What exactly is Government of India doing?


nikhilavasthi

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Testing will not prevent deaths. The US is testing a lot but the idiots haven't closed any borders nor the domestic flights.
India did the correct think of locking down, if they had give a week time the migrants would have spread it everywhere. To not let the country health care system overload, lock down is the only viable solution the world has.

Just in my zip code there are 265 people who are in home quarantine as of 24 march, you can bet those family members still went out, since they don't have the quarantine stamps on their hand and the maids would have spread it even more. In bangalore there are about 15000 people who are in home quarantine, mostly because they arrived via a international flight. With most being arrivals from mecca.

To the bangalore folks, I have some info which may not be in the news or be known by media persons, please don't ask me how or from where I get this info. But its accurate.
In bangalore the police are instructed to let migrants and homeless take shelter in marriage halls with the government providing free food and medicines.
I can also say that the police have been instructed not to collect traffic fines and gently speak to people or plead them to stay at home. Only repeated offenders will have there vehicles ceased.
They have also allowed dog owners to go for a walk but not venture any further then their house or so. Those idiots who joy ride will have their vehicles ceased be it two wheeler or 3 wheeler or 4 wheeler, without any questions, in my area I saw members of the peace full community who can be easily identified since they remove both mirrors in their two wheeler and ride in triples or do wheelies or ride really fast.

I see educated families take a drive out. People playing cricket, minors learning to drive. Because of idiots like these and above, the online delivery folks will be asked to show their pass each time.

Also if you have a personal pass you don't need a vehicle pass anymore. Government employees of state and central and media do not need any other pass apart from their ID cards.

These instructions have been sent to every police in bangalore.
Atleast in Bangalore, the water supply will not be stopped if one doesn't pay the bill.
Did you saw any kind of people education/awareness done; other than beating down the ones found out on road or warnings (and Mann ki Baat).

Only fear - what is seen in your post too; we don't know what is the exact situation till the time most of us are tested and also made aware if you're a healthy stay at home (& don't go out unless it's necessary) and if you're not keeping well prefer to go to the hospital instead of isolating yourself and passing it down the illness to others (current lockdown is not doing it).

Abbott kit seems to make testing quicker.
 

blr_p

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Around 75% of the population is complying with the guidelines, by maintaining distance and wearing masks or kerchiefs. But there are people who keep going around like nothing is happening.
If people wear masks that stops the spread. I've seen almost 95% of people wearing them where i live. Even a scarf is good enough. Acceptable even in China where its mandatory to wear or 14 day detention in quarantine.

Clearly, many governments did not anticipate or chose to ignore the extent of movement that would happen when a lockdown is announced. It happened in Chennai after Modi's announcement of 21 day curfew. Huge crowds gathering in bus stands and railway stations to try and catch a trip to their hometown. Even worse was what happened yesterday at Anand Vihar, New Delhi. :(
If it happens, it happens but does not negate the larger game plan.

Listen to WHO's MIchael Ryan

“If you need to be right before you move, you will never win. Perfection is the enemy of the good when it comes to emergency management. Speed trumps perfection”
 

adder

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Did you saw any kind of people education/awareness done; other than beating down the ones found out on road or warnings (and Mann ki Baat).

Only fear - what is seen in your post too; we don't know what is the exact situation till the time most of us are tested and also made aware if you're a healthy stay at home (& don't go out unless it's necessary) and if you're not keeping well prefer to go to the hospital instead of isolating yourself and passing it down the illness to others (current lockdown is not doing it).

Abbott kit seems to make testing quicker.
In my area I see atleasta a dozen annoucements made by auto rickswhaw with speakers telling people to stay at home, you also see police using their on board address system to send the message. The media is the one who should be putting out public awareness messages instead of some product Ad.

My relatives in the US many have fever and chills and they couldn't even test it, it could have been flu or a corona. In India we have one of the worlds largest diabetic population. There will be crores killed.

The only way to beat this is keep washing hands and avoid as much physical contact with another human.

I daily sanitize my driveway, gate etc each time after a online delivery is done. I was my hands and disinfect switches, tv remote every day, multiple times.

