Oneplus One coming to India, can it kill Moto G and Xiaomi Mi3?

avi

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Another Chinese mobile phone maker planning to launch in India and its now confirmed. It was announced in Oneplus' Official Forum. Oneplus One (16GB) retails at 299USD, so expect its pricing to be around 17,000 - 18,000 INR. It runs a heavily customized Cyanogen custom ROM and its so blazing fast, it already beats Nexus 5. There is no tentative announcement date, yet.

Key config:
Display - 5.50-inch, LTPS LCD, Corning Gorilla Glass 3
Resolution - 1080x1920 pixels (~401 ppi pixel density)
Rear Camera - 13-megapixel (4128 x 3096 pixels)
Front Camera - 5-megapixel
Chipset - Qualcomm MSM8974AC Snapdragon 801
Processor - Quad-core 2.5 GHz Krait 400
GPU - Adreno 330
RAM - 3GB
OS - CyanogenMod 11S
Storage - 16GB
Battery capacity - 3100mAh

Official page: http://oneplus.net/one
CM page: https://cyngn.com/products/oneplusone/
Engadget review: http://www.engadget.com/products/oneplus/one/
 
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blr_p

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ok, so first question to answer is who & what are these Chinese vendors competing against. Gonna lump the others in with OPO.

I think its the midrange segment. anything from 15-30k. But there is a catch, they are virtually unknown and therefore people will be wary to put their money with them over estabilished brands. Yes, even micromax is considered established here. In some ways these chinese guys have it harder than moto or asus, both known brands. It's relatively easier to recommend an asus or moto than say any of the much higher speccd but not known chinese brands.

So the way to compete or at least get people to turn heads is to come in low, very low. Get people who bought on this forum and numerous others, basically your online lot to spread the word. Every time one satisfied buyer posts his experience or adequately defends means any number of people will read and the message goes viral.

The next thing these guys are up against is scaling up. They don't have the resources to produce as many numbers or the presence in local shops. If they are not there then people cannot hold these devices and unless they hear from someone else will be completely unaware of any of these devices. So that's a serious barrier to presence. I've yet to notice a single established player slash prices as a result of these recent Chinese entries. It's not just in India, but anywhere else but China as well. Early days. So does anyone see the established players changing their behaviour as a result of these chinese entries ?

Next is software, can amigo, miui or color os compete with the likes of timescape, sense, touchwiz and whatever lg calls their UI ? How mature is the software of these new entries. Might be light and in many ways promise more features but how complete is it. If their developers respond then when is the right time to go with these chinese phones ? at launch of six months after when many bugs will have been ironed out otherwise you're a paying beta tester.

Then there is support, if one can't even get to buy the phone how easy are spares to come by, applies with the other chinese vendors too. OPO is that affordable phone that you cannot buy and require an invite to spend your own money. Granted if they're going to open shop in India availability will be less of a concern.

OPO is being touted as a flagship killer. Is it ? it cannot compete with the latest crop, so how about last years range. M7, S4, Z, G2. Is OPO preferable over these. Depends on the price. If available the pricing is competitive but you will have to factor in the previous points into your decision.

What do you think ?
 

rdst_1

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ok, so first question to answer is who & what are these Chinese vendors competing against. Gonna lump the others in with OPO.

I think its the midrange segment. anything from 15-30k. But there is a catch, they are virtually unknown and therefore people will be wary to put their money with them over estabilished brands. Yes, even micromax is considered established here. In some ways these chinese guys have it harder than moto or asus, both known brands. It's relatively easier to recommend an asus or moto than say any of the much higher speccd but not known chinese brands.

So the way to compete or at least get people to turn heads is to come in low, very low. Get people who bought on this forum and numerous others, basically your online lot to spread the word. Every time one satisfied buyer posts his experience or adequately defends means any number of people will read and the message goes viral.

