A clock with 64 seconds per minute

[Pimpom]

I'm a bit of a clock nut. I have 10 wall clocks and assorted table clocks around the house. I even have a 20-inch clock on my verandah where several members of my family's colony lounged every day in pre-Covid times. I sync the clocks to an internet time standard from time to time.

For quite some time now, I've felt the need for a small table clock for timing purposes in my work and I have strict specifications for it:
1. It must be small. The design must be clean without protuberances. The average table clock is too big for my cluttered home office and work tables.
2. Analog. I have a stopwatch and a few digital table clocks but an analog clock is more suitable for the kind of timings I do.
3. The dial design must be round, clear and simple with numbers for each hour. No fancy font or decorations on the face.
4. The seconds hand must be long enough to reach or almost reach the divisions. A square face is out.
5. The second hand movement must be stepped, not the so-called "sweep" type.

Desirable but not essential: The second hand should be red and the hour and minute hands should be luminous.
There are other specs but these are the main ones.

After a long long search, I finally found the perfect clock at Amazon. It meets every single one of my specs. It was delivered two days ago and I eagerly tested it. Alas! It keeps losing seconds per minute without stopping at any time. That's minutes per hour and more than one hour per day!

Then I noticed something odd: The hands have almost no play (a very welcome property) BUT the second hand loses sync with the divisions as it moves around the dial. I counted the steps and found that it takes 64 steps to complete one round trip. That is, according to this clock, there are 64 seconds in a minute!!

It's a returnable item but it was the last piece and there's probably no replacement available. In any case, even if a replacement were available, I doubt that it would be any different. Now I'm debating with myself whether I should return it for a refund OR keep it and replace the mechanism myself.

I've encountered this kind of clock once before. It was 40 years ago (Yes, I'm an old guy) when the state power department called on me for help with their power generation. I instinctively sensed something odd with the wall clock in one power house. I observed the second hand movement and it moved 65 steps on each round trip. I don't remember if it kept good time. It pops up in my mind now and then and I sometimes wondered if I made a mistake. Now my new table clock has confirmed that such clocks do exist.

Has anyone else come across something like this?

 

[sanjeevram]

2 minutes of my life well spent.
No sir i have not observed such things.

 

[blr_p]

I'm a bit of a clock nut. I have 10 wall clocks and assorted table clocks around the house. I even have a 20-inch clock on my verandah where several members of my family's colony lounged every day in pre-Covid times. I sync the clocks to an internet time standard from time to time.

Some time ago I was looking for a wall clock that was legible and practical. I decided i would go with Seiko. I was amazed to find they had at least 600 choices. Not all available in India but what struck me as annoying was 95% of them were decorative leaving the rest as functional and what i woud say desirable.

The clock stopped working in less than two years because i made the mistake of using Duracells instead of plain dry cells. The coil got damaged i was told. I need to get it fixed one of these days. But the deal is they won't sell me the movement. I have to pay for service as well. So that is how it is with Seiko.

5. The second hand movement must be stepped, not the so-called "sweep" type.

Why ? sweep if done properly is silent. Something you expect with the better brands.

Stepped means that tick sound that is more noticeable and distracting.

Then I noticed something odd: The hands have almost no play (a very welcome property) BUT the second hand loses sync with the divisions as it moves around the dial. I counted the steps and found that it takes 64 steps to complete one round trip. That is, according to this clock, there are 64 seconds in a minute!!

Now, that is something i've not even thought of. Well done on spotting it.

 

[montsa007]

I'm a bit of a clock nut. I have 10 wall clocks and assorted table clocks around the house. I even have a 20-inch clock on my verandah where several members of my family's colony lounged every day in pre-Covid times. I sync the clocks to an internet time standard from time to time.

For quite some time now, I've felt the need for a small table clock for timing purposes in my work and I have strict specifications for it:
1. It must be small. The design must be clean without protuberances. The average table clock is too big for my cluttered home office and work tables.
2. Analog. I have a stopwatch and a few digital table clocks but an analog clock is more suitable for the kind of timings I do.
3. The dial design must be round, clear and simple with numbers for each hour. No fancy font or decorations on the face.
4. The seconds hand must be long enough to reach or almost reach the divisions. A square face is out.
5. The second hand movement must be stepped, not the so-called "sweep" type.

