PC overhaul

cranky

Skilled
I am simplifying my desktop operations, having recently moved to an ATOM-based rig for my 24x7 needs. My earlier desktop had two systems, one relatively light on power (integrated graphics) for 24x7 use but quick enough for browsing and the occasional heavier desktop task (say - recording music, transcoding music collections, watching HD and non-HD video etc) - and the other a gaming machine with relatively higher power and power usage. The general-use machine has an Athlon II 620 with a wheezing 880G board (it audibly wheezes) and the gaming machine has a 550BE unlocked to quad and overclocked, and a 4870x2. It roars. Quite literally, and not always in a nice way :)

Now with the Atom, I think I can go back to a one-system approach as the newer breed of hardware is relatively better on idle power usage and anyway I have a separate 24x7 download setup. Also my 4870x2 is showing signs of age - it works beautifully with everything I play currently, but on newer games I need to back off some eye candy, resolution or both. Note my monitor is a 30" 2560x1600, so graphics horsepower is critical. I have tentatively decided on a step-by-step approach so the first set of upgrades will be graphics, followed by ancillaries (power + case), and then platform.

Hopefully by then Bulldozer will launch and I can start deciding between Sandy/Ivy Bridge and it. The 990X is already a more feature-rich chipset than Z68, I guess it'll come down to performance versus price on the CPUs. Typically at my resolution most games (GTA4 - not!) are GPU-limited, not CPU-limited and my current CPUs seem to be doing OK. Not dying for a CPU upgrade just yet, what I need is lots of eye candy and a CPU that does not hold the setup back when I do make the move to better graphics.

Very quickly, I have two reasons for waiting for AMD. One is cooler compatibility, as either of my existing coolers is a direct fit with AM3+. The second is a richer feature set of which full 2 x16 PCIe slot is the most important given the extremely high graphics bandwidth required for my setup.

So the template below is basically attempting to merge two PCs into one. The third is an HTPC, which will remain as is. For now.

Q: What is your budget?

70-90K over a two-month period

Q: What is your existing hardware configuration (component name - component brand and model) (Rig 1/Rig2)

CPU - AMD AthII x4 620/AMD PhenomII 550BE

Motherboard - Asus M4A88TD-M EVO/Gigabyte GA790X-UD4

GPU - Onboard/Palit Revolution R700

RAM - Corsair DDR3 1600 4G x 2/Crucial DDR2 800 2G x 2

Monitor - Dell 3008WFP

SMPS - Corsair VX450/Corsair TX750

Case - Antec Solo/NZXT Zero

Cooler - Coolermaster Gemini S/Sunbeam CCF

Networking - Belkin N USB dongle/Linksys G USB dongle

Lots of HDDs - about 12TB, plus 2 SSDs in RAID 0 plus a bunch of WD black single-platter drives

About fourteen keyboards and mice. Sure to keep one + one backup.

Nice sound setup(s). No help needed there :)

Q: Which hardware will you be keeping (component name - component brand and model)

Monitor - Dell 3008WFP

SMPS - Corsair TX750 (Step 2 upgrade)

Case - NZXT Zero (Step 2 upgrade)

CPU - AMD Phenom II 550BE (Step 3 upgrade)

Board - GA790X-UD4 (Step 3 upgrade)

RAM - Corsair DDR3 1600 4G x 2 (as Step 3 upgrade), G.Skill Pi Black DDR2 800 (discarded at step 3 upgrade)

All my hard disks and SSDs

Q: Which hardware component are you looking to buy (component name). If you have already decided on a configuration then please mention the (component brand and model) as well, this will help us in fine tuning your requirement.

Step 1 upgrade: Graphics - 30k max (now!)

GPU - AMD 6950 2GB x 2, Crossfire, OC to 6970 speeds. Problem is no one seems to have these in stock and those who do are charging the earth).
Networking - PCi-E network adapter, 300mbps (ordered and on the way).

Step 2 upgrade: Ancillaries - 20-25k (end-Sep)

Case - Corsair 600T, Antec P193 or similar - around 10-12K. Really looking for good suggestions, need to have a relatively quiet case so the macho-aggro Coolermaster HAFs are out of contention.
Power supply - Seasonic X-850 or similar. Don't want a CWT-built supply like HX750/850. AX is slightly expensive for what you get, and the X850 is basically the same supply with lesser warranty.