The next thing these guys are up against is scaling up. They don't have the resources to produce as many numbers or the presence in local shops. If they are not there then people cannot hold these devices and unless they hear from someone else will be completely unaware of any of these devices. So that's a serious barrier to presence. I've yet to notice a single established player slash prices as a result of these recent Chinese entries. It's not just in India, but anywhere else but China as well. Early days. So does anyone see the established players changing their behaviour as a result of these chinese entries ?

Next is software, can amigo, miui or color os compete with the likes of timescape, sense, touchwiz and whatever lg calls their UI ? How mature is the software of these new entries. Might be light and in many ways promise more features but how complete is it. If their developers respond then when is the right time to go with these chinese phones ? at launch of six months after when many bugs will have been ironed out otherwise you're a paying beta tester.

Then there is support, if one can't even get to buy the phone how easy are spares to come by, applies with the other chinese vendors too. OPO is that affordable phone that you cannot buy and require an invite to spend your own money. Granted if they're going to open shop in India availability will be less of a concern.

OPO is being touted as a flagship killer. Is it ? it cannot compete with the latest crop, so how about last years range. M7, S4, Z, G2. Is OPO preferable over these. Depends on the price. If available the pricing is competitive but you will have to factor in the previous points into your decision.

What do you think ?
OPO is actually a flagship killer. Know many people who own the phone and the phone is as good as the best phones out there right now. Those same people sold off their M8, G3 and the likes after getting the OPO. Add to that that a 64GB version is available for $350, it is definitely a wolf in disguise of a sheep. They only have themselves to blame for all the negative publicity they bought on themselves but that in no way takes any credit away from OPO being an awesome phone at an unbeatable price. I don't know about the reviews but what I am saying is all based on what actual users I know are saying about the phone. It is a bigger, better Nexus at an even better price.
 

blr_p

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a) its a 5.5 inch phone. Many can't handle that size.
b) can't put enough of them out there.

I think it has promise, but its still got some rough edges, if you don't mind that then cool. What i sense is the buzz around the product is a little bit over the top and i'm starting to hear people resent the fact they have to get an invite to buy just this phone. It's a CM phone and Kondik's big break. This is introducing CM to the masses at affordable prices, is this the future when you say flagship killer. people think prices of flagships will come down to these levels.The established players all of them have to drop the ball and in effect lose their head start. I will start to believe it when they think they have to compete.

I can see the threads coming up here in the next few months, budget 10k, which phone to go for (mid range chinese) vs established entry level. How to answer it. Nobody knows what the support situation is like and unless you're real unlucky nothing will happen for a year. And that means these phones are not suitable or risky as a daily driver. They are for people who already have secondary phones. How cheap do the chinese look now.

On a different angle i'm wondering whether the entry of these players has anything to do with the new administration. Why do they chose to come to India now instead of say a year back. The market was just as hot and would have given them the same welcome.
 
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alekhkhanna

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Next is software, can amigo, miui or color os compete with the likes of timescape, sense, touchwiz and whatever lg calls their UI ? How mature is the software of these new entries. Might be light and in many ways promise more features but how complete is it. If their developers respond then when is the right time to go with these chinese phones ? at launch of six months after when many bugs will have been ironed out otherwise you're a paying beta tester.
Aha ! I can bet on my honey coated balls that MIUI or CM (which runs on OPO) is a hundred times better than any crap Samsung or LG shove in their phones. And both MIUI and CM have good dev support. MIUI gets weekly updates, incorporating most wanted changes as requested in the website (if possible) and OPO runs CM, which needs no intro. Huge Huge Huge developer base. Compare that with Samsung or LG which take months to tweak out simple bugs in their crazy laggy UIs.
And this response is coming after using 3 modded Android versions - TW (the crappiest of the lot), MIUI and CM.
 

