Then why not play the same game pakistan is playing. Kill their people and soldiers too. Why cant we inflict the same damage? Oh wait, I know the answer, cause the dicktator has crippled the economy with his fantasy ideas like demonetisation and GST lmao.
If you want to inflict damage then the people of this country have to get behind the govt and stick with it.

When we do something you say there is no proof. You should be saying that when the govt keeps quiet not when they come out bells ringing and shouting that they did !

Cannot say we want war today and one week later change our mind. Ok now stop. Does not work that way.

The Army chief is on record that India does not spread instability in the region as in keeping with our values.
 
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Wrong. As the stakes grow higher, china will distance itself from Pakistan. You think anyone would do business with china if it openly supports a terrorist state? Its only working cause right now the issue is very small, not big enough to break trade ties over it.

We should impose a huge cost for such behaviour.
It's not working out that way. China blocks us designating Masood Azhar because they are heavily invested in Pakistan. Is this protection money ? dancing with the devil we know the result with indira & Rajeev. Maybe things will change when they have a 9/11 moment.

China wants to ban islam and has interned close to a million uighurs. The really strange thing is no militant outfit in Pakistan has a problem with this. All mum. Those camps are for training, they mouth out the official CCP line. They know which side their bread is buttered.

it is the non-muslim countries that are at the forefront in bringing the uighur plight to the rest of the world.
 
Is there any other non-govt way to donate? I don't trust the govt managed fund trusts. Like with with CM/PF Relief funds ,the money often gets diverted or misused.

Paytm has an option for the wives of martyrs fund.
I know someone in the army that has confirmed the money does go to the family every year from the bharat ke veer site.
They basically distribute it equally from the corpus fund to all the martyrs equally unless you contribute to an martyr directly
 
I found a option to donate to "CRPF Wives Welfare Association" on Paytm. s this what you are referring to?

Looks like this is the one setup by paytm. I have gone ahead and donated through it.
 
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Pakistani army will never forget the debacle of '71 which was an utter humiliation.
They then used the Saudi and US money to train Mujahideen in the 80's for use in Afghanistan against the Soviets and then when things died down there these attack dogs were pointed in out direction.
But they are a nuclear state and with China protecting the CPEC which is utterly necessary for them keeping in mind all Chinese oil has to pass by the Andamans now I don't see any hope for war.This might be an unpopular opinion in this environment of frustration but nuclear war is a zero sum game.
I cannot urge Indian soldiers to go die in a war from the safety of sitting in front of a keyboard(Although thats kaput in case of MAD-Mutually Assured Destruction).
What keeps Pakistan safe is the P5 not any nukes. If the P5 are distracted then we have an opportunity.

Nothing stops nuclear armed states having limited wars. eg. Kargil, border clashes between the Soviets & China in the late 60's. Or even fighting a nuclear armed state without nukes as the Chinese did in Korea in the 50s, Vietnam after, Egypt with Israel in '73 & Afghanistan in the 80s.

The Indian army is not in the slightest bit worried about Pak nukes. Indian & American politicians are.

The problem with India is that we are not a country historically but rather a collection of states.
India as a concept was built by Ashok, Akbar and then the British.
Now if some state feels that they're better off without India it opens up a Pandora's box. If we let Kashmir go (TBH its not worth the trouble keeping in mind it has nothing of value to offer) then what is to stop Punjab(Khalistan)/Tamil Nadu/Maharashtra from deciding that they're better off on their own.
Only the lives of those that were sacrificed to keep it since '47

Kashmir is where all the rivers originate from. That has some value.

Why should the Paks have an easy border with China so they can surround us.

We don't need to concede anything

Jaish's stated objective is to wrest J & K from India and unify it with Pakistan. Then use that territory as a beach head to attack the rest of India.

The bottom line is we don't believe in segregation. Two nation theory is an utter sham and only got going because the Brits needs a military outpost to fight the soviets.

Going by the westphalia definition India is a collection of states because here the political boundary is important but we have a civilisation that goes back thousands of years.

I would say Pakistan is an artificial state that does not deserve to exist. They are the ones with no history.

