This madness and hype around M1 chip should stop

red dragon

red dragon

Justiceforall
Skilled
Disclaimer: I'm neither an Apple fanboy nor a hater ( was in the "ecosystem" for more than a decade)
A friend of mine located @ Bratislava sold his 16 inch MBP for a 13 inch m1 MBP after watching a lot of YouTube videos for close to a month.
He makes podcasts in Czech/ Slovak and is fairly sucessful with podcasts and voiceovers in local movies.
Now none of his microphones work, none of his interfaces work, and funnily most of his Logic plugins stopped working ( they were working fine, but after an update to Logic, even the native plugins stopped working) To make matters worse the iPad remote app for logic has stopped working too!! Restoring from old time machine backups was a nightmare (everything went smoothly with the previous 16 inch models) he could restore templates for his previous projects from Logic, but the recorded samples( mostly his voice) are all gone ( with some mismatch error)
I came to know about these issues as the guy called me to check if I have any unused Ableton Live 11 license ( luckily I had one)
I also faced similar issues during my brief usage with a m1 Air.
Don't want to lengthen the post anymore. Just few points need to mentioned..
1. A processing chip is not the only component of a laptop, you can't do anything only with a processor.
2. Most of the popular YouTube videos are misleading ( specially the ones about LPX, some are simply outrageous...one talks about adding hundreds of instances of space designer, the convolver reverb in Logic)
3. These laptops are great if you want functionalities of an ipad in shape of a laptop.
4. Please stay away if you're into any audio/ video production and your workflow extends beyond Adobe products.
5. This hype train around this chip needs to stop. There are literally thousands of software companies ( with fabulous products) like Fabfilter/ Valhalla/ Soundtoys who will possibly never ( at least in next couple of years) support this chip.
6. I don't own any m1 laptop, just used one for few days and it kind of behaved like a very fast smartphone ( more like an ipad..)
Really want to ask the owners a simple question..
What can you do in it, what an ipad can not?
It's not an Apple bashing thread and I'm no expert in software/ hardware and know nothing about what goes behind the UI of a software. But I'm very familiar with most of Apple's non iOS softwares. So answers like Photos is lightning fast, iMovies is buttery smooth with 4k videos, browsing, scrolling is awesome etc. won't be of any help.
 
For the use case stated by you, it certainly makes no sense to purchase a M1 because it will take years for compatibility to catch up, at least for software developers who have significant income from Mac and want to put in the effort to develop for it.

It is anecdotal, but a lot of people I know purchased a M1 (specifically Air) recently only because of the performance available within the form factor. There are others who finally made the jump to MacOS for better integration with other Apple devices. Finally, there are those who are frustrated by Microsoft subjecting its users to an ever-lasting beta with Windows 10.

For absolute processing and compatibility, the M1 certainly doesn't make sense but you get the feeling that Apple is now trying to gain market share by appealing to iPhone and iPad users.
 
