A2 Ghee a scam?

I suppose you meant seed oil like sunflower, mustard, canola etc right? Because AFAIK 'vegetable oil' as used in ingredients is one of the worst things one can put in the human body. (This includes Soy and Palm oil)
In this context groundnuts, sunflower, mustard are all "vegetables". See definition 3 of vegetable at https://www.dictionary.com/browse/vegetable
In the case of soy, oil is taken out of its seed only, soy oil is also seed oil.
 
Very interesting so she recommends frying in saturated and avoiding polyunsaturated (what most people fry with) because polyunsaturated creates more oxidation products that are bad for health.

The exact opposite of what i've been hearing and even the USDA until 2015 was still advocating.

Vegans reject any animal based products so they will be sticking with vegetable oils.

Are there any plant based saturated fats ? i don't know any. Butter, ghee and lard are all animal derived.
Quite surprised to see that nothing has changed in 2015.

Around ~70s a lot of studies were conducted on large number of population for years to study effects on diet. This was done by various western countries. At that point it was theoretically known that animal fat is bad for health compared to vegetable oil (sat vs unsat to be more precise).

Conmen among academics rigged the test to match with common knowledge. Same thing what students do in lab. They got fame and citations across global news.

The guys who tried to do a fair job was surprised by their results. One of them (Harvard prof) did a near perfect test. He used people stuck in various mental hospitals as test subjects (to avoid people lying about their diet). He designed both sat and unsat meals which looked identical (blind test). The people who took veg based fats died faster. He couldn’t explain his results to himself as he too believed on the sat vs unsat theory.

What had happened was that science didn’t have the theory to explain what happened. In recent decades it was discovered that heat made vegetable oils far more toxic (not just unhealthy).

So there is no conspiracy theory behind what happened in 60s. Sponsorship did it believing that the results were in favour.
 
Coconut oil.
Ah yes what my grandparents used for cooking. But then they lived very physically active lives and used squat style toilets.
I wonder who came up with this term? AFAIK, there are no vegetables in vegetable oil. Sounds like deceptive marketing. One of the names of trans fats is 'Hydrogenated vegetable oil'. Talk about a mind f***.
Technically they are seed oils
Pasteurization is a good enough process as it has been for a long time. Here, in North India, we go even ahead, and, at least in my household, milk has always been boiled. This is what I've seen in most households.
That's been the norm in my house as well.

Milk used to curdle sometimes during this process and we'd fight with the milk booth that he was giving us old stock.

It's only when i got a fridge thermometer and read the label saying the milk needs to be stored at temperatures no higher than 4 degrees C that the problem stopped.

The old fridge averaged around 8 degrees but the new one keeps it below 4 and as a result i've never had milk curdle since.
All of this is complete BS and just marketing play, including all the rhetoric the current government spreads. How would I know? I have just started running a dairy farm and have been in the field for last 5 years.
It's not the breed of the cow, but it's diet that would give medicinal properties to milk and it's by-products.
Earlier, people used to leave their cows to graze, which would allow them to eat different kind of herbs. Now, no one does and there are very few grazing grounds where such herbs can be found. So it doesn't matter if it is a Gir/Sahiwal or a Jersey/HF. If you are going to feed them the same materials, their milk would be same apart from the differences due to genetic traits. That difference only manifests in terms of protein and fat percentages. On top of that, all cows in India, whether hybrid or desi, produce A2 milk. This has been proven in an NBAGR study, which says that even after crossing an A1 cow with A2, the hybrid which is known as A1A2 type, predominantly produces A2 protein. Also, due to all this hoopla, most of the foreign semen available these days is also of A2 type. Yes, contrary to popular belief, even foreign breeds are of A2 type. Also, all this A1 and A2 BS is propagated by a foreign organization, based out of New Zealand known as the A2 corporation so they promoted and sold A2 milk without owning any of our desi cows.
Above disclaimer should be read, re-read and again read before watching the below video because otherwise you will forget it.
But there is this famous guy in youtube who preaches on A2 milk and A2 ghee..He even quoted some vedic texts as source.
What had happened was that science didn’t have the theory to explain what happened. In recent decades it was discovered that heat made vegetable oils far more toxic (not just unhealthy).

