Net Neutrality in Danger! We should do something about this

blr_p said:
keep the net free from these regulations and watch what happens.
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The net in India has so far been largely free of these regulations and we ARE seeing what happens - as a consumer it's not looking good. If the current system was functioning as intended then why are we discussing net neutrality?
 
Crapmypants said:
The net in India has so far been largely free of these regulations and we ARE seeing what happens - as a consumer it's not looking good. If the current system was functioning as intended then why are we discussing net neutrality?
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Net neutrality is not being attacked because of a need. It is being attacked because of greed of the current telecom companies. They are seeing potential profit in charging money from apps and websites, besides charging from the consumers too. Profit from both the ends you see. In all probability, this will make Internet costlier in our country (within 2-3 years). Not better.
 
Fuc* trai. They could have just asked questions with options to select. If they wanted people's view they could have simply taken a survey with options like. Do you agree or select from following. Instead they Asked questions that even a 12th standard average boy might not be able to answer. And that group do use the net a lot.

First rule of a survey is that it shouldn't be ambiguous, and should be easy to understand for all. Shouldn't take much time and if there are more number of questions then they should contain options to select.

Even after all of that. People don't get replies for surveys.
I can see they didn't want everbody to answer the question except the intellectuals. But, if that was the case then they shouldn't have put forward the term of maximum number of people.

I can see that nothing would come out of this. And the common public is going to loose this time. Nothing can be done.

And yes before you say do this and that. I have already signed the petetion. Left 1 star for flipkart on android with net neutrality thing. And shared the petition on facebook.
 
Crapmypants said:
The net in India has so far been largely free of these regulations and we ARE seeing what happens - as a consumer it's not looking good. If the current system was functioning as intended then why are we discussing net neutrality?
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govt decided to impose taxes so ISP's pass on the cost to the customer. remember that thread that went on about 30% increase.

if you introduce more regulations you will get more of the same. in fact it will be worse because now it will get crowded and the incentive to increase capacity just became smaller. Regulate the ISPs and they will pass on the favour.

the system isn't improving because the govt isn't giving incentives. the telcos laid lines and are waiting to realise their ROI's. I would say 2009 is when it dawned on them that investing more was a waste. So we've had 5 years of slow growth in infrastructure and a very fast uptake in customers. You would think this would spur the telcos more but it has not. On top of that there are disruptive technologies coming in. their outlays are in the big numbers, would you bet such large sums if the atmosphere was negative ? this is the wrong thing to be asking at the wrong time.

The last time i felt that way was back in 2005 when Dayanidhi Maran started making big noises. mobile certainly picked up. airtel along with many others started laying lines.

if this govt can provide a boost remains to be seen. digital india is a big vision. we're waiting on the details. hang tight.
 
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am not sure if I am missing something here but I fail to see why this is a big issue
This is quite Unlike the previous try by Airtel to charge differential rates for VoIP (which does a negative discrimination for a particular traffic class)

This on the other hand is just a technology provision to enable willing portals pick the tab on what would have been charged to the client otherwise (the most direct analogy being a toll -free 1800 number)
At no point does it impinge on a user's choice to use a full fledged paid package

If at all, it enables the fence sitters on the "Should I buy a data pack on my mobile" line try mobile data out for free albeit in a limited way
 
superczar said:
If at all, it enables the fence sitters on the "Should I buy a data pack on my mobile" line try mobile data out for free albeit in a limited way
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When a person starts experiencing free internet.. nothing really comes for free.
The apps like fk will first pay airtel to provide the content for free to its customers. After few months, when other apps wont be allowed in this sphere due to the exclusive deals, apps like fk will have established a monopoly. Then they start passing on the charges incurred to the customers via increased rates on their store/shipping for eg.

The casualty mainly will be small time/start ups or any business entity which does not have the funds to get onboard with the stupid VIP culture Zero plan. Secondly, as a prospective customer, i wont be able to visit other sites and check if i can get a better deal or not.

Airtel can infact throttle other sites as well, forcing people to purchase via its partners.

Also, this should shed some more light here: http://rashmiranjanpadhy.com/2015/04/12/airtel-kills-startups-and-innovation-a-real-story/

Those 1800 number are not the types where people call up to have a gala time. They are for e commerce purposes and directly concern with bringing in revenues for the firms.
 