red dragon said:
Disclaimer: I'm neither an Apple fanboy nor a hater ( was in the "ecosystem" for more than a decade)
A friend of mine located @ Bratislava sold his 16 inch MBP for a 13 inch m1 MBP after watching a lot of YouTube videos for close to a month.
He makes podcasts in Czech/ Slovak and is fairly sucessful with podcasts and voiceovers in local movies.
Now none of his microphones work, none of his interfaces work, and funnily most of his Logic plugins stopped working ( they were working fine, but after an update to Logic, even the native plugins stopped working) To make matters worse the iPad remote app for logic has stopped working too!! Restoring from old time machine backups was a nightmare (everything went smoothly with the previous 16 inch models) he could restore templates for his previous projects from Logic, but the recorded samples( mostly his voice) are all gone ( with some mismatch error)
I came to know about these issues as the guy called me to check if I have any unused Ableton Live 11 license ( luckily I had one)
I also faced similar issues during my brief usage with a m1 Air.
Don't want to lengthen the post anymore. Just few points need to mentioned..
1. A processing chip is not the only component of a laptop, you can't do anything only with a processor.
2. Most of the popular YouTube videos are misleading ( specially the ones about LPX, some are simply outrageous...one talks about adding hundreds of instances of space designer, the convolver reverb in Logic)
3. These laptops are great if you want functionalities of an ipad in shape of a laptop.
4. Please stay away if you're into any audio/ video production and your workflow extends beyond Adobe products.
5. This hype train around this chip needs to stop. There are literally thousands of software companies ( with fabulous products) like Fabfilter/ Valhalla/ Soundtoys who will possibly never ( at least in next couple of years) support this chip.
6. I don't own any m1 laptop, just used one for few days and it kind of behaved like a very fast smartphone ( more like an ipad..)
Really want to ask the owners a simple question..
What can you do in it, what an ipad can not?
It's not an Apple bashing thread and I'm no expert in software/ hardware and know nothing about what goes behind the UI of a software. But I'm very familiar with most of Apple's non iOS softwares. So answers like Photos is lightning fast, iMovies is buttery smooth with 4k videos, browsing, scrolling is awesome etc. won't be of any help.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.. Paid reviews, buyer's bias often lead to a plethora of hyped up reviews trying to shout over each other to get some clicks... It eventually settles down..meanwhile it leads to a lot of people stuck with regret buys because they got swayed by half baked false reviews, who are stuck trying to justify their purchases to themselves and the world

Nothing much has changed. If anything this should push other laptop makers to make better laptops for oses that are compatible with all apps and are used by almost 80-90% of users around the world
 
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The hype around M1 chip needs to stop.. based on anecdotal experience of a sample set of a grand total of 1 user?

Companies have tried and failed in the past whenever someone has deviated from x86. This is a major achievement.

Here's why it should go on:
1. X86 has been going strong for decades now but don't you think it could be a great thing if we have another architecture for mainstream computers in future? Competition is good right?
2. Cross compatibility between apps from in phones and PCs.
3. Battery life and lower heat emission for the same performance. M1 macs have insane battery life, no fans, instant wake up just like phones.


I do admit that M1 may not be great at everything right now but it is in its infancy. It would understandably lag behind the very mature Intel/AMD desktop counterparts. Anyone buying right now is an early adopter and should do their research before jumping ship. I'd myself wait another 2-3 years before switching (if that ever happens). But do I want the hype to stop? No. Its a win-win for everyone.
 
Not one user mate, look into a little deeper in YouTube who actually " create" things with computers, not only consume...all of them have said basically the same thing. Eli ( the computer guy) basically not a noob ( like most famous spec sheet readers kind of reviewers) and into these things for years basically tore the myth of a powerful but presently practically useless chip in a laptop. He's a hardcore Mac user.
What exactly is the major achievement when their own so called "Pro" softwares stutter under this chip even with some native effects.
Some stupid youtuber bragged about space designer, try running 3-4 instances of the Logic's most amazing Synth...you will see the truth.
Make a master signal chain with 3 native compressor, EQ, limiter, expander, limiter in that order ( the most basic master signal chain) the laptop will crap out, a 3 minute song will take 25-30 minutes to export. You call this a pro computer?
It's not about a single user, take out your M1 machine, try to restore from a 3 year old time machine back up and while it's restoring try to listen to some music with Bluetooth...see what happens!!
If 2 drops of liquid get through the keyboard, say bye bye to your new laptop, no one ( even Apple themselves) won't be able to fix the minimal corrosion of the logic board. A minute crack on the screen, you must replace the entire front panel including the webcam and those things aren't covered in Apple care.
Even in EU with very strict consumer protection laws people are having problems replacing faulty M1 machines, no idea how much Apple India will loot given their already awesome reputation.
No 3rd party repair store even touch these M1 machines.
You call this progress? A new chip which silently takes away your eGPU option...innovation huh!!
I'm still waiting for 1 task which these machines can do that an ipad can't.
IMHO it's a complete win for Apple and a total disaster for early adopters who use their laptops for real work ( which can't be done on an ipad or phone)
Regarding battery...if 99 percent of your work is inside a browser and watching videos, ipad has better battery, much easier to carry around and has plenty of good keyboards.
And what's so "pro" about this usage scenario, Chromebooks are doing it ( albeit slowly...but time is not really be of any concern for such user)
Even the ridiculous airpod max can be defended ( except that bra) for the ANC and very decent SQ, but this thing is a complete rip off...they are basically selling an ipad in an old dated laptop body!!
Regarding Apple fixing issues...
We make fun of X86 failures, but how can we forget Apple's crazy maps after so many years...try it in any country in EU, you will see, it's not only bad, but rather dangerous!!
Name one single non iOS software Apple fixed completely yet..any one single software.
Have you used Apple's Number? It's still miles behind other common often free office suits ( let alone Excel) For how many years it's around? Remember iWork CDs? ( Yes, I'm old but being old has spme advantages, you can see progression, regression in case of Apple clearly since 2012)
Just think about it once...Native Instruments promised to update everything for M1 3 months back, even Kontakt is not fully fixed yet...multi out doesn't work properly under Rosetta 2 and now the latest version just crashes. Heard of ilok? Try the SW version in the M1 machines, it will simply lock you out of all your thousand dollars softwares.
Even small softwares like Pixelomator doesn't work. How many examples do you want?
Now things that work
1. Major browsers
2. Native email client
3. iOS counterparts including iMovies, photos, garage band
4. If course Siri and the awesome PDF viewer ( preview)
Can you earn a living with GarageBand and iMovies? If so, I will pay you for some guidance.
 