So there is no conspiracy theory behind what happened in 60s. Sponsorship did it believing that the results were in favour.
In other words corruption. I'm just shocked this could happen with the American heart association :bored:
Ultimately it doesn’t matter.
The whole a1 a2 milk debate itself is just a fad with half baked results which was not scientifically continued to any conclusion. So it doesn’t matter what the ghee is.

Only make sure you pay more for the a2 one because of inefficiency in the breed themselves. otherwise it is not made from that milk
It does matter. because there is misinformation being peddled. You don't need to pay more for A2 milk when the regular milk we get already has it and more importantly there is nothing wrong with A1 milk. People confuse 'causal' causing with 'risk' meaning contributing but not enough to be the only reason.


Pretty much confirms what rdst_1 said

And it is dated 2015...old news debunked years ago

The question I have addressed in the review is if there is enough credible evidence to indict A1 milk. As I understand from the published literature the answer is ‘No’, we need to wait for further evidence to emerge

How to ascertain if the given milk is of A1 or A2 type?

(Dr. Santosh Singh Rathod)


There is no quick chemical test like fat or protein that can be done at the collection centre. The only method now available is PCR for which DNA from milk is extracted and A1 and A2 probe used to identify the genotype. This is in fact a big drawback because the trade otherwise will remain open to cheating common public as you would never be able to know unless an expensive test is ordered. How would the collection centre person identify if A2 milk has been adulterated with A1 ? In India therefore adapting this business model is not without major risk. Moreover there are no government agencies to certify A2 milk so you are solely dependent on honesty of the producers and marketers.

Kiwi controversy explained

 
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On a side note, can someone explain ghee made from cow milk vs buffalo milk? Are both equal nutrition wise and cooking wise?

@rdst_1 ?
 
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It Takes 1000 Litres Of Water To Produce Only 1 Litre Of Milk
It Takes 4750 Litres Of Water To Produce 1 Kg Of Milk Powder
It Takes 5060 Litres Of Water To Produce 1Kg Of Cheese

Dairy Is Not Beneficial To Human Health And Is Associated With Many Of Our Most Common Diseases
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine: Health Concerns About Dairy
Nutrition Facts.Org: Wary of Dairy
Nutrition Facts.Org: Topic: Dairy


Continued Consumption Of Any Kind Of Milk “May Have Long-Term Adverse Effects On Human Health.”
Diet in acne: further evidence for the role of nutrient signalling in acne pathogenesis

Dairy Products Has Been Linked To Higher Risk For Various Cancers, Especially To Hormone Sensitive Cancers Of The Reproductive System
Hormones in Dairy Foods and Their Impact on Public Health

Multiple Studies Have Shown That The Consumption Of Milk And Dairy Products Increases The Risk Of Prostate Cancer
Dairy Products, Calcium, and Prostate Cancer Risk: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis Of Cohort Studies
A Milk Protein, Casein, as a Proliferation Promoting Factor in Prostate Cancer Cells
Milk Consumption Is a Risk Factor for Prostate Cancer: Meta-Analysis of Case-Control Studies
Milk Consumption is a Risk Factor for Prostate Cancer in Western Countries: Evidence from Cohort Studies
PCRM: New Review Finds Dairy Products Linked to Prostate Cancer
PCRM: More Evidence That Milk Consumption Increases Risk for Prostate Cancer


Countries Which Consume The Highest Amounts Of Calcium From Dairy Actually Have The Highest Rates Of Hip Fractures And Osteoporosis
Milk Intake and Risk of Mortality and Fractures in Women and Men: Cohort Studies
Correlation Between Hip Fracture Rates per 100 000 and Dairy Consumption
Calcium intake and Risk of Fracture: Systematic Review
Milk Consumption During Teenage Years and Risk of Hip Fractures in Older Adults


