power strip with spike and surge protector

viktik said:
i have found three which could be trusted

GM 3203 Quadro 4+1 Spike Guard With Surge Protector And Safety Shutter
Havells 6A Four-Way Extension Board
Philips 6A 4 Way Surge and Spike Guard
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Read specification numbers. How many joules does it claim to 'block' or 'absorb'? Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. What happens when its hundreds of joules tries to absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? Does the word fire cause concern?

Potentially destructive surges are rare - maybe once every seven years. If one exists, then everything - furnace, phone system, LED bulbs, clocks, radios, refrigerator, dishwasher, security system - everything needs protection.

Protection means that destructive current connects low impedance (ie less than 3 meters to earth before even entering a building. This 'whole house' solution is a solution implemented when damage cannot happen. Because even near zero joule protectors need that protection.
 
I always use Belkin surge protectors. Once saved my HT and LED TV from lightening. The gold series is good one but it is also does not come cheap. There are cheaper ones but I am not sure how good it would protect from surge and lightning.
 
westom said:
Read specification numbers. How many joules does it claim to 'block' or 'absorb'? Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. What happens when its hundreds of joules tries to absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? Does the word fire cause concern?

Potentially destructive surges are rare - maybe once every seven years. If one exists, then everything - furnace, phone system, LED bulbs, clocks, radios, refrigerator, dishwasher, security system - everything needs protection.

Protection means that destructive current connects low impedance (ie less than 3 meters to earth before even entering a building. This 'whole house' solution is a solution implemented when damage cannot happen. Because even near zero joule protectors need that protection.
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westom said:
I also know the moon is made of cheese. Its color proves it.

Instead, tell us why you know that Belkin was effective.
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Not sure if moon is made of cheese, I have never been there myself. But whatever you said above did make zero sense because I am not from electronics background nor do I care even if I was to understand it as all I need is to know what works and what doesnt.

So please dont point fingers at others trying to help while your post just above that was literally nothing useful.
 
rakesh_ic said:
But whatever you said above did make zero sense because I am not from electronics background nor do I care even if I was to understand it as all I need is to know what works and what doesnt.
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Those who want to be scammed only want to be told what to do or believe. Fewer who solve layman problems (auto won't start, checking account balance, no cell service, air conditioner does not cool) ignore every 'do this and do that' response. Remaining are useful suggestions that say why. "Why" separates chaff from knowledge.

Joules were taught to everyone in high school science. Joules separates scams from informed recommendations. Every informed and effective solution says where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. No way around over 100 years of well proven science and experience - explained at a layman level using high school science.

A Belkin was recommended to do what it cannot possibly do. How did that Belkin do what even the manufacturer does not claim it can do? Anyone can read its joules number. What fact or number proved it does what even manufacturer specs do not claim?

Maybe I should claim a Belkin is made of cheese. Then you would demand I prove it with 'whys' and numbers.

A Belkin power strip, that does work, suddenly does not when it was needed. Joules - a number taught in high school - says what a Belkin really does.

Protector that is trusted means a destructive current connects low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth before entering a building. Only then does a protector actually connect to protection. No way around over 100 years of science and experience. But again, that insolent 'reason why' just keeps popping up - with spec numbers.
 
westom said:
I also know the moon is made of cheese. Its color proves it.

Instead, tell us why you know that Belkin was effective.
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“Of course the moon's made of cheese - how else do you explain the holes and the yellow colour? The real question is, how can it not be cheese? It makes perfect sense.”
~ Albert Einstein ate the moon for his lunch - from uncyclopedia.

