Will you give up on a childhood friend who literally stole your life's savings?

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red dragon

red dragon

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Obviously can't go into details, but a school friend of mine ( I was in a residential school from IVth to 12th standard and this guy was my room mate for more than 5 years..we basically grew up together) is simply refusing to pay up the loan he took in 2018.
After school he went to IIT Kanpur and I went to medical school, gradually lost touch except occassional hi / hello through FB or WhatsApp.
He is in Germany for more than 10 years now and in early 2018 got a call and he was in Bratislava and getting married soon!!
He came to our place and stayed overnight and we had a great time. Before leaving he very casually asked for a favor...if I could loan him some money ( possibly it was for some advance payment for the home he was buying plus some marriage expenses etc.)
Later we went to his marriage in Düsseldorf..had a great time there, met his in-laws yada yada...
After getting back from India couple of months back I was really cash strapped and called him ( it's not a lot of money, but for middle class people like me it is kind of significant, and I basically wrote him a cheque of about 80 percent of whatever I had in bank at that time) and he started ghosting me.
I got back from Düsseldorf yesterday in a completely ****ed up state of mind.
The guy lives in a huge house, has 3/4 uber expensive cars, left his IT job and doing some kind of business ( something to do with iOS app development...I'm not sure) He simply refused everything... ofcourse I do have bank statements and everything, but was completely dumbfounded and didn't talk about money anymore.
On the way to airport, his wife called up but she doesn't speak much English and I don't understand German very well and can barely speak. Basically her husband was doing pretty good with his new business initially, sold it to some big company for a huge amount. Spend well over 3 million on that huge house, cars etc. and developed a nasty habit of gambling and lost everything.
He could go back to Siemens, but didn't. Instead took large loans from very sketchy people and they are getting all sorts of weird and threatening phone calls/ visits almost on a daily basis.
She was planning to leave him,but decided to give one last shot to save their marriage and his life.
I thought I knew this man...he could have told me the truth as he knows very well what I've been through in my life, all the mistakes and wrong choices I've made in past.
And I am not really worried about the financial loss ( if I work hard for 6 month, will recover it possibly)
But shall I try to speak to him again...at least try to help?
I understand this is a very personal thing, but any of you here gone through something similar? What did you do?
 
With loans, only give the money you are comfortable losing. Because in family and friends, we don't give loans with any collateral so there is nothing to hold on to if the money is not paid back.
If I were in your shoes, I would never ever talk to that person especially now that all hopes of recovering money is lost. They are not really your "friends" but only wanted to take advantage of you.
 
Yes, both of you are right. But I am no saint...have done many sins, only alive and doing well just because few people in my life gave me a second chance.
This is what bothering me...may be I should just concentrate on my own life and work.
 
Very much....looong story long.
During my late schooling and early college days I had group of friends in my locality and one of them was my so called best buddies where people around used to exemplify about our friendship.

That guy only went to boys school..typical convent thing and once he was out of his underwear aka schooling, he was dying to talk to girls and all..fetish!
He took admission in one of the topmost college in Mumbai using his fathers influences/jacks/contacts etc. But as they say, its easy to pet an elephant but only selected can bear its expenses..
So, during first 3 yrs itself he changed 3 cellphones (yr 2k-2k3) while we were just enjoying 64kbps telephony internet.
It was all showoff for him...being his best buddy he used to take to 95% of his friends parties etc. and most of the times I was always his rescuer...contribute large sums to the bills etc.
He just kept saying will pay you later etc. but that later period never came.
This went on for years when one fine day I was posted a pic with our family car (my dads) and he sort of got jealous as he already changed 4 cars in 5 yrs (his dads of course) and he couldn't digest it and started poking me initially jokingly and then it was his usual habit.
Same went with pc. I was the last person to buy a pc but in no time I began modding and all..changed 4 pcs in 5 yrs.. another jealousy factor for him.
I helped him a lot as in lot wrt consulting, money, advises and what not but his nature was like just take it and seldom give back!
Soon he left our premises and when I asked him for the contributions till date and the money he owes me he hardly replied...
All these things became bitter and fship went for a toss esp. when in our boys gang a witch gal entered and obviously he always had girls fetish and rest is history.. wrongly b**ching about me to her and all...

