UPI Merchant Transactions Over ₹2,000 To Carry Charge Of 1.1% From April 1, 2023

kiran6680 said:

"Cashless" was always a trap, anyway. Hope the country won't fall for it.

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Unlikely in India and cash is never going away here. What I find questionable is some vendors not accepting pay on delivery. Sometimes it's impossible to make digital payments as the payment gateways are just too busy and does not respond in time. I've blasted these people when I could for imposing payment methods that they have no right to do.

The reason UPI gets bigged up is the 18 countries that have Vostro accounts so the German foreign minister can buy something when she is here with her card issued in Germany. There is interest from 60 other countries to also adopt UPI. This then is touted as India playing a leading role in 'de-dollarisation'. That word does not exist as yet.

Digital is more needed in western economies or any economy that is in trouble or close. Where the compulsion of govt to do away with cash and impose negative interest rates is more. Trying to put payments above 1,000 Euro in some grey zone if it's done in cash and not digital. They talk more about central bank digital currency there. CBDC is a govt counter to bitcoin.

Digital with all its intrusive controls is a commie solution to a mess created by rampant capitalism or bad fiscal management.

Where do you see rampant capitalism or bad fiscal management bankrupting things in this country? Is our public debt to GDP at some unmanageable level or likely to get there soon? What is the possibility of zero interest or negative on your bank deposits anytime soon?

Take the case of bank failures. Discussed this with someone here back in 2015, can't find the discussion, don't remember who it was, but someone who'd been in the banking sector for eight years and what he said stuck. He was saying the odds of a cascading bank failure in India are minimal if you look back through history. Your money is safer in an Indian bank than an American one.

At least 75% of the economy is internally generated. Meaning it is isolated from external shocks. There was no contagion here after the 2008 financial crisis. The same is the case even today. Western economies are much more integrated with each other so dips in one spread to others.

Covid response fiscal stimulus. See below where India is compared to western countries. At the time the Economist was saying India is stringent but also stingy. Well, today after they printed like drunk sailors and are the ones facing inflation problems. Not us.

Nah, this place has always been highly regulated unlike abroad.

lockhrt999 said:

Yes, but how will a shop owner know that in real time? Somehow he must be told that some of the transitions are being charged fee so that he can pass it on the customer.

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I doubt shopkeeper will worry. He will get his full amount. The payment gateway will tack on the charges accordingly.

Mostly this is a first step before they levy charge on every UPI transaction. Another draconian move. How did they arrive at 1.1% from nothing? Isn't this very steep when imps is free, neft and rtgs cost a fraction, so why is this being taxed so high? The tech involved is fundamentally not very different. Are we realizing that 91 such transactions and we've payed 100 percent tax whereas govt didn't spend a dime. They are extracting tax like juice is extracted from sugarcane. Total losers .

6pack said:

The payment gateway will tack on the charges accordingly

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Yup, like when paying at petrol pumps with credit card, the actual bill amount would be entered, but in the statement it would show up with added charges.

mh09ad5578 said:

Mostly this is a first step before they levy charge on every UPI transaction...How did they arrive at 1.1% from nothing?

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Same way the banks decided they were working so hard that they deserved every other Saturday to be a holiday, while actual people are working 6 days a week. Funny how banks are supposed to help businesses, but now businesses are supposed to work around whatever banks fancy.

6pack said:

I doubt shopkeeper will worry. He will get his full amount.

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n1r0 said:

Yup, like when paying at petrol pumps with credit card, the actual bill amount would be entered, but in the statement it would show up with added charges.

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It I read it correctly, it's saying shopkeeper will only receive 98.9% of the amount. Nothing will be charged to customer directly.

I think there should be Fixed yearly charge or have slabs as per transactions performed and bill the person/organization accordingly instead

Upi form of payment is one of the best socio economic reform . It solves so much of issues the biggest is that even in a village there need not be a local bank for day to day cash needs .There used to be or at present as well there are no banks in the villages people still have to travel to get cash for running the day to life.

Small time shop owners/vendors had the liquidity problem that is by 12-1 pm they used to make daily hard cash deposits/withdrawals etc and someone had to visit the bank. At the night bring that cash home and again visit the bank and the deposit money and go to the shop. i remember my dad making delivery boy sign paid in full with date and signature and then again following up with banya that i have paid to your guy. UPI /Digital payments have solved such kind of issues. Less theft etc

Now government IT Dept is able to track the money and tax the individuals in a better way.

Regarding security of your online account . Please keep your main account locked no net banking etc . For upi have a separate account with limit of maybe 5 or 10 k or whatever your monthly expense is expected.

