Account demoted

@puns

I did not where exactly to post this.
But a senior member @mayank11280 requested me to bring to mods notice.

I am forwarding his message on DM.
Kindly see if anything can be done about this.
Thanks.
Hey.

I am reaching out to you for some totally different reason. My account was demoted out of the blue today from Disciple to Recuit.

You have seen me active in the community for some time now.

Would you please help me out by reaching out to the mods about this sudden demotion?

It seems my messaging privileges have also been taken away.

It all seems unfair.
 
It's not a demotion, the criteria was increased to limit access to the marketplace. This has been mentioned in another thread some months ago.

I think the requirements now are either 40 posts and/or points. Or 50.

edit: or your posts disappeared during the recent forum maintenance, your post count is really low.
 
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About a year or more ago we had bumped the minimum post requirement to 25 posts. About the same time we had moved everyone who was at least a year old on the forum to the Disciple tier even if they did not have 25 posts as we didn't want to inconvenience the old members. The expectation was that they will get their post count to cross 25 in that one year period.

Now we have demoted all such users back to Recruit who still do not have more than 25 posts. I can see OP has just 21 posts, hence the reduced permissions.
 
About a year or more ago we had bumped the minimum post requirement to 25 posts. About the same time we had moved everyone who was at least a year old on the forum to the Disciple tier even if they did not have 25 posts as we didn't want to inconvenience the old members. The expectation was that they will get their post count to cross 25 in that one year period.

Now we have demoted all such users back to Recruit who still do not have more than 25 posts. I can see OP has just 21 posts, hence the reduced permissions.
What’s the objective behind this 25 posts requirement?

If it is to reduce scams in marketplace then two things make it arbitrary:

1. Patron recruits can make sale with even one day account, If I am remembering correctly. That means, they can pull of massive scam with peanuts to pay for patron membership. That doesn’t safeguard against scams.

2. Old reputed members who have proven their credibility in the marketplace face punishment because of this 25 posts limit. The community only loses credible people’s participation in the marketplace.

Singular “posts“ criteria to determine eligibility for marketplace and even ability to post in general section is absurd. This is what I am getting for posting anything anywhere, including this reply.

IMG_4490.jpeg


Moreover, it raises the entry barriers for new members and demotivates them as every post even in general section now requires mod approval. But I won’t digress to defend rights of everyone at this juncture.

I understand that a plural criteria should be effected to ensure that everyone is able to participate, including comprehensive parameters like posts contribution, marketplace reputation, years on forum, etc. You seem to agree too, if that’s not so then Patron membership enabling new members to become full members wouldn’t be there.

Lastly, retrograde measures like demoting old members is arbitrary. Any new measure should have post facto implementation. Making it retrospective is regressive. Tomorrow this post requirement can be changed to 50 and then to 100. We old members will be playing catchup with new rules everyday.
 
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You mention "marketplace" multiple times, so let me clarify :-
TE is a tech forum. Olx is a marketplace.
The 'x' post buffer is so people have time to understand this.
Why not use TE just for your tech discussions, and Olx for a marketplace.

You're correct, TE isn't a safe marketplace. I'm puzzled why people keep aiming for it. And it is a huge waste of mod time.
A billion dollar corp like Olx is going to have the resources to do marketplace better.

Moreover, it raises the entry barriers for new members and demotivates them
There are many new members who have blown past the barrier to 1,000+ posts across the tech forum.
You had unrestricted access for years and not matched them.
Requirements keep getting raised because people keep spamming looking for a marketplace. If they knew about Olx, we could even lower the requirements to 0 posts.

Lastly, retrograde measures like demoting old members is arbitrary.
Actually Renegade had already mentioned these changes way back in 2020.
 
You mention "marketplace" multiple times, so let me clarify :-
TE is a tech forum. Olx is a marketplace.
The 'x' post buffer is so people have time to understand this.
Why not use TE just for your tech discussions, and Olx for a marketplace.

You're correct, TE isn't a safe marketplace. I'm puzzled why people keep aiming for it. And it is a huge waste of mod time.
A billion dollar corp like Olx is going to have the resources to do marketplace better.


There are many new members who have blown past the barrier to 1,000+ posts across the tech forum.
You had unrestricted access for years and not matched them.
Requirements keep getting raised because people keep spamming looking for a marketplace. If they knew about Olx, we could even lower the requirements to 0 posts.


Actually Renegade had already mentioned these changes way back in 2020.
I mentioned marketplace because it is the reason why we are in this mess in the first place. Fear for marketplace safety is causing massive inconveniences for older members. So, yes that needs to be emphasised.

I contribute to the forum in the way it is appropriate, the account history shows that. Moreover, the raised requirements should have been applicable to new users, not the old active users. Post facto is important if a sense of rule has to be maintained. For instance, since it is said that this was notified in 2020, it should have applied to members who joined after the date of notification in 2020.

The only reason I got to know that I have been restricted was when I was trying to interact with the community. That is when I was posting a laptop suggestion post, it got sent to the mods. Even this reply will go to mods. Doesn’t this increase the workload of mods?

If you are suggesting that older members with less than 25 posts need to be babysat even when they are accustomed to the forum then that will only discourage further interactions.

Last but not the least, I have one question for you, do you think this treatment of an old and credible member is fair?
 
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Also, PATRON membership allowing new recruits to bypass post requirement is pretty confusing.

Moreover this post requirement threshold objectives are getting more and more hazy with mods and ex-mods comments.

A decade back when i was a mod, I had asked for the minimum post count to be increased to 50 or 100 i think. People would have a meltdown now if that was introduced.
That was in a different world where forums were still the basis of organising hobbyists. If there was any competition, it was from similar styled forums with similar rules and barriers.