Jealousy sparked, back stabbing, b**ching etc. it was only I realized it a bit late he was lying etc. splurging on that girl and all...his usual habit!

Hell with such people! Glad that era passed. I broke it all silently with zero regrets.

Years later he kept contacting me, adding me to old groups etc. but I never responded nor do such idiots deserve me.

I was hurt...innocently went helping people and this is what you get in return...no compensation in any way!

Even years later some people became good friends and it all ended in money... they never returned to what was termed as help!

Now, I only have people around but no friends...they are just someone from my society, office colleagues, acquaintances etc. but no friends tag...its all over for me since 2 decades..
I wish to have friends in my life as its a wonderful thing to happen but given the experiences, introvert is the way!

I will help anyone with anything but money...my mantra in life.. if he she wishes to judge me on that part, its middle finger emoji to them. They can F off and do not deserve it!

My lost money behind such undeserving idiots surely doesnt run in lacs or so but eod its someones savings and hard earned money and trusted that person that fships integrity and ginity! Curses wont spare them and then there's karma and destiny...

Forum people are cool, no friends yet no acquaintance, just members of a single family..
 
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Don't give second chance, End of discussion because if he can do it this now then most probably he will do again.
You are dong yourself a favor by not letting such selfish people in your life. I too had such experience but was lucky to get dumped for a small amount only so I just stopped communicating with the guy, he tried to contact me few times but hell NO.
 
I probably painted the guy in a wrong way. We didn't go to any hi-fi school. We went to a school run by hindu monks, it was extremely strict ( we didn't even have ceiling fans in our rooms back in those days)
And this guy was a brilliant student and came from a small village of South 24 Parganas of West Bengal and was never really the parasite type.
Was going through his LinkedIn profile and he was indeed placed in a very high position at Siemens ( not the typical MBA administrator/ manager type) after working in one of the largest tech company.
My wife has come up with an idea...our school has a very strong alumni worldwide, specially in UK and Germany. Will contact some of them if his wife gives consent.
This guy possibly deserves a second chance. But I am not going to do anything directly.
Over the years, noticed one thing.... lot of my school friends ( non medical people) are settled in US / EU/ UK, they still have pretty strong connections, but very few of us are married to/ living in with locals. And we are kind of treated differently...it's subtle but it's there.
We are invited in major events like weddings etc. but not into annual meet ups/ smaller gatherings, specially non formal meet ups
 
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red dragon said:
Obviously can't go into details, but a school friend of mine ( I was in a residential school from IVth to 12th standard and this guy was my room mate for more than 5 years..we basically grew up together) is simply refusing to pay up the loan he took in 2018.
After school he went to IIT Kanpur and I went to medical school, gradually lost touch except occassional hi / hello through FB or WhatsApp.
He is in Germany for more than 10 years now and in early 2018 got a call and he was in Bratislava and getting married soon!!
He came to our place and stayed overnight and we had a great time. Before leaving he very casually asked for a favor...if I could loan him some money ( possibly it was for some advance payment for the home he was buying plus some marriage expenses etc.)
Later we went to his marriage in Düsseldorf..had a great time there, met his in-laws yada yada...
After getting back from India couple of months back I was really cash strapped and called him ( it's not a lot of money, but for middle class people like me it is kind of significant, and I basically wrote him a cheque of about 80 percent of whatever I had in bank at that time) and he started ghosting me.
I got back from Düsseldorf yesterday in a completely ****ed up state of mind.
The guy lives in a huge house, has 3/4 uber expensive cars, left his IT job and doing some kind of business ( something to do with iOS app development...I'm not sure) He simply refused everything... ofcourse I do have bank statements and everything, but was completely dumbfounded and didn't talk about money anymore.
On the way to airport, his wife called up but she doesn't speak much English and I don't understand German very well and can barely speak. Basically her husband was doing pretty good with his new business initially, sold it to some big company for a huge amount. Spend well over 3 million on that huge house, cars etc. and developed a nasty habit of gambling and lost everything.
He could go back to Siemens, but didn't. Instead took large loans from very sketchy people and they are getting all sorts of weird and threatening phone calls/ visits almost on a daily basis.
She was planning to leave him,but decided to give one last shot to save their marriage and his life.
I thought I knew this man...he could have told me the truth as he knows very well what I've been through in my life, all the mistakes and wrong choices I've made in past.
And I am not really worried about the financial loss ( if I work hard for 6 month, will recover it possibly)
But shall I try to speak to him again...at least try to help?
I understand this is a very personal thing, but any of you here gone through something similar? What did you do?
Click to expand...
Forget the money, consider it a donation that you made for old times sake and move on please...