People cribbed about india not moving on to plastic notes which never added much value .UPi is one of the best service that government is able to provide to every individual without any form of inequality corruption involved .

burntwingzZz said:

UPi is one of the best service that government is able to provide to every individual without any form of inequality corruption involved .

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Yes, for me at least, this will remain to be the best thing this govt has done in its 10 year tenure. It nearly absolves them from the demonetisation.

lockhrt999 said:

It I read it correctly, it's saying shopkeeper will only receive 98.9% of the amount. Nothing will be charged to customer directly.

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What is written will never match 100% with reality. Visa T&C states credit card payments cannot be charged anything more than the actual bill amount. If bill amount is ₹100, statement should reflect ₹100 only. However, if someone chooses to pay by cash instead, Visa says they can be given a "cash discount" which clearly has to be stated on the bill as such.

If this were actually implemented, you would never have paid 2% extra "card charges" anywhere. If anything, more people would opt for the cash payment, but we know how this turned out.

burntwingzZz said:

Now government IT Dept is able to track the money and tax the individuals in a better way.

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And where exactly are we seeing benefits from better tax collection? All commodities prices are higher now than before. And let's not forget there was a time when YOU had to stand in line for an hour to access a part of YOUR hard earned money, all for...nothing. You proved you will do anything as long as you believe it's for the greater good without actually verifying how successful the technique was.

Petrol price is still soaring - what are you gonna do, not buy petrol? In the end we all shut up and pay the extra price. And so they keep adding new extra charges.

IMHO all digital payments should be totally free, transparent and inter-operable. The record keeping of legit transactions itself should outweigh any other platform charges. Charging a "convenience fee" here is just prolonging cash usage.

n1r0 said:

What is written will never match 100% with reality. Visa T&C states credit card payments cannot be charged anything more than the actual bill amount. If bill amount is ₹100, statement should reflect ₹100 only. However, if someone chooses to pay by cash instead, Visa says they can be given a "cash discount" which clearly has to be stated on the bill as such.

If this were actually implemented, you would never have paid 2% extra "card charges" anywhere. If anything, more people would opt for the cash payment, but we know how this turned out.

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You're right. But it only remains true for high margin business. Low margin business (like petrol pump) will continue to impose the Visa tax on the customers and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

n1r0 said:

And where exactly are we seeing benefits from better tax collection? All commodities prices are higher now than before. And let's not forget there was a time when YOU had to stand in line for an hour to access a part of YOUR hard earned money, all for...nothing. You proved you will do anything as long as you believe it's for the greater good without actually verifying how successful the technique was.

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Even though you are right @burntwingzZz meant something else. If I'm not wrong he was talking about how some businesses avoiding taxes and creating black money.

n1r0 said:

What is written will never match 100% with reality. Visa T&C states credit card payments cannot be charged anything more than the actual bill amount. If bill amount is ₹100, statement should reflect ₹100 only. However, if someone chooses to pay by cash instead, Visa says they can be given a "cash discount" which clearly has to be stated on the bill as such.

If this were actually implemented, you would never have paid 2% extra "card charges" anywhere. If anything, more people would opt for the cash payment, but we know how this turned out.


And where exactly are we seeing benefits from better tax collection? All commodities prices are higher now than before. And let's not forget there was a time when YOU had to stand in line for an hour to access a part of YOUR hard earned money, all for...nothing. You proved you will do anything as long as you believe it's for the greater good without actually verifying how successful the technique was.

Petrol price is still soaring - what are you gonna do, not buy petrol? In the end we all shut up and pay the extra price. And so they keep adding new extra charges.

IMHO all digital payments should be totally free, transparent and inter-operable. The record keeping of legit transactions itself should outweigh any other platform charges. Charging a "convenience fee" here is just prolonging cash usage.

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I can assure you that during demonetization many people had stupidly deposited lot of money in the banks and they did receive notice + there were many people who disclosed their money paid the tax came out of it.

People cribbing about petrol prices should understand that UPA`s Oil bonds , when people say that one of the government did a better job during global oil crises etc is a joke they increased the problem. Read this article.


Indian citizens have a liability on their heads. That is why i really appreciate Nitin Gadkari in BJP the most he is completely against subsidy. I remember one of the journalist enquiring whether certain sections of society (journalists/government officials etc) will get subsidized rates while travelling on expressway etc. and he point blank said no.

Your argument should have been why not improve public transport which would work on alternate fuels/energy and people from all walks of life take the benefit of it.

I truly support your notion of that UPI needs to be free but again understand it has to continuously scale be secure and evolve they have to pay salary and have some amount for difficult times like covid and further R&D. And if made free people wont value it and its a burden on government .One has to pay for the services.

lockhrt999 said:

Yes, for me at least, this will remain to be the best thing this govt has done in its 10 year tenure. It nearly absolves them from the demonetisation.

