Dismissing a plea to quash a criminal case, Allahabad High Court judge issues a series of directions to UP govt to ensure that ‘fraud on Constitution’ is not being carried out. What are your thoughts? Should a person other than hindu, buddhist or sikh religion be deemed as a member of sc/st community.
Can a converted Christian claim Scheduled Caste benefits? HC takes up question on religious identity
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I had a friend whose whole family converted to Christianity from SC Hindus. IIRC all the Christians that i came across who were native to my city were converted SC hindus, truth be told their living situations weren’t any better than SC’s and they faced the hardships faced by SCs.
I felt the reason most of them converted to get a sense of community without feeling ostracised from the mainstream. Mind you the segregation is still prevalent in small towns even now, though atleast they didn’t feel singled out in their churches and other community events, as much I know from what my friend told me.
They having the status of SC/ST isn’t linked with them being Hindus, you have be aware that caste is present is Sikhs and muslims too. There is a growing demand of certain communities in sikhs and muslims to be provided SC status.
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Kerala will have 164 forward caste communities, including 15 Christian communities, which are out of the ambit of any form of caste-based reservation.
is there a case to include ‘budhhist or sikhs’ but exclude ‘others’?
Justice Giri, in his order, quoted Paragraph 3 of the Constitution (Scheduled Caste) Order, 1950, which said: “No person who professes a religion different from the Hindu, the Sikh or the Buddhist religion shall be deemed to be a member of a Scheduled Caste.”
The High Court underscored this clause, also referring to Section 2 of the Hindu Succession Act, which includes within the term “Hindu” anyone who is not a Muslim, Christian, Parsi, or Jew, unless proved otherwise.
A person who has converted to Christianity, by this logic, clearly falls outside the definition of Scheduled Caste.
This stand has been repeatedly affirmed in court judgements.
In the Soosai vs Union of India (1986) case, the Supreme Court held that a person belonging to an SC community loses eligibility for SC schemes upon converting to Christianity.
The position was sharpened in the C. Selvarani vs Special Secretary (2024)case, where the Supreme Court held that claiming caste-based benefits after conversion amounts to “fraud on the Constitution”.
The Andhra Pradesh High Court (2025) also ruled that SC status “stands nullified upon conversion”, since caste discrimination is not recognised within Christianity; “irrespective of the existence of any previously issued caste certificate”.
“The court (Andhra Pradesh HC) further held that the SC/ST (Prevention of Atrocities) Act is intended to protect communities that historically face caste-based discrimination.
Consequently, its protective provisions cannot be extended to persons who have embraced another faith wherein the caste system is not recognised,” Justice Giri noted in his order.
Similarly, the Karnataka High Court held that extending SC/ST Act protections to Christians was impermissible because the Act exists to address caste-based discrimination—a practice that doesn’t exist within Christian theology.
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So, does Hindu legal system approve Hindu ‘theology’ allows caste discrimination. Is caste discrimination allowed so that SC/ST can be give reservation ?
Supreme Court Orders Kerala Government to Give ‘Reconverted’ Person His Job Back: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/on-reconversion-to-hinduism-scheduled-caste-person-entitled-to-benefits-supreme-court-742762
Courts these days.
Few interesting views from Kerala HC and SC:
Socio-economic deprivation essential in evaluating caste benefits: Kerala HC: Socio-economic deprivation essential in evaluating caste benefits: Kerala HC
‘Conversion to another religion does not change person’s caste’ says Kerala High Court: ‘Conversion to another religion does not change person’s caste’ says Kerala High Court
SC sets aside Kerala HC order, reinstates A Raja’s MLA status: https://www.onmanorama.com/news/kerala/2025/05/06/supreme-court-upholds-a-raja-mla-status.html
A Person Can Be Treated as Scheduled Caste Even After Re-Conversion: A Person Can Be Treated as Scheduled Caste Even After Re-Conversion
Kerala High Court Sets Aside Order Refusing Scheduled Tribe Status To A Christian: Kerala High Court Sets Aside Order Refusing Scheduled Tribe Status To A Christian
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Looks like i should have clarified what the word ‘ case’ meant in this context. Anyways since the argument is that hindu theology has discrimination and christian does not - Buddhist theology was anti caste. That’s why groups did threaten/ got converted to muslim, Christian or buddhist as an opposition to caste
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Simple if we end the discrimination then there won’t be any conversions and no need of these courts deciding on our rights right?
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I have always thought:
We should just have reservations based on income and net worth, not what caste your ancestors were given.
I had a classmate pay Engg Fees of INR 5K per year with both his parents working govt jobs, while I paid close to 1L.
He bought a Samsung S8+ that year (worth 60-70K) while my parents bought a Redmi Note 3 (11K) for me.
He travelled the 2kms from his rented flat (12K per month for a 1BHK all for himself) on his Royal Enfield every day for college, while I walked 1.5kms from my hostel room which I shared with 2 other people (4K per month rent).
All just because I was born in Open category and he was in some category which has reservation plus fees discounted.
