About smoking in public places

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Skilled
There was a smoking thread (where did it go?) some time back where this question was asked

From my lawyer who *also* smokes.

a public place is one that is just that, any place with public access, a road(!), a park, a beach etc, or any govt. property. A bar, hotel or restaurant do *NOT* contitute a public property since they have restricted access, and more importantly are usually privately owned. There is *NO* restriction on smoking there unless its specifically stated or the owner of said premises objects

So keep that in mind when some non-smokers bullies you into respecting their rights :)
 
The usual counter is:

Moron, you spit 10 times more crap in an hour frm ur bike than I can in a week with cigarettes...:argue: :bangin: :jason: :disguise: :gun2:
 
haha, yes... but thats not prohibited by law (yet), and the ppl have this tendency to use it as a stick when useful.
 
vij said:
The usual counter is:
Moron, you spit 10 times more crap in an hour frm ur bike than I can in a week with cigarettes...:argue: :bangin: :jason: :disguise: :gun2:
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The guy who says this is surely short of logic.
 
Here in CHD we are having rule that a person cannot drink :p in public places ... He/She will be fined for that aa hefty 500-1k Rs for a pity Cigarette :rofl: That's step recently launched to make City Beautiful Smoke Free :hap2: Nice 1 blr_p :hap2:
 
vij said:
Its not law point...Its a "fact" point :p
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yeah, but if you counter them with the existing law, the matter is closed then & there. Otherwise it becomes a heated debate.

Not exactly what you want when your're enjoying a smoke.
 
ok, that lawyer needs some updating :p
This is official Indian government statement taken from the press release from the TOI i saved a while ago.

Any area to which public has access, whether as a matter of
right or not, has been defined as a public place. All enclosed place
includes all workplaces, offices (including private workplaces),
educational institutes, hotels, restaurants, etc. are defined as public
place. Similarly, even open spaces visited by public, for example,
parks, stadiums, auditoriums, exhibition grounds, bus-stops, market-
plaza and all such places are also considered public places. No
smoking is allowed in any public conveyances, including auto
rickshaws and public taxis.
All public places, hotels, restaurants, bars, taverns, eateries, etc.
must affix a minimum of two prescribed warning boards reading “No
Smoking Area – Smoking Here is an Offence.†All hotels, restaurants,
bars, taverns, eateries, etc. must ensure that in case of any smoking
area in the premises, it is as per the guidelines issued by the
Directorate of Health.
All such areas must be air-insulated and physically segregated.
No tobacco shop should operate within 100 yards of the educational
institute and no person should sell any tobacco product to a person
below 18 years of age. The shopkeeper has a right to see any
verification document like motor vehicle license, identity card, election
I.D. proof, etc. to ascertain the age of the purchaser.
To clear any confusion, it is clarified that an open place not
visited by the general public, like lawn area outside homes, road kerbs
away from the market, etc. are considered as open spaces and a
person can smoke in such open areas
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No ofference to any smokers here on TE.

The point here doesnt matter with rights or not....it also matters about how comfortable another person might be.

If you are seated on a park bench and a smokers comes and sits next to u ...its the moral duty or should i say respect shown by the smoker to ask the person seated next if it would be fine for him/her to smoke seated there.

I myself am a bit allergic to cig. smoke . I start coufing my lungs out. On 'n' no. of occasions I have politely requested smokers to not smoke or to smoke at a distance and everyone readily accepts the point. However if the smoker is adamant the simple solution is to walk away from there.

The problem occurs when u start blabbering abt human rights and nag the person with that crap instead of coming to the point that its affecting ur health OR ur ill OR there is a baby with u OR watever it maybe.
 
hanzy said:
If you are seated on a park bench and a smokers comes and sits next to u ...its the moral duty or should i say respect shown by the smoker to ask the person seated next if it would be fine for him/her to smoke seated there.
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That is a public place as far as the definition is concerned.

Funky said:
ok, that lawyer needs some updating :p
This is official Indian government statement taken from the press release from the TOI i saved a while ago.
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Nah i doubt it, looks like they have muddled up the defnition there, this happens rather often with the TOI and is a bit irritating.

...calling a privately owned building a place public does not cut it for the reasons mentioned above. It has never been an offence to smoke there unless there were signs explicitly forbidding it. These would have been put in place with the owner's consent. Even then its not an offence (meaning breaking of law) but rather a stated condition to enjoy the building.

it all hinges on the definition of a public space as i suspected earlier
 
blr_p said:
That is a public place as far as the definition is concerned.

Nah i doubt it, looks like they have muddled up the defnition there, this happens rather often with the TOI and is a bit irritating.

...calling a privately owned building a place public does not cut it for the reasons mentioned above. It has never been an offence to smoke there unless there were signs explicitly forbidding it. These would have been put in place with the owner's consent. Even then its not an offence (meaning breaking of law) but rather a stated condition to enjoy the building.

it all hinges on the definition of a public space as i suspected earlier
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Nope. The same exact words are there on many GOI websites as well. I was able to get exact same statement off the Delhi, Chandigarh, Maharashtra, MP, UP state govt sites ( these I can confirm as they turned up in search with exact same press release ).