I also feed the stray dogs, some are still picky and will not eat any veg food or biscuits. Since these dogs where all used to the non veg left overs of varios hotels or waste food in garbege. Some puppies which are really skinny to their bones eat them.
 
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blr_p

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Their idea of quarantine is to lock up hundreds of people behind metal doors in close proximity. Imagine just a few of them already being infected before being locked up. It would have been better if they let everyone go home without putting them in one place where the chance of getting infected is even higher than if they were left to go to their homes.
If they're infected then they're contained in one place. If they go to the villages then it will be harder to contain. So the plan was correct.

When you see these clips of people walking back. Ask yourself how many stayed back ?

How many left in other words out of the total. If that is the minority then its a leak but its only a small leak.


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I hope the lockdown is lifted after 21 days. I can understand that the PM's ego won't allow him to do so right now as it would be him admitting a mistake but I hope they make some story about flattening the curve or what not and lift it..
It won't be lifted, maybe eased. UK govt has hinted at extending by another 12 weeks.

Lifting only happens when a peak has passed. When we are we supposed to peak ?
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see this

30 crore infected without lockdown do we need that.
Estimate by the virologist i posted in the other thread already 50 cr Indians have H1N1

Have you heard much about H1N1 in India ? why not. 300 died in March last year. Did anyone care ?

The point is the bulk of covid infections will be mild infections curable by OTC medications or chicken soup.

Those serious or critical will be given sedatives to ease their death.

These deaths while extremely regrettable are acceptable. Accept that. This is the default policy any where in the world. But no leader will admit it.

The best you can do is stay unaffected and take precautions. Keep the elderly out of contact with outsiders. No visitors.

Since we have lots of sun, that means our Vitamin D levels will be higher. That makes us more resistant and helps recover.

So what if the numbers of infected spike.

We are going to let this virus run its course and in China it seems that has happened already.

The lock down as in cannot even leave the house lasted in Wuhan for only two month. In fact exactly two months.
 
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red dragon

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Testing is not for preventing death. It's for case identification ( invaluable for asymptomatic cases, where Italy and Spain failed) and isolation. US will surely recover within few weeks. They are testing more than 80 percent in hotspots.
Modi's logic is against established science...trying primordial prevention in stage 2 ( likely 3) epidemic.
 

adder

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The US will recover in a few weeks or a months but with great amount of deaths and infections.
Testing will give you data, its not possible to test so many people. Nor do we have masks or PPE for the medical staff. In India you see doctors travelling with no masks and in groups.

Even if you give them PPE they don't know how to use them.

The US atleast the majority follow social distancing, In India its not going to happen. You see those squares drawn in super markets, yet the vast majority stand with less then a meter space between them.

I think the governemt should give scary death numbers daily, that will scare people to maintain physical distance.

In my street not a single one sanitize their gates or driveway after a online delivery. I wash each and every sealed food packets with soap after each delivery.
 

chiron

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If they're infected then they're contained in one place. If they go to the villages then it will be harder to contain. So the plan was correct.
If the logic is that some of these workers were already infected then we are screwed anyway now. After a while this is going to be qualified as plan was correct but implementation was poorly managed. Anyway, I guess not much we can do except watch this tragedy take its course.
 

red dragon

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...given sedition....my ass!! Do you have any idea how much does propofol/ fentanyl costs?? Moreover India has no clear rule for EOL support.
Don't venture into things after reading few articles.
It takes decades.
If India survives, it will be because of cross immunity.
And please stop with this vitamin D bullshit. Italians have enough sunshine, so is Spain. By that theory UK etc would have been hit worst.
Our knowledge of diet and disease is extremely limited and full of flaws.
Most doctors still believe saturated fat is a major risk factor in atherosclerotic changes in coronaries. There are thousands of studies ,( sponsored by pharmas) responsible for this faulty notion (Google lipitor studies)
Only thing possibly related to nutrition and this is zinc. But consuming zinc wouldn't help. HCQS here is just increasing intracellular zinc level interfering the first stage of reverse transcription ( can go on and on, but will be of no help)
 
