Apple introduces over-ear AirPods Max for Rs 59,900

Shubham1401 said:

So instead what they do is they have subscribed to the Apple ecosystem. Its true that they pay a premium but they have the surety that they will get a way above average user experience. Apple has had a great track record with their devices and that's how they have built this trust.

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bang on. I bought my first iPhone (6s) on launch day because I was in the airport and was able to get my hands on one. wanted to showoff to everyone in India. but after a month I hated it. switched back to galaxy 6 edge. The reason that got me into apple eco system was that I was really pissed off. my last android phone was Mi Mix. I broke it within a month (ceramic body) and felt cheated. got a iPhone 7 I think pleasantly surprised not to see ads in play store, spam software from tmobile that you have to explicitly disable etc...

There is definitely apple tax that you have to pay to be a part of the eco system. but, for some people its worth it instead of day to day hassle. But, calling people who use apple products stupid even without using apple products is asinine.

As @reddragon mentioned, there is a lot of promise with computational audio. I have home pod mini that I use day to day and computational audio sounds really good. Throwing in a really powerful chip along with speakers is something no one is doing in the market currently. Before getting my AirPods Pro, I got Sony WF1000X, piece of shit earphones. to give you a simple example, the app would hassle me to update the firmware. but to update is successfully, I had to start the update process, keep the phone in my hand so that I won't go to sleep and keep the ear phones nearby. cannot connect the power charging to the earphones box, cannot put the earphones in the box, cannot let the phone go to sleep, cannot receive calls. miss any of these conditions, restart all over again and make sure that the earphones have 100% charging. it was like the update was taking me hostage. which idiot does something like this? I am saying this because I see everyone singing praises for Sony audio. I can make a big list of shitty design decisions about this earphones.

I brought XM4 in the discussion to give an idea about how bad sounding headphones get hyped!! Sure it has excellent ANC but you can get slightly inferior ANC ( perfectly usable) but MUCH better sound from cheaper options.
By Apple's innovation I didn't only mean hardware.
You guys seem to forget Apple owns one of the best ( if not the best) DAW in the market for music production.
Compared to most other DAWs LPX is not only powerful but extremely easy to use and learn. They even bought the most powerful software synth from Camel Audio and integrated it beautifully with LPX ( for free!!)
In fact the whole package itself costs 200USD and you can produce any genre of music from completely within the box!!
Almost every EQ, every compressor even amp sims are absolutely top notch ( a good amp sim pack can cost more than the DAW itself)
If eMagic was still selling this DAW, it would cost no less than Cubase Pro/ Ableton 10 full suite ( close to 700USD!! or more!!!)
When we talk about ecosystem, we often forget about the absolutely awesome Logic remote for iPad.
You can spend literally thousands on a DAW control surface for Logic, but the free remote from Apple beats them all by a significant margin.
Since it's about audio, not mentioning about other production softwares from Apple. I've seen my friends ( with more than 15 year experience in video editing) struggle with Adobe Premiere Pro after switching to Windows.
TLDR, Apple does know very well about audio production ( way more than Sony/ Sennheiser etc.) and computational audio. And this thing may be an exceptionally good option.

msankadi said:

Pure hypothetical and fabricated comparisons and assumptions. Totally baseless.

Companies like Sony and Grado have had a great history of excellent products and consumer experience. Better than I have had with apple products.


They told my wife that there was water damage in her iphone when their was not just to avoid providing any service. Recently my in laws MacBook conked off after 15 months. Cost of repair in case 1 was 19k and 40k in second case. Apple service is pathetic in India and coupled with their unserviceable product designs it is below average not exceptional.

Don't know why people have started equating Sony and other quality audio manufacturers to bad devices and customer experience. It is clear because they just want to push their agenda and push any narrative which suits their needs. Now they are bringing Chinese phone manufactures and equating them to Sony!

What has happened is these people have just bought into stories heard from the US, prices heard from the US and applied it blindly to Indian market. In India the price AND service of apple is unfavorable. Or they simply live in the US and are fanboys so just pushing their stories without context of geography in India

Heck people aren't even aware that this apple headphone is priced 3X compared to the sony ones in India, they just keep parroting the US price. Heck even better sounding ones than Sony are available at half the price of apple ones.

Any altu faltu made up reasons and justifications are being made up to justify the price and why people buy products not worth the price to show off or because of lack of information

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Pure hypothetical and fabricated comparisons and assumptions. Totally baseless.

Well for me it was MacOS that made me switch to Apple. I didn't want to use Linux and deal with it's hassles. MacOS has Homebrew so every major software package available on other distros is available. On top of that it can sync with my phone unlike Windows. We only have to deal with 1 company. I said this earlier too, people ignore software especially us Indians and are ready to use laggy skins if the phone is cheap but has good hardware. We never want to pay for software or the experience.

For me Apple provided great service, they replaced my MacBook Pro screen free of cost that costed 35k. It was under an International replacement program so that could be the reason. Many service centres are 3rd party in India, I dealt with Reliance ResQ which was dedicated to Apple.

msankadi said:

Just out of curiosity which phone do you have that can't sync with windows. Phones i have used till now from lenovo to mi to Samsung to realme just connect with windows via mtp without any software at all.