Anyway whatever I had posted is what I had experienced. Technically a lay person like me would not know about joules or impedance but I was thankful that Belkin protected my electronics system during a severe thunder storm. Most of my lighting and couple of fans and a refrigerator conked off during the storm. Since I had connected the HT and TV (including Bluray player, XBOX, media player) to Belkin, whatever happened the surge or the power did not reach the main switch instead the Belkin got hit and fried in the process. Also I was able to replace the surge protector as it was under warranty. I hope I have explained you enough. I had bought a similar looking one like this
http://www.amazon.in/Belkin-F9E800z...293459&sr=8-3&keywords=belkin+surge+protector
 
I had my entire PC blow up a couple years back (including my ISPs tower on our terrace).
Only the ram and optical drive survived.

Is there anything out there that can protect against that level of destructive power?
How effective will these powerstrip type 'surge protectors' be in that kind of a situation?
 
saumilsingh said:
Is there anything out there that can protect against that level of destructive power?
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Protection from direct lightning strikes has been routine for over 100 years. Electronics atop the Empire State Building survive 23 direct strikes annually. Atop the WTC, it was 40. Telco switching centers (COs) suffer about 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without phone service for four days while they replace that $multi-million computer? Never?

But protection is never done by a protector. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. These proven solutions cost about $1 per protected appliance. And come with numbers that define that protection. Ignore any recommendation that does not also say why with numbers.

Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector to protect everything (including that near zero joule Belkin) is 50,000 amps.

But again, no protector does protection. An effective protector is a connecting device to what defines all protection. To what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules- single point earth ground.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground and that low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) connection to earth. So why is that not common knowledge among everyone who made a recommendation? Most only recite subjective claims made in advertising. Anyone can read a near zero joule numbers on a Belkin, APC, or Monster. Most ignore numbers.

All appliances already contain robust protection. For example a hundreds joule surge would be converted by a computer into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power its semiconductors. It is called electricity. A current incoming to a Belkin must also (simultaneously) be outgoing into an attached computer. That current is too tiny to harm a computer. That same current destroys a near zero Belkin. Then myth millers start. "My computer sacrificed itself to save my computer." Total nonsense. That path to earth was through a Belkin and computer. Computer consumed some of that energy as electricity. Belkin failed to even promote more sales.

Effective protection means a protector never fails. A whole house' protector connects up to 50,000 amps to earth and remains functional for decades. If damaged, then the homeowner made a mistake (for that venue) and earths a 100,000 amp protector. That is protection even from direct lightning strikes.

A typical 'whole house' protector costs about $1 per protected appliance. These can even be rented from the electric company. So why does everyone not know about this? Again, most are not educated by facts. Most learn from hearsay, advertising, or urban myths. Or in the case of that Belkin, saw damage. Then used wild speculation to explain what was observed. Most of us do that. Most eyes glaze over with numbers.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. TV cable does not even need a protector - it connects directly to earth via a hardwire. A protector connects low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to what does protection. To do what that hardwire does better. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. A protector is as effective as its earth ground.

Belkin and other plug-in protectors have no earth ground (safety ground is not earth ground). Will not even discuss it. Profit centers will not discuss what would harm profits.

Meanwhile, view numbers for a UPS. Even less joules. Where is that protection? Wild speculation or urban myth? Maybe by a man in the moon who invented cheese. Wild speculation - or proven by numbers?
 
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Just a question. How do such tall buildings connect to earth in less than 3 meters.
I am asking because I live in an area where there are frequent lightning strikes. We have got proper earthing done i.e. a small pole is installed in the ground and wire from it runs to our main box.( I think that's where the wire runs from it. I don't know for sure because I was very young when this work was done.)
 
@technofast - I had my 5.1 speaker system (of PC), among some other devices like the monitor, console, etc. connected to a Microtek double-battery UPS, via a Belkin Gold series surge protector. some weeks back probably a surge occurred (I wasn't at home), and the fuse of the UPS & the UPS itself, both went bust, while fortunately only the fuse of the speaker-system got fried. happened for the first time in the 5 years of operation (surge-protector is 'safe').
while, a friend who was using a local spike-guard, during a surge his GPU went kaput.
 
rdst_1 said:
Just a question. How do such tall buildings connect to earth in less than 3 meters.
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Tall buildings are made of concrete and steel. Both are electrically conductive materials. Tall buildings are earth ground.