alekhkhanna

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And regarding support, I'll give you a simple scenario, in fact a couple:
- Scenario 1: My Galaxy Note 1, obviously now out of warranty, suddenly wouldn't boot up. I've been a great flasholic since Windows mobile days (Omnia 2 <3), and I do read a lot on XDA about the hardware, so tried some tweaks and nothing worked. Surprisingly, the mobile would only boot when connected to mains, and that too for only 5-7 seconds, and then poof, off with a flash (the 1st time it went off, it fired the phone's flash). I suspected an IC issue, maybe the voltage supplied to the device wasn't being regulated (also changed batteries to check. Couldn't reflash recovery or ROM as the phone wouldn't boot, not even in the recovery mode). Showed it to the official service centre. As expected, hardware issue and the mobo had to be changed. Cost - 13k ! Got it checked from non-official centres, again, they confirmed that the mobo had to be changed. Cost - 9k ! Checked at 3 non-official places and that was the cheapest I could get. So a mobile which will not even fetch me 9-10k today needs more than that to be repaired.
Compare that to an el cheapo phone like Redmi 1S or Redmi Note. 7-10k (same/comparable innards vis a vis costlier Samsung/LG/Sony phones). You use it for a year or more, goes out of warranty. Firstly, if the company has repair parts, the pricing would be much lesser than what Samsung/LG ask. So for a 10k phone, you might pay 6k for a mobo. And even if they don't have the parts and you've to forego the device, it is much easier to put away a 10k device vs a similarly spec-ed 18k one just because it has a "name" branding on it.
- Scenario 2: A friend of mine got one of those HTC Desire models last year. Warranty got over and recently the charging port refused to work. Official service center wants to change the whole mobo, asking for 12k (mobile costed 17-18k) ! Local guys do a temp repair for 400 bucks. Works for 10 days and then the same cycle again. So basically, she spent 18k on a phone which demands another 12k this year. Again compare it to Redmi or Mi series. Even if shit hit the walls and I've to throw it away after one and a half years, who would be more sadder, the one who bought a lower spec-ed phone for 18k or the one who enjoyed a breezy Mi3 for 14k for the same time period ?
 
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Fenix

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Nice to learn some facts but i am lucky to have not faced any on this. Still have a 3gs and iphone 4 which are working without any kind of failure. Build quality also matters but yes,getting a cheaper is also a good option so that one does not get a heart attack if the phone dies after the warranty is out.
 
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abracadabra

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@alekhahanna, guess we need you to be the next PR for Xiaomi India! I guess Hugo has to seriously consider you !
 
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blr_p

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And regarding support, I'll give you a simple scenario, in fact a couple:
- Scenario 1: My Galaxy Note 1, obviously now out of warranty, suddenly wouldn't boot up. I've been a great flasholic since Windows mobile days (Omnia 2 <3), and I do read a lot on XDA about the hardware, so tried some tweaks and nothing worked. Surprisingly, the mobile would only boot when connected to mains, and that too for only 5-7 seconds, and then poof, off with a flash (the 1st time it went off, it fired the phone's flash). I suspected an IC issue, maybe the voltage supplied to the device wasn't being regulated (also changed batteries to check. Couldn't reflash recovery or ROM as the phone wouldn't boot, not even in the recovery mode). Showed it to the official service centre. As expected, hardware issue and the mobo had to be changed. Cost - 13k ! Got it checked from non-official centres, again, they confirmed that the mobo had to be changed. Cost - 9k ! Checked at 3 non-official places and that was the cheapest I could get. So a mobile which will not even fetch me 9-10k today needs more than that to be repaired.
I would not compare the selling price of note 1 after two years with the repair cost. I would compare what % the repair costs based on how much i paid for it. So 9k on a cost price of 30k+ is fine, because to replace that note will put you out 20k+ more. The replacement cost is more important in this case.

I have a friend who bought the note 1 same time as you, couldn't be happier, asked him if he wanted to replace it and he said why ? then i realised what he meant. The screen is 5.3 inches. Back in 2012 this must have been really big. But today with current flagship screen sizes around the same, buying a note 1 in 2012 seems like an inspired decision.

Often i wonder WHO is buying second hand phones ? do people here when they want to get a phone hit quickr or do they check out the never ending flood of blurbs about this or that NEW phone. People here are obsessed with warranty and it needs to be vendor warranty and not some lame seller warranty. Maybe there are others who would rather get second hand instead of paying upfront for new. So the buyers are resellers who will buy second hand with or without warranty so long as they can get a commission selling it on to someone else.

