novice:which web programming language to learn?

sunbiz_3000

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I teach programming to a lot of students as well as handle 2-3 web app projects/2-3 desktop apps at a time. From my experience, new developers do miss a lot of things when they start programming in C++. Something like Java/C->pointers really teaches them basics pretty well!! As for Ruby, I have personally seen 10th std students learn Ruby from scratch and implement a RoR blog in less than a week (4 days to be exact)...

But like I always say, "the language is only as good as the programmer!!" So it completely depends on the programmer's nature and outlook towards programming. I love all programming languages and I use each one of those depending on the project requirement. But I just shared my experience on new programmers!!
 

hammerhead

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It is better to start with C and get a hang of basic data structures in C. But when your applications get bigger you eventually will have to move to cpp (oops and all). I personally like C++ better, but like sunbiz said "the language is only as good as the programmer!!"
 

lounge

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i am getting your point.. everyone's.. so, as i am beginning from scratch, i should start with C.. there is a book "let us C" i have started reading.. its fun n easy..

simultaneously, i have started learning PHP.. i will definitely try ruby now. after listening so many good things about ruby and its combination with java.(if i am correct.) and after PHP, i shall then ask you guys again.. for i plan to go for java ...i have enquired about java supported server yesterday, my current hosting provider godaddy provides JVM support with linux server free.. hurray!! also Ruby, ROR, perl and python are supported.. these services are provided in the default package..

so i guess, for me right now, server issue is not there.. i just need to learn n learn.. so i am going C => php => java. although, i sometimes think to replace my php choice with asp.net.. will that be a wise thing to do??
 

hammerhead

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You can shift from C-> php -> asp.net (if programming in C#), but java might get little difficult if you learn java beans, struts, jsf and all. Take your time on c and php and dont rush into java. Once you start java DO IT WELL, really well. Java is an entirly different universe.
 

bosky101

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Having a strong foundation in c , c++ is the best scenario.

Regardless of the above, your decision to go foe web based or older programming language will make a lot of difference.

java, .net are safe bets if you can call them that... java however does get an edge in the enterprise space , open sourse implementations, and lot of high performance scientific apps when not going for C,C++ , R or D - would go for java or python. google infact only hires people who work on either c,c++ or java/python for their s/w engineer role.

yahoo on the other hand works on PHP , flash/flex, and ruby a lot , Yahoo maintains and hired the creators of PHP . The creator of python and lot of java gurus are over at google .

python , perl, and ruby are very rewarding ,throughout your life.

PHP is something you can pick up easily, but dont let that fool you . In fact i've created this thread just to emphasize how some of the biggest running sites out there use PHP . 8 )

Maybe we can have other threads similiarly for other languages. At the end of the day, making scalable programs - be it java / c / erlang / mysql or php - is the key to a succesful career that will take you faaaaaaaaar...... 8 )
 

lounge

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wow.. thats revealing & relieving.. well, i have read a lot of good things about php on various forums.. but as they say.. "object oriented" programming.. although php5 integrates it.. but how far has php scored in this area? cos, oop shall be and is the way of web now.. isn't? but i again do not know, how much equipped php is in this areas.. well, whatsoever be the scene, i need to start from from scratch.. so, even php shall make my fundamentals strong as far programming as a whole is concerned(i guess) thats y i am learning it these days without a second thought.. but good to hear that php is still being used not just by masses but classes as well.. target clients, website structure, kind of information requests - should be also a criterion to select a suitable language.. whereas, web development is concerned.. its an unending process of learning.. digging deep.. as they say" ignorance is not bliss in web development"
 

Arya

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i sometimes think to replace my php choice with asp.net.. will that be a wise thing to do
It won't take long for you to switch over in case you want to. its very easy actually.

although php5 integrates it.. but how far has php scored in this area
php5 sure eases up lotsa work. A year back when i just started with it, wrote one QueryBuilder class, I never had to write a single query for the whole project. Clean code, reduces effort, powerful. As bosky pointed out in other thread, php can be used for small as well as big sites. Lots of advantages to ignore it.
 

lokeshv

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+1 for php,ease of use, easy to learn ..n when u know basic for web apps, then it wont be hard to swithc to other langs.
 

sandy453

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google has uesd a combination of AJAX ,javascript and c in the backend fort gmail :p.
In web arena ,Ajax is the hottest n happening technology as of present.