Maybe your phone manufacturer has purposefully blocked the sync with windows to just make it unfriendly in windows? Or if you are using company phone maybe company has blocked it

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This is not the sync I was talking about, learn what is iCloud sync or what benefits we get if we run same apple id on a Mac computer and iPhone.

There is a thing called Mac Handoff, google it.

msankadi said:

I would strongly urge you to try linux distros if you have never done it. They have come very far compared to even past 3-5 years. Just try a basic one like Ubuntu or Manjaro and you'll forget mac and windows. Am 90% sure you can get by without ever using a terminal on linux now if you're concerned about that

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I have used Linux fairly well, tried all popular distros. I spend most of my time in terminal, so I know what I am talking about.

Compared to experience a MacBook can give with all its multitouch gestures and retina screen, a comparable Linux ultrabook is only a distant dream.

I think this thread has become another Apple hate thread like the M1 thread. The discussion should be limited to the product in question.

As far as I know, there has not been any major reviews out yet about the sound quality. So let's rest the speculations and name-calling till the reviews are out.
A 60k pair of headphones is not for everyone anyways. I personally am not an over-the-ear headphone guy and would not have gone for it even if it costed 20k.

Now the main question is whether it is at the enthusiast level or not. There are other headphones with similar or even higher prices like Sennheiser HD800. So I would like to see how audio experts feel about this product.

All in all, Apple has the history of being mocked for unique and pricy products at launch only to be sold at large volumes and then copied by other companies.

Guys, please understand that the target audience of this will mostly be people already owning other apple products. If they are happy with their existing apple hardware they will, without hesitation, money permitting, will buy this audio device.

Those people may not even be audiophiles so they don't have anything to reference against either. All they want is nice set of cans and since they know apple is nice (company), they just buy.

The number of people who will do all these comparisons only reside on forums like ours and reddit. We form probably 0.01%.

msankadi said:

Pure hypothetical and fabricated comparisons and assumptions. Totally baseless.

Companies like Sony and Grado have had a great history of excellent products and consumer experience. Better than I have had with apple products.

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I do have/ had at least 4 pairs of Grado including their wireless one and that one particularly is exceptional ( possibly the first really good implementation of DSP correction, one major component of computation audio...)
While Mobius and Nura have been decent, there's nothing special in the second one ( you can't even adjust it on your head without touching and changing some settings.
Sony's XM3/XM4 are examples of absolutely rubbish DSP correction ( who compresses every audio signal with 8:1 ratio for already mixed and mastered music!!??)
I'm no expert in headphone manufacturing, but know little bit of audio engineering after 10-15 years in it.
Also presently a Windows user, have used Macs and iOS extensively for more than a decade.
Android and Windows 10 are great, but when it comes to audio production, Apple leads by a long long margin. Sure, some of their stupid decisions like removing USB A from laptops made a huge negative impact and many moved to Windows ( we love our old analog gears a lot more than a computer/ OS/ company) but that was and still is a painful procedure.
There are certain things Apple knows better than anybody at least in music industry. This is the single reason why still have some faith in this headphone.

Apple gave birth to two major things in music industry, iPod and iTunes. In the age of cassette and CD they were already distributing already all their music digitally though iTunes.

https://www.aimm.edu/blog/how-itunes-changed-the-music-industry

Audio engineering is an EXACT science, perception of audio quality is subjective BUT quality audio is not subjective at all. If you have tracked/played everything, mixed and mastered a piece of music using some studio monitors, you can very well pick the pair of headphones from your collection which is most natural for it.
I have tested at least 12 headphones (all wired of course) with our (sub-par content, average at best in mixing/ mastering) music only and can confidently say only one pair excelled almost every time. It is a pair of NDH20, a rather expensive, very heavy and often uncomfortable pair of headphones. You will be amazed to know which pair did the worst in measurements....the audiophile darling HD600 even with 1000 USD solid state amp (even worse with an crazy expensive tube amp)
But I will be an idiot to choose NDH20 over HD600 for casual listening...that's audiophilia my friends, it defies all logic...Sennheiser's HD 660S is a far more accurate headphone than 800S (820S is a disaster) but how many people with 2000 USD budget will settle for 660S? No one really...that is the reality of personal audio...it is all about marketing and people's perception of audio quality (not quality audio), what is wrong if Apple wants a piece of the pie?
Does the XM4 justify it's price? It sounds like a 50 USD headphone with great ANC and some fancy touch control and an app which helps only to distort the already rubbish DSP chain even more. What if Apple actually gives us an option to tinker with the compression, a proper 8/10 band EQ with Q values etc., a limiter, a reverb unit and other mastering chain component without a stupid misleading UI (like Sony/ Sennheiser companion app)?
I would buy it in a heartbeat even with a higher price tag along with an iphone to use it properly. Give me a LPX like control app...will buy it on the launch day.

Audiophiles mainly those who camp on Head-Fi suffers from GAS ie. gear acquisition syndrome. They never settle on one thing for too long.

