Need help in buying an Inverter - urgent

princeoo7

On a Journey called Life :P
Adept
Jun 10, 2010
1,107
37
61
Mumbai
I have an urgent requirement for buying an inverter.

3 fans, 4 led bulb, 2 led tubelight, 2 WiFi, 1 laptop, 1 32 inch IPS 2k monitor, 2-3 mobile charges. That's it for now.

Majority of the time laptop, display and 1 fan will be running.

8 to 10 hrs of backup is what I am looking at.

Will a 2.5 kVA or 3.5 kVA be effective for this ?

What model are best to buy and for now I will not be going for more than one battery. Will add if more if power cut increases.


Please suggest me what to go for. Also if your personal experience will be great as a comment to
 

puns

Well-Known Member
Section Mod
Mar 24, 2005
1,273
352
173
38
New Delhi
Use this and add number of hours backup you need. As suggested earlier, calculate and if you need 2 batteries, buy both together rather than 1 now and 1 later
 

Arun.P

Well-Known Member
Adept
Jul 24, 2007
1,654
63
137
29
Chennai
the 800 va or 1 kva can do the job as u need to invest more battery 2 150 ah
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
5,902
1,252
301
What model are best to buy and for now I will not be going for more than one battery. Will add if more if power cut increases.
Wish inverter companies would offer this option. But as it stands the number of batteries they support is fixed. You have to choose a model with the right number of batteries based on your requirement BEFORE you buy a model.

In any case adding batteries is not recommended as all batteries should be of the same age. So you would have to replace older ones with new.
 

princeoo7

On a Journey called Life :P
Adept
Jun 10, 2010
1,107
37
61
Mumbai
Currently my budget is low and in future I might need 4 to 6 batteries that's why I was planning to go for 2.5 to 3.5 kVa as it's 3-4 k different and future proof. But I have no idea about batteries. 25 to 35 k is what I am looking to spend at max. So battery will be 1 or 2 at max at the moment I suppose. Later on when money rolls I can buy new batteries as required.

For now my primary goal is laptop and 32" IPS 2k monitor for atleast 10 hrs. If possible a fan and led bulb. Reset all is optional. As it's rainy season.
 

vaalkai

Active Member
Disciple
Nov 22, 2017
92
35
31
The way i understand it, higher capacity UPS require a higher DC voltage for better efficiency, like 2KVA consumer UPS generally requires 24V, some commercial UPS can require even 96V, generally higher the input DC voltage higher the efficiency of conversion. To get this voltage you need to connect the batteries in series, so it doesnt necessarily increase the backup time. If your UPS is a 24V system then even though it uses two batteries the back up time will not be twice that of a 12 V UPS. For more back up time you have to connect the batteries in parallel, if you connect two batteries to a 12V ups then it will give higher back up time. But the batteries have to be matched, else it opens a lot of other problems.
So in your case you can buy a 24V system now with two batteries, and then when you want to expand sell the current batteries, get 4 new batteries, connect the two set of batteries in parallel (two 24v in parallel).
People can correct me if i am wrong.
 
Last edited:

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
5,902
1,252
301
3 fans, 4 led bulb, 2 led tubelight, 2 WiFi, 1 laptop, 1 32 inch IPS 2k monitor, 2-3 mobile charges. That's it for now.
Call it 500W

Majority of the time laptop, display and 1 fan will be running.
Call it 200 - 250W

8 to 10 hrs of backup is what I am looking at.
See calculation for expected run time here

With 2 x C20 in series for 500W you can expect 5-6h.

With 250W load, you can expect, 12+h

Will a 2.5 kVA or 3.5 kVA be effective for this ?
The Zelio 1700 would work.


What model are best to buy and for now I will not be going for more than one battery. Will add if more if power cut increases.
They have a one battery model too


But then your run times will reduce.

Keep in mind that these Zelio's have a wifi connect feature with an app on your phone. Other Zelios do not have that wifi feature.
Post automatically merged:

Currently my budget is low and in future I might need 4 to 6 batteries that's why I was planning to go for 2.5 to 3.5 kVa as it's 3-4 k different and future proof. But I have no idea about batteries. 25 to 35 k is what I am looking to spend at max. So battery will be 1 or 2 at max at the moment I suppose. Later on when money rolls I can buy new batteries as required.

For now my primary goal is laptop and 32" IPS 2k monitor for atleast 10 hrs. If possible a fan and led bulb. Reset all is optional. As it's rainy season.
You should be calculating for the hot season. As that is your max requirement.

