MTNL Binatone router and TP-Link 740N running DD-WRT

vivek.krishnan

BLR~ZRS-TX-1-MX
Skilled
Since I was crashing out at a relatives place for the night - decided to check out the range issues faced with the stock MTNL router - Apart from Hathway, only MTNL provides net connectivity here. So got along my spare 740N which was bought for a friend.

The MTNL router is a Binatone 856 W model which comes with WiFi and the usual works plus a WiFi on-off button on the front (which seemed not to work). its a FastEthernet enabled WiFi router with speeds upto 150Mbps.

The other router is a TP-Link 740N, running DD-WRT. The hardware version was 4.24. The only limitation noticed was that WiFi was limited to 72Mbps - even though the max supported is 150Mbps - a minor flaw.

Both seemed to be using 5dBi antennas - since they looked the same and the TP-Link box has very clearly mentioned that it has a 5dBi antenna for extra long range.

On the location - the 740N is kept on a slightly higher surface than the 856 - the positions cannot be changed as there is no space. The layout of the house is a box style with one room opening into the other - there are three rooms in total and the router is in the corner of room 1 and the laptop and mobile were on the same side, but the last room.

Range - Last room : the signal strength of the 856 was lesser than -90dBm; so no connectivity, while the 740N was about ~ -80 to -90 dBm.
First room : 856 was between -60 to -70 dBm while for the 740N it was -40 to -50 dBm.

In short : the binatone is good enough for two rooms/1 wall. With two walls and obstructions, its useless.

Suggestions I plan to make : 1. Increase the height at which the router is kept. Its too low now.
2. Ditch the ADSL router for a ADSL modem + router. The 856 kept hanging periodically.

PS : Just wrote this because was bored. And since there was no high speed buffering from YouTube nor was anything good on TV. Mods can put this in GT if needed.
 
The only limitation noticed was that WiFi was limited to 72Mbps - even though the max supported is 150Mbps - a minor flaw.
Its running on 20Mhz thats why. At 40mhz you will see a link speed of ~135Mbs.

Also your client matters. Which did you use ?

In short : the binatone is good enough for two rooms/1 wall. With two walls and obstructions, its useless.
Yep, that's the general story with these ISP provded wifi routers.

Suggestions I plan to make : 1. Increase the height at which the router is kept. Its too low now.
2. Ditch the ADSL router for a ADSL modem + router. The 856 kept hanging periodically.
Looks like a job for the N13 or you could go with the tp-link W8961 which is adsl router with better range, close to N13.
 
@blr_p I dont think they plan to change the router now - They have 2G activated on their cell phones and use that all the time - even though that is akin to getting more RF exposure compared to WiFi :banghead:

As for the 20 MHz channel - right now cannot use the 40MHz option due to an issue with DD-WRT. Will be reverting it to stock today.

My loyal N13 will stay with me only - Have no plans to barter it :p

The clients were a new VAIO running 8.1 Preview and my trusty (and sometimes not so trusty :p) Pantech Burst - CM10.

Also tried configuring the 740N as a repeater - could not get it to work as did not know what WiFi security was on the binatone.

And finally - the problem was 2 faced - the binatone seemed to hang every 1~2 hours. Also, there was some issues with the telephone line - the log kept saying


CHAP: login to remote failed; please check user/pswd
Call drop because echo reply not received in time

Guess its just the rains.


Values: Downstream,Upstream
SNR Margin:12.7,35.7db
Line Attenuation:34.4,19.7db
Data Rate:2048,505kbps
Max Rate:7908,2237kbps
POWER:15.6,11.9dbm
CRC:47,0,
 
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Since you said the only options they have are either MTNL or Hathway then the W898 is a better choice then the w8961 as it can work with either thx to its 'ewan' feature. Plus it will even work with 3G. Assuming router is placed near a window that means it will get better 3G reception than phones inside.

His loyal N13 ? already you want to dump it for something else :p
It has a problem, nobody knows what that problem is.
Take the N13 over and see whether you get an acceptable signal in the 2nd room. If so then the tp-link will be good.

Come to think of it how does the 740N compare with the N13 for range ? since you have both.