Step 3 upgrade: Core platform - 25-28k (mid-Oct)

CPU - i5 2500k/AMD equivalent

Board - P67/Z68 board/Gigabyte 990X-UD5.

I have a wishlist for the board. It needs to have:

At least one free PCI slot for a soundcard after fitting two 2-slot cards, and one that doesn't run too hot.
At least one PCI-e slot for my wireless card.
At least one more free slot after all of the above, for future peripheral expansion (say, a Revodrive).
Firewire. Compulsory.
E-Sata. Optional.
Digital output with Dolby Encoding or DTS encoding for surround gaming in legacy, non-dolby games. Currently only supported on Gigabyte boards with the ALC889 chip, so kind of limited to that brand for now.

Already have 8GB of DDR3 memory.

Q: Is this going to be your final configuration or you would be adding/upgrading a component in near future. If yes then please mention when and which component

As above :)

Q: Where will you buy this hardware? (Online/City/TE Dealer)

Wherever I can find it - specific components seem hard to get

Open to online purchase - Yes! Maybe not for the heavier ancillaries but everything else is OK.

Q: Would you consider buying a second hand hardware from the TE market

Yes. It would depend on who was selling and the reasons for sale.

Q: What is your intended use for this PC/hardware

Gaming
Browsing
Desktop Processing
Sound editing, mixing and transcoding
Watching HD movies

Q: Do you have any brand preference or dislike? Please name them and the reason for your preference/dislike.

Do not want to buy Asus product as I heard the after sales service in India is pathetic - this is the first time a template has been clairvoyant ;)

I wouldn't mind buying Asus though if the service in North India is better than what I experienced in Calcutta. Not sure. What does the public feel?

Q: If you will be playing games then which type of games will you be playing?

All driving/racing games ever released and to be released, mostly.

Sometimes I also play shooters and RPGs, specifically:
Oblivion
GTA3, VC and 4
Deus EX: HR
+ lots of legacy games, I'm 40 and I play a lot of games from when some people here weren't born :)

Q: What is your preferred monitor resolution for gaming and normal usage

Gaming - 2560x1600, may back resolution off to 1920x1200 but never lower than that
Desktop - 2560x1600

Q: Are you looking to overclock?

Yes. Looking for advice on cooler as well, if I have to migrate to Intel will need a new cooler. Air/Water is OK.

Q: Which operating system do you intend to use with this configuration?

Windows 7 64 bit

Right. Now let me have it.

Also, watch out for the mother of all sales (not counting Udit's) coming soon.
 
You cannot have things you have mentioned in the wishlist. I dont recall any board which will allow you 2 GPUs + 1 PCI + 1 PCIe + Another PCIe free except maybe for boards which are by themselves would be 18-20K.
 
As you said that you are not in a hurry and your rigs are not screaming for upgrade then why dont you just delay your purchase a bit... i mean till next month... Within this and next month a lot of things are going to get released... AMD bulldozer processors, AMD Southern island GPUs (HD7xxx), iPhone 5, Android Icecream Sandwich etc etc... See instead of buying old generation GPUs now you can buy new generation GPUs if you would wait till next month... And till next month Corsair Carbide 400R case would also get released in India... Its a great case like 600T but would sell at slightly lesser price(100$)... Review : Corsair Carbide Series 400R Case Review - Corsair Carbide 400R PC Chassis - Legit Reviews
 
thebanik said:
You cannot have things you have mentioned in the wishlist. I dont recall any board which will allow you 2 GPUs + 1 PCI + 1 PCIe + Another PCIe free except maybe for boards which are by themselves would be 18-20K.

Was hoping for your response. Thanks.

Both the P8P67Pro and the Gigabyte Z68XPUD3 have this kind of slot configuration. So does the 990FXA-UD3.

There may be more? Most full ATX boards have 7 slots anyway (so 4 for graphics, plus three more for which hopefully one is PCI and other two some form of PCI-E), some have pretty whacky configs where all the conditions may not be possible (some MSI boards), but hopefully the better ones do not :)

As you said that you are not in a hurry and your rigs are not screaming for upgrade then why dont you just delay your purchase a bit

Good point, except my graphics desperately needs a lift. I do realise 69xx prices will drop soon, but I also need that part of the upgrade quickly.