You will not be able to add batteries later. There is the cruze model from Luminous that can take 2,3 or 4 batteries but you have to fix the number of batteries and cannot change it after.

Now it is possible to parallel batteries. So for a 1 battery setup, you can parallel 2 batteries and it will work. Double the Ah's while keeping voltage the same. The problem is the batteries will not be balanced. The UPS by luminous does not offer any equlisation or balancing feature. So you will have to use something else. On top of this. An older battery will be pushed harder by the newer batter and will cause a premature failure. If you decide to add more batteries you will have to replace the old one and get a new one in addition to getting more batteries.

From what i can see your load requirement isn't high. Rather It's backup time you want flexibility with.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: puns

princeoo7

On a Journey called Life :P
Adept
Jun 10, 2010
1,107
37
61
Mumbai
Call it 500W


Call it 200 - 250W


See calculation for expected run time here

With 2 x C20 in series for 500W you can expect 5-6h.

With 250W load, you can expect, 12+h


The Zelio 1700 would work.



They have a one battery model too


But then your run times will reduce.

Keep in mind that these Zelio's have a wifi connect feature with an app on your phone. Other Zelios do not have that wifi feature.
Post automatically merged:


You should be calculating for the hot season. As that is your max requirement.

You will not be able to add batteries later. There is the cruze model from Luminous that can take 2,3 or 4 batteries but you have to fix the number of batteries and cannot change it after.

Now it is possible to parallel batteries. So for a 1 battery setup, you can parallel 2 batteries and it will work. Double the Ah's while keeping voltage the same. The problem is the batteries will not be balanced. The UPS by luminous does not offer any equlisation or balancing feature. So you will have to use something else. On top of this. An older battery will be pushed harder by the newer batter and will cause a premature failure. If you decide to add more batteries you will have to replace the old one and get a new one in addition to getting more batteries.

From what i can see your load requirement isn't high. Rather It's backup time you want flexibility with.
Yes backup time is what I am looking at right now. But in future I will be using it for more than this appliances. If it's about battery then I will sell the old battery and buy new set as required. Like this also it around 3 yrs max. But inverter can stay longer, right ? So because of that I am confused.
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
5,902
1,252
301
Yes backup time is what I am looking at right now. But in future I will be using it for more than this appliances.
How much will your load be then ?

If it's about battery then I will sell the old battery and buy new set as required. Like this also it around 3 yrs max. But inverter can stay longer, right ? So because of that I am confused.
The cheapest 150Ah battery you can get is around 10k for the luminous red tall tubular. These have a full warranty of just 18 months. Three years they will be dead.

40k for 4 or 20k for 2

Better quality ie longer lasting will push each battery price to 15k possibly more if you want longer warranty.

Then add the cost of the inverter and any labour charges for installation.

If your budget is now is only 25 - 30k then a two battery setup is your only option and that is with the cheap Luminous Red.

Also keep in mind these batteries have to be recharged. So your electricity bill is going to rise.

The rise will be less for a 2 battery setup than a 4 battery one.

For 2 x 200AH that means 24V x 200AH = 2.4kW then you have to add losses, lets say 20% makes it around 2.6 units

If you flatten your batteries every day down to 10% then your bill will rise by 80 units per month.

With four batteries it will be similar too unless your load doubles in which case then your recharge costs will as well.
 
Last edited:

puns

Well-Known Member
Section Mod
Mar 24, 2005
1,273
352
173
38
New Delhi
How much will your load be then ?


The cheapest 200Ah battery you can get is around 10k for the luminous red tall tubular. These have a full warranty of just 18 months. Three years they will be dead.

40k for 4 or 20k for 2

Better quality ie longer lasting will push each battery price to 15k possibly more if you want longer warranty.
Cheap Batteries die in 3 years ? The better ones last how long ?
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
5,902
1,252
301
Cheap Batteries die in 3 years ? The better ones last how long ?
Twice as much, twice as long.

How long depends on depth of discharge. You discharge half as much then it lasts longer with either.

If you flatten them then what the warranty says and if you keep maintenance going. Otherwise less.
 
  • Like
Reactions: puns

princeoo7

On a Journey called Life :P
Adept
Jun 10, 2010
1,107
37
61
Mumbai
How much will your load be then ?


The cheapest 200Ah battery you can get is around 10k for the luminous red tall tubular. These have a full warranty of just 18 months. Three years they will be dead.

40k for 4 or 20k for 2

Better quality ie longer lasting will push each battery price to 15k possibly more if you want longer warranty.

Then add the cost of the inverter and any labour charges for installation.

If your budget is now is only 25 - 30k then a two battery setup is your only option and that is with the cheap Luminous Red.