Did anybody forget to mention javascript.:p
At the end of the day, making scalable programs - be it java / c / erlang / mysql or php - is the key to a succesful career that will take you faaaaaaaaar...... 8 )
well said.+1 to that.
 

lounge

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so in short.. one has to be good programmer first of all.. as my work requirement is small and medium business web solutions.. i guess a good combination of php, ajax, js and flash capabilities shall be great to start.. later on as arya & lokeshv said. switching to other languages like .net shall not be that difficult.. also, i must say this again.. luckily my hosting provider provides hosting for almost all the currently hot languages being used over web.. namely . linux based hosting with mysql - compatible with coldfusion, ror, ruby, python, perl, java, php etc.. so, quite good range to choose from.. so,hosting issue is not the reason anymore to narrow language choice.. :)
 

lokeshv

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n in php its easy to find work on net... freelancing sites are full of small projects in php, and you always learn more while working on actual projects.

so i guess in php you will start working on actual projects very soon.
 

VaRz

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ehm, first you should start from basic HTML and JavaScript and then u can also learn CGI and Pearl if you want to make core projects
 

Arya

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VaRz said:
ehm, first you should start from basic HTML and JavaScript and then u can also learn CGI and Pearl if you want to make core projects
I think he knows his basics and is looking beyond that. nobody uses CGI anymore, cgi-perl would have been a good combo 10 years back....not anymore
 

devp24

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PHP is a simple language to learn and work on...if you are looking for freelancing work or something you would be doing in your freetime, then you can go for PHP...but if you are looking to make a career into it, then I would recommend you to go for Java/JSP or DOT NET...i have worked on PHP and not many big companies work on PHP and also the salary hike is less compared to other languages....so later in your career when you would want to join some big company and relax, you will have very few options.

You will surely find a lot of PHP openings, but thos are with small or medium sized companies...not with companies like TCS, Infosys, EDS, Accenture...etc
 

lounge

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so later in your career when you would want to join some big company and relax, you will have very few options.
devp24.. thats a valid point.. and future safe learning should be and is desired.. but how would you see career as a freelancer web developer in india? well, market is huge for that matter.. and then array of choices of technologies as per the demand of the client.. ranging from complete flash sites to simple and static html sites..e-commerce sites to online forums.. i think each technology is good for a specific kind of requirement.. and employing a substitute technology for a specific web requirement shall bring a compromise with it.. for a freelancer web developer or more appropriately web entrepreneur.. learning each and every aspect - i.e. design, coding, content creation etc.. is relevant and inevitable.. so, i do not see an escape route but to learn slowly and steady all whats being employed these days in websites per se..

but the question is, is it possible? its maddening..
 

reef_d

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I agree with devp24. Many small companies will hire you if you know PHP. As for the bigger ones, it's better that you know JAVA. Most of my friends under training in the big companies have projects in Java. As for concepts, languages may not really make a difference but if you want to stick in the OO domain, i found Java easier to pick up that C++. If you're learning C++ remember to use the gcc compiler. Many novices make the mistake of following old Turbo C conventions
 

sunbiz_3000

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Arya said:
Every programmer has his own style so i wouldn't say that Mr. Torvalds is wrong in any way. In my opinion its the best stuff to learn. C++ is meant to ease things for you. C developers like to cling upon as if its still the 80s.

Ruby is a very good programming langauge, for person who has good experience in OO programming. Rails is an amazing framework. But tell me if someone started ruby from scratch and been anywhere in a week? Best way to learn OO is C++, nothing else!
Sorry, to dig this old post up...but found this interesting interview from Stroustrup here... Have fun reading the interview from the inventor of C++... Its a really good laugh!!