Compare that to an el cheapo phone like Redmi 1S or Redmi Note. 7-10k (same/comparable innards vis a vis costlier Samsung/LG/Sony phones). You use it for a year or more, goes out of warranty. Firstly, if the company has repair parts, the pricing would be much lesser than what Samsung/LG ask.
So lets check out the spare parts scenario for these chinese phones. How many chinese companies can you see here ?
Huawei, lenovo, motorola & zte ie established Chinese brands.

Nothing for Xiaomi, Gionee, Oppo or OPO.

On Xiaomi's site we find screens for mi-2 & hong/redmi. If you break the screen ok but I see no mobo's on offer.

So for a 10k phone, you might pay 6k for a mobo. And even if they don't have the parts and you've to forego the device, it is much easier to put away a 10k device vs a similarly spec-ed 18k one just because it has a "name" branding on it.
What branding implies, is a vendor of standing that can shift units in the millions, therefore there is a good chance of them requiring spares. More demand.

How many would want to pay 6k to repair a phone that cost 10k ? cheaper than spending 10k for a new better phone. But with the low end improvements can be significant year on year that going to 10k isn't that hard.

- Scenario 2: A friend of mine got one of those HTC Desire models last year. Warranty got over and recently the charging port refused to work. Official service center wants to change the whole mobo, asking for 12k (mobile costed 17-18k) ! Local guys do a temp repair for 400 bucks. Works for 10 days and then the same cycle again. So basically, she spent 18k on a phone which demands another 12k this year. Again compare it to Redmi or Mi series.
yeah, same story with the mid range nokias. Had noticed earlier people complaining with nokias that were around the 10-15k mark that mobos were going close to the 10k mark ie 720. So the mobo price remains similar across ranges, what hits people is the percentage

Am a bit leery of USB OTG. Your friend make much use of it with her desire ?

People use it with flash drives and if you're not careful (ie clumsy) it is easy to damage the one & only port you also use to charge the phone. How to fix it ? mobo repair (!) I keep telling people to get a device with damn micro sd and only use otg for contingencies not all the time.

Even if shit hit the walls and I've to throw it away after one and a half years, who would be more sadder, the one who bought a lower spec-ed phone for 18k or the one who enjoyed a breezy Mi3 for 14k for the same time period ?
Hence why i think midranges are in no mans land with the entry of these chinese phones. Course we will have to see whether they can maintain that price advantage. How long can they keep it up. How long can they go with such thin margins. Only if they can sell in the millions.
 
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alekhkhanna

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I would not compare the selling price of note 1 after two years with the repair cost. I would compare what % the repair costs based on how much i paid for it. So 9k on a cost price of 30k+ is fine, because to replace that note will put you out 20k+ more. The replacement cost is more important in this case.
I have a friend who bought the note 1 same time as you, couldn't be happier, asked him if he wanted to replace it and he said why ? then i realised what he meant. The screen is 5.3 inches. Back in 2012 this must have been really big. But today with current flagship screen sizes around the same, buying a note 1 in 2012 seems like an inspired decision.
It's 12k TODAY ! I'm pretty sure had it been back when I purchased it, the replacement price would have been higher.
And yes, Note 1 in 2012 was amazing. Not anymore. I was happy with it, but even Moto G kills the Note 1 innards any day. Daily tasks are (were ?) a chore on Note 1, from opening Whatsapp, to even playing Temple Run 2. The phone is just not worth it anymore