Also keep in mind these batteries have to be recharged. So your electricity bill is going to rise.

The rise will be less for a 2 battery setup than a 4 battery one.

For 2 x 200AH that means 24V x 200AH = 2.4kW then you have to add losses, lets say 20% makes it around 2.6 units

If you flatten your batteries every day down to 10% then your bill will rise by 80 units per month.

With four batteries it will be similar too unless your load doubles in which case then your recharge costs will as well.
I mostly have power cut on Fridays from 10 am to 5/6 pm. Else on rare occasions in summer and winter. But rainy season is a different story. For example from last Monday we are having a hell of fun with light, aati he or kuch kaam chalu karo to turant jatihe. Most of the time it's when heavy wind or shower is there.

So my main usage is always in rainy season.

Load is only 1 laptop, 1 32 inch monitor, 2 fans, 2 WiFi, mobile charge, and in future may be a machine learning desktop setup.

But the ML is a long short goal right now rest, may be one fan optional.

My target is longer battery backup and fast charging.
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
5,902
1,252
301
I mostly have power cut on Fridays from 10 am to 5/6 pm. Else on rare occasions in summer and winter. But rainy season is a different story. For example from last Monday we are having a hell of fun with light, aati he or kuch kaam chalu karo to turant jatihe. Most of the time it's when heavy wind or shower is there.

So my main usage is always in rainy season.
You might want to look into surge suppressors to protect against lightning as well. Its normal for the lights to go out during storms due to lightning.

One at the point where your power enters the home and at the point where you plug equipment.

Load is only 1 laptop, 1 32 inch monitor, 2 fans, 2 WiFi, mobile charge, and in future may be a machine learning desktop setup.

But the ML is a long short goal right now rest, may be one fan optional.

My target is longer battery backup and fast charging.
Desktop will take more power. You don't have enough budget for a four battery setup.

Fast charging is not possible with lead acid. To get a battery back to full from 20% will take 8h+ possibly longer.
 

princeoo7

On a Journey called Life :P
Adept
Jun 10, 2010
1,107
37
61
Mumbai
I went for a quotation and got the following:

1) Swastik 900va inverter - ₹8,000/-
2) exite battery 180ah - ₹ 21,000/-
3) exite battery 200ah - ₹ 23, 637/-

₹3,000 off if inverter and battery bought together.

Then,

1) luminous up 1150 - ₹ 8,000/-
2) luminous 200ah - ₹ 18,000/-


Now what should I go for ???
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
5,902
1,252
301
I went for a quotation and got the following:

1) Swastik 900va inverter - ₹8,000/-
2) exite battery 180ah - ₹ 21,000/-
3) exite battery 200ah - ₹ 23, 637/-

₹3,000 off if inverter and battery bought together.
which swastik is this ? i don't see a 900VA model in their website

Also those exide prices seem high. Can you clarify which model of exide it is.

In bangalore these are the prices i get. Battery not older than 3-4 months. Best exide in that list is the invatubular 200AH IT750. 3.5 years warranty. Solar ones come with 5yrs but you need to have a solar panel attached otherwise no warranty,


Then,

1) luminous up 1150 - ₹ 8,000/-
2) luminous 200ah - ₹ 18,000/-


Now what should I go for ???
You have chosen one battery setups. This will give you 8h back up with your 200-250W load. Half that with your full load. So you will have to switch things off if you want more backup

Which company gets you better service in your area ? swastik or luminous

If ever there is a problem that needs a warranty claim, it helps if both inverter & battery are from the same company otherwise one blames the other. Though if you are knowledgeable about maintenance and keep logs this should not be a problem.
 
Last edited:

6pack

Well-Known Member
ex-Mod
Sep 19, 2005
7,519
1,532
302
Those rates are too high. Luminous 150AH battery even with gst is around 13k. Luminous UPS is just 4k - 5k or so. Max to max with a 150AH battery, you shouldn't pay more than 17-18k. Tubular batteries have 3 years warranty but last close to 6 years. My Luminous battery of 2 (or 3) years is still going strong and is better built than the Exide battery i had before. Exide is for name only now. No quality control in their products.

You can buy the UPS and batteries separately too. No one is going to give any problem with warranty since they only care about the AMC money.