Desirable but not essential: The second hand should be red and the hour and minute hands should be luminous.
There are other specs but these are the main ones.

After a long long search, I finally found the perfect clock at Amazon. It meets every single one of my specs. It was delivered two days ago and I eagerly tested it. Alas! It keeps losing seconds per minute without stopping at any time. That's minutes per hour and more than one hour per day!

Then I noticed something odd: The hands have almost no play (a very welcome property) BUT the second hand loses sync with the divisions as it moves around the dial. I counted the steps and found that it takes 64 steps to complete one round trip. That is, according to this clock, there are 64 seconds in a minute!!

It's a returnable item but it was the last piece and there's probably no replacement available. In any case, even if a replacement were available, I doubt that it would be any different. Now I'm debating with myself whether I should return it for a refund OR keep it and replace the mechanism myself.

I've encountered this kind of clock once before. It was 40 years ago (Yes, I'm an old guy) when the state power department called on me for help with their power generation. I instinctively sensed something odd with the wall clock in one power house. I observed the second hand movement and it moved 65 steps on each round trip. I don't remember if it kept good time. It pops up in my mind now and then and I sometimes wondered if I made a mistake. Now my new table clock has confirmed that such clocks do exist.

Has anyone else come across something like this?

Since you mention that you like clocks, may I have the explicit permission to PM you so I can show something fancy

 

[Pimpom]

Sure, go ahead.

 

[sanjeevram]

Sure, go ahead.

On behalf of the people of forum i request you to treat us to the same. If possible...

 

[montsa007]

On behalf of the people of forum i request you to treat us to the same. If possible...

You asked for it

 

[nRiTeCh]

Just for fun..remove L from clocks and read the entire thread

 

[Pimpom]

Some time ago I was looking for a wall clock that was legible and practical. I decided i would go with Seiko. I was amazed to find they had at least 600 choices. Not all available in India but what struck me as annoying was 95% of them were decorative leaving the rest as functional and what i woud say desirable.

The clock stopped working in less than two years because i made the mistake of using Duracells instead of plain dry cells. The coil got damaged i was told. I need to get it fixed one of these days. But the deal is they won't sell me the movement. I have to pay for service as well. So that is how it is with Seiko.

[/QUOTE]
I don't have Seiko but I have two Casio clocks, a couple of unbranded ones and the rest are Ajanta and Oreva (same company). I always check my clocks for accuracy every hour or so at first, then every day and then at longer and longer intervals. I find that Ajanta clocks are more accurate than Casio and are also cheaper. My two Casios gain about 20 seconds per month whereas the Ajantas are accurate within 5 to 15 seconds a month. One 8-inch specimen is exceptionally accurate. In both short-term and long-term measurements, it gains half a second per month. Not bad for a clock that cost Rs.165/-

Why ? sweep if done properly is silent. Something you expect with the better brands.

Stepped means that tick sound that is more noticeable and distracting.

[/QUOTE]
Contrary to my earlier instincts, I find it easier to gauge time accurately with a stepped movement than with a continuous type. By following the rhythm in the mind, it's not difficult to gauge intervals down to a quarter of a second. In some circumstances, I can estimate differences down to one-tenth of a second.

On behalf of the people of forum i request you to treat us to the same. If possible...

Was that directed at me or at montsa007?

 

[t3chg33k]

I'm a bit of a clock nut. I have 10 wall clocks and assorted table clocks around the house. I even have a 20-inch clock on my verandah where several members of my family's colony lounged every day in pre-Covid times. I sync the clocks to an internet time standard from time to time.