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The question is why any ‘theology‘ by itself discriminate fellow humans, what is the point of that theology in modern age ? Are there remedies within that theological system ? For eg., triple talaq was remedied in Indian court.
Relevant because: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/on-reconversion-to-hinduism-scheduled-caste-person-entitled-to-benefits-supreme-court-742762
Wilfully converting to be self-discriminated to get a job ?
Your argument is very common whenever reservation is brought upon. We need to understand that reservation is not wealth based system, rather it is societal based. It was not meant to bring the person of lower caste at equal wealth that of a general guy but to bring them the same social standing. It is worth mentioning the patent effect is enrichment in wealth ofcourse but it is not the main reason why reservation was implemented.
You can be a high level officer but still face caste based discrimination, reservation wanted to tackle this very issue by bringing enough representation from lower castes in the upper echelons of the system where they have never been before.
But yes, there should definitely be scholarships for financially weaker students, irrespective of them being what category. This is atleast implemented in Uttar Pradesh where gov provides around 50-60k in scholarship each year to every student whose family income is under a said threashold.
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Very good policy.
Regarding the later part, I too believe after a certain limit, benefits should be capped from a particular family. I support the point that if you are gonna give the seat to a SC person atleast give to a person who will bring prosperity to their household rather than from an already prosperous family.
A personal anecdote, a batchmate of mine who belonged to SC category received full reservation and the scholarship etc., after his dad became MLA and a later a minister in the state gov recently.
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Like @afx mentioned caste issues are also in Muslim too.
beside in Muslims also sects create a huge inequality between each other
. In India also My Sunni Muslim friends had kind of strong opinion for Shia Muslim friends and vice-versa.
and so on.
No religion or a place is untouched by these inequality ideas . It is just in different forms .
Look at many different Muslim sects- Shia, Ahmadis etc in Pakistan. They are treated horribly there.
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How do we undo millennia of caste-based oppression? Being deprived of generational privilege and/or wealth is simply a thing that the privileged and/or wealthy can’t understand or relate to.
You take a bloodline, strip it of dignity, deprive it of opportunity — at what point are the descendants considered repaid or on par with the general population? When everyone’s a millionaire? Not sure if a son would accept a million dollars as compensation for what his mother suffered endured.
It’s a difficult question to answer. How do the westerners fix the damage caused by slavery?
Family history is lost after three generations, I have no information of my great-grandparents.
These are rhetorical questions, this is well above our paygrade.
edit: political correctness
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those time called for it bhai . Dividing society in caste based and keeping them bit separated from the each other was a clever move imho.
Those were the times when society needed to keep people working with animal leather and human /animal disposing and waste handling and other dirty jobs to be away to avoid spreading of diseases.
Many children and even adult would die coming in contact with children or people working in such dirty jobs .
Just like even today that Andaman Tribe Sentinelese cannot be allowed to come in touch with outside humans because their system is too weak to deal with the diseases we may be carrying but our body has become use to it…
The society had to draw a line and this has been seen even in west in those days of civilization.
They however saw two world wars , complete destruction and then full reset of the society.
It was necessary evil of those time to have this caste base separation.
Infact even today people working in cleaning of sewage and working in human post mortem are found not to live too long because of their body being exposed to so many virus etc.
There was this Nepali guy when I was a child who use to work in our area and he was damn fit use to do all sorts of dirty job for our entire building people . Like cleaning the sewage of the building and all sort of those work.
He didnt made it past 36 (if i remember)
I am trying to just say that civilization back then had fair reasons to divide society into such systems.
but it needs to change now for sure.
No Discrimination was never a need for the society as it was imposed by some groups while all others followed it blindly.
A 2016 study based on the DNA analysis of unrelated Indians determined that endogamous jatis originated during the Gupta Empire.[
Gupta Period means some 2000 years ago approximately.
Do you think oppression by upper castes for 2000 years is justice or not?
Discimination started during Gupta Period because people began to convert to Buddism in those days and to suppress it they invented this Jati or varna system and made the vulnerable a kind of prey because they could not defend themselves in those days.
But times have changed since Independence but more change needs to happen for this Jati or Varna System should be completely abolished since this kind of discrimination was not there during Ram or Krishnas rule.
Honestly, I think you’re romanticizing it — it wasn’t a division of society, it was rampant discrimination
I’m talking about things like
— hands chopped off so work cannot be replicated
— children sent into mines because they were smaller
— males castrated or forced into physical labour
— females violated and impregnated by the elite
The issues you mentioned, they were worldwide, but the rest of the world didn’t condemn entire bloodlines
That is not caste, but sectorial division. Not defined in their ‘theology‘.
There definitely is caste based division depending on social factors, work, etc. within their community, which is practiced even now.
I mentioned that difference keep finding in different forms.
beside even in Muslim there is caste based differences also.
There is Pasmanda Muslim ( the one who are seen as converts and lower caste )
and there is Ashraf Muslims ( the one who believe there are direct descendants of Arab Muslims )