Today, Forums are facing stiff challenge from low entry barrier platforms like Reddit to organise hobbyists. The decline in activity on forums has been a matter of debate across different forums, including this one.

Raising further more barriers for god knows what reason isn’t going to help it. Funny thing is that these absurd rules and arbitrary actions are hastening the disenchantment with the love for forums for the legacy users too while also failing to attract more new users.
 
Also, PATRON membership allowing new recruits to bypass post requirement is pretty confusing.

Patron requires a financial transaction. Take a look at Pay U's or Razorpay's privacy policy. You might as well sit disrobed in the streets.

If someone with Patron status ends up scamming someone, it's not difficult to pursue legal action. Whether or not someone has the compulsion to get up off their chair, consult a lawyer and file a FIR, that is a different discussion.

That was in a different world where forums were still the basis of organising hobbyists.

Funny thing is that these absurd rules and arbitrary actions are hastening the disenchantment with the love for forums for the legacy users too while also failing to attract more new users.

But you barely have 10 posts outside the marketplace in the last 365 days?

I mean, that would be like me disparaging the weather in Shimla when I don't even know where Shimla is on a map.
 
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Patron requires a financial transaction. Take a look at Pay U's or Razorpay's privacy policy. You might as well sit disrobed in the streets.

If someone with Patron status ends up scamming someone, it's not difficult to pursue legal action. Whether or not someone has the compulsion to get up off their chair, consult a lawyer and file a FIR, that is a different discussion.





But you barely have 10 posts outside the marketplace in the last 365 days?

I mean, that would be like me disparaging the weather in Shimla when I don't even know where Shimla is on map.
It seems like you and I are having two totally different discussions.

I am glad that you got to the scam question and identifying the scammer. Since almost all of the transactions on this platform happen within India, all of them can be traced. This patron membership providing any form of security is a farcical argument.

Regarding knowing Shimla on the map. The allegory falls flat because I don’t have to live in Shimla to know the weather. I can simply take a looksee. That is posting = activity is a poor metric of analysing engagement. Viewing and reacting are also engagement.

Let me return you an allegory, suppose you are a full citizen of the country but suddenly it is decided that you need to have a crore rupees to continue to remain citizen, which you couldn’t. Now you are stripped of your fundamental rights and over policed continuously. Ideally, it should be implemented for new citizens but it is being implemented retrospectively and now you are getting affected too.

Now Tell me why shouldn’t this rule be post facto?

Over 24 hours to approve the previous reply. This one went to the mods as well. I am wondering how is this helping anyone.
 
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That was in a different world where forums were still the basis of organising hobbyists. If there was any competition, it was from similar styled forums with similar rules and barriers.

Today, Forums are facing stiff challenge from low entry barrier platforms like Reddit to organise hobbyists. The decline in activity on forums has been a matter of debate across different forums, including this one.

Raising further more barriers for god knows what reason isn’t going to help it. Funny thing is that these absurd rules and arbitrary actions are hastening the disenchantment with the love for forums for the legacy users too while also failing to attract more new users.
You are right about whatever you said. There are also limitations to what you can configure while using a forum software compared to what you can do on Reddit or other platforms which are custom built. There are a few things simmering for a while and held up but until we move away from traditional forum software, we will not be able to do much about it.

The community outlook towards marketplace has been the same since a long time and it has not changed. Nothing is fool proof, however deterrents are desirable. Its always good to have a healthy discussion and your feedback is welcome. It may not get considered right away but it all feeds into the collective wisdom.
:)

PS: In the 8 years that you have been a member, you have made 12 market transactions on TE and 21 posts. Another 4 posts will take you over the current threshold.
 
TE is an amazing place. But let's not overlook the fact that one of its biggest appeals (for many) is the Classifieds section.
Perhaps mods could tweak the Patron's conditions for some "Equity" with members who contribute to the forum and earn their way up instead of paying a fee and bypassing the conditions.
Perhaps it might motivate seasoned but infrequent members who are stuck or demoted.
 
Viewing and reacting are also engagement.

But neither of those contribute to the discussion. There's no contribution to the forum collective when you don't take part and share opinions/ideas/thoughts.

Post count based ranking is exactly that, if you're merely an observer why would any rank appeal to you? Membership would suffice for lurking.

Unless if your primary reason for the membership is the marketplace, but then that would negate everything you've said in protest of forums being a refuge for hobbyists.

If everyone ended up with a post count like yours, we'd be just uncles sitting in a circle, sipping tea and occasionally grunting while avoiding eye contact.
 
But neither of those contribute to the discussion. There's no contribution to the forum collective when you don't take part and share opinions/ideas/thoughts.

Post count based ranking is exactly that, if you're merely an observer why would any rank appeal to you? Membership would suffice for lurking.

Unless if your primary reason for the membership is the marketplace, but then that would negate everything you've said in protest of forums being a refuge for hobbyists.

If everyone ended up with a post count like yours, we'd be just uncles sitting in a circle, sipping tea and occasionally grunting while avoiding eye contact.
This is a weird argument.

You know, if post count matters for marketplace and one was eligible on the past criteria then shifting that goal post is a bad play. This ratcheting mechanism is unfair.

My argument was about that alone. The rest were questions to the mods about what their end goals, for which I hypothesised possible answers. It baffles me that the core of the discussion is lost to peripheral arguments. I will request you to stick to the core.

Coming to the peripheral arguments which you keep on using to vilify me as some sort of a hypocrite. My protest was to changing standards putting infrequent seasoned members to the status of newbies. My argument