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red dragon said:
Not one user mate, look into a little deeper in YouTube who actually " create" things with computers, not only consume...all of them have said basically the same thing. Eli ( the computer guy) basically not a noob ( like most famous spec sheet readers kind of reviewers) and into these things for years basically tore the myth of a powerful but presently practically useless chip in a laptop. He's a hardcore Mac user.
What exactly is the major achievement when their own so called "Pro" softwares stutter under this chip even with some native effects.
Some stupid youtuber bragged about space designer, try running 3-4 instances of the Logic's most amazing Synth...you will see the truth.
Make a master signal chain with 3 native compressor, EQ, limiter, expander, limiter in that order ( the most basic master signal chain) the laptop will crap out, a 3 minute song will take 25-30 minutes to export. You call this a pro computer?
It's not about a single user, take out your M1 machine, try to restore from a 3 year old time machine back up and while it's restoring try to listen to some music with Bluetooth...see what happens!!
If 2 drops of liquid get through the keyboard, say bye bye to your new laptop, no one ( even Apple themselves) won't be able to fix the minimal corrosion of the logic board. A minute crack on the screen, you must replace the entire front panel including the webcam and those things aren't covered in Apple care.
Even in EU with very strict consumer protection laws people are having problems replacing faulty M1 machines, no idea how much Apple India will loot given their already awesome reputation.
No 3rd party repair store even touch these M1 machines.
You call this progress? A new chip which silently takes away your eGPU option...innovation huh!!
I'm still waiting for 1 task which these machines can do that an ipad can't.
IMHO it's a complete win for Apple and a total disaster for early adopters who use their laptops for real work ( which can't be done on an ipad or phone)
Regarding battery...if 99 percent of your work is inside a browser and watching videos, ipad has better battery, much easier to carry around and has plenty of good keyboards.
And what's so "pro" about this usage scenario, Chromebooks are doing it ( albeit slowly...but time is not really be of any concern for such user)
Even the ridiculous airpod max can be defended ( except that bra) for the ANC and very decent SQ, but this thing is a complete rip off...they are basically selling an ipad in an old dated laptop body!!
Regarding Apple fixing issues...
We make fun of X86 failures, but how can we forget Apple's crazy maps after so many years...try it in any country in EU, you will see, it's not only bad, but rather dangerous!!
Name one single non iOS software Apple fixed completely yet..any one single software.
Have you used Apple's Number? It's still miles behind other common often free office suits ( let alone Excel) For how many years it's around? Remember iWork CDs? ( Yes, I'm old but being old has spme advantages, you can see progression, regression in case of Apple clearly since 2012)
Just think about it once...Native Instruments promised to update everything for M1 3 months back, even Kontakt is not fully fixed yet...multi out doesn't work properly under Rosetta 2 and now the latest version just crashes. Heard of ilok? Try the SW version in the M1 machines, it will simply lock you out of all your thousand dollars softwares.
Even small softwares like Pixelomator doesn't work. How many examples do you want?
Now things that work
1. Major browsers
2. Native email client
3. iOS counterparts including iMovies, photos, garage band
4. If course Siri and the awesome PDF viewer ( preview)
Can you earn a living with GarageBand and iMovies? If so, I will pay you for some guidance.
Click to expand...
I can add my experience on apple care in India. It was pathetic relative to the amount you are paying. This is completely contrary to what people paddle, either by just using firangs apple care or based on their assumptions without actually using it.