The real crux of your question was if you should talk to him again and help him again..
NO,,,
everyone is responsible for their actions, you did good and helped but the guy didn't acknowledge that, he should suffer the consequences for the choices he has made,

Why i am being blunt is, such kind will stab you again, in some other way, you did your part once that too in a big way, no more now...

Don't put yourself in the same situation again to get hurt, Wasn't he so docile and all when he needed help and now when you were in a tight spot what did he do.... Dont forget.

Move on, you can pray for his well being, that's all I ll suggest. Its upto you though if you wish to get yourself involved again..

All the best
 
frozenscotch said:
don't lend your money to your friend and you will loose him
lend your money to your friend and you will loose him and the money
Click to expand...
I would also like to add, relatives too...
Immediate family, blood relations are diff( brother, sister, mum, dad, son daughter) , you have to help your blood no matter what but with some sanity so that not to spoil them...

But doing partnership, lending money to friends and relatives is a outright recipe for money and relation gone...
 
I am with others on this. Forgive but never forget. Forgive because at one point you shared something important with this person and you cherish those memories. Forgive them for yourself, for your mental health. There is no good in holding grudges anyway. From the rest of your msgs, it seems you are already the bigger person and trying to convince yourself if you need to help him further. Yes, some people deserve second chances, but I am of the opinion that anyone deserves second chance only if they are in their current predicament because of factors outside of their power. Like a friend who lost something in an accident and needs your help to get back up on their feet, someone who got duped/manipulated by others and needs your help to get out of it, someone who was just at the wrong time and place and got sucked into it, etc. In short, the kind of person who is not responsible directly for their situation. People who break trust of their own volition don't deserve second chances.

People who act in bad faith to their closest family or friends are some of the most irredeemable people. Like you realised now, "Did I even know him at all?", do you think your help will change his mindset at this stage? If he isn't grateful for the help you gave in the past, what are the chances that he'll become a better person and be grateful for the help you intend to give now?
 
The way that I see it, he would have returned your money if he had right now. At least that's what I get from his wife's story. The thing that disturbs me a little is that he didn't return your money by himself when he had the chance. I have borrowed from family in time of need but I make sure that I return the money promptly. So going forward, I would say, just help in 'kind', not 'cash'. Sometimes, it is not easy to share one's failures with others. Perhaps that's why he didn't come clean to you about his losses and gambling himself. If you believe that the wife's story is true, then I don't think you should lose him now. But, just don't let him borrow money from you again. He could very well sell off his current belongings and move into something modest, but a lot of people are afraid of taking such decisions.
 
^^ You've got it right. His ego was preventing him to tell me the truth.
Yes, I'm somewhat cash strapped for now but it's not a very serious situation ( and both of us know it) What hurt me most that he made me look like a liar in front of his wife.
Can't really remember when I felt this humiliated.
And now my concern for a friend is turning to pure anger and rage. In fact his wife called again to assure that she will return whatever money he owes at the earliest. I told her not to worry about it and pay up those criminals and crooks...damn!! They have a two year old daughter for Christ's sake!!
This toxic show off culture can really swallow once normal and humble people so quickly.
I didn't doubt his wife at all...they are under so much debt it's highly possible that he truly forgot about few hundred thousands borrowed from a friend but remembered after our first conversation this September ( and the ghosting started)
And I only need some cash as the HVAC in our home is not working ( and needs some major repairs or complete replacement) and winter is about to come ( it gets really cold where we live) Plus my old beat up car can't keep up any more. And we are having our second kid in a few months time.
I can always ask my wife to chip in when needed ( and she helps everytime) but these are basic responsibilities for a man with family.
Truly didn't want to arm twist a friend who is going through a bad crisis. Sorry for all the whining and ranting...will manage things in a month or two. Having too many problems at the same time ( the convoluted OCI thing, now this, God knows what's in line next....wasted almost 6 months in Vienna doing practically nothing and waiting for clearance from Africa, which never came, except for few productive weeks in Kolkata, practically didn't do anything of real value in 2021...wasted time that will never come back...)
 