For quite some time now, I've felt the need for a small table clock for timing purposes in my work and I have strict specifications for it:
1. It must be small. The design must be clean without protuberances. The average table clock is too big for my cluttered home office and work tables.
2. Analog. I have a stopwatch and a few digital table clocks but an analog clock is more suitable for the kind of timings I do.
3. The dial design must be round, clear and simple with numbers for each hour. No fancy font or decorations on the face.
4. The seconds hand must be long enough to reach or almost reach the divisions. A square face is out.
5. The second hand movement must be stepped, not the so-called "sweep" type.

Desirable but not essential: The second hand should be red and the hour and minute hands should be luminous.
There are other specs but these are the main ones.

After a long long search, I finally found the perfect clock at Amazon. It meets every single one of my specs. It was delivered two days ago and I eagerly tested it. Alas! It keeps losing seconds per minute without stopping at any time. That's minutes per hour and more than one hour per day!

Then I noticed something odd: The hands have almost no play (a very welcome property) BUT the second hand loses sync with the divisions as it moves around the dial. I counted the steps and found that it takes 64 steps to complete one round trip. That is, according to this clock, there are 64 seconds in a minute!!

It's a returnable item but it was the last piece and there's probably no replacement available. In any case, even if a replacement were available, I doubt that it would be any different. Now I'm debating with myself whether I should return it for a refund OR keep it and replace the mechanism myself.

I've encountered this kind of clock once before. It was 40 years ago (Yes, I'm an old guy) when the state power department called on me for help with their power generation. I instinctively sensed something odd with the wall clock in one power house. I observed the second hand movement and it moved 65 steps on each round trip. I don't remember if it kept good time. It pops up in my mind now and then and I sometimes wondered if I made a mistake. Now my new table clock has confirmed that such clocks do exist.

Has anyone else come across something like this?

I have silent sweep wall clocks from Casio and Titan at home which have an acceptable error margin. However, I installed a cheap, non-silent, non-sweep wall clock from Ajanta in my bathroom because that is where I lose track of time the most.

The situation with that watch is opposite of yours, it covers a minute in 59 seconds, so you can calculate how far ahead of it's time it is. A bit of a pain to have to readjust it every now and then, but on the positive side, it results in a bit of a hurry up in the bathroom, which is always great for leaving on time.

 

[montsa007]

I have silent sweep wall clocks from Casio and Titan at home which have an acceptable error margin. However, I installed a cheap, non-silent, non-sweep wall clock from Ajanta in my bathroom because that is where I lose track of time the most.

The situation with that watch is opposite of yours, it covers a minute in 59 seconds, so you can calculate how far ahead of it's time it is. A bit of a pain to have to readjust it every now and then, but on the positive side, it results in a bit of a hurry up in the bathroom, which is always great for leaving on time.

I happen to get irritated by the tick tock sound of clocks at night, have made sure all watches in home are sweep movement

 

[Pimpom]

I have silent sweep wall clocks from Casio and Titan at home which have an acceptable error margin. However, I installed a cheap, non-silent, non-sweep wall clock from Ajanta in my bathroom because that is where I lose track of time the most.

The situation with that watch is opposite of yours, it covers a minute in 59 seconds, so you can calculate how far ahead of it's time it is. A bit of a pain to have to readjust it every now and then, but on the positive side, it results in a bit of a hurry up in the bathroom, which is always great for leaving on time.

I'm all too familiar with how easy it is to lose track of time in the bathroom, especially when I have a good novel in my hands.

I happen to get irritated by the tick tock sound of clocks at night, have made sure all watches in home are sweep movement

To each his own. Neither my wife nor I am bothered by the tick-tock at all.

 

[skoka123]

@Pimpom Wouldn't something like replacing the clock mechanism with that of Ajanta solve the problem?

 

[letmein]

I have a setup of a Braun Travelling Alarm Clock + Muji Thermo-Hygrometer on my desk. I think the Braun will fill all your requirements, except for the 'desirable' one.

 

[Pimpom]

@Pimpom Wouldn't something like replacing the clock mechanism with that of Ajanta solve the problem?