They told us that the phone had been water damaged and the whole motherboard needs to be changed.
This was under warranty and no the device wasn't water damaged. God knows maybe some sweat crept in to trigger the water pads in the device or they were just lying. They were rude too. And this is in bangalore the supposedly best or second best city for such things.

Any which ways, it was a terrible experience and a very rude awakening compared to the one sided biased reviews from users who have probably never used apple care, at least in India.
On top of that, the phone was made in such a way that anyone from outside wasn't able to repair. So, basically either pay up or give in the sunk cost.

For xiaomi mi3 on the other hand, we had a very different experience, though the service center was pathetic and long queues were there. The local shops were willing to change the screen and battery in something like 3k, and the service center charged just 4k at the time. For the original parts, I thought the 1k premium was worth it.

Dell warranty was amazing too. I used to have a Dell xps 15 sometime from 2013-15. It was covered under complete Dell warranty for I think 2 years. I got the keyboard changed just like that following some advice from online forums. They covered shattered screens and accidental coverage too. Best of all, it was same day or next day guarantee in bangalore. Very prompt and on site. Best of all, they didn't treat me as a cash cow but genuinely wanted to "repair" my device.

I guess repair is a word apple has deliberately deleted from its dictionary as it is better to not repair to earn more.
 
Apple is very rude in Europe also. But EU has very strict consumer protection laws, Apple knows it very well but they will try their best to delay refunds/ replacements.
In Vienna Sennheiser has a service centre ( plus their biggest showroom) very close to Apple's, some disgruntled customer went to the Sennheiser with a broken airpod max (the headband somehow got damaged and was partially held together by some tape, Apple refused to repair it), the young lady was planning to get a cheaper wireless headphones from Sennheiser.
The Sennheiser guys found an unboxed 450 ( an inexpensive BTNC headphone) and sold it to her for 75EUR and removed the tapes she applied over the top mesh of the torn headband and covered the entire headband with a leather like cover with a zipper and used some kind of a stapler like device to secure both ends of the cover with the headband. Except the obvious colour mismatch, it was completely usable again. And this process took less than 5 minutes and she paid 10 bucks for the leather like band. The Sennheiser repair guy even apologized for the colour mismatch!!
The atmosphere of these 2 stores were also completely different, the Apple store was obviously more busy with all the salesmen trying to push for a quick sale, some customers threatening to call police, some mad over alleged liquid spills ( that's a common theme in all Apple stores in the world)
The Sennheiser receptionist talked to me about music the entire time ( I went to replace the PXC550) They didn't have stock on that day but gave me full assurance that they will arrange for a replacement within 2 days (won't even try to repair) since I got it after 3 days, they gave another 2 years warranty as compensation for the delay.
This is the difference between an American and a German family owned business.
Even though they are selling out their consumer division, the service is still top notch. Beside the service, there's this trust factor associated with certain brands.
When it comes to trust, Apple is as bad as HP or Acer.
 