No one has ever managed to win an insurgency be it US in Vietnam,Soviets in Afghanistan and US again in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now US is opening peace talks with the Taliban....We Don't Negotiate With Terrorists :p
Don't have to win, key is not to lose it. And militarily there is no way for the Paks to win there. How does one define win ? Look at the NE, today its very different compared to years gone by. Have we won in the NE. Bangladesh was an insurgency that we actively supported. Sri Lanka got rid of the LTTE. The Vietnamese marched into Cambodia and got rid of the Khmer rouge.

So nothing short of a ethnic cleansing is a strategic solution for Kashmir. The only solution to stop this cycle of violence from our end and then theirs in my opinion is a ethnic dilution program i.e.
1) Relocate the Kashmiris in every other state of India and give them remittance so that they an start off anew. Keeping in mind the military expenditure we have to currently allocate for Kashmiri pacification that should not be a massive hit to the government exchequer .
2) Kasmiris should not be bunched at all but spread out as much as possible so that they assimilate with the local populace.
3) Once they have access to the Indian style opportunities outside Kashmir sans the military presence they will have much more to lose and then hopefully they'll come to their senses that its much more beneficial to be in India rather than a wedge between India and Pakistan.
Before we get into that this is what people think is coming down the pipe. We've got a fight on our hands.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/voices/116903/

That is the big picture. They compare with the 90s when we got caught with our pants down. Still we won. Win here is defined as holding. The other side failed to change the status quo. This has been the story with every war waged by the Paks. We kept our objectives and won every single one.
 
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They didn't do anything till 26/11 inspite of terrorism being at a peak.

After the event, they strengented uapa and also brought in NIA. They also had huge success in curbing terrorism.
26-11 had four times the casualties yet the mood with this attack is the same. As it was with Uri.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...rket-bandh-on-monday/articleshow/68034233.cms

Social media effect.

For once i can agree with the reasons to have such a bandh. It will unite the country behind the security force and the govt including the opposition.
 
Pakistani army will never forget the debacle of '71 which was an utter humiliation.
They then used the Saudi and US money to train Mujahideen in the 80's for use in Afghanistan against the Soviets and then when things died down there these attack dogs were pointed in out direction.
But they are a nuclear state and with China protecting the CPEC which is utterly necessary for them keeping in mind all Chinese oil has to pass by the Andamans now I don't see any hope for war.This might be an unpopular opinion in this environment of frustration but nuclear war is a zero sum game.
I cannot urge Indian soldiers to go die in a war from the safety of sitting in front of a keyboard(Although thats kaput in case of MAD-Mutually Assured Destruction).

We ought to have steamrolled past Lahore in '71 but US and Russia (mainly Russians) told us to back off. Russia had stuck it neck far out so far as to openly challenge the US 7th fleet with submarines but even their support had limitations in front of madman Nixon.

The problem with India is that we are not a country historically but rather a collection of states.
India as a concept was built by Ashok, Akbar and then the British.
Now if some state feels that they're better off without India it opens up a Pandora's box. If we let Kashmir go (TBH its not worth the trouble keeping in mind it has nothing of value to offer) then what is to stop Punjab(Khalistan)/Tamil Nadu/Maharashtra from deciding that they're better off on their own.
No one has ever managed to win an insurgency be it US in Vietnam,Soviets in Afghanistan and US again in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now US is opening peace talks with the Taliban....We Don't Negotiate With Terrorists :p

So nothing short of a ethnic cleansing is a strategic solution for Kashmir. The only solution to stop this cycle of violence from our end and then theirs in my opinion is a ethnic dilution program i.e.
1) Relocate the Kashmiris in every other state of India and give them remittance so that they an start off anew. Keeping in mind the military expenditure we have to currently allocate for Kashmiri pacification that should not be a massive hit to the government exchequer .
2) Kasmiris should not be bunched at all but spread out as much as possible so that they assimilate with the local populace.
3) Once they have access to the Indian style opportunities outside Kashmir sans the military presence they will have much more to lose and then hopefully they'll come to their senses that its much more beneficial to be in India rather than a wedge between India and Pakistan.
This is the concept that needs constitutional preference.
They are like frogs in a well and so support porkistan.
We are seeing them more as a Labrats. Let those Labrats come out of those cages they are in and experience this world. I mean enoy the various luxuries we enjoy.
Mark my words, they will never go back. They will never listen to those across the border.Then the Labrats will give those porkistanese one middle finger. Thats all.
If we assume we support Baluch, then there wont be much difference us and those AHoles.
 