I don't think this device is targeted towards audiophiles. It's for those Apple users who are already using ANC headphones or don't like iem in general. Remember those Beats headphones, it was a style statement for many. That crowd is also targeted here.

raksrules said:

Guys, please understand that the target audience of this will mostly be people already owning other apple products. If they are happy with their existing apple hardware they will, without hesitation, money permitting, will buy this audio device.

Those people may not even be audiophiles so they don't have anything to reference against either. All they want is nice set of cans and since they know apple is nice (company), they just buy.

The number of people who will do all these comparisons only reside on forums like ours and reddit. We form probably 0.01%.

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Over the years I have noticed one things, all pure audio consumption forums ( head fi, reddit sub forums) are vague and do not help at all( for the newcomers), they just keep on accumulating gear after gear. However forums like KVR etc while not dedicated to headphones or speakers usually help a lot in learning the headphone/IEM/ speakers you actually need for the purpose of consumption also.
Producers/ musicians/ mixing mastering enthusiasts do not usually describe sound in vague terms, for them it is frequency, loudness, length of reverb tail (for air in music!!), compression, ratio, knee etc. (for punchy bass) transients (for detail retrieval etc)...just few examples...everything easily measurable, understandable.
A producer forum is more likely to give you better suggestion for headphones and speakers compared to head fi or reddit ( the headphones sub reddit is a bible of lies and stupidities...almost everyone is clueless)
And I really don't understand the hate around Apple here, yes I was an Apple slave for years and still my main machine for all serious audio works ( which earns a little bit of money) is an old iMac, maxed out back home...it's an old workhorse, but still runs like dream with LPX and at least a thousand of 3rd party AU plugins.
I'm pretty sure not many Windows desktop with 128 GB memory, 6th gen i7 won't be able to run Presonus Studio One or the now free Cakewalk even full Ableton suite with so many plugins VSTs.
In certain case scenarios, there is no viable alternative to Apple yet....try the TBs worth of samples in any modern Orchestral library...more than most Windows machines usually crap out after adding more than 20-25 tracks with them...if you're accustomed with Zimmer like soundtracks, you must be knowing the track counts often goes way beyond 100, even modern metal music often has 80/90 tracks easily...each track with minimal 3/4 processing going on plus sends plus instrument busses...it's a complete clusterfuck everytime!!
I can't imagine anything beyond a Mac Pro or iMac for these things ( trust me I truly tried, it just doesn't work seamlessly with Windows)
Microsoft doesn't make Windows to take this kind of workload.
Yes, few studios use Windows, but somebody somewhere in there is using a huge Mac for the final product.
You may hate Apple as much as you want...but Apple is not iphone/ iWatch/ MBP/ MBA only...they are much bigger than that in music industry.
With Avid murduring PT gradually, the whole industry will eventually move over to LPX or DP ( the first one is Mac only, the second one is only making Windows version for very few years)
Ableton Live is great, but not for real instruments/ bands/ orchestral music, it will never be the defacto SW for studios.
Apple is huge in music industry already...and this product has tremendous potentials. I'm sincerely hoping Apple is not targetting Sony's wireless division ( they have Beats...fight crap with crap) rather targetting the audio people ( not the audiophiles...what Sennheiser has started doing..their 560s is a much better option than 650 for audio engineers/ musicians)

Nalin said:

Well for me it was MacOS that made me switch to Apple. I didn't want to use Linux and deal with it's hassles. MacOS has Homebrew so every major software package available on other distros is available. On top of that it can sync with my phone unlike Windows. We only have to deal with 1 company. I said this earlier too, people ignore software especially us Indians and are ready to use laggy skins if the phone is cheap but has good hardware. We never want to pay for software or the experience.

For me Apple provided great service, they replaced my MacBook Pro screen free of cost that costed 35k. It was under an International replacement program so that could be the reason. Many service centres are 3rd party in India, I dealt with Reliance ResQ which was dedicated to Apple.

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Yeah user experience factor doesn't even exist to Indian minds. Even though I've stopped giving damn about Indians long back it still makes me sad from time to time.

MacOS hmm. I should not comment anything about that. I'm a gamer and I don't think a gamer can even imagine about MacOS. God I despise the windows 10 but no option for us really.

sauravghosh said:

Yeah user experience factor doesn't even exist to Indian minds. Even though I've stopped giving damn about Indians long back it still makes me sad from time to time.

MacOS hmm. I should not comment anything about that. I'm a gamer and I don't think a gamer can even imagine about MacOS. God I despise the windows 10 but no option for us really.

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User experience and ease of use is only a factor if you ready to look beyond specs, our desi people read specs only.

MacOS is not made for gaming, it's based on Darwin which in itself is UNIX at its core. For gaming we do have PC/console though.

msankadi said:

What great logic. Make an assumption you are right and then discount the whole world as useless when it doesnt live by your assumptions - the definition of being delusional.

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Apply this on yourself..

The way I see it, If people have enough money to buy these headphones, or any other "overpriced" apple product, good for them. The market will decide the fate of these headphones.

I don't feel there is any need to call apple users any names, if they can spend 60k on these headphones, they're financially well off - be it by being born that way or earning it. Nothing anyone can do about it.