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blr_p

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On another note, also see it as blessings (in the form of disguise) of Lord Almighty - https://qz.com/india/1827993/coronavirus-lockdown-means-better-air-quality-for-delhi-mumbai/
I'm giving thanks to the electricity gods since demand is down there will not be many power cuts :)
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If the logic is that some of these workers were already infected then we are screwed anyway now. After a while this is going to be qualified as plan was correct but implementation was poorly managed. Anyway, I guess not much we can do except watch this tragedy take its course.
The slip up is we didn't shut out the Gulf soon enough. We tracked people from other countries sooner. So we need to catch them and monitor them now.


How is Kerela doing ?
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Prices of vegetables have already spiked, chicken that was down to Rs.50/kg has gone up to Rs.190/kg.
Same happened in Wuhan for about a week or so. Price of essentials spiked by a factor of 4. Then things stabilised as supply lines were restored.

The dislocation right now is temporary.

Worst part is people are getting thrashed left, right and center for venturing out even if they have genuine reasons.
Yesterday the delivery boy of a medical store was beaten up badly near my house despite him wearing a badge & uniform plus having med delivery executive label on his bike visor, the store management have lodged a complaint as if that will make any difference.
They are using fear to get people to comply with staying home. News spreads and i'm sure those videos of cops beating people was put out by the cops for this specific purpose.

You see some guys getting lathi charged in the other side of the country and wonder whether you are safe going out.
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It is shocking how chill this govt is to this unfolding disaster which will kill more people than corona has worldwide.
Says who ? this is predicting the future before it has happened.

I don't know if chill is the right word here.

Chill is half measures like was done in Italy. Allowing life to continue as if there is no problem.

If you introduce lock down that is not chill. That is being proactive. That is also trying to pre-empt what you said might happen. It is also a panic move because there is no evidence that lockdowns are effective at curbing exposure because what is the compliance rate ? If you instill fear then compliance rises.

Taiwan & Japan did not impose lock downs. Lock downs are done because of political pressure. Look busy do something, anything is better than nothing. Shelter in place policy in Wuhan is CCP crapping its pants because they don't know what is happening.
 
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chiron

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You can't logic your way out of the fact that the way this lockdown was implemented was not a big mistake.
 

jujuburi

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I hope the lockdown is lifted after 21 days. I can understand that the PM's ego won't allow him to do so right now as it would be him admitting a mistake but I hope they make some story about flattening the curve or what not and lift it..
If anything it will be extended. And it should be quite honestly. I am not sure how to manage foods now, especially vegetables.
 

chiron

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How is Kerela doing ?
Nice intentional misspelling. I agree that Kerala govt and communist supporters tooting their horn about measures being taken in Kerala might have inspired center to announce the lockdown in this retarded game of political one-up manship.

If you instill fear then compliance rises.
If you provide information instead of instilling fear, maybe people will be better prepared and confident. This instilling fear idea was the justification for one of my colleagues in sharing fake videos about this. People in panic will stay put apparently.
 
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red dragon

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blr_p You probably have not seen a mildly symptomatic Corona patient, after seeing at least a thousand, you can identify a pattern ( Fever not going above 101, absent to minimum headaches or body-ache, a very bad dry cough, worsens at night and the worst of all, a very vague chest tightness which sometimes worsens with movement, like pluritic pain, this thing worsens in bad patients and they straightaway go to type 2 respiratory failure) Only symptomatic relief India can afford seems to be paracetamol. Very very few centers have something basic like high flow nasal oxygen or a BIPAP machine. And bronchodilators and inhalational steroids will definite run out of stock.
It is not that easy. Symptomatic treatment is not always OTC drugs.
Optimism is great, but without zero practical knowledge it is dangerous.
 

blr_p

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You can't logic your way out of the fact that the way this lockdown was implemented was not a big mistake.
Tell me that by years end. You cannot say it is a big mistake now.

Logic works with people who understand it.
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Nice intentional misspelling. I agree that Kerala govt and communist supporters tooting their horn about measures being taken in Kerala might have inspired center to announce the lockdown in this retarded game of political one-up manship.
Well, that is the opposite of what the right wingers i follow advise.