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Spacescreamer said:
When a person starts experiencing free internet.. nothing really comes for free.
The apps like fk will first pay airtel to provide the content for free to its customers. After few months, when other apps wont be allowed in this sphere due to the exclusive deals, apps like fk will have established a monopoly. Then they start passing on the charges incurred to the customers via increased rates on their store/shipping for eg.
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Correction - Have some faith in a free market economy
Majority of paying customers will nonetheless have access to regular internet
It would be commercial harakiri for fk or anyone else who would charge more than the competition
In any case, the budget for this would be coming from their marketing budget

The casualty mainly will be small time/start ups or any business entity which does not have the funds to get onboard with the stupid VIP culture Zero plan. Secondly, as a prospective customer, i wont be able to visit other sites and check if i can get a better deal or not.
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Partially true around the first part
Not true for the majority of paying customers who would nonetheless run a price check on other portals via regular net access

Airtel can infact throttle other sites as well, forcing people to purchase via its partners.
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If and when they do that - That would be a true violation of net neutrality
Don't see it happening though anyway

Also, this should shed some more light here: http://rashmiranjanpadhy.com/2015/04/12/airtel-kills-startups-and-innovation-a-real-story/
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Quickly read through it, My subjective take on it is that it is also the Subjective opinion of one individual with mostly fallacious arguments

Those 1800 number are not the types where people call up to have a gala time. They are for e commerce purposes and directly concern with bringing in revenues for the firms.
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Really?
1800 numbers have been in existence from far before e-commerce even was a word !
A vast majority of toll free numbers are not related to e commerce in any way
And In any case, how is a toll free access to a phone(as an enabler to bring in revenues) any different from toll free access to a URL to bring in revenues
 
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If and when they do that - That would be a true violation of net neutrality
Don't see it happening though anyway
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Other do. Airtel has time and again tricked its customers and gone back on its words.
This is too big a thing to be even entertaining any thoughts of trusting Airtel with. They are the mkt players and with a dirty track record.

Frankly enough, why there be the need to put barriers/demarcate which sites are on a certain preferred list anyway? Slicing up the net is ridiculous to begin with.


Have some faith in a free market economy
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Why let the situation reach that point? More so, living in India has only taught us too well what to expect when such a situation arrives. Things play out according to the script by influential

It ll be utterly naive to let this thing go through.



After seeing how Airtel works, nobody in their right minds will trust them. We have examples before us, comcast had tried similar stunts, and it ll be wise to learn from what has happened earlier. Airtel's track record only reinforces the 'faith' that they ll make double dipping a serious source of their income.

They have set all the idiotic trends and hampered growth in more than one ways. A huge slice of the population has had the experience first hand, and the general sentiment is not to go with decisions where they ll get to be the custodians of something as big as the internet. It has flourished due to the basic nature of its access - Anybody can get on with it.
There is no doubt that this move of Airtel is going to head which way.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/471247/net-neutralityindia-should-not-let.html

The worst thing policy makers could do to the network would be to allow telecom companies to mess with that," the editorial 'Global Threats to Net Neutrality' in the New York Times said.
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@Spacescreamer Lad, No one is expecting anyone to have faith in Airtel
The only point being that if they decide to play truant, no one expects anyone to stick with them (and that's why the free market reference in the previous post)
Tomorrow, Airtel decides to charge me 0 for their zero whatever portal but hikes up my regular plan by 25%, guess what, I switch to Idea with the same number(IIN jingles not withstanding :p)

If a FK decides to foot my bill for browsing their site, their call

In any case, my decision to buy my next pair of sneakers (or AirCon or laptop) is not going to hinge on whether the best deal was found on a free browsing session on FK or a paid (incidentally on one of the cheapest no-restrictions mobile data plans worldwide) session on Amazon/snapdeal

Isn't that exactly what the beauty of a free market economy is?
 
superczar said:
If a FK decides to foot my bill for browsing their site, their call
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Nothing comes for free dear friend. If money is exchanging hands in a scenario involving you, and you aint dealing with money in any capacity, then you are the product.

In any case, my decision to buy my next pair of sneakers (or AirCon or laptop) is not going to hinge on whether the best deal was found on a free browsing session on FK or a paid (incidentally on one of the cheapest no-restrictions mobile data plans worldwide) session on Amazon/snapdeal
Isn't that exactly what the beauty of a free market economy is?
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Surely the free mkt economy is beautiful, but how do i ensure that to happen when i have only one source of browsing the net owing to me being mobile or some other reason, and the provider is treating the internet as his heirloom?

