Black_Hawk
Skilled
Audio Audiophile and gears
- Thread starter icysmoke
- Start date
Okay now it's getting too confusing, how about this, say if we compare earmen Donald dac to something like schiit modi and topping d10s. Would there be significant/negligible difference between these 3 as they all measure equally good.
Well if you objectively compare and they measure the same, then technically there should not be any difference. Subjectively, now that is a different story.
Say if people blind test them would they be able to tell the difference apart? I'm just confused if it's really worth getting expensive DACs as I'm looking for one to use with PC.
People blind testing them would be subjective, isn't it ? I am not saying that is bad, mind you. Its just that I prefer my equipment measuring well enough to justify folks hearing it and going "wow". Maybe if you list your exact requirements the good folks here can give you the appropriate recommendations.
That's the problem, without knowing how big of a wow difference will be there between a usb DAC that costs under 10k with that of a 10k+ one like modi, d10s, how do we choose? I've seen enough reviews but confused if I should get something like btr5 since it's got the same dac as my LG or spend more and get modi/d10s.
rdst_1
Skilled
If you look at them objectively, then no need to buy any new DACs if the one you are using measures well. Even I believe that the DAC tech has developed enough that a good enough SNR is available at quite cheap prices, so don't feel like spending too much on that.
Coming to amps, had a similar discussion in the E1DA discord and even there common consensus was that objectively if one has a powerful enough amp, then no need to upgrade. I think I had similar discussion in this thread as well. But how do you defy what your ears tell you. Placebo would come in effect if you weren't being truthful or trying to justify your purchase but I doubt everyone out there does that. Blind A/B testing would be best way to test if you believe you were having placebo effect.
Then you have no idea how much a good cup of coffee improves the sound.
Jokes apart this is an interesting thread on blind testing.
It's very easy to get drawn into the mumo jumbo of the latest and greatest of the newest DAC from boutique manufacturers and wasting tons of money. I've done it in the past..same mistake over and over again.
If your laptop's built-in DAC and Amp sounds clean enough ( most new laptops do) but can't power some headphones you have, just buy a solid state / hybrid amp. Please don't buy a tube amp ( even if all of your headphones have dynamic drivers) if you have the budget to buy only one amp.
Once you have a basic set up and upgraditis hits, try to buy another headphone first. DAC is the last thing you need to upgrade.
Coming from an idiot who bought both Drop THX789 and A90 within a single month (and still don't have any portable amp or any decent DAP)
Thank God for the WA7, it's such a nice sounding thing that never felt an urge to upgrade.
Don't be a fool like me who just collected audio gears for decades ( still don't know how many IEMs are there in the basement...some are sitting in sealed boxes..) after 2 rounds of house cleanings still have 3 pairs of same headphones..it's madness. Please be careful with your audio purchases ( now all emails from Sennheiser/ AKG/ Audeze/ AT etc. go to spam straightaway)
Personally I don't like wireless audio but fully aware of the fact it's the future. Some grumpy old people like me can only whine about it (same thing happened to camera, from DSLR to mirrorless) I'm still holding onto my Canon 5D mk III, it is OLD, but indestructible, and will keep on using it with the awesome Prime lenses till I am able to walk. If forced to upgrade, will buy mk IV. It feels like a part of my body.
Yes, tried TOTL Sony and Canon mirrorless cameras, they are great with spectacular results, but something was missing ( the bulk, the heft, the old viewfinder...)
Same with wireless headphones, I use one for everyday commute, love the ease of use, freedom from wire, awesome ANC, pretty decent SQ. But when at home, I won't touch it.
This is possibly my most inexpensive purchase for audio...and this is what possibly I use most outside home...Oppo something, basically their cheapest TWS. Working fine for 3/4 months, accidentally went into washing machine couple of times and survived!!
Price: don't remember, less than 20EUR.
If your laptop's built-in DAC and Amp sounds clean enough ( most new laptops do) but can't power some headphones you have, just buy a solid state / hybrid amp. Please don't buy a tube amp ( even if all of your headphones have dynamic drivers) if you have the budget to buy only one amp.