Feeding Half The World’S Grain Crop To Animals Raised For Meat, Eggs, And Milk Instead Of Directly To Humans Is A Significant Waste Of Natural Resources, Including Fossil Fuels, Water, And Land
Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) of the United Nations
How Planting Crops Used to Feed Livestock is Contributing to Habitat Destruction


1 Acre Of Land Can Produce 15X More Protein From Plants, Than The Same Area Of Land Used For Farming Animals
2018 Report by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
Land, Irrigation Water, Greenhouse Gas, And Reactive Nitrogen Burdens of Meat, Eggs, And Dairy Production


Oat Milk Uses 13 X Less Water, 11 X Less Land, And Creates 3.5 X Less Carbon Emissions Than Cow’s Milk
Climate Change: Which Vegan Milk is Best?

Livestock Takes Up Most Of The World’S Agricultural Land But Only Produces 18% Of The World’S Calories And 37% Of Total Protein
Our World in Data: Global Land for Agriculture


If it applies to NZ it also applies here. So how many want to switch to plant based milks ?

Nobody ? ok :)


Maori Were Some Of The Tallest, Strongest, Fittest People On The Planet (Without Dairy)
Story: Te hauora Maori i mua – history of Maori health

Today, Maori Suffer From Disproportionately Higher Rates Of Diabetes, Heart Disease And Cancers
NZ Herald: Number of Kiwis with diabetes doubled in past 10 years
 
Maori Were Some Of The Tallest, Strongest, Fittest People On The Planet (Without Dairy)
Story: Te hauora Maori i mua – history of Maori health

Today, Maori Suffer From Disproportionately Higher Rates Of Diabetes, Heart Disease And Cancers
NZ Herald: Number of Kiwis with diabetes doubled in past 10 years
reminds me of something I came across this week

butter production in Bangladesh, U.S. cheese production, and sheep population in Bangladesh and the U.S. together “explained” (in a statistical sense) 99% of the annual movements of the S&P 500 between 1983 and 1993. (The paper in which he demonstrates this can be downloaded here.)
 
if you can afford ghee why not use pure cold pressed sunflower or olive oil or even peanut. By cold press i mean those done in a wooden vat or a wooden crushing pin in a steel vat. In india its called ghani ka tel. These are expensive but exteremly pure plus olive oil and sunflower oil is great for your health and skin.Ghee on the other hand is A fatty,B will definately cause a increase in acne and bad skin.
 
Maori Were Some Of The Tallest, Strongest, Fittest People On The Planet (Without Dairy)
Story: Te hauora Maori i mua – history of Maori health

Today, Maori Suffer From Disproportionately Higher Rates Of Diabetes, Heart Disease And Cancers
NZ Herald: Number of Kiwis with diabetes doubled in past 10 years
Not disputing with other points, but this one is far fetched.
There are SO many other factors (including so many changes in diet) also that have changed which can possibly lead to obesity and multiple disorders.
We cannot single it down to milk.
IF your/artcile's point was: can we do without milk and be strong & healthy - the answer is resounding YES. Milk is not necessary.
But then sugar is not necessary. In fact it is harmful in the long run and no one really cares about it. In fact what was a rare luxury in yesteryears has, in today's social lifestyle, become a basic requirement.

Tell me how many beverages you can locate at a local store which don't have sugar in it.


On a side note, can someone explain ghee made from cow milk vs buffalo milk? Are both equal nutrition wise and cooking wise?

@rdst_1 ?
I can tell you cooking wise.
Cow ghee is yellowish and buffalo is whitish. When you heat - both turn into kind of transparent color.
Cow ghee has a more aromatic flavor which I prefer, someone else may prefer mild smell of buffalo ghee.