The Vaio should see the 40Mhz when operational on the tp-link, actually doesn't the binatone do 40Mhz ? Your pantech won't register it though but that does not mean it won't benefit.

See if you can set to g.dmt only on the binatone, that will help with disconnects. Though this will limit speeds to ~2.5Mbs.
 
They wont change the router now - maybe later. They may have a 3G stick - did not see one. They are on 2G networks - Loop.

I know about the N13 - but I really do not have the time to tinker around. And I cant take it with me either.

The 740 vs the n13 - the range of the N13 seems better. Will check that out.

The binatone does 150 according to MTNL. However, it uses WPA and TKIP ~ guessing, so maybe the speeds are lesser - readup that TKIP slows down the speeds.

Cant change anything on the router - its not mine to play with. My idea was to leave it as is and use a secondary router to check - and the 740N is better. Will be putting stock on the 740N and configuring as a repeater - could not get wireless bridging to work - but then again, I did not know the encryption - AES, TKIP or a mix. It was saying WPA PSK only.
 
The binatone does 150 according to MTNL. However, it uses WPA and TKIP ~ guessing, so maybe the speeds are lesser - readup that TKIP slows down the speeds.



It does, just as bad as WEP.

but if the binatone is a N150 it should allow 40Mhz operation. What i mean is you should see a link speed greater than 72Mbs. You could always temporarily test without encryption to see if there is a difference.
 
AFAIK, the speed difference is because of the way TKIP is - software driven while AES is hardware driven.

Link speed : 54Mbps :shocker:

Channel is 20/40MHz. Mode is b+g+n. Guess its using TKIP.
 
@blr_p As mentioned - I do not want to tinker with it - its not mine. Its using WPA PSK with TKIP - confirmed it. That would explain the 54Mbps speeds.

Now - about the range - Flashed the router back to TP-Link stock and upgraded to a newer firmware. Got WDS Repeater mode working. Good speeds. Now and then, the MTNL net goes down - but now range is a beaut for the full house. It took me several tries to get it working, but eventually its working.

The main things for making a TP-Link router into a WDS repeater:

Note : for the instructions below, router means the TP Link router you plan to configure as a repeater. the main router is the one provided by your service provider.

1. Wired connection to the router a must. You must also know the SSID and BSSID and wifi channel values of the main router; also the password.
2. Set the IP address of the router to one which is in the similar range of the main. Say the main router gives out a DHCP IP of 192.168.1.1 and the TP Link is 192.168.0.1 - change the 0.1 to 1.X, where X can be between 2-254. Ideally, make it 192.168.1.2 or any unused IP.
3. Reboot router. Change DHCP settings to disabled. reboot again.
4. Now set a manual IP for your machine - say 192.168.1.3 - do not use an ip already allocated.
5. Goto wireless settings, select the WDS repeater option, Enter the SSID and BSSID - the survey thing was broken - showed blank most of the time and unknown BSSID otherwise. Used an Android app to get the BSSID of the main router and entered it - also the SSID and password. Select type of wifi security and enter the password too.
6. If the repeater does not still work - check channel settings and change it to the one on the main router. reboot - should be working.

Shall spruce this up a bit later.

EDIT : Better to set the channel on the main router to a specific one and do the same on the repeater as well. Kept having issues when I had to restart the main router - and both would not connect. Since I did not want to tinker with the MTNL router - stopped the repeater and just used it as is.

I shall add screenshots later on, maybe today itsel.
 
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As promised - will be adding the screenshots in sometime. However, will also be selling it soon as apparently for WDS, Atheros and Ralink dont work too well in WPA2 mode - you need to use WPA/WEP - Not my idea of security. Bloody hell.

Can someone post screenshots of the DHCP page of any other router - say MTNL - so that I can use that? I dont want to put DD-WRT screenshots :p
 
Just to add here, TP-Link 740N on OpenWrt supports 150Mbps WiFi (40Hz) flawlessly.
I'd recommend it over stock or DD-WRT.
Been using it on my MTNL connection for the last year or so (router is on 24x7)
 
The main purpose of this purchase was to replace a friend's Belkin which had range issues - seemed like the router was dying. However, all of a sudden it started working well without any disconnects.