Over the years, in this forum I've asked for suggestions before buying laptop/ phone/ headphones and various other gadgets and you people were instrumental in helping out to make a purchase decision ( and EVERYTHING worked)
But this is not which gadget to buy. Something more important.
Life is throwing me one curveball after another. Within a span of couple of weeks followings happened..
1. Came to know about OCI ( Overseas citizens of India) and the scene has got really complicated due to my ignorance.
It's always playing in back of my mind.
2. It's almost winter and the HVAC in our house is not working and needs expensive repairs or complete replacement ( a major job)
3. The car finally broke down, so we are left with only one working car and I'm completely dependent on Uber while my wife is at work.
4. Lost a significant amount of money ( long story)
5. Wife is in late 2nd trimester of pregnancy, can't put her under more stress by discussing these issues with her.
6. Daily responsibilities of the kid's breakfast, school etc. ( mom truly needs rest, so pops had to step up)
7. Juggling my regular job with daily online classes in 3 medical schools, and preparing for these classes...satistics I can manage without any preperation, but other classes like epidemiology etc. are different.
8. The daily routine:
3:30am- get up , go out with the dogs, come back after 45-60 minutes.
4:30am- distribute breakfast to the dogs (6 of them at present)
Till 6am- study and make necessary notes etc. for classes/ check the thesis papers' progress ( primary guide for 5 PhD students)
6-6:30: shower etc.
6:30-7:30: wake the kid up, prepare his breakfast, lunch box, drive him to school before 7:45 ( thankfully it's just 4 blocks away, but he's too small to go alone)
8-8:15am-fresh coffee, breakfast for Len, wake her up, have breakfast together ( best time of the day)
9am- 4:30pm- WHO field office ( here I can relax, listen to music or whatever, attend few meetings, sign a shit ton of papers etc. etc.)
5pm- back home, go out with the dogs for another hour long trip
6:30-7:30/8pm- family time ( after he finishes homework) movies on weekends.
Online classes start from 8:30- other than weekends, dinner mostly alone. Len tries her best to put the kid to sleep and sit with me for dinner between classes. Sometimes these classes drag till 2 in the morning ( but I try to wrap up by 12:30)
1am- feel like a zombie and crash in bed only to wake up after 2-3 hours.
Yes, it's a brutal routine, but I love to work like a maniac. It doesn't affect me physically at all. But this routine becomes very tough when I'm not at peace.
What changes do I need to make? Can't stop taking classes, they are paying really well and I do need the money.
But at times I don't feel like myself...it feels like I'm watching myself doing something...it's a very strange experience.
 
This are actually not problems! You seem to be well off financially and family wise. It's Just a little difficult time, which could be sorted out with hiring one or two help and spending a bit of money (Which doesn't look like a problem for you).

It's not bad at all, Just Look at the positives! :cool:
 
Take a few deep breaths, create a priority list, then prioritize your stuff. Get rid of some of the low priority stuff immediately or get someone else to do it.
6 dogs .. and 2 hours of sleep .. come on !
 
I know...all the Rottweilers were saved from shelters. They are our children mate.
I rarely sleep for more than 4/5 hours even on vacations ( and almost every afternoon for 45-60 minutes in the office)
My body is fine, it's the mind...too many things to do, too little time. We always wanted to have a big family, with 2 kids and all the dogs it will be pretty big.
I know I will be fine after the baby is born. Have this very irrational fear of loosing Len during childbirth. It happened before too. Unlike India, where almost every woman opts for c-section, here it's just opposite, epidural and normal delivery. Being a doctor it makes me ashamed to admit, that I almost fainted last time. I'm not the easily get scared type person, but when it comes to Len, things change, she's my rock.
Will try to convince her for C section, but it won't work. The 2 inch scar is far more painful for her. How many days does she get to go to beaches in Croatia or Spain? And who the hell cares about a small incision mark!!
 