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First one who fires all wins it all.
But India will fire only one that too of a very lower capability like a sutli bomb and then wait for oppositions firing or wait for next 50yrs to fire another one. And by that time india will be history!
1st one who fires all will start a WW3.
Unless one becomes a common enemy to all.
This takes some more time.
China has a sheep herding nomads primarily Moslems in their southern provinces.
If porkistan pokes there. Then China will never stand by it.
Anybody remember that theatre fiasco in Russia where it's operation to flush out the terrorists failed, then these Chinese nomads also ruffled their feathers a little but not much to become or cause a concern to China.
In the mean time we need to undertake surgical strikes.
Since our independence many opposed our views regarding porkistans terror mongering but almost the entire west realised now.
It's just a matter of time before China will eventually realise.
 
What keeps Pakistan safe is the P5 not any nukes. If the P5 are distracted then we have an opportunity.

Nothing stops nuclear armed states having limited wars. eg. Kargil, border clashes between the Soviets & China in the late 60's. Or even fighting a nuclear armed state without nukes as the Chinese did in Korea in the 50s, Vietnam after, Egypt with Israel in '73 & Afghanistan in the 80s.

The Indian army is not in the slightest bit worried about Pak nukes. Indian & American politicians are.

Not accurate here at all.
The Sino-Soviet clashes happened in 1969 whereas China just tested their first warheads in 1964 that too with Soviet help. They didn't have any credible delivery mechanism to threaten USSR. In fact it was a limited war smaller than Kargil. It was more of a pissing contest since Nikita Kruschev basically denounced Stalin's policies and that pissed off Mao a lot as he was pretty chummy with Stalin and used the same Stalinist policies in China.

All other examples you cited here are not between two nuclear powers.

-Korean War between US/UK and allied powers directly engaged North Korea and then later China who were supported indirectly by USSR.
-Vietnam was an insurgency for uniting their country where the French pulled the same divide and rule tactic as in India
-Yom Kippur War of '73 had Egypt and Syria on one hand with USSR support and Israel with US support on another. Even though Israel had nukes by 1968 they have always denied the same.
In fact at at one point in the 73 war Israeli PM Golda Meir thought of using nukes as a last resort but the Israelis managed to turn the tide by conventional warfare.
-Afghanistan in the 80's was the Mujahideen supported by US and Saudi against the USSR. Again both sides weren't nuclear.

If you're interested in military tactics devised by the Indian forces look up the Cold Start doctrine concoted by Sundarji.

A small excerpt here.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...mitations_and_Possible_Response_from_Pakistan

This doctrine is a massive headache for the Pakistani military but they have developed tactical nukes which are small nukes designed to hit Indian armored formations after they have penetrated Pakistani borders by about 80 Km and they are unable to push back using conventional means.

These guys are so crazy that they have a policy to nuke their own territory. :O
Don't have to win, key is not to lose it. And militarily there is no way for the Paks to win there. How does one define win ? Look at the NE, today its very different compared to years gone by. Have we won in the NE. Bangladesh was an insurgency that we actively supported. Sri Lanka got rid of the LTTE. The Vietnamese marched into Cambodia and got rid of the Khmer rouge.

The NE didn't have much of a outside support and that outside support from India is precisely the reason Bangladesh exists today.
The LTTE defeat was an ethnic cleansing which we Indians cannot do as a principle .Otherwise how are we better than these dogs?
Moreover the international backlash(which would be absolutely justified) would ruin us and set us back by a decade or more. Think about the 1988 Tianamen Square debacle which halted the Chinese economy to a large extent till they got into the WTO in 2001.
The Khmer Rouge was actively supported by the US during the Vietnam war to act as a counterpoint to the Vietcong.
Once the US left and Pol Pot killed a million people in his country no one from the outside was ready to support them.
Hence the Vietnamese could go in and wipe them out.