As for OpenWRT - Have you been able to use it as a repeater? Thats my main purpose - It does not work with my N13 - else I am doing something wrong.
 
As promised - will be adding the screenshots in sometime. However, will also be selling it soon as apparently for WDS, Atheros and Ralink dont work too well in WPA2 mode - you need to use WPA/WEP - Not my idea of security. Bloody hell.
This is vendor specific thing, some routers will only allow WDS with WEP. Others allow WPA & better.

This is why its recommended to use like with like when repeating because WDS isn't even a standard but more a vendor specific implementation. Therefore there is no obligation for router vendors to make their devices inter-operate at all. If it works well good for you otherwise....

Chipset does not plays a role here at all simply because a router does not get to choose its clients. It must operate with all and can do so because it & the client conforms to an accepted wifi std.

But repeating is more vendor specific, to do with firmware which has its own protocols for WDS so like understands like. Does not mean its impossible to get router configured as repeaters to inter-operate just fiddly & time consuming. Until you figure out the magic code if it even exists.

In theory a 3rd party fw, flashed on both router & repeater would not have this problem. In theory. As you said WPA2 is implemented in hardware so if its not there then you ain't going to have it. WPA is the best you're left it in that case.

cranky mentioned he had to keep rebooting his N13 repeater every few days - is this a symptom of this problem?
Think he was using the N13 to repeat his WNDR3700. He never figured out a solution.

The main purpose of this purchase was to replace a friend's Belkin which had range issues - seemed like the router was dying. However, all of a sudden it started working well without any disconnects.
Belkin ? i thought the main router was a Binatone. And you were using the tp-link to repeat the binatone.

Better to set the channel on the main router to a specific one and do the same on the repeater as well. Kept having issues when I had to restart the main router - and both would not connect. Since I did not want to tinker with the MTNL router - stopped the repeater and just used it as is.
Auto channel means the router & the repeater try not to interfere with each other and pick channels to avoid each other :D
 
@Crazy_Eddy Maybe. Getting the 740N working as repeater with DD-WRT was a failure - as a basic repeater, not WDS - only got it working as WDS with the stock firmware. So would say that firmware matters maybe chipset does as mentioned in the DD-WRT wiki. And since I did not want to touch the Binatone - could not figure out what the issue was with the dropouts.

I agree with @blr_p - the magic code was when I set a fixed channel and did all the steps - worked flawlessly. It took more time to access the pages - but no issues of signal dropouts. As for the Binatone - worked with WPA but TKIP!
 
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The original intent for getting this was for a friend - planned to set this and the Dockstar there for him as a NAS device. He had a Belkin. The Binatone was just because I had the 740N and had time to kill - and the fact that I was the only guy using the net - so even if it goes down a bit - not a botheration. Learnt quite a bit about MTNL modems. In a few words, crap, unreliable, and heat up pretty fast.

As for the autochannel thingy - did not work - but then I had not set it initially, but only when was explictly mentioned. Later on, might flash the 740N to DD-WRT and OpenWRT and check it out.
 
Both seemed to be using 5dBi antennas - since they looked the same and the TP-Link box has very clearly mentioned that it has a 5dBi antenna for extra long range.

On the location - the 740N is kept on a slightly higher surface than the 856 - the positions cannot be changed as there is no space. The layout of the house is a box style with one room opening into the other - there are three rooms in total and the router is in the corner of room 1 and the laptop and mobile were on the same side, but the last room.

Range - Last room : the signal strength of the 856 was lesser than -90dBm; so no connectivity, while the 740N was about ~ -80 to -90 dBm.
First room : 856 was between -60 to -70 dBm while for the 740N it was -40 to -50 dBm.

In short : the binatone is good enough for two rooms/1 wall. With two walls and obstructions, its useless.

This sounds like a train like apartment with each room being the coaches.

If the binatones antennas are removable, a directional antenna would provide better coverage than an omni without the need for a repeater.
 
This sounds like a train like apartment with each room being the coaches.

If the binatones antennas are removable, a directional antenna would provide better coverage than an omni without the need for a repeater.


Sort of. Its quite an old building, and is going to undergo redevelopment.

None of the antennas are removable.
 
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