Once you have a basic set up and upgraditis hits, try to buy another headphone first. DAC is the last thing you need to upgrade.
Coming from an idiot who bought both Drop THX789 and A90 within a single month (and still don't have any portable amp or any decent DAP)
Thank God for the WA7, it's such a nice sounding thing that never felt an urge to upgrade.
Don't be a fool like me who just collected audio gears for decades ( still don't know how many IEMs are there in the basement...some are sitting in sealed boxes..) after 2 rounds of house cleanings still have 3 pairs of same headphones..it's madness. Please be careful with your audio purchases ( now all emails from Sennheiser/ AKG/ Audeze/ AT etc. go to spam straightaway)
Personally I don't like wireless audio but fully aware of the fact it's the future. Some grumpy old people like me can only whine about it (same thing happened to camera, from DSLR to mirrorless) I'm still holding onto my Canon 5D mk III, it is OLD, but indestructible, and will keep on using it with the awesome Prime lenses till I am able to walk. If forced to upgrade, will buy mk IV. It feels like a part of my body.
Yes, tried TOTL Sony and Canon mirrorless cameras, they are great with spectacular results, but something was missing ( the bulk, the heft, the old viewfinder...)
Same with wireless headphones, I use one for everyday commute, love the ease of use, freedom from wire, awesome ANC, pretty decent SQ. But when at home, I won't touch it.
This is possibly my most inexpensive purchase for audio...and this is what possibly I use most outside home...Oppo something, basically their cheapest TWS. Working fine for 3/4 months, accidentally went into washing machine couple of times and survived!!
Price: don't remember, less than 20EUR.
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I tried giving TWS a chance but after enjoying many high end IEMs for a long time, just can't listen to those average sounding buds anymore. I think I am sorted when it comes to gear, IEMs + DAP for portable use and Passive Speakers + Class A Amp for home listening. I might receive QP2R from @Mainak777 today, really excited for it.
Buy an old vintage amp (at least 10 years old) that is free from all the digital stuff and processing. Most of these features introduce noise and the price will be in your budget.
But as many guys mentioned here, the convenience is unmatched.
I ended up using the cheapest one simply because Airpod Pro, Momentum 2 TWS etc.dont exactly sound all that great compared to the cheap ones, and for audiobooks, podcasts these are more than adequate.
Moreover can't use IEMs anymore due to a weird itching issue.
I've never sold any audio products ( though bought a lot of used gears) but may sell all the IEMs (except the custom ones)...it's difficult to give away 1500 USD IEMs for free and some are really expensive.
No doubt in that, I consider myself a connivence guy too and will probably use AirPods in future but strictly for calls and not for music.
Never be an AudioFool, be smart and read a lot and only then buy gear. I follow research, buy and sell model and advice everyone the same. People buy customs without even knowing what it will sound like, customs of same model sounds different from each other because size and fit vary for each person. Whole Head-Fi is against customs these days because those things are very difficult to re-sell as well.
You probably got me wrong regarding the custom IEM.
I was fully aware of what I was getting and it was for stage use only. Yes, for audiophiles only, custom IEMs don't make much sense. But for onstage use, nothing can beat a pair of customs and you can easily upgrade yours from certain custom manufacturers at a significantly lower cost ( compared to buying a new one)
I had mine ( from 64 Audio, it was possibly called A4 at that time...now it's called A4T) years ago, got it upgraded in 2019 basically into N8 for approx.300 EUR ( AFAIK I know N8's retail price is above 1600 EUR)
But I strongly feel even serious audiophiles also shouldn't get into custom IEM. For consumption, it's simply not worth it ( and most audiophiles don't know that these things are upgradable, specially when more than 2 units are bought together, JHA has many different upgradability options for musicians)
Sometimes I feel like a ****ing dinosaur!!
BTW do you guys know what kind of audio can you get from the mixing board to your bodypack receivers on stage, beside the usual stere mix nowadays?
Any semi-pro or professional musician here who plays live?
I was fortunate enough to attend a few Rammstein concerts in seats just beside their huge monitoring and mixing crew.