I have a 850VA ups and it gives me backup of close to 14+ hrs only because I've reduced all the load to minimum below 200W at all times. For 250W load, you should ideally get a 1.5KVA UPS and 2 batteries. With one battery your 900VA ups will be at 50% load at all times and the battery will give at most 4hrs backup and take 12+ hours to fully recover. I've seen my 150AH battery take close to 16-18 hours to charge completely once it got deep discharged. And this is due to constant load shedding which didn't allow the battery to charge completely in one shot. If you have limited budget, then see to it that the load on UPS is minimum and only run a fan and laptop on it to get max backup. A normal ceiling fan take 65W load, so you can easily see how much stuff electrical appliances use energy once you go on inverter power. If you have too much load shedding like my area, better to invest in a bldc fan which takes less than 30W at full speed. Just switching to bldc fan increased backup life of my battery a lot during power cuts.

Load is only 1 laptop, 1 32 inch monitor, 2 fans, 2 WiFi, mobile charge

My load is the same. If you think of an NUC as a laptop, I run an NUC, 32" LED tv, 1 wifi router, one bldc fan and 2 x 8W led lights on my setup. Gives 14+ hrs backup if not using the tv and nuc. TV is 50W load, NUC is 15W load. Wifi router is 5W, phone chargers are like 70Watts. Most phone chargers have an amp rating of 0.3A to 0.5A on them. 0.3 x 230 = 69W.
 
Last edited:

princeoo7

On a Journey called Life :P
Adept
Jun 10, 2010
1,107
37
61
Mumbai
Those rates are too high. Luminous 150AH battery even with gst is around 13k. Luminous UPS is just 4k - 5k or so. Max to max with a 150AH battery, you shouldn't pay more than 17-18k. Tubular batteries have 3 years warranty but last close to 6 years. My Luminous battery of 2 (or 3) years is still going strong and is better built than the Exide battery i had before. Exide is for name only now. No quality control in their products.

You can buy the UPS and batteries separately too. No one is going to give any problem with warranty since they only care about the AMC money.

I have a 850VA ups and it gives me backup of close to 12-14 hrs only because I've reduced all the load to minimum below 200W at all times. For 250W load, you should ideally get a 1.5KVA UPS and 2 batteries. With one battery your 900VA ups will be at 50% load at all times and the battery will give at most 4hrs backup and take 12+ hours to fully recover. I've seen my 150AH battery take close to 16-18 hours to charge completely once it got deep discharged. And this is due to constant load shedding which didn't allow the battery to charge completely in one shot. If you have limited budget, then see to it that the load on UPS is minimum and only run a fan and laptop on it to get max backup. A normal ceiling fan take 65W load, so you can easily see how much stuff electrical appliances use energy once you go on inverter power. If you have too much load shedding like my area, better to invest in a bldc fan which takes less than 30W at full speed. Just switching to bldc fan increased backup life of my battery a lot during power cuts.

Load is only 1 laptop, 1 32 inch monitor, 2 fans, 2 WiFi, mobile charge

My load is the same. If you think of an NUC as a laptop, I run an NUC, 32" LED tv, 1 wifi router, one bldc fan and 2 x 8W led lights on my setup. Gives 14-16hrs backup if not using the tv and nuc. TV is 50W load, NUC is 15W load. Wifi router is 5W, phone chargers are like 70Watts. Most phone chargers have an amp rating of 0.3A to 0.5A on them. 0.3 x 230 = 69W.
I was on the luminous site and saw the zelio 1100 + luminous 220aH ( 60 month ) warranty. Form the calculator in their site my total load will be around 330 watt. So what do you thing, is the above set up good ?
 

6pack

Well-Known Member
ex-Mod
Sep 19, 2005
7,519
1,532
302
I was on the luminous site and saw the zelio 1100 + luminous 220aH ( 60 month ) warranty. Form the calculator in their site my total load will be around 330 watt. So what do you thing, is the above set up good ?
Setup is good if you use power saving appliances like i mentioned. most of the battery will be used by the fans. Not laptop or tv. I say get this and if possible just change the most used fans in house in future when you want, to a bldc fan. It will give longer backup times. Even the battery will charge faster since it wont be discharged a lot. Just one bldc fan is around 3K.
 

princeoo7

On a Journey called Life :P
Adept
Jun 10, 2010
1,107
37
61
Mumbai
Setup is good if you use power saving appliances like i mentioned. most of the battery will be used by the fans. Not laptop or tv. I say get this and if possible just change the most used fans in house in future when you want, to a bldc fan. It will give longer backup times. Even the battery will charge faster since it wont be discharged a lot. Just one bldc fan is around 3K.
I am more worried about the laptop and 32 inch IPS screen, WiFi router and fibre setup rest it optional. In current situation 8 - 10 hrs backup is my target. On Friday it's mostly gone. Reset of the time in rainy season some what 6-7 hrs.