Aren't we supposed to be friends united by common interest in tech here?
I'm not an Apple hater, I love some of their older hardware and new softwares and still use an iMac as main machine back home.
And I learnt something today ( xcode) from one of these M1 threads.
I'm no geek but you don't have to be one to criticize bad service from Apple.
Even the most loyal fan of Apple knows the MacBooks are extremely fragiile ( but last for years if properly babied) and nowadays come with zero repairability or upgradability.
If someone gets offended by these facts, it's his/ her and Apple's problem.
By grace of God Im in a position where I don't have to deny my own experience as I can buy a new Apple laptop if the 1 month old breaks and Apple refuses / can not fix it. But I'm going to give them a very hard time if they refuse to replace or repair the laptop if 2 drops of sweat or water get inside the keyboard and kill the logic board ( or shows signs of water damage while kept in a humid room...it happened with lot of people)
Being an Apple loyalist is perfectly fine unless you start supporting them with every crazy / unfair policies and deny your own experience.
After at least 5-6 Apple laptops, 3 desktops, 7-8 ipads/ iphones in last 12 years Apple doesn't wow me anymore ( most gadgets don't...in recent times only LG made me go completely wow with the weight of the Gram and that was truly a jaw dropping experience, specially compared to the Air I was using at that time)
In fact Gram is the only laptop which still makes me curious ( how strongly it's actually build despite the massive flex of the upper chasis) I have broken enough laptops to know what's durable and dependable and what's not.
And nobody can convince me about the build quality of the current Apple laptop. Those are EXTREMELY fragile, way more than 500EUR plastic lenovo laptops.
calvin1719 said:
Thanks. Hope the quality doesn't suffer.
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It won't. Sennheiser is one of the most friendly and ethical audio gear manufacturers. They won't make a mistake like AKG.
Sure they downsized the consumer division but all of those who lost their jobs are well compensated and many of the technical guys got Job in the newly formed Austrian Audio ( everything arranged by Daniel and Andreas themselves)
 
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Apple's M1 chip is an important development for the PC industry because it kicks the giants AMD & Intel out of their complacent slumber. The M1 archives in a fraction of power what the Ryzen 5XXX and the Intel black hole are capable of. For simple use cases where one needs an acceptably powerful and safe PC, the M1 mac mini is a good choice, but buying Apple products is detrimental to the industry and customers in the long run.

Convergence of x86 and ARM can go two ways,
1) move towards an open standards-based approach adopted by Windows & Android communities, forcing other players to compete,
2) going the Apple way where everything is proprietary and unrepairable and built to increase incompatibility.

Apple is peak capitalism - they build products intentionally designed to reduce customer choice, oppose and delay adoption of industry-wide standards, force the customer to pay more due to lack of choice, and use so generated war chest to outcompete other companies. All of Apple's ecosystem benefits come from them forcing people to stay in the "ecosystem", which is now being adopted by other companies as well.

If the other companies can form a collective and innovate faster / at the pace of Apple then the equilibrium achieved can be wonderful to consumers. Will that happen, nobody knows.

red dragon said:
This is the difference between an American and a German family owned business.
Click to expand...
American companies are good at propaganda and marketing, the internet largely driven by the English language has been a megaphone for them. Take a look at PC and Android hardware ecosystem, the Chinese way of everybody copying one another has done much more for innovation than the closed copyright megacorp approach of the US. The American approach of "go big or go home" is stupid in many ways, but unfortunately in our capitalist society money talks, and usually has the final say.
 
msankadi said:
My advice is not to go and write this on threads that is full of apple loyalists and apologists... For example the m chip hype thread... You will be branded a hater and people will abuse you... Especially some people whose user name starts with a b and ends with o
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who is branding who again?
For everyone who don’t have context. our friend here started personal attacks and when he started getting a taste of his own treatment started whining like a b**ch.
red dragon said:
Can you earn a living with GarageBand and iMovies? If so, I will pay you for some guidance.
Click to expand...
you need to get off your high horse. this is exactly how the smoothbrain got his ass handed to him. condescending tone is what triggers me.
you posted a video from that guy who started claiming that t2 handles audio signal processing and other things which are absolutely bullshit.
 