The engineers are absolutely insane!! In one particular concert, the head guy thought that the snare isn't sounding right ( they use a hybrid system of acoustic and electronic kit pieces live, and at least one digital & one analog live mixer...the main digital one runs Sequoia!!)
The guy did an impossible thing...replaced every snare hit ( obviously electronic snare) with samples live, right there, in front of thousands of screaming fans!!
My jaw literally dropped to the floor...the guy later told me it was no big deal & they have done crazier things.
During that particular song Schneider actually looked to his left with a glare, but he just ignored it.
Just imagine, replacing snare during a live show... technology has really progressed..I don't exactly remember which plugin he was using...possibly Slate's Trigger with a previous live recording of the same song as the click track and reference track at the same time ( I didn't not it was possibly at that time)
This is what Windows 10 can do with audio when it has proper hardware, optimised software ( Sequoia is possibly the most powerful DAW for audio manipulation and broadcasting) and intelligent user.
I can bet no DAW that runs on Mac can do this kind of crazy tricks.
Did I go completely off topic? Is an audio gear thread the right place to discuss audio software or technicalities of live shows?
I was fully aware of what I was getting and it was for stage use only. Yes, for audiophiles only, custom IEMs don't make much sense. But for onstage use, nothing can beat a pair of customs and you can easily upgrade yours from certain custom manufacturers at a significantly lower cost ( compared to buying a new one)
I had mine ( from 64 Audio, it was possibly called A4 at that time...now it's called A4T) years ago, got it upgraded in 2019 basically into N8 for approx.300 EUR ( AFAIK I know N8's retail price is above 1600 EUR)
But I strongly feel even serious audiophiles also shouldn't get into custom IEM. For consumption, it's simply not worth it ( and most audiophiles don't know that these things are upgradable, specially when more than 2 units are bought together, JHA has many different upgradability options for musicians)
Very good question...must be the Creative EP something...in those days we used to play live with wedges or floor monitors. There was no concept of rack transmitters, bodypack receivers and IEMs for poor rock bands.
Sometimes I feel like a ****ing dinosaur!!
BTW do you guys know what kind of audio can you get from the mixing board to your bodypack receivers on stage, beside the usual stere mix nowadays?
Any semi-pro or professional musician here who plays live?
I was fortunate enough to attend a few Rammstein concerts in seats just beside their huge monitoring and mixing crew.
The engineers are absolutely insane!! In one particular concert, the head guy thought that the snare isn't sounding right ( they use a hybrid system of acoustic and electronic kit pieces live, and at least one digital & one analog live mixer...the main digital one runs Sequoia!!)
The guy did an impossible thing...replaced every snare hit ( obviously electronic snare) with samples live, right there, in front of thousands of screaming fans!!
My jaw literally dropped to the floor...the guy later told me it was no big deal & they have done crazier things.
During that particular song Schneider actually looked to his left with a glare, but he just ignored it.
Just imagine, replacing snare during a live show... technology has really progressed..I don't exactly remember which plugin he was using...possibly Slate's Trigger with a previous live recording of the same song as the click track and reference track at the same time ( I didn't not it was possibly at that time)
This is what Windows 10 can do with audio when it has proper hardware, optimised software ( Sequoia is possibly the most powerful DAW for audio manipulation and broadcasting) and intelligent user.
I can bet no DAW that runs on Mac can do this kind of crazy tricks.
Did I go completely off topic? Is an audio gear thread the right place to discuss audio software or technicalities of live shows?
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Black_Hawk
Skilled
This is what happens when you have too many speakers in a mancave...
You end up stacking them!
You end up stacking them!
At least they are in very nice shape. If I post a part of the basement, you guys will think I'm a complete nut case.
dissel
Skilled
At this point - Don't think anything remains anymore in this forum.
So Better post all the Audio Related stuff incl Headphones, Audio Interface/DAW Consoles/Mixer Board, Speakers, Amps, Music Instruments everything in and around your house snaped in similar categories and post under Spoiler Tab in One Post.....The picture must be in well-lit condition.
Synth-Pop
Adept
We all here are a bit crazy about audio but I am sure you're not Zeo's fan.
.eagerly waiting for a couple of pics as suggested by Dissel.