On the CPU I am willing to wait a month. Actually the timeline is for the CPU upgrade to happen only mid-October.
 
^^ see 28nm Southern Island GPUs would not only perform better than the current GPUs but would also run cooler... And would carry some new features like XDR2 (Some new generation DRAM for GPUs)... See if HD7xxx GPUs release date would have been 3 to 4 months away then going with HD69xx GPUs would have made sense but the new generation GPUs release date is not so far... AMD could also release these new GPUs this month... Waiting for these Southern Island GPUs would be really worth it.. :)

http://wccftech.com/amds-generation-28nm-hd7000-series-southern-islands-graphic-cards-specs-leaked/
 
@op

sir i have the 600t and it is a wonderful case

however its one major drawback is its inability to fit a 240rad internally in push pull

just a 240 with push fits in fine though. great case and extremely easy to work in/ handle...i would highly recommend it but the 400r is even better at the price point.

also have a look at the 650d as it is also a stunner :)

ps-i could shot you some pics of my 600t if u want but u can/ will find much better stuff on overclockers.net

cheers :)
 
@Hades.

Dam. The 7950 looks really interesting, with VLIW4 and higher clocks/more shaders. I suspect it will launch in the 20k+ price point for sure though. Let's see if I can hold on to my money.

One hopes that the shortage of 69xx series is a portent for the 7xxx going on the production line. One can only hope :)

@Moksh.

Thanks for the offer, I've been through reviews of all the cases. Yes the 400 is tempting and so is the 600/650. The reason for wanting the 600 is the slightly quieter operation, and in my mind the slightly more organic look. In my case the PC will be near the floor and then the Antecs pick up a lot of dust due to negative pressure on the front bezel. Looks ugly, and so the Corsair was getting close to becoming default choice. However the case is going to be step 2 in my mind.

How easy was it for you to set up? And a picture (specially inside) is very welcome. It gives a much better idea than a review site, which may leave cable disconnected to take a better review pic.
 
i would have to agree with you that the 600t is a much better looking case than the 650/400. the 600t has a nice mesh on the front panel that keeps majority of the dust out and only the finest of particles get in, nothing a little whiff or air cant handle :)

i dont have a good cam on me right now but ill make sure to send u a snap as soon as i get my hands on one :)

it was a breeze to setup, considering this was my first proper build ever (ps i had a cm elite 355 before this). i was done in an 1 something and corsair even provides a bunch of cable ties with the case, i would suggest u get a few more though :) i can link you to the 600t club on ocn here

go through the thread and even though it is a huge number of pages, im sure the eye candy will compensate :)

i also shot you a pm..:)

NINJA edit...here is a post containing pics from my setup :)
 
cranky said:
Was hoping for your response. Thanks.

Both the P8P67Pro and the Gigabyte Z68XPUD3 have this kind of slot configuration. So does the 990FXA-UD3.

There may be more? Most full ATX boards have 7 slots anyway (so 4 for graphics, plus three more for which hopefully one is PCI and other two some form of PCI-E), some have pretty whacky configs where all the conditions may not be possible (some MSI boards), but hopefully the better ones do not :)



Good point, except my graphics desperately needs a lift. I do realise 69xx prices will drop soon, but I also need that part of the upgrade quickly.

On the CPU I am willing to wait a month. Actually the timeline is for the CPU upgrade to happen only mid-October.

Yeah, having slots is not a problem at all, as you said many have that but the problem is that you need big mobos, E-ATX mobos with good space configuration, and then too you will be hard pressed to find 3 free slots after a CF because the cards you have mentioned, all have dual slot coolers. On that thought, going with custom water cooling will solve that issue. But such a water cooling setup will in itself cost you around 20-25K at the least.

@ Hades, The rumors are pointing to November Launch at best, as for XDR2 & 79XX series they are not getting launched in even November but Q1, 2012, AFAIR reading....
 
^ Yup AFAIK, the highest model that will be releasing this year would be a 7870 while the 79XX series would mostly be a 2012 launch. However I still think it would be worth the wait. The 7xxx are supposed to be very power efficient as well.

If you need to buy it now, I guess the MSI 6950 TwinFrozr III PE/OC edition would be a good choice. I think they unlock to 6970 as well. They go for about 15200 each.

The Seasonic X-850 would be the ideal PSU to upgrade to.