Before we get into that this is what people think is coming down the pipe. We've got a fight on our hands.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/voices/116903/

That is the big picture. They compare with the 90s when we got caught with our pants down. Still we won. Win here is defined as holding. The other side failed to change the status quo. This has been the story with every war waged by the Paks. We kept our objectives and won every single one.

This is pretty scary. Once these guys have a carte blanche all their focus will be on us. Whether we go hard or go soft it won't matter.

Because they believe that martyrdom buys them a Season Pass to heaven.
You can only defeat an enemy by destroying their will to fight. If thats the carrot in front of them then 100 of them are ready to die to kill one of us.

As for the Kargil War it is a bit funny as the Paki army executed the tactical operation superbly but failed at the strategic level.

Think in case of a broader war in the western theater which will always be the focal point of conflict between Indian and Pakistan due to topography if they had pulled a Kargil parallelly then we would have to divert a substantial portion of our combat power which could be deployed in Rajasthan into routing out these guys from Kargil.

That would include a major chunk of the infantry and almost all of our artillery which is darn limited to this day. So tactically you are locking up a large portion of your enemy by only deploying a couple of regiments of light infantry. Pretty neat.

However being the hothead doofuses they are they played their aces up the sleeve too early which would come in handy in case of a broader war.

Apologies for the long post guys. Problem is no one in my circle is interested in geopolitics. So excuse my rant.:)
 
The biggest problem in India is the alienation, hostility and belittlement of people different than themselves using any excuse they can muster. No, its not done as a just a knee jerk reaction and its not just Kashmiri's who face it. Just check out how people of NE states are treated in India. Its a systemic problem. I have friends from both regions who have faced such hostility or belittlement in other regions.

upload_2019-2-17_21-49-9.png



People say that India is all about about unity in diversity. But there is no unity to be seen except in practicing discrimination. Our history itself rife with it and is the proof. The people labeled as :"lower castes" were more than happy to join the British or anybody else they could, and fight for them against fellow countrymen.They were right too in doing so. When you reject and alienate people, they will look for a place or group they can belong to. Many religious conversions came about for the same reason.

This was also how Partition of the country came about ultimately. Calling Pak as Porkistan as an insult is another example of that sort of belittlement tendency. Don't forget that the region we call Pak today is also part of the same Indian sub continent and considered part of Hindustan till just 70 years ago. People don't change just by drawing an imaginary line one fine day. What ever you call them is a reflection of our mindset too.

India has a long history. People brag about it, but the only thing they don't seem to do is learn from it.
 
This is the concept that needs constitutional preference.
They are like frogs in a well and so support porkistan.
We are seeing them more as a Labrats. Let those Labrats come out of those cages they are in and experience this world. I mean enoy the various luxuries we enjoy.
Mark my words, they will never go back. They will never listen to those across the border.Then the Labrats will give those porkistanese one middle finger. Thats all.
If we assume we support Baluch, then there wont be much difference us and those AHoles.

Unfortunately they don't feel Indian and we feel they are subhuman. Think about the kids who lost their eyes with the inhuman usage of pellet guns. They could have gone with rubber bullets but pellets were chosen for the intimidation factor which is abhorrent to me as an Indian.

They need to be resettled elsewhere which was done with Bangladeshi refugees before the 71 war. Give it 15-20 years and they'll forget Azaadi in lieu of a better life.

Supporting the Baluch might be a problem for us as Pakistan has mastered the art of "non-state" actors since '79 with US training and we suck at black operations. Case in point Sri Lanka and Nepal.
 
We already have an advantage since the west and the European bloc considers porkistan as a terrorist state.
Until recently Chinese have been funding these dogs but now they too stopped because of which they went to the middle East begging for monies.
In US,Europe and Australia reservation areas are put for red Indians and natives and aborigines to bring them into civilised society and at the same time provide them with equal benefits others are enjoying.
Now after 80 years nobody are thinking as natives or aborigines.
Like Marcus said it might take 10-15 years for our boys in J&K to become civilised and become a part of our country.