That short rod must be at least 8 feet to meet human safety codes. Ground rod is even longer or more to provide transistor safety. Unfortunately many electrician, without appreciating the importance of earth ground, may install a four foot ground rod. How would you know?

Earth ground - the most critical item in a lightning rod protection system or in a 'whole house' surge protection system - is usually ignored or forgotten. Because it is not seen and therefore must not be important.

Follow that bare copper wire to be certain.

One cable installer ran a bare copper wire from his TV cable to a flower box beneath a nearby windows. He stuck that copper wire into that flower box dirt. That was his earth ground connection.
 
Gotcha. We get a lot of thunderstorms where I live and that protection system was installed after one such incident caused damage. Turns out, even this system is just for grounding the electrical system.
Now we are renovating the house and it's height is going to increase multi fold. I am going to get a proper lightning protection system installed.

One can read more about it over here - http://stormhighway.com/protection.php

However, this article also states that even if a protection system is able to dissipate 99.9% of the discharge, the 0.1% amounts to 100A in a typical lightning strike and that would still take out electronic items like Computers and TVs.

So basically, the only solution is to completely remove any electrical connection to these devices in case of a thunderstorm. I am going to settle for a home insurance policy instead which covers lightning and fire.
 
rdst_1 said:
However, this article also states that even if a protection system is able to dissipate 99.9% of the discharge, the 0.1% amounts to 100A in a typical lightning strike and that would still take out electronic items like Computers and TVs.
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You will never know when a surge will be coming. You have no idea when a stray car will strike a pole, what tree rodents do, and when utility switching occurs. Best protection at each appliance is already inside that appliance. Numbers from international design standards and from component manufacturers make obvious robust protection that already exists.

Your concern is a rare anomaly that can overwhelm that existing internal protection. A more common source of damage is lightning striking utility wires far down some street. That is a surge incoming to every household appliance. If earthed, then any residuals are so tiny as to not overwhelm protection in any appliance.

A typical lightning strike is 20,000 amps. So an effective protector is at lest 50,000 amps. That defines protector life expectancy over many surges (including direct lightning strikes). That is the science. Protection during each surge is defined by the quality of single point earth ground. For most, a few 10 foot ground rods are more than sufficient. For some, that means a building must be surrounded by a buried ground wire. That is the 'art'.

IEEE defines effective protection as 99.5% to 99.9% effective. And puts more numbers to it.
Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ... Protection at 99.5% is the practical choice.
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Ok.
So can you explain in layman terms, what can a houseowner do to minimize damage from spikes or surges, whether it is a lightning strike or a surge from the electric connection.

I get that you are saying that devices themselves have surge protection built in their circuits but can't we complement that so that it provides another layer of protection
 
rdst_1 said:
So can you explain in layman terms, what can a houseowner do to minimize damage from spikes or surges, whether it is a lightning strike or a surge from the electric connection,
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As explained.
A typical lightning strike is 20,000 amps. So an effective [whole house] protector is at lest 50,000 amps. .... Protection during each surge is defined by the quality of single point earth ground.
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Walk into any properly stocked big box hardware store or electrical supply house. Ask for a 'whole house' protector. Read its spec number (ie at least 50,000 amps). If sufficient, then address a complex part of that solution - single point earth ground.

If you do not have that, then a 'secondary' protection layer is missing or compromised.
 
westom said:
As explained. Walk into any properly stocked big box hardware store or electrical supply house. Ask for a 'whole house' protector. Read its spec number (ie at least 50,000 amps). If sufficient, then address a complex part of that solution - single point earth ground.

If you do not have that, then a 'secondary' protection layer is missing or compromised.
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Thanks mate. I'll ask around for this 'whole house protector'. I haven't heard of it or seen it anywhere before so it will take some digging to find where I can buy one.
 
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