So lets check out the spare parts scenario for these chinese phones. How many chinese companies can you see here ?
Huawei, lenovo, motorola & zte ie established Chinese brands.
Nothing for Xiaomi, Gionee, Oppo or OPO.
On Xiaomi's site we find screens for mi-2 & hong/redmi. If you break the screen ok but I see no mobo's on offer.
.
Errrmm.. I hope you do know that Xiaomiworld is NOT Xiaomi's site. They're a vendor, just like many other, but the name leads to a confusion that they are somehow related to Xiaomi.
And truth be told, why should I be concerned whether these sites are carrying replacements or not ? As long as Xiaomi is able to service my phone, I'm happy.
And I would request you to do some reading online. Xiaomi is AS established a player in the mobile arena as Moto or Huawei or Lenovo.
Here, have a go: http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2014/07/31/chinas-xiaomi-becomes-worlds-5th-largest-smartphone-maker/ (Xiaomi becomes world's 5th largest smartphone maker displacing LG (other 4 are Samsung, Apple, Huawei and Leovo, with both Samsung and Apple facing heat from the competition; Apple's share actually fell from the earlier quarter)!) :)

What branding implies, is a vendor of standing that can shift units in the millions, therefore there is a good chance of them requiring spares. More demand.
How many would want to pay 6k to repair a phone that cost 10k ? cheaper than spending 10k for a new better phone. But with the low end improvements can be significant year on year that going to 10k isn't that hard.
Exactly what I mentioned, cheap phone, cheaper repairs. Costly phone, costlier repairs. So even if, say, the innards of LG G2 and Xiaomi Mi3 are the same, I would end up paying much lesser for Mi3's mobo than G2's. For me, that's a positive aspect of buying a quality cheap phone.

Am a bit leery of USB OTG. Your friend make much use of it with her desire ?
People use it with flash drives and if you're not careful (ie clumsy) it is easy to damage the one & only port you also use to charge the phone. How to fix it ? mobo repair (!) I keep telling people to get a device with damn micro sd and only use otg for contingencies not all the time.
Sire, you really need to read the post again before ranting off. I said the phone's CHARGING PORT refused to work ! She never used USB OTG. She cannot CHARGE her phone.

Hence why i think midranges are in no mans land with the entry of these chinese phones. Course we will have to see whether they can maintain that price advantage. How long can they keep it up. How long can they go with such thin margins. Only if they can sell in the millions.
That's exactly what their plan is. Sell millions. It's a volume game. One of the reasons why Xiaomi continues to sell all of it's phones for at least 18 months as with time, the production cost decreases and profit margins improve.[DOUBLEPOST=1406808654][/DOUBLEPOST]And just a random thought: Xiaomi entered India with around 30 service centers, with 2 being exclusive centers for Xiaomi. They also launched an exclusive hotline and chat for dedicated Xiaomi support.
How many of these "well established" Chinese companies like Huawei, Moto, Lenovo have done so ?
 
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Jambumali

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MotoG 2k price cut, of course this may also be due to expected G2/successor model.
Price cuts from others (Indian etc) will follow, they are playing wait-n-watch game. It is matter of time before mmx & others start making "offers".
 

Brendon

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These Chinese brands are a blessing for someone like me who is scared of putting a lot of money on a phone. A friend bought a Iphone 4 for 22k on EMI and his phone was robbed within 2 months. He still had to keep paying EMI for 7 months more even though he didn't have the phone anymore.

Anyway my point is, these cheaper devices are a God send for people like me. I currently use a Pantech Burst which I paid 7k 2 years ago. The phone has almost zero repair possibility and now its facing some problem.

However considering how much I paid for it I have no real qualms in writing it off and using it as a back up phone and getting another 7k - 8k phone soon.

If I buy an established brand like Sony/Samsung then their phones at this price point suck big time. Micromax and others have generally poor build quality.

However from what I have read Xiaomi build quality is far superior to the stuff Micromax, Karbonn and others churn out.
 

nuvo

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1. OP is coming, but will OPO be available in large scale. I mean its not easily available (invitation only and all that ) in other markets including that of developed world. It would be a pleasent surprise if OP gives priority to India over other markets.

2. Is this move has got something to do with the entry of Xiaomi. I mean Xiaomi has rocked Indian market and other players might be worried not to lose this huge market. Can we expect Meizu too ?