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Let's not move away further from the truth. UPI was Dr Raghuram Rajan's brainchild. And its governing body (NPCI) created UPI's vision during the UPA-II era (2012). Thus, the current government had nothing to do with UPI existence.

@lockhrt999 exactly .A simple example of buying lays at rs 10 you paid with cash .Do you know whether he will disclose it in his books or that whole amount becomes black money ,With UPI this amount is getting introduced into financial system which can be tracked by government. There are statements made on the floor of the houses that GST collection has been increased. Thats the proof

AINDRASIS_GUPTA said:

Let's not move away further from the truth. UPI was Dr Raghuram Rajan's brainchild. And its governing body (NPCI) created UPI's vision during the UPA-II era (2012). Thus, the current government had nothing to do with UPI existence.

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Completely agree with this .But every great product needs great marketing team and execution plan. this is what UPA`s ex finance minister said on floor.

@lockhrt999

i wanted to even highlight that Jandhan ,UPI promotion /marketing whatever you want to say. Covid vaccination (export of vaccination for free to other countries ) were great achievements.


And demonetization ( yes it was most painful very controversial ) but it had a different motto it was not all an attack on black money but also on fake currency. Imagine a person ending up with a fake 1000 rupee note.


Article 370 ,Ram mandir verdict .Were the judgements right/wrong i don't know but that has ended .It wont be a political mudda for any party which was being stretched from almost an eternity.

Sale of Air India good decisions

burntwingzZz said:

Read this article.

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Yes, read the article instead of misunderstanding it. I wouldn't reply otherwise but I see blatant fraud being defended here. Thrice the total amount of oil bonds had been the extra revenue of government in some years, and total in 8 years is orders of magnitude more than that. From the same article :

The government has to repay Rs 10,000 crore in the current fiscal year, another Rs 31,150 crore in 2023-24, Rs 52,860 crore in 2024-25, and Rs 36,913 crore in 2025-26. But this is less than a tenth of the excise duty on petroleum products at Rs 3.45 lakh crore, a majority of which accrues to the Centre.

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kiran6680 said:

Yes, read the article instead of misunderstanding it. I wouldn't reply otherwise but I see blatant fraud being defended here. Thrice the total amount of oil bonds had been the extra revenue of government in some years, and total in 8 years is orders of magnitude more than that. From the same article :

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i also have the same gripe with government .You will also have to understand that during those days and in recent past the hit was taken by oil Companies.


And the current government wont budge they will try to overcome this deficit and also build up a cache for oil/gas to tackle such global uncertainties/hostilities .This is the moment Oil/Gas companies are being allowed to recover their losses.

burntwingzZz said:

i also have the same gripe with government

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Ok, then what did this mean : "People cribbing about petrol prices should understand that UPA`s Oil bonds ..." ?

People cribbing about petrol prices need definitely not understand those oil bonds because they only justify 7% of the oil price increase, if that. 93% of the problem does not stem from those oil bonds, so why bring it up except to confuse illiterate people like madam FM did? That is a statement targeted at illiterate people, what business does that statement have in this forum?

@burntwingzZz the point I was trying to make was govt. agnostic, not blaming any of them in particular - it's always us vs them. Like how Nvidia & AMD were supplying primarily to miners and then realized people were ready to pay scalper prices, and are trying to normalize those higher prices now.

As long as WE are paying for something without throwing a fit, prices will keep going up. This is the SOP for pretty much any big business that has a saturated market share - keep jacking up prices to show greater yearly profits. Streaming services were invented to compete with sky high cable cost. Now they have reached the same level or even exceeded, coz profits.

Coming to petrol prices, it should follow global crude oil prices. If it rises when global price rises, but doesn't fall when global price falls, and we stay at 100+ constantly, something else is happening. Even a lay person can see this is not right. You can wrap it all up with fancy words like oil bonds and future security, but people will see through all the BS.

BUT what can they do? If the price is increased to 200, 300, 400...they will keep paying it, because their livelihood depends on it. It is essential now for everything. So they will pay. Same for UPI. If every single txn gets charged in the future, what will you do, stop using it? Nope, you will pay up without blinking.

Did you do anything when banks increased the Min. Monthly Balance?
Did you do anything when prepaid wallets were exempted from keeping your money but not paying you interest?
Did you do anything when FasTag became mandatory, where again, your money is stuck interest free?