Need to find a seat...
1616351666587.png
 
booo said:
you need to get off your high horse. this is exactly how the smoothbrain got his ass handed to him. condescending tone is what triggers me.
you posted a video from that guy who started claiming that t2 handles audio signal processing and other things which are absolutely bullshit.
Click to expand...
cdm.link

Apple's latest Macs still suffer from the same audio flaws - CDM Create Digital Music

Apple has unveiled new MacBook Pro models. But that machine still includes the troubled T2 security chip used on all Macs from 2018 onward - and there's no complete fix yet for the audio problems it can cause. So what should you do?
cdm.link cdm.link
There are many threads about external mics not working in 2019 MBPs. You don't need one or it works for you doesn't solve the widespread issue.
If you are on Mac only and Logic is the only DAW that partially work, what else do we have to work with audio?
 
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Didnt read the entire thread apart from first post

There's a hype around M1 chip is because it challenges a long held dominance of x86 architecture. It gives almost the same performance of desktop grade chips at fraction of heat and power. and thats more than enough for casual users, which is majority of laptop desktop market.

It is perfect and support every software out there is? no. but popular software, which majority of users use, like photoshop etc will be optimised for it and that whats make it a product to look out. Already thinking how M2 chip will perform. Will it finally beat desktop grade chips? Its a tantilizing thought
 
adventureguy said:
Didnt read the entire thread apart from first post

There's a hype around M1 chip is because it challenges a long held dominance of x86 architecture. It gives almost the same performance of desktop grade chips at fraction of heat and power. and thats more than enough for casual users, which is majority of laptop desktop market.

It is perfect and support every software out there is? no. but popular software, which majority of users use, like photoshop etc will be optimised for it and that whats make it a product to look out. Already thinking how M2 chip will perform. Will it finally beat desktop grade chips? Its a tantilizing thought
Click to expand...
Agreed. I am not involved in video or audio processing. I have simple requirements like web browsing, watching movies, sometimes type a couple of pages, etc. for that the m1 MacBook Air is sufficient as it lasts longer that typical windows laptop, integrates decently with my iPhone, iPad and airpods. for these reasons, i chose m1 macbook Air.

CPU market is a duopoly in planet earth. So it better to have competition than none.
 
Isn't it easier with an ipad and a keyboard ( for word processing)?
Oh! BTW DaVinci Resolve (V17) can run in native mode with M1 chip and it's indeed super-fast.
I don't know much about resolve ( but have some experience with FCP and video editing in general) but saw somebody working in resolve 17 in a M1 Air. It is really fast even when the laptop is not connected to power!! That's incredible!! Apple must be given a lot of credit for certain things. Please make Logic bug free, will buy an air/ pro without even thinking for a second ( just for this super-fast rendering..will use older gears with Windows and import the projects in the Mac..just a SD card/ USB A slot...)
 
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Damn. Y'all are making me wonder if I should get the ARM based Macs now. :tearsofjoy: Nonetheless, for a casual user who wants the 'Apple Status' in society and does nothing more than watch YouTube, pirate movies, I think M1 Mac is overkill. To a certain extent, even professionals who use Adobe CC can use it, I guess. But for a PC enthusiast or basically someone who wants to tinker and improve the PC, theMac is a huge turnoff. No RAM or even storage upgrade path? No, please. However, there are very fewWindows laptops that can compete with what MacBooks do. The way they ensure that things are smoothly compatible and are well optimized. For me, a casual user who does nothing more than type for long hours and prefera good build and amazing battery life, I think M1 is more than enough. I probably could get away with an iPad but the fact that I need multi window, need proper MS Office and prefer a desktop UI for what I do, I'd take a laptop over an iPad or any tablet for that matter, anyday. Plus, I travel for atleast two hours almost everyday and the form factor of a laptop is justbetter for me.

However, if people wanna buy a Macbook for nothing more than media consumption, I think an iPad would be great for them! Maybe a little bit of word processing can be done too.

Sorry if what I said doesn[t make sense. Not really well educated on the M1 front.
 
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