PS: Even then porkistan will be poking it's fingers. All it will take is remove their state actors.

This takes some more time.
 
Not accurate here at all.
The Sino-Soviet clashes happened in 1969 whereas China just tested their first warheads in 1964 that too with Soviet help. They didn't have any credible delivery mechanism to threaten USSR. In fact it was a limited war smaller than Kargil. It was more of a pissing contest since Nikita Kruschev basically denounced Stalin's policies and that pissed off Mao a lot as he was pretty chummy with Stalin and used the same Stalinist policies in China.

All other examples you cited here are not between two nuclear powers.

-Korean War between US/UK and allied powers directly engaged North Korea and then later China who were supported indirectly by USSR.
-Vietnam was an insurgency for uniting their country where the French pulled the same divide and rule tactic as in India
-Yom Kippur War of '73 had Egypt and Syria on one hand with USSR support and Israel with US support on another. Even though Israel had nukes by 1968 they have always denied the same.
In fact at at one point in the 73 war Israeli PM Golda Meir thought of using nukes as a last resort but the Israelis managed to turn the tide by conventional warfare.
-Afghanistan in the 80's was the Mujahideen supported by US and Saudi against the USSR. Again both sides weren't nuclear.

If you're interested in military tactics devised by the Indian forces look up the Cold Start doctrine concoted by Sundarji.

A small excerpt here.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...mitations_and_Possible_Response_from_Pakistan

This doctrine is a massive headache for the Pakistani military but they have developed tactical nukes which are small nukes designed to hit Indian armored formations after they have penetrated Pakistani borders by about 80 Km and they are unable to push back using conventional means.

These guys are so crazy that they have a policy to nuke their own territory. :O


The NE didn't have much of a outside support and that outside support from India is precisely the reason Bangladesh exists today.
The LTTE defeat was an ethnic cleansing which we Indians cannot do as a principle .Otherwise how are we better than these dogs?
Moreover the international backlash(which would be absolutely justified) would ruin us and set us back by a decade or more. Think about the 1988 Tianamen Square debacle which halted the Chinese economy to a large extent till they got into the WTO in 2001.
The Khmer Rouge was actively supported by the US during the Vietnam war to act as a counterpoint to the Vietcong.
Once the US left and Pol Pot killed a million people in his country no one from the outside was ready to support them.
Hence the Vietnamese could go in and wipe them out.



This is pretty scary. Once these guys have a carte blanche all their focus will be on us. Whether we go hard or go soft it won't matter.

Because they believe that martyrdom buys them a Season Pass to heaven.
You can only defeat an enemy by destroying their will to fight. If thats the carrot in front of them then 100 of them are ready to die to kill one of us.

As for the Kargil War it is a bit funny as the Paki army executed the tactical operation superbly but failed at the strategic level.

Think in case of a broader war in the western theater which will always be the focal point of conflict between Indian and Pakistan due to topography if they had pulled a Kargil parallelly then we would have to divert a substantial portion of our combat power which could be deployed in Rajasthan into routing out these guys from Kargil.

That would include a major chunk of the infantry and almost all of our artillery which is darn limited to this day. So tactically you are locking up a large portion of your enemy by only deploying a couple of regiments of light infantry. Pretty neat.

However being the hothead doofuses they are they played their aces up the sleeve too early which would come in handy in case of a broader war.

Apologies for the long post guys. Problem is no one in my circle is interested in geopolitics. So excuse my rant.:)
I like to see this happen once before I die fellows.
I mean the bold parts of the quoted text.
 
Don't stake too much on the western goodwill. In '71 all of them sided with Pakistan. International goodwill is a fickle b**ch my friend.

What really irks me is the knee jerk reactions I am seeing among all my friends and relatives that we should attack Pakistan with zero idea of what it entails. None of them are willing to take up arms though. Its easy to rattle sabers when you won't be wielding the saber in the battlefield.

At best what we can expect is a "surgical" strike which will be hyped a lot. In fact we have been carrying out black tit-for-tat strikes like these for a long time but they were never confirmed by a government to score political brownie points.

Admitting your troops crossed the border is a declaration of war and even Pakistan maintained plausible deniability in Kargil.