Nope. You will bend over and pay up, while telling yourself this is all for the greater good.

n1r0 said:

@burntwingzZz the point I was trying to make was govt. agnostic, not blaming any of them in particular - it's always us vs them. Like how Nvidia & AMD were supplying primarily to miners and then realized people were ready to pay scalper prices, and are trying to normalize those higher prices now.

As long as WE are paying for something without throwing a fit, prices will keep going up. This is the SOP for pretty much any big business that has a saturated market share - keep jacking up prices to show greater yearly profits. Streaming services were invented to compete with sky high cable cost. Now they have reached the same level or even exceeded, coz profits.

Coming to petrol prices, it should follow global crude oil prices. If it rises when global price rises, but doesn't fall when global price falls, and we stay at 100+ constantly, something else is happening. Even a lay person can see this is not right. You can wrap it all up with fancy words like oil bonds and future security, but people will see through all the BS.

BUT what can they do? If the price is increased to 200, 300, 400...they will keep paying it, because their livelihood depends on it. It is essential now for everything. So they will pay. Same for UPI. If every single txn gets charged in the future, what will you do, stop using it? Nope, you will pay up without blinking.

Did you do anything when banks increased the Min. Monthly Balance?
Did you do anything when prepaid wallets were exempted from keeping your money but not paying you interest?
Did you do anything when FasTag became mandatory, where again, your money is stuck interest free?

Nope. You will bend over and pay up, while telling yourself this is all for the greater good.

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absolutely Correct

The farmers Did a protest .

we the people are also free to protest

France is doing it

Farmers were peacefully protesting here too and got beaten.

French are bringing their govt to their knees. "Eat the rich" is not new for them.

And one can't be expected to hold a protest against every little charge imposed. If the choice is between losing 1% on a txn, and few day's pay, the decision is entirely mathematical. The banks are well aware of this fact, and know can get away with it.

Also, if you care to dig up, there was a recent bump in retirement age here as well, but went mostly under the radar.

burntwingzZz said:

we the people are also free to protest

France is doing it

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This is because the retirement age was increased from 62 to 64. In which country do people set the country alight when they have been allowed to work for two more years?!?

They like their benefits in France, clearly, the state can't deliver those pensions which btw are close to 90% of their previous salary unless people work two more years. Simple. Deal with it and move on.

This is a toolkit operation at play to control Macron. Toolkit means some grievance gets blown up 1000x in social media by opposing parties. And we get this big media spectacle like the problem is oh so bad when it is not. Just over-exaggerated and prolonged with the internet tools available today.

The trial run was the George Floyd protests. Once the procedure was worked out they replicate it in other countries. Like happened in India with the so-called 'farmers' protest. There will be more to come. Just remember the word toolkit.

Basically, anyone with a grievance completely unrelated to the issue at hand can join in and trash the place. And the cops just have to put up with it as the orders are to stand down.

n1r0 said:

Farmers were peacefully protesting here too and got beaten.

French are bringing their govt to their knees. "Eat the rich" is not new for them.

And one can't be expected to hold a protest against every little charge imposed. If the choice is between losing 1% on a txn, and few day's pay, the decision is entirely mathematical. The banks are well aware of this fact, and know can get away with it.

Also, if you care to dig up, there was a recent bump in retirement age here as well, but went mostly under the radar.

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the last line says it all

the opposition is not strong enough not raising correct narrative

they should have put their hand up and say we did the bond thing and maybe a bad decision or we felt that at that time it was correct decision, but now looking at the figures why isnt the current government squaring off the same and passing on the benefit.

But i also think how is the Fame 2 subsidy being allocated for early ev adopters etc

blr_p said:

This is because the retirement age was increased from 62 to 64. In which country do people set the country alight when they have been allowed to work for two more years?!?

They like their benefits in France, clearly, the state can't deliver those pensions which btw are close to 90% of their previous salary unless people work two more years. Simple. Deal with it and move on.

This is a toolkit operation at play to control Macron. Toolkit means some grievance gets blown up 1000x in social media by interested parties. And we get this big media spectacle like the problem is oh so bad when it is not. Just over-exaggerated and prolonged with the internet tools available today.

The trial run was the George Floyd protests. Once the procedure was worked out they replicate it in other countries. Like happened in India with the so-called 'farmers' protest. There will be more to come. Just remember the word toolkit.

Basically, anyone with a grievance completely unrelated to the issue at hand can join in and trash the place. And the cops just have to put up with it as the orders are to stand down.

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i understand the toolkit

But you didnt get this protest .

People are protesting for working extra two years to get the pension .Not all have a desk job so imagine hard labor at 62 and to add two more years that's tough hence the protest .It also affects the young if the old people on don't retire than how will young get the the jobs.