3. Considering the craze for Xiaomi (Flipkart crash and all that ), a hitherto unknown brand, it seems that Indian customers are willing to put VFM factor over Brand value. This has happened in the past for other sectors. Companies like Hyundia has developed stronghold whereas Ford, Chevy and even Toyota has not tasted enough success. So OPO has strong chance of hitting the bulls eye with its impressive specs if it can price it competitively: around 17k, I guess.

4. As far as ungainly big screen (5.5 inch) is concerned, Indian customers traditionally believe that bada hai to behtar hai. So this would not be a deal breaker for many I guess.

5.Not specific to Indian market and a general query : this phone will make its cousine Oppo Find 7 redundant. And some suggests, OP is owned by Oppo. Hope to see some light regarding this.

6. The onslaught of these chinese companies, Motorola, Asus etc. will test the skill of Indian vendors. So far they have been cashing on VFM factor. It would be difficult to sustain the same in future.
 

blr_p

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3. Considering the craze for Xiaomi (Flipkart crash and all that ), a hitherto unknown brand, it seems that Indian customers are willing to put VFM factor over Brand value.
This really is a good laugh and shows how people flipped.

Time was you did not want a chinese phone. Anything but.

Now we have people queuing up to get what ? a chinese phone

and they get pissed off when they cannot buy it :D

This has happened in the past for other sectors. Companies like Hyundia has developed stronghold whereas Ford, Chevy and even Toyota has not tasted enough success. So OPO has strong chance of hitting the bulls eye with its impressive specs if it can price it competitively: around 17k, I guess.
The established brands already dominate market share. I don't think that will change soon. whereas Ford & Chevy were late movers as they did not make the kind of cars people would buy in India.
 

Lord Nemesis

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Well, it won't take a lot of time for that situation to change. Every phone is getting made in china, so every one of them is technically a chinese phone. The hardware and (often software) are often usually the same. So whats putting the big name brands above the rest was a perception of quality and better after sales service. But there are brands like these which offer same or better quality than the rest at attractive price points. Or rather, you can say that the name brands are cutting corners so much that unless its a flag ship device costing over 40k, you won't see any quality.

As for service, its not much of a differentiating factor at least in India considering that the after sales of the big brands is worse than just pathetic. Has anyone managed to get good (and more importantly consistent) service from any of the well known brands like Samsung, Sony or Nokia? They may have service centers, but they make it near to impossible to claim warranty on mobile phones. Most of the time, they claim that there is water damage say that the warranty is void. They will make you pay for any repairs and keep the phone for eternity in the name of getting the required components to fix it.
 

avi

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^I have had great experience with Apple and Nokia
 

Party Monger

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Well, it won't take a lot of time for that situation to change. Every phone is getting made in china, so every one of them is technically a chinese phone. The hardware and (often software) are often usually the same. So whats putting the big name brands above the rest was a perception of quality and better after sales service. But there are brands like these which offer same or better quality than the rest at attractive price points. Or rather, you can say that the name brands are cutting corners so much that unless its a flag ship device costing over 40k, you won't see any quality.

As for service, its not much of a differentiating factor at least in India considering that the after sales of the big brands is worse than just pathetic. Has anyone managed to get good (and more importantly consistent) service from any of the well known brands like Samsung, Sony or Nokia? They may have service centers, but they make it near to impossible to claim warranty on mobile phones. Most of the time, they claim that there is water damage say that the warranty is void. They will make you pay for any repairs and keep the phone for eternity in the name of getting the required components to fix it.
I have claimed warranty on Nokia phones several times. As for water damage, I ask them to open the phone in front of me. There have been times when there were water marks on the motherboard inside but it didn't actually go inside and i pointed that out and they accepted it.
 
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dafreaking

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I thought my Out of Warranty, Galaxy Note was kaput and was collecting money to pay for a motherboard replacement. Turned out due to Bombay weather the USB port was a bit dirty. Samsung Service centre cleaned it for free and the local phone repair chap wanted me to change that part of the unit.

Touchwood till now I haven't required any work on any of my phones. Unless I am earning a boatload of money, or am gifted one, don't see myself owning a 'BIG' brand flag-ship anytime soon.