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...ndias-first-here-are-the-previous-ones/313158
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/surgical-strikes-unnecessarily-hyped-war-veterans/327753
https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/cms/blog/8785-the-uri-fiasco.html

Ultimately it will be a tantra mantra fix for cancer.

The only solution is all out nuclear war which no one will win or resettle the Kashmiris and make Indians out of them. If you take away grassroots support no insurgency can survive e.g. Khalistan.
 
People who think war is a solution haven't learnt ANYTHING from history.

As an example just look at the USA, one of the best equipped fighting forces. Look at the end result of every conflict. The only real winner is the arms sales lobbies.
 
The biggest problem in India is the alienation, hostility and belittlement of people different than themselves using any excuse they can muster. No, its not done as a just a knee jerk reaction and its not just Kashmiri's who face it. Just check out how people of NE states are treated in India. Its a systemic problem. I have friends from both regions who have faced such hostility or belittlement in other regions.

View attachment 78826


People say that India is all about about unity in diversity. But there is no unity to be seen except in practicing discrimination. Our history itself rife with it and is the proof. The people labeled as :"lower castes" were more than happy to join the British or anybody else they could, and fight for them against fellow countrymen.They were right too in doing so. When you reject and alienate people, they will look for a place or group they can belong to. Many religious conversions came about for the same reason.

This was also how Partition of the country came about ultimately. Calling Pak as Porkistan as an insult is another example of that sort of belittlement tendency. Don't forget that the region we call Pak today is also part of the same Indian sub continent and considered part of Hindustan till just 70 years ago. People don't change just by drawing an imaginary line one fine day. What ever you call them is a reflection of our mindset too.

India has a long history. People brag about it, but the only thing they don't seem to do is learn from it.
This post needs a triple like. :)
 
I like to see this happen once before I die fellows.
I mean the bold parts of the quoted text.
Ehhh...... That'll be the last thing you'll see if you live in the metro cities buddy.
Pakistanis policy differentiates between tactical and strategic nukes but India doesn't . If Pakistan drops a nuke on our troops even in their territory India will go all out nuclear winter as we have a no first strike policy.

The desperate nuclear counterattack at that point from Pakistan will vaporize a few of our major cities. Pakistan will cease to exist but so will quite a large chunk of India.

And that my friends is why MAD was the reason behind US and USSR never going head to head but pissing away in proxy wars.

The US trained their general population in nuclear war drills a lot in the 50s so that they had an understanding of what nuclear war entails.

Unfortunately our general population knows nothing. :(
 
People also clearly have no idea what a surgical strike is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_strike

And from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_Line_of_Control_strike#Surgical_strikes:

"UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon said that the UN Observer Group in Pakistani Kashmir did not directly observe any "firing across the Line of Control" relating to the incident.[38][39] The Indian envoy at UN Syed Akbaruddin dismissed this statement, saying "facts on the ground do not change whether somebody acknowledges or not."[39]

Analyst Sandeep Singh, writing in The Diplomat, said that the operation is better characterised as a cross-border raid because "surgical strikes" involve striking deep into the enemy territory and typically using air power.[40]"

Also, found this online:

4a0cb2f8-fb12-4049-8306-25b1f97c8f78.jpg
 
People also clearly have no idea what a surgical strike is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_strike

And from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_Line_of_Control_strike#Surgical_strikes:

"UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon said that the UN Observer Group in Pakistani Kashmir did not directly observe any "firing across the Line of Control" relating to the incident.[38][39] The Indian envoy at UN Syed Akbaruddin dismissed this statement, saying "facts on the ground do not change whether somebody acknowledges or not."[39]

Analyst Sandeep Singh, writing in The Diplomat, said that the operation is better characterised as a cross-border raid because "surgical strikes" involve striking deep into the enemy territory and typically using air power.[40]"

Also, found this online:

View attachment 78828
Its not black and white but a grey area. There are no good answers to this cycle of violence. There is no right and no wrong.
Now the army will take harsh measures against the locals which will raise another crop of teenagers ready to kill Indians-both military and civilians.

BTW the cross-border raid did happen but you are going into semantics a bit too much.
 
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