I considered that and had almost decided to go that route. In fact, I had mentally chosen the Rs.165 wall clock mentioned above. Then it occurred to me that since one is an alarm clock and the other is a simple wall clock, there might be mechanical differences. Sure enough, the location of the controls at the back are different. The wall clock movement module will not fit in the table clock housing. All of the wall clocks I've seen have interchangeable movement modules but table clocks are different.

I'll see if there's an inexpensive table clock whose movement unit will fit this table clock. I don't want to pay for an expensive fancy model just to cannibalize it for the mechanism while also forfeiting the refund for this table clock.

 

[sauravghosh]

I do not clearly understand OP. Is it as simple as I think it is, that you bought a shite clock off Amazon, which doesn't have satisfactory accuracy? Well, in that case, please be informed that no clock has that level of accuracy you seek. It doesn't matter whether the clock runs 64 seconds for a minute, what matters is whether it's consistent. I mean if it keeps running at 64 secs for a month straight, then it could be more accurate compared to a clock which does run 60 secs for a min but is inconsistent. At the end of the day, you need to check how much it gains/loses per month compared to an atomic clock.

Yes, I am a accuracy nerd. I cannot stand fast or slow stuffs. So I sync even my bloody Ajanta wall clocks every other month or so. If you need a stable and reliable table clock, the only thing I can suggest you is a Casio. Yes, I don't believe Casio has the old image when they really were made in Japan, but still, whatever's available on market nowadays, they are still a better bet than most.

 

[blr_p]

Since you mention that you like clocks, may I have the explicit permission to PM you so I can show something fancy

I interpreted this in another way

 

[Pimpom]

I do not clearly understand OP.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. But most of the points you made are off the mark. Perhaps you didn't read my posts carefully.

Is it as simple as I think it is, that you bought a shite clock off Amazon, which doesn't have satisfactory accuracy?

Partly yes, but it's not just a matter of timekeeping accuracy. This clock is behaving in a way no conventional clock should behave.

Well, in that case, please be informed that no clock has that level of accuracy you seek.

What level of accuracy? I never specified a particular level or degree of accuracy required for this new clock, although I do want an accurate one.

It doesn't matter whether the clock runs 64 seconds for a minute,

Hold on. It does matter that this clock (and any other conventional clock) should tick 60 times a minute, not 64 times or any other number except 60, especially if it's to be used for precise measurement of time intervals. Otherwise how will you know when, say, 37.5 seconds have elapsed since you started something? You can't, unless your clock's minute is made up of 60 seconds.

what matters is whether it's consistent. I mean if it keeps running at 64 secs for a month straight, then it could be more accurate compared to a clock which does run 60 secs for a min but is inconsistent.

I won't attempt to explain this. Please pause and give it some thought.

At the end of the day, you need to check how much it gains/loses per month compared to an atomic clock.

That's essentially what I always do indirectly by comparing to dedicated time checking websites.

Yes, I am a accuracy nerd. I cannot stand fast or slow stuffs. So I sync even my bloody Ajanta wall clocks every other month or so. If you need a stable and reliable table clock, the only thing I can suggest you is a Casio. Yes, I don't believe Casio has the old image when they really were made in Japan, but still, whatever's available on market nowadays, they are still a better bet than most.

I can only ask you to read all my posts again carefully. I already said that I have two Casio clocks. Each one cost three times the price of the most expensive Ajanta clock I have, and more than ten times that of the cheapest one. Yet, among the 15 or so clocks that I have with me (not counting wristwatches), both Casios are the least accurate. I can't speak for other people's experiences but that's mine.

 

[blr_p]

both Casios are the least accurate. I can't speak for other people's experiences but that's mine.

The way this is solved is using radio waves to sync. These are govt run affairs and we don't have one (yet)

So clocks/watches with that feature won't work in India and are not usually sold here.

Want clocks to run on time in this country, that's all it takes.

 

[Pimpom]

That's true. Advanced countries have had such systems for a long time and I've often wished we had the same. But then the clocks would have to be compatible with the system. You can't use it with just any old clock. It would be like trying to use Facebook or WhatsApp from a Nokia 1100.