Nutrition wise the differences will make jack-shit to you.
Ghee is mostly saturated fat. Any vitamins and minerals are traces, you would be better served worrying about eating veggies and fruits that are vitamin & mineral rich. Perhaps take pills having bioactive ingredients
 
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On a side note, can someone explain ghee made from cow milk vs buffalo milk? Are both equal nutrition wise and cooking wise?

@rdst_1 ?
Not much difference nutrition wise. I mean all cooking oils including Ghee are 99% fat. So I don't understand what people mean when they ask for nutritional value. For sources of vitamins, minerals, etc, you should look someplace else than the oil/ghee medium you are cooking with.
 
So I don't understand what people mean when they ask for nutritional value. For sources of vitamins, minerals, etc, you should look someplace else than the oil/ghee medium you are cooking with.

The amount of propoganda and so many mediums dictating and trying to make people believe everything they say by using these words like, nutrition, medicinal values, vedic medicine blah blah...Some of us have time and interest to research these things, but the majority believe these things happily without question.
 
It Takes 1000 Litres Of Water To Produce Only 1 Litre Of Milk
It Takes 4750 Litres Of Water To Produce 1 Kg Of Milk Powder
It Takes 5060 Litres Of Water To Produce 1Kg Of Cheese
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All these movie people go and quote carbon footprints for agriculture. Agriculture, whether it is animal agriculture or plant agriculture is most important because we won't be alive without it. If these guys are really so concerned about our planet, then they should first stop with the wasteful movie making.
Also, it's our huge human population and the way we consume food, especially the west, that's more responsible for the claims that they make. Even a non-vegetarian in India will consume less meat in a week that they do in a day. Another aspect that people forget, why animal agriculture is important, because many parts of the world can't grow crops many months of the year. And who do we fall back upon when crops fail. My mother's family has been farming since before independence and she recalls many years of her life, when they would survive seasons just on milk and milk products, because the crops would fail. And this was when her family owned 75 acres of land. Can you think what happens to a marginal farmer when his crops fail. As someone who has been farming for last couple of years, let me tell you, it is bloody hard to get a successful crop, and 10 times harder if you are trying to grow organically. Meanwhile there is this beautiful animal, that we have domesticated over millenia, who provides us with milk and meat (not in India) by eating what we can't and even eating our waste (cows are fed deoiled cakes, waste from breweries, waste from grain and pulse mills etc).

The point that many of these documentaries make is that we feed them food we can eat ourselves and that is a good point. But they fail to see that this is another western concept called feedlot or grain feeding. They used to have so much surplus grains that they used to feed it to their cattle. Over years, their population and demands increased and so it increased the demands on their grains. They didn't have to go that way. They could've followed what the rest of the world did and that was to let the animals eat pasture grass, which they naturally did and not convert that land into fields. Many US farms are returning to this pasture based feeding with very little supplement given to the cows for maintenance.
The West, especially the US, have always dealt in excess and now they are seeing the pitfalls of that. The US, despite having such low population compared to us SE-Asian countries consumes massive amounts of energy, even much more than India. And instead of limiting that wasteful excess, they went after the low hanging fruit and that's agriculture.
If human population and our lifestyles of excess aren't curtailed, then sooner or later, even plant based agriculture won't be productive enough or clean enough to stop our downfall. And that's why I'd prefer that we deal with the underlying reasons rather the outlier symptoms.
There are a lot more things I want to say, but this has been enough OT for the thread I believe. But if anyone believes that we can survive just on plant agriculture, I would just request you to try and eat only what you grow. Try that for just 1 year and your opinions will change. Most of us city-dwellers have lost that 'survival instinct' because for us getting food is not a big concern anymore. That instinct comes rushing back when you start farming, especially when it's your only source of income/nutrition.
 
IF your/artcile's point was: can we do without milk and be strong & healthy - the answer is resounding YES. Milk is not necessary.
There is no article. A trailer for an upcoming documentary was posted. I looked up the website for that documentary and found these quotes.