1. This is a Govt related issue, so, dont treat it like an issue at all. It takes its own time to sort out. See if you can close this using some money/middlemen etc etc. Do the followups patiently, check with embassy guys, check with your people in India if anything can happen from India itself. Try all sorts of tricks , but you know these things moves at its own pace. So, you dont think this as an issue.
2. Spend money and get it done ASAP, afterall you need peace of mind
3. compare costs of uber and getting a used car/repairing your car. Get it done whichever costing you less. Main idea is to keep the costs less. And, Spend money and get it done ASAP, afterall you need peace of mind
4. Thats in another thread, right. You need to bury some things for good
5. sharing these things with missus doesnt reduce your stress/anxiety. So,not needed.
6. You are an Indian right ??? How did you not think about this --> Is it possible to get her parents or your parents till delivery to your place ? Else, you have to take this responsibility
7. So, you are a doctor , in hospital or doctor+teacher in med school ? I see you are mentoring PhD guys, and giving tutions in med school. That takes a toll on your mind, but as you say its necessary from money point of view. 9-4.30 (7 1/2 hrs) and 8.30 to 2 (5 1/2 hrs) = 13 hrs of work. If money is good, you have to deal with it, and plan to reduce the time gradually. Otherwise, you will see a burn out.
8. You are a doctor, so, you have to know these rules -->
a. we need a good night sleep of atleast 6-8 hours, afternoon naps or power naps doesnt cut it.
b. minimal physical routine between each hour. In your 13hrs of work time, hope you are including such things as they keep body and mind fresh

Put hard stop at 1AM for your tuitions
And cut some time with dogs , I would say loose couple of them for couple of years, but seems like you have emotional connect with them. Add this time to your sleep
PhD guide for 5 ? Can you make it to 3 for 2 years ? (delivery and 1st year baby memories , so 2 years)

All in all, I see that you are trading your time for money. You can only decide on your priorities, until health is on your side. Else, life decides for you.

Take it easy , have fun, cheers :cool:
 
red dragon said:
I know...all the Rottweilers were saved from shelters. They are our children mate.
I rarely sleep for more than 4/5 hours even on vacations ( and almost every afternoon for 45-60 minutes in the office)
My body is fine, it's the mind...too many things to do, too little time. We always wanted to have a big family, with 2 kids and all the dogs it will be pretty big.
I know I will be fine after the baby is born. Have this very irrational fear of loosing Len during childbirth. It happened before too. Unlike India, where almost every woman opts for c-section, here it's just opposite, epidural and normal delivery. Being a doctor it makes me ashamed to admit, that I almost fainted last time. I'm not the easily get scared type person, but when it comes to Len, things change, she's my rock.
Will try to convince her for C section, but it won't work. The 2 inch scar is far more painful for her. How many days does she get to go to beaches in Croatia or Spain? And who the hell cares about a small incision mark!!
Click to expand...
Things are changing here as well mate. These days, girls don't opt for C-section unless very necessary. My sister has had 2 normal deliveries now. And it was much easier the second time around. You just need to find some time to sleep a little more. See if you can reduce the dog walks to half-an-hour each instead. Also, IIRC, your in-laws were there to help with the kid last time. See if one of them could come over for a few months to ease the load on you. You know how much grandparents help in raising a kid in India, especially during the first few years when the workload is higher. So don't feel ashamed in asking for their help.
 
Yes!! My inlaws are just a phone call away. If at least mom can come for a few weeks...many things will change. I was having almost panic attacks while I made this thread. It's almost 4 now here, and today things are not looking so bleak.
Please don't suggest to spend lesser time with my 4 legged kids...when no one's around now, I speak my mind out to them...of course they don't understand anything but can very much understand my state of mind ( much better than human) and I at least get 20 hugs and hundreds of very nice gestures of companionship from them...at least for few minutes I can forget all the worries and run around with them.
3 of the 5 PhD students will submit their final thesis before Christmas. So just 2 more months, and they have completed almost everything. So I will be left with only 2, and won't take any more this year. It's a very big responsibility.
Thanks for all the support and suggestions guys..you're just awesome.
 
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