They want Kerala quarantined from the country. They think Kerala will become the epi-centre in India.

Quarantine Kerala to save India. That is the short blunt message.

It's not entirely clear to me why they think that. From a political stand point Kerala is another J&K in the making. That we know.

Many from the gulf made it back and the govt there has not kept a close eye on them. In fact it has forgotten about them. If there are any affected they will be community spread.

The centre has pulled up state govts for this 'gap'. They did not mention any states but i suspect Kerala tops that list.

The gulf from what i can see has been acting promptly and isn't a hot zone like Iran say. Saudis shut Mecca down early. Gulf countries are testing adequately.

The flip side is medical infrastructure is good in Kerala so there's that.
 
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logistopath

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Lockdown is not a mistake. The way it was enforced without taking into consideration the lakhs of migrants, and without making arrangements for smooth functioning of essential services, was a mistake. Govt. had time to plan the whole thing. What irks me more is how the GOI went out of its way to arrange planes to bring Indians from abroad, while doing little for the residents within. Like someone told me, the passports brought the infection, but it is the BPL cards that are getting chemical spray treatment when returning to their homes.
Also, thinking that lockdown alone will help manage the pandemic, is also a huge mistake. I hope the GOI is ready for Stage 3, "whenever that happens".
I'm just praying this all ends well.
 
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psyph3r

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Same happened in Wuhan for about a week or so. Price of essentials spiked by a factor of 4. Then things stabilised as supply lines were restored.
The dislocation right now is temporary.
Where did you get this crystal ball of yours ? Except for vegetables, supplies of any and all products seem to be disrupted, grocery shops shelves are getting cleaned up and this is in a tier-II city.
Also no point comparing with Wuhan, China was already reeling with pork supply issues due to African Swine Fever, if food hadn't been provided/subsidized the CCP would've had another Tianenmen on their hands.

They are using fear to get people to comply with staying home. News spreads and i'm sure those videos of cops beating people was put out by the cops for this specific purpose.
Cops are busy forwarding hundreds of videos of police brutality on whatsapp ?
Also, this was not the other part of the country, it was barely 50m away from my house and they thrashed a delivery boy of a medical store. I can only imagine how bad it is in other towns/villages.
 

chiron

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Well, that is the opposite of what the right wingers i follow advise.

They want Kerala quarantined from the country. They think Kerala will become the epi-centre in India.

Quarantine Kerala to save India. That is the short blunt message.

It's not entirely clear to me why they think that. From a political stand point Kerala is another J&K in the making. That we know.

Many from the gulf made it back and the govt there has not kept a close eye on them. In fact it has forgotten about them. If there are any affected they will be community spread.

The centre has pulled up state govts for this 'gap'. They did not mention any states but i suspect Kerala tops that list.

The gulf from what i can see has been acting promptly and isn't a hot zone like Iran say. Saudis shut Mecca down early. Gulf countries are testing adequately.

The flip side is medical infrastructure is good in Kerala so there's that.
Yes, Kerala with its massive NRI population is in danger and localized lockdowns like they tried in Kasargod were good, but doing so for the the whole nation disrupting supply of essential supplies is a mistake no matter what. But nice time to play politics.
 

blr_p

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Lockdown is not a mistake. The way it was enforced without taking into consideration the lakhs of migrants, and without making arrangements for smooth functioning of essential services, was a mistake. Govt. had time to plan the whole thing.
Some times there are no good solutions or answers. This is something i come across frequently in international relations or domestic politics. Every govt including the CCP is getting slammed for implementation. This thing was unknown in Dec. Three months later we are scrambling. China got caught with its pants down. The time pressure is intense. You have to decide whether to save the economy or your people. The information is incomplete. The reliability of the information is in question. The professionals at best are making informed guesses. On this basis you are expected to make coherent policy or as close to as possible.

We are flying blind. Nobody knows what they are doing. We lack proper data to make policy. That data will come soon. Whether mitigation like Japan & Taiwan are doing is better than suppression which we along with numerous other countries are doing presently.