It gives you an idea what this documentary is about. It's preachy.
Can you think what happens to a marginal farmer when his crops fail. As someone who has been farming for last couple of years, let me tell you, it is bloody hard to get a successful crop, and 10 times harder if you are trying to grow organically. Meanwhile there is this beautiful animal, that we have domesticated over millenia, who provides us with milk and meat (not in India) by eating what we can't and even eating our waste (cows are fed deoiled cakes, waste from breweries, waste from grain and pulse mills etc).
Couple of points

It's true in the south. Cows can be slaughtered at 14 years in my state as I would imagine is the case in other neighbouring southern states. We don't have a beef industry here and so there is no cattle rustling and consequent lynching that occurs up north. Not only can a farmer depend on a cow for milk in case of crop failure he can also sell it to the abattoir when its productive life is over. We'd like to keep things that way and not have the north dictate how we live down south :)
But if anyone believes that we can survive just on plant agriculture, I would just request you to try and eat only what you grow. Try that for just 1 year and your opinions will change. Most of us city-dwellers have lost that 'survival instinct' because for us getting food is not a big concern anymore. That instinct comes rushing back when you start farming, especially when it's your only source of income/nutrition.
True for city dwellers but there are advocates/evangelists for this kind of lifestyle.


This guy is a big big believer in growing your own as well as going raw.
 
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As per this video in 1960s American heart association declared that butter/ghee saturated fats were bad for heart. It was funded by Procter and Gamble which invented vegetable oils which we use today. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...aced-animal-fats-in-the-american-diet/256155/
American companies have ****ed up the world, Coke, Mcdonalds, dominos, high yielding crops, GMO food, vegetable oil. We eat poison.
Since I posted this, here is a debunk of this video
 
I am sure of my BS mate, expected better language fron you.
I am in this field from more than 25 years not from 2014.

Its a basic thing that the milk would be as good as the feed and fodder buddy, but the breed plays the ultimate role in harvesting the good qualities.

Don't wish to debate in unnecessarily..
Imho this is a very apt and mature response. I believe proving everything according to science is a good idea but not always doable and if something is beneficial for decades then a person should stick to it regardless. I remember my father who was mocked in 90s for fasting regularly and was asked to eat every 3 hours by people of science and now the same lot goes on about how intermittent fasting is the best for him. So people should think twice before randomly scrapping off their family traditions and dadi ke nuskhe since they are essentially a form of clinical trials running across generations.
 
Imho this is a very apt and mature response. I believe proving everything according to science is a good idea but not always doable and if something is beneficial for decades then a person should stick to it regardless. I remember my father who was mocked in 90s for fasting regularly and was asked to eat every 3 hours by people of science and now the same lot goes on about how intermittent fasting is the best for him. So people should think twice before randomly scrapping off their family traditions and dadi ke nuskhe since they are essentially a form of clinical trials running across generations.
Never has any science told people to feed every 3 hours. The science of glucagon and insulin was known quite long time ago. What you could say is that scientific approach requires time to experiement and determine the cause-effect relationships AND these results have to overcome the extremely egoistical and political people at the helm of scientific organizations, committees, bodies etc.

A case in point: fasting as a "treatment" to alleviate diabetes is known for more than a decade. Heck, I have been on one meal a day since 2011-12 (when intermittent fasting was not known to practically anyone). Doctors also knew about it (mostly due to experimentation done on prisoners during wars - so we have a wealth of knowledge from WW1 days). Some doctors put their clients on it and got great results. But there was no official statement from the Doctor's associations due to several reasons (most important factor pharma lobbies) - due to which I guess even today fasting is NOT one of the official ways to control blood sugar.

The benefit of science is to weed out stupid traditions which have no cause-effect relationship and hence perhaps doesnt warrant sticking with.
It is the un-educated people who follow "science-backed" claims made by non-scientific people which causes issues like the one you mention.
 
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