bearings or half tub parts listed in Online parts stores.
Picking the cheapest Bosch FL in the UK.

Now looking for parts here.

bsch exploded view.JPG

We see the tub for that machine uses tabs. It's not welded. Spider and the drum are available. Bearings aren't listed but would it be that difficult to get them.

Lots of consumer complaints tons of youtube videos from US customers about samsung spyder arm going disintegrating, when you have two dissimilar metals and water, you will get galvonic corrosion. Samsung spyder is made of a realy bad alloy.

When I removed out the drum from the whirlpool, the spyder was still in very good shape even,(it only had salt formation), even after close to 9 years of use, after me scrubbing of the salt, the metal doesn't appeared to have any corrosion.
I've seen those complaints but its hard to separate out user abuse from proper operation. Over loading, over dosing and hard water are all going to affect life. Hard water being the primary contributor. The best way to fix this is to install a water softener. Likely double the service life.

I know some people who got a samsung DD in 2011, still running fine here in bangalore. What i noticed the UK repair guys saying was they didn't like samsung because parts were harder to get but the situation is improving. Bosch was the best for parts followed by LG which were a little cheaper. LG sold that spider separately. Bosch did not and required the drum as well as is apparent in the above schematic. These two are friendly to third party repairers. Miele has a monopoly on parts and can charge whatever they want for them as well as the service.
 
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adder

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Hmm, Guess they started to implement it again. Possibly may be due to lawsuits and complaints to EU and other groups.

But in that bosch listing only the series 4 model have removable tub, series 6 and above all have sealed tub.
There parts store still doesn't list the tub or bearings, even though it's in the part diagram.
The tabs doesn't appear to be those break off types, since there are lot of screw holes. But taking of them by pressing via screw driver may again be PIA.

Apart from samsung, only some chinese and US companies have complaint about the spyder. Germans not so much.

Miele parts are expensive, but the warranty they provide is huge. I believe 10 years(although not in india). They have a stainless steel tub and costs MRP 85k but for the price you can buy two other make wm
 

blr_p

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But in that bosch listing only the series 4 model have removable tub, series 6 and above all have sealed tub.
Yes, it is sealed with serie 6

bsch series 6 exploded view.JPG

Now its integrated and costs 50% more. Part is listed. Price is reasonable considering the cost of the machine has nearly doubled with series 6. Wonder what is so great with series 6.

There parts store still doesn't list the tub or bearings, even though it's in the part diagram.
Replaced link of american with UK parts site. All parts are there now.

The tabs doesn't appear to be those break off types, since there are lot of screw holes. But taking of them by pressing via screw driver may again be PIA.

Apart from samsung, only some chinese and US companies have complaint about the spyder. Germans not so much.

Miele parts are expensive, but the warranty they provide is huge. I believe 10 years(although not in india). They have a stainless steel tub and costs MRP 85k but for the price you can buy two other make wm
Had looked at the price earlier on and concluded a basic LG was good enough for mine and i'd imagine a good chunk of the population as well. I found the Miele prices in India to be double the UK price which was around the 900 pound mark for an entry level. Maybe with more imports the price has come down , this was back in 2016. Miele remain popular with hotels for dish washers and glasses
 

adder

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Yes, it is sealed with serie 6
Now its integrated and costs 50% more. Part is listed. Price is reasonable considering the cost of the machine has nearly doubled with series 6. Wonder what is so great with series 6.

Had looked at the price earlier on and concluded a basic LG was good enough for mine and i'd imagine a good chunk of the population as well.
The price doesn't have to be that much, in the manufacturing process, they intentionally weld it, the only parts that would fail inside the drum assembly would have only costed like 600 bucks vs buying the entire drum assembly which is totaly not needed.

Lg is overall good, wish or hope samsung has improved their build quality.
Here is a very good site for washingmmachine reviews, they test the wash quality by using a strip of cloth with variety of stubborn stains, also compare the noise, and other important factors. https://www.trustedreviews.com/type/washing-machines/
 

blr_p

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The price doesn't have to be that much, in the manufacturing process, they intentionally weld it, the only parts that would fail inside the drum assembly would have only costed like 600 bucks vs buying the entire drum assembly which is totaly not needed.
There is one downside to a sealed tub. Imagine if you forget to empty pockets and something falls inside. In between the drum & tub. How would you get it out. Bobby pins spring to mind.

Lg is overall good, wish or hope samsung has improved their build quality.
Here is a very good site for washingmmachine reviews, they test the wash quality by using a strip of cloth with variety of stubborn stains, also compare the noise, and other important factors. https://www.trustedreviews.com/type/washing-machines/
heh, I know that site for mobile reviews. I suppose this is one way to test out different machines. Those cloth strips are all standardised. But how well clothes can be cleaned depends on how quickly they are washed after getting stained. Longer the stain remains more it sets in and a better machine i kinda doubt will make a difference.

The one thing that struck me about Samsungs is on the exterior they are very attractive. I have a habit of slamming doors in these shops and the Samsungs have a very satisfying sound when you close them. It makes you think the machine is really solid. Not quite the same solid bang with an LG.

Curry mode from Panasonic :D

Panasonic seems just ok. Didn't see anything in these machines that would make me prefer them over a Korean. The service network wouldn't be as established as the Koreans but acceptable in Tier 1 cities.