Same is available on National Informatics centre website as well which is a division of Govt of India, Dept of Information and Technology.

e.g. here is the chandigarh NIC website with the exact same press release.

http://admser.chd.nic.in/uploadfiles/press/pressnote/pr1727.pdf

I dont think anything more needs to be said. Its official govt press release. And ditto same was printed in TOI and ditto same stuff is there on all govt sites which contain this info.

You see power of internet is available for everyone :p and the one who knows how to use it can have more accurate definition/info than even the practicing Lawyer. ;)
 
hanzy said:
The problem occurs when u start blabbering abt human rights and nag the person with that crap instead of coming to the point that its affecting ur health OR ur ill OR there is a baby with u OR watever it maybe.
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Very well said. Smoking has two aspects: Legal and Health related.

The problem with smokers is that they tend to focus more on the legal issue, to just try to overshadow the much much much ^ infinity times important Health issue.

No mater even if your lawyer or for that matter the Government declares smoking "legal", you can in no way run away from the fact that it is one of the major cause of Cancer and Heart Diseases, and many more health related issues.
 
i laugh in the face of the indian government when it comes to enforing bans on tobacco related items .
If they enforce any kind of ban that will impact the consumption of either cigarettes or gutkha , the kind of revenue that they lose is something they cannot bear .
It is already proven with the gutkha ban . Now i see it sold easily everywhere .
Our company tried and restrict smoking thru some half assed tactic to cut smoking . what happened u ask . attrition , plain and simple. they just stopped trying after that ... lol .
 
Funky said:
You see power of internet is available for everyone :p and the one who knows how to use it can have more accurate definition/info than even the practicing Lawyer. ;)
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No doubt and its a good thing, the facts get debated and something new is learned. When in doubt use the code :D

some selective quotes from that release..

This has been done with a view to create awareness among the general public about the Act after Chandigarh became the first Smoke Free City of India with effect from July 15 2003.

that tells me they are going for the kill, that the regulations in that city are already over & above the norm. Yes. maybe in this city you cant get away with it.

All public places, hotels, restaurants, bars, taverns, eateries, etc.must affix a minimum of two prescribed warning boards reading “No Smoking Area – Smoking Here is an Offence.”

They are overruling the private ownership difference here. Quite clearly they are telling the owner to put up a sign. It's his/her private property, but still they are saying you have to do it.

From these points of course i will agree that in Chandi, and maybe to a lesser extent Delhi, Maharashtra, MP, UP (or are they *also* trying to be the first smoke free cities/states in India too :D), chances are you won't be able to use the above counter, need to find out whether the same applies here in south, only a matter of time prolly.

There is alway of course, the matter of compliance, enforcement and therfore penalties for non-compliance, it reads they have empowered
- all police officers of the rank Sub-Inspectors or above
- Food and Drug Inspectors
- members of the Chandigarh Tobacco Control Cell..

Only these ppl are authorised to do the job. In case of doubt ask for ID.
they do however make allowances in some cases

To clear any confusion, it is clarified that an open place not visited by the general public, like
- lawn area outside homes,
- road kerbs
- away from the market, etc.

are considered as open spaces and a person can smoke in such open areas.

So now the term is open space ,they did away with 'public space', preferably one that isn't visited by the public, but road kerbs, lawn area hehe, they had to leave that in if they were to have any hope of passing this rule :D
 
Actually no.

SC passed the judgment in 2002 saying smoking must be restricted in all public places including restaurants which are privately owned and all public indoor and outdoor places.

Tobacco Control Legislation was passed in 2003.

TO toughen the tobaco law, new restrictions were passed by union ministry just a while ago prohibiting smoking in any public place which INCLUDES all the places I mentioned before.

These new restrictions were passed on 19th July 2007. Saw it live on TV followed by coverage of this on TV, epapers and newspapers the following day. So now its clearly a law which includes all places indoor or outdoor that has access to public including private organizations, restaurants, parks, malls, streets. Basically everything except your personally owned or your friend's premises where u wish to smoke or smokers zone which are physically isolated.

So when this is now a law, when someone asks you to put your cigar out in public place you MUST oblige unless you really want to break a law which basically means a legal action can be taken against you if that person decides to lodge a complain.

I know not many will go to such extremes. But I am posting this for info as this is what the law is NOW.
 
You clarified an important point Funky

Funky I asked you to stop smoking...Iam forging a complaint right now...

starts dialing :p

.

.

.

its not easy to file charges...how will they prove it...tie the guy up till police arrives and conduct tobacco tests or something?
 
vij said:
You clarified an important point Funky

Funky I asked you to stop smoking...Iam forging a complaint right now...

starts dialing :p

.

.

.

its not easy to file charges...how will they prove it...tie the guy up till police arrives and conduct tobacco tests or something?
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Not really, in todays world noone can be that arrogant and ignore a request by someone within his legal rights. How many of us have camera phones? Plenty of people these days. I will simply click the pic :p And then lets see if the opposite party listens nicely or not :p

And honestly I havent come across too many smokers who will refuse to put out the light if asked nicely. I have asked some guys in public places and they did put it out after asking nicely.

Its different thing to say that someone wont oblige. But in reality everyone is not so secure or overconfident to discard the legit fare request. General public do think what might happen if I dont put out the cigar. Everyone is little afraid ;)

There are ofcourse few exceptions. And atleast I can deal with them if time comes :p
 
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