I'm not saying this to scare people but to convey what govts worldwide have to contend with.

Is it manageable ? yes
Are the casualties acceptable ? yes

This is not a civilisation ending moment. This is not the black plague.

What irks me more is how the GOI went out of its way to arrange planes to bring Indians from abroad, while doing little for the residents within. Like someone told me, the passports brought the infection, but it is the BPL cards that are getting chemical spray treatment when returning to their homes.
Should we have followed Pakistan's policy :)

They refused to bring their people back.

Often times govts are assessed based on how they treat their most vulnerable. This is one framework.

My friends wife & son are still stuck in London. The next flight out is mid April and even that is uncertain. So they won't be making it back until later.

Also, thinking that lockdown alone will help manage the pandemic, is also a huge mistake. I hope the GOI is ready for Stage 3, "whenever that happens".
I'm just praying this all ends well.
See, at this point we go back to the comment that said we lose people to many other diseases as well. How much of a statistical bump will this virus be in the grand scheme ?

We lost 300 people to H1N1 only last March. Did anyone tell you that. Did any one care. the number of H1N1 deaths varies by month. But that info i've linked to in the china thread.

In this case we are getting daily status updates from every where in the world.
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Where did you get this crystal ball of yours ? Except for vegetables, supplies of any and all products seem to be disrupted, grocery shops shelves are getting cleaned up and this is in a tier-II city.

Also no point comparing with Wuhan, China was already reeling with pork supply issues due to African Swine Fever, if food hadn't been provided/subsidized the CCP would've had another Tianenmen on their hands.
Crystal ball is studying how things develop in other countries that have gone through similar.

Wuhan gives us an indication of how things will progress. They had 50k cases. Ground zero. Epicentre. You don't think that's a good case to look at. I've been following a guy who blogged about his experience there since this started on Jan 23.

Food was not an issue. It's not an issue even in hurricane hit areas of the US. The kind that leave nothing above 15 ft standing. I've spoken to people who experienced that. You get MRE packs and that is all you get for like two months. But you do not go hungry.

As I said temporary.

And if we don't provide food either through community canteens or similar then we face the same problems as well for that matter.

I lived through 9/11 there were community kitchens in the city for two months.


Cops are busy forwarding hundreds of videos of police brutality on whatsapp ?
Also, this was not the other part of the country, it was barely 50m away from my house and they thrashed a delivery boy of a medical store. I can only imagine how bad it is in other towns/villages.
The reason they are being brutal is because people aren't complying with the shut down.

I suspect these videos come from the cops because the camera angles are good. At least of the ones on youtube. Made for public consumption.

They are slowly learning how to use social media to achieve their goals. This is good.

Am not questioning what you've said at all. It's an anecdote along with many i've heard. The message is stay in.

Once they sort these lock down passes things will ease.
 
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nikhilavasthi

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All in all - why this entire discussion is happening cause we (as a global community) are fighting this Coronavirus. It's a disease/infection for Rags & riches - it does not discriminate - like Lord Almighty does to us - had it been something related to rags only; nobody would have bothered except WHO and other humanitarian institutions.

Focus on helping poor, and needy & outcome will be different.
 
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blr_p

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Yes, Kerala with its massive NRI population is in danger and localized lockdowns like they tried in Kasargod were good, but doing so for the the whole nation disrupting supply of essential supplies is a mistake no matter what. But nice time to play politics.
Disrupting essential supplies is the exact opposite of what they should do. They've snapped links first and now the ones that are deemed essential will be established.

Now as for Kerela. Many reassuring things i'm hearing here

De-centralised health system. Easily applied at the local level

Community health networks in place. These people will be the heroes

Experience in battling viral infections, H1N1, dengue, Nipa etc

Disease surveillance system strengthened. Community doctors involved.

Delegations from all surrounding states visited and took notes.

Kerela model has lots to learn from.

Maybe those comments about containing Kerala are not aware of these facts on the ground. Same applies for the entire country. When comparing with western countries presently in distress.

We will see :)