I am paying the telecos for bringing the internet to my device. Not to see the internet how they want it to be.

You prolly have seen by now, the 3 basic principals associated with the concept of Net Neutrality. Along with many others, i recognize my understanding of the internet with those principals.
Internet isnt/wasnt meant to be sliced up like a commodity according to the wishes of the providers. The term providers itself is being twisted to mean organizers and that is where problem for many is arising.

If that stupid company wants to side with Google owned youtube, a company which supported NN in the US, or with FB.. which again supported NN in the US.. and is now observing double standards here in India, it is not too difficult to see that how a concept (be it Airtel Zero or any other form of violation of NN) which isnt correct is being buttressed by wrong type of backing.

So i can now access only youtube, but if the content is available on dailymotion, i'd be topping up my plan with more packs to watch the stuff? Reason: Providers turned organizers. Worse, they turned custodians?

As you said it is subjective, you are free to believe in free market thing, or that WHEN a violation happens THEN it ll be termed unfair and LATER can/should/will be addressed.

A good chunk of people dont agree with that sentiment, and that includes founder of the web as well.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/12/5...for-net-neutrality-on-internets-25th-birthday
 
I think the keyword here is positive discrimination
My view being that the idea of paying extra for nothing but only a few specific protocols is negative discrimination (buy extra data pack at higher rate for VoIP)

This however falls under a different bracket because it does not change the pay-regular-rates for Internet access model in any way
Thus this does not hold true
So i can now access only youtube, but if the content is available on dailymotion, i'd be topping up my plan with more packs to watch the stuff?
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It rather is that you can access dailymotion through your regular data plan - Thus your access model remains status quo

However, for a large number of users who may not have the budget for adding a data pack, they still get to access at least a part of the web for gratis - And that is positive discrimination per me

If however in the future, airtel does take it a step further and pushes rates for regular access to x-subisidize their zero charge portal, that per me would break the NN principles
 
How many people have read the consultation paper yet ?

also there is another which came out in sept - titledDelivering Broadband Quickly: What do we need to do? Very interesting read. See the comments from all major isps in the country. You will get to understand the headaches they have to go through. Airtels was particularly sobering but positive at the same time.

All i see are fear mongering slogans on youtube, much harder to inform :(
 
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Economics 101 - regulation is necessary to ENSURE a free and fair market.
To all those saying regulation is bad please tell me what would happen if airtel was in charge of your gas or water connection - pay to have a bath but get free unlimited hand washes!
Let me reiterate - access to the internet is done on a PUBLICLY OWNED MEDIUM.
If i rent a house and then invest money in painting the walls and redoing the tiles does that give me some special rights over and above the lease agreement?
If they are saying that they need to recover their investment then that's a flat out lie because ANY company will run a thorough cost analysis to see if it is profitable and only then proceed to lay down cables. if it turns out its not profitable then they screwed up their analysis or mismanaged the company asset. Neither of which is the consumers fault yet we are expected to pay?
As to "free" access to anything - be prepared to get blasted with ads/popups.

Please consider past experiences and you will see that isps have always opted for the short term/ fast buck option rather than investing in better quality or better support.
Simple e.g. - how many people posting here have been over-billed by their providers?
 
Crapmypants said:
Economics 101 - regulation is necessary to ENSURE a free and fair market.
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Average of 7 ISP's per circle fair enough for you ? elsewhere its like 4.

To all those saying regulation is bad please tell me what would happen if airtel was in charge of your gas or water connection - pay to have a bath but get free unlimited hand washes!
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What's wrong with the current situation ? read the consultation papers referred above. how much the govt is responsible.

Let me reiterate - access to the internet is done on a PUBLICLY OWNED MEDIUM.
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Show me where this is defined in law.

If they are saying that they need to recover their investment then that's a flat out lie because ANY company will run a thorough cost analysis to see if it is profitable and only then proceed to lay down cables. if it turns out its not profitable then they screwed up their analysis or mismanaged the company asset. Neither of which is the consumers fault yet we are expected to pay?
As to "free" access to anything - be prepared to get blasted with ads/popups.
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Go read the comments as to the uncertainty involved by govt policy. What Modi is claiming on his trips abroad to foreign investors to attract more investment.

Please consider past experiences and you will see that isps have always opted for the short term/ fast buck option rather than investing in better quality or better support.
Simple e.g. - how many people posting here have been over-billed by their providers?
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please read the comments and the consultation paper(s) to know the picture.
 
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