As you'll be upgrading the CPU later, you can compare Bulldozer's performance and decide accordingly then. As for the boards, even though they might have all the slots, the question would be if you would be able to utilize all of them after putting in 2 big graphic cards.

As for the cabinet, I think the 600T is great. It looks better and I think has more room that the 400R. If it's worth the price difference over the 400R, that is what you'll have to decide. But I think we still have to wait for the 400R to reach here and see how the pricing is.
 
on the pricing front this is how it has been

on launch us prices vs india prices

1)600t-169usd-11000inr

2)h80-110usd-6100inr

3)h100-120usd-7200inr

4)800d-279usd-approx 16000inr

so i would say the 400r would touch our shores at 6.5k

this however is a estimated guess...price may or may not be more
 
cranky any particular reason you are avoiding the HX850 unit? They have a 7 year warranty vis-a-vis Seasonic's 5 year warranty methinks.
 
See the Hardware Secrets review of the HX units. While competent, they are not stellar performers specially in ripple, noise and efficiency. The AX and the V2 of TX are a touch better, but I'm not getting another TX after having to have lived with mine for close to three years. Basically I'm not a fan of the CWT OEM units that Corsair sells. The Seasonics-built units OTOH, are absolutely fantastic.

The good thing about the 7xxx series is a PSU upgrade may not be needed at all given the lower consumption. Not that my 4870x2 is a shy drinker, and I'm not even sure 2x6950 will be significantly more than the 350W+ that this monster swallows, but I would like a quieter supply. The TX750 (I have the V1, built by CWT) is like a banshee out of hell at load.

I'm not sure I can wait till 2012. There is some place called Cost to Cost in Delhi that has Sapphire 2GB 6950s at 13.8k each. Yay? Nay?
 
i have bought a some stuff a while back from cost to cost

trust me, go there and have a look at the good before paying for it. the sellers were quite the noobs and did not know anything about the product including the names of the product itself :(
 
thebanik said:
the cards you have mentioned, all have dual slot coolers.

Yes, so that's 4 slots for two cards. Plus three others. All the boards I mentioned are regular ATX boards and have three slots free after populating two PCI-E slots with dual-slot coolers.

The trouble with some boards is that the PCI slots are directly below the x8 or x16 PCIe slots, which means once a dual-slot card is used there is no access to even one PCI slot. Some MSI mobos are like this. The ones I am choosing have the correct layout - though admittedly once it's all installed it's going to be quite tight in there.
 
It is the multi-GPU setup which is throwing a spanner in the works. If you can do with a single fast(er) card, board selection with available PCI.E docks will be easier.

:)
 
^^I agree. There is the 6990, but I don't see sense in paying close to 40% premium over a pair of 6950s which basically do the same thing.

The resolution is the primary problem. If I had a 1920x monitor a single 6950 would have been more or less enough. The multi-GPU is a result of the required screen resolution, actually :)
 
Why not a USB wifi adaptor?
On the same note, why not a USB DAC for audio?

Seasonics are THE way to go. My X750's fan is barely audible on the extremely rare occasions that it DOES decide to kick in.
 
USB adapters don't allow for antennas. Also very finicky and a little bit unstable. I have four or five of them laying around the house, all are equally useless for anything except web surfing. For file transfer or HD streaming, one needs stable and consistent performance, which I have never got from USB adapters. A wireless G PCI vs USB comparo heavily favours the slot versions - I had a 20-25% increase in usable throughput when using the slot versions. More heat dissipating area, more stable power, and so on. Not so happy with my Belkin N adapter either.

To audio, I have a heavily modded Delta 66 which I use and like very much. Also it has inputs, something I might need for recording. And it performs very well, twelve years after it was created. I need to continue using it.
 
If you ever decide to plunge more monies into your networking setup.
TRENDnet TEW-687GA 450Mbps Wireless N Gaming Adapter Reviewed - Wireless Performance, Competitive, Closing Thoughts - SmallNetBuilder

A 3x3:3 setup would be perfect for you.
A 450Mbps setup is definitely going to be expensive, but I would guess that a 300mbps setup should be sufficient.
PS - SmallNetBuilder is your friend.
PPS - USB adaptors definitely allow for antennae(Mine does, 150mpbs though). Some come with usb extension cables as well. There are others that come with even dual antennae.
 
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