Looking to Buy Top Loading Washing Machine

blr_p

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Wash quality was excellent even with room temp water.
Bombay is on average five degrees hotter than Bangalore
bombay vs bangalore.JPG


If that translates into warmer water out of the tap you may just get away without heating from months may till years end.
 

Julian

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Lol, you gotta be kidding.

Just because bombay is 5deg hotter than bangy doesn't mean we get warm tap water. :D:D:D

I specifically avoid hot washing because even though clothes may come out a bit cleaner, they last much less long. I've never felt the need for a hot wash even with moderate soiling, a longer soak takes care of that. Of course someone will now say that hot washing kills bacteria etc... :rolleyes:
 

blr_p

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Hot wash isn't good for anything with elastic. Hot isn't good for colours either or mixed fabrics. It certainly isn't good for protein stains as then they get set.

No, i'm referring to 40 degrees. Warm. Not hot.

Either the detergent works better or you have to agitate more and i can 't see how the latter is good for clothes.

FL's have modifiers that increase the washe length that should only be used for stubborn stains and not all the time.
 

Julian

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Hot wash isn't good for anything with elastic. Hot isn't good for colours either or mixed fabrics. It certainly isn't good for protein stains as then they get set.
So basically, white bedsheets...:p

Nope, even in peak summer, we get relatively cool water here. The tank water doesn't really get warm. Probably because it's cycled/topped up with the underground sump water. The outside pipes though, get insanely hot and you might get like a couple litres of almost scalding water, and then the cool tank water reaches...
 

blr_p

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I've tried coloured cottons like bedsheets and towels and no issues noted. Cottons are fine at 60.

Microfibre towels too at 60

What queers things is a mixed load then i'm limited to 40.

I suppose it depends how much sun the tank gets. My water temperature can vary by as much as ten degrees between day and night in the present weather.

It actually felt warm the other afternoon and chilly when doing the dishes at night.
 

Futureized

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Lol, you gotta be kidding.

Just because bombay is 5deg hotter than bangy doesn't mean we get warm tap water. :D:D:D

I specifically avoid hot washing because even though clothes may come out a bit cleaner, they last much less long. I've never felt the need for a hot wash even with moderate soiling, a longer soak takes care of that. Of course someone will now say that hot washing kills bacteria etc... :rolleyes:
I agree with this comment, since born mother hardly uses hot water, till there are extreme stains or too old bedsheets kept for years unused in storage..
Till day normal tap water is used.. Why waste unnecessarily on boiling to required temperatures ?
I should share some stuff video, how clothes are washed, you all shall regret the quality of how those are done ;) ;)

You can fight with house PM.
 

adder

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I also never used hot water, the heating element inside the drum are squeaky clean. Also because of this my spyder assembly inside the drum doesn't have any galvanic corrosion.
 

rdst_1

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40 degrees is barely hot guys. Plus, I've read somewhere that the FL detergents work better at those temperatures rather than cold water.
 

blr_p

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Of course someone will now say that hot washing kills bacteria etc... :rolleyes:
Boiling hot washing kills bacteria not hot.

The idea here isn't to disinfect clothes, difficult to do nor is it necessary. It's to do with cleaning the tub and a boil wash with nothing inside sterlises the insides to the extent possible.

The best way to disinfect is chlorine bleach but over a period of time that will ruin the seals in the machine and require an extensive renovation. You don't want to use chlorine bleach in a machine. If any residue is left after the wash your next laundry load will be ruined.

Using any other disinfectant without studying its effects on rubber seals before hand isn't advisable.

What else is left ? boiling hot water and if that isn't there then hot.

Hydrogen peroxide disinfects quite well when sprayed on surfaces but is not very effective in a washing machine. Helps some what but not as good as boiling hot.

[DOUBLEPOST=1549384954][/DOUBLEPOST]
Till day normal tap water is used.. Why waste unnecessarily on boiling to required temperatures ?
You're not boiling the water just heating it to 40 or 60.

This way you have a consistent clean action.
 
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Julian

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I also never used hot water, the heating element inside the drum are squeaky clean. Also because of this my spyder assembly inside the drum doesn't have any galvanic corrosion.
I'm confused, what does heat have to do with galvanic corrosion? It will happen irrespective if there are two different metals in direct contact right?

40 degrees is barely hot guys. Plus, I've read somewhere that the FL detergents work better at those temperatures rather than cold water.
Exactly why i think FLs are too finicky or needy.

...It's to do with cleaning the tub and a boil wash with nothing inside sterlises the insides to the extent possible.
I've been using room temp water in washing machines since the late 80s and never had a clothing related infection. And i thought i was OCD... :rolleyes:
 

adder

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I'm confused, what does heat have to do with galvanic corrosion? It will happen irrespective if there are two different metals in direct contact right?
Yes it happens in cold water too, but I read and seen pictures of the hot water increasing the speed of the galvanic corrosion process, in some picture like in models which have both hot and cold water inlet, the hot water inlet is corroded more.
 
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blr_p

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I've been using room temp water in washing machines since the late 80s and never had a clothing related infection. And i thought i was OCD... :rolleyes:
I've used communal machines for over a decade and never caught anything. Washed on warm and then into the dryer. Some people run a hot wash before they put their laundry in but i don"t want to spend half a day in the laundrette so i never bothered.

The idea of cleaning a machine is good one though, all it does is get dirty clothes over the years.

It seems funny to think a washing machine needs a wash itself but they do.[DOUBLEPOST=1549395886][/DOUBLEPOST]
Exactly why i think FLs are too finicky or needy.
Can run a FL on cold too but why do it
 

adder

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@blr_p
So, today I was in showrooms for checking front loaders of 7 to 9kg and guess what I took a measuring tape with me. If the washing machine exteriors are the same for any given company, so is their internal volume of the drum.
Take for eg LG,samsung ( others too), they have models with narrow depth which range from 6 to 7kg both these sizes have same drum volume wise and the models with higher depth range from 7 to 9kg also have the same drum volume wise i.e 7, 8, 9kg.
So what one is paying for is just for a more powerful motor, perhaps with higher spec bearing for increased load (highly doubt it). Only on the Cotton cycle can these machines take the full rated respective loads, for all other cycles according to the manual they take the same load like a 7kg machine and a 9kg machine only takes 4kg load for mixed clothes. I was under the impression that for a higher kg model, all the different cycles will have proportional increase in the load capability, but that's not the case.

The next size which is 10kg have a different drum size and the cost increase is nearly 20% or more, compared to just 5 to 10% increase for every step up from 6 to 9kg.
 

blr_p

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@blr_p
So, today I was in showrooms for checking front loaders of 7 to 9kg and guess what I took a measuring tape with me. If the washing machine exteriors are the same for any given company, so is their internal volume of the drum.
Take for eg LG,samsung ( others too), they have models with narrow depth which range from 6 to 7kg both these sizes have same drum volume wise and the models with higher depth range from 7 to 9kg also have the same drum volume wise i.e 7, 8, 9kg.
The direct drive motors have a smaller volume drum for the lowest weight category compared to belt driven ie Bosch/Siemens. That IFB photo i posted had a 45 ltr drum compared to 36 lt for 6-7kg.

So what one is paying for is just for a more powerful motor, perhaps with higher spec bearing for increased load (highly doubt it). Only on the Cotton cycle can these machines take the full rated respective loads, for all other cycles according to the manual they take the same load like a 7kg machine and a 9kg machine only takes 4kg load for mixed clothes. I was under the impression that for a higher kg model, all the different cycles will have proportional increase in the load capability, but that's not the case.
True but those weight considerations mean nothing for me. I stick to a max loading of 65% by volume for mixed or cotton. Notice also that spin speeds will increase with bigger spec machines implying the tub might be a stronger gauge steel as the holes in the tub seem bigger. I see no need for higher speeds.

The next size which is 10kg have a different drum size and the cost increase is nearly 20% or more, compared to just 5 to 10% increase for every step up from 6 to 9kg.
lg 6 kg is 36lt
lg 7 kg is 54lt
lg 8 kg is 63lt

Machines get deeper as load increases. I cannot think of any good reason to get that 36lt model. Yet it gets recommended by sales people all the time because they are afraid they will lose the sale otherwise. The 7kg will be 10k more.

Volume difference is smaller between models from belt drive companies, around 10%
 
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adder

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The direct drive motors have a smaller volume drum for the lowest weight category compared to belt driven ie Bosch/Siemens. That IFB photo i posted had a 45 ltr drum compared to 36 lt for 6-7kg.


True but those weight considerations mean nothing for me. I stick to a max loading of 65% by volume for mixed or cotton. Notice also that spin speeds will increase with bigger spec machines implying the tub might be a stronger gauge steel as the holes in the tub seem bigger. I see no need for higher speeds.
Yes, The space occupied by the DD motor is more then a belt and pulley. For spin one used to get even higher rpms in 6kg models, not in india though. The trend here in India is 6 to 7kg 1000 to 1200rpm. 8 kg 1200rpm to 1400rpm. 9kg 1400 rpm. But then again they are doing that because why else charge so much, so the customer may think because of higher spin. Today when I was closely observing the drum for any signs of better build, they all looked the same if they where of the same company and size. So the higher spec motor can run higher loads without sacrificing its factory speed. But I doubt wash quality will be any different.
The price increase seems like highway robbery.

lg 6 kg is 36lt
lg 7 kg is 54lt
lg 8 kg is 63lt

Machines get deeper as load increases. I cannot think of any good reason to get that 36lt model. Yet it gets recommended by sales people all the time because they are afraid they will lose the sale otherwise. The 7kg will be 10k more.

Volume difference is smaller between models from belt drive companies, around 10%
When I returned home I was surprised that my 2008 7kg belt driven whirlpool still had a bigger drum volume then a 9kg lg or samsung. Only the 10kg or more matches or surpasses the volume of my old whirlpool.
Too bad the whirlpool newer models all use a welded tub. I think the newer whirlpool despite being a bldc inverter motor, they use a belt. Couldn't find one yet in display.
Where are you getting the volume info from. In LG there was two 7kg models one with a narrow drum and other with a deeper drum.
 

blr_p

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Yes, The space occupied by the DD motor is more then a belt and pulley. For spin one used to get even higher rpms in 6kg models, not in india though. The trend here in India is 6 to 7kg 1000 to 1200rpm. 8 kg 1200rpm to 1400rpm. 9kg 1400 rpm. But then again they are doing that because why else charge so much, so the customer may think because of higher spin. Today when I was closely observing the drum for any signs of better build, they all looked the same if they where of the same company and size. So the higher spec motor can run higher loads without sacrificing its factory speed. But I doubt wash quality will be any different.
The price increase seems like highway robbery.
One way to increase the price is to increase the door size. Drum volume of 30yr old IFB is similar to 6 kg Bosch but the door size is smaller. The other way to increase the price is the finish on the door. My LG has a plain white plastic finish. The same model also came with chrome colour plastic but the price jumped 5k extra. Wash quality and service life will be exactly the same. So go for the plain white once you get the right volume.

When I returned home I was surprised that my 2008 7kg belt driven whirlpool still had a bigger drum volume then a 9kg lg or samsung. Only the 10kg or more matches or surpasses the volume of my old whirlpool.
Too bad the whirlpool newer models all use a welded tub. I think the newer whirlpool despite being a bldc inverter motor, they use a belt. Couldn't find one yet in display.
Where are you getting the volume info from. In LG there was two 7kg models one with a narrow drum and other with a deeper drum.
Didn't you say your whirlpool has a plastic drum , instead of a stainless steel one ? or did i misunderstand

Figures from notes made when I measured drum dimensions in the shop back in 2015. These companies do not always mention the drum volume in the brochures or even manual so you have to go to the shops. What i've noticed over the years is the volume has remained similar but the weight specification had gone up. A 6 - 6.5 kg LG today would have been a 5kg back in 2010 for same drum volume.

Bosch, siemens 6kg - 43lt
LG, Samsung 6kg - 36lt

Bosch, siemens 7kg - 56.8lt
LG, Samsung 7kg - 54.2lt

LG, Samsung 8kg - 65lt
 
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adder

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One way to increase the price is to increase the door size. Drum volume of 30yr old IFB is maybe 3 litres less than 6.5kg Bosch but the door size is bigger. The other way to increase the price is the finish on the door. My LG has a plain white plastic finish. The same model also came with chrome colour plastic but the price jumped 5k extra. Wash quality and service life will be exactly the same. So go for the plain white once you get the right volume.
Yep, that's the trend now increase the door size, for no functional purpose. The white finish is actually better since the plastic used in certain areas like the control panel, detergent tray will not loose it's paint (may become slightly yellow, like mine after 11 years) because the white is plastic pigment itself. The other options like some form of silver look like they are painted with a different pigment plastic underneath, in these the scratches are easily visible. The stainless steel plate or finish are the most expensive at 5k premium. So will go for white, if not get the stainless steel finish type, matches my fridge.

Didn't you say your whirlpool has a plastic drum , instead of a stainless steel one ? or did i misunderstand
The whirpool has a stainless steel drum, with a plastic tub like every other washing machine and like the majority of the other companies, now has a welded tub.
Only the 1o to 20 year old certain models of IFB had a stainless steel tub, apart from Miele.

Not a single LG machine in display, in three different showroom, had the rat guard not installed, so couldn't confirm about the non-welded tub. Will need a endoscope type camera to find out. But a youtube video of some one installing that rat guard below, hints at a removable tub, the area around the tub is dark/no light to be 100% certain.


Figures from notes made when I measured drum dimensions in the shop back in 2015. These companies do not always mention the drum volume in the brochures or even manual so you have to go to the shops. What i've noticed over the years is the volume has remained similar but the weight specification had gone up. A 6 - 6.5 kg LG today would have been a 5kg back in 2010 for same drum volume.

Bosch, siemens 6kg - 43lt
LG, Samsung 6kg - 36lt

Bosch, siemens 7kg - 56.8lt
LG, Samsung 7kg - 54.2lt

LG, Samsung 8kg - 65lt
I guess that's due to marketing or the torque of the brushless motors. But even in EU with those tough laws, the kg spec has gone up. Also the water level consumption, my whirlpool A+ for EU efficiency which was a flagship model in 7kg way back then, consumed 8L of water/kg of load. Today's A+++ EU models consumes as low 5.x to 6.x L / kg of load, no mention of these in Indian brochure and website.
 
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rdst_1

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I perosnally have decided that all my appliance upgrades from now on are going to be industrial grade stuff. They are much better engineered and also are easier to repair. They are designed to be regularly maintained and hence are designed in such a manner so that all electricals and other parts are easily accessible. My first upgrade is going to be a refrigerator/freezer combo or two individual units. My 20 yr old refrigerator is giving some issues and is not giving the right voltage to the defrost timer. We need to check the wiring but most of it is inaccessible and the local repairmen aren't motivated enough to do the needful. I am still going to try and salvage it at my end but if it doesn't work out in the end, then I'll upgrade to an industrial unit. The ones I have looked at allow you to slide out the whole compressor/electric area for easy access to carry out repairs when needed.
 

blr_p

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I perosnally have decided that all my appliance upgrades from now on are going to be industrial grade stuff. They are much better engineered and also are easier to repair. They are designed to be regularly maintained and hence are designed in such a manner so that all electricals and other parts are easily accessible. My first upgrade is going to be a refrigerator/freezer combo or two individual units. My 20 yr old refrigerator is giving some issues and is not giving the right voltage to the defrost timer. We need to check the wiring but most of it is inaccessible and the local repairmen aren't motivated enough to do the needful. I am still going to try and salvage it at my end but if it doesn't work out in the end, then I'll upgrade to an industrial unit. The ones I have looked at allow you to slide out the whole compressor/electric area for easy access to carry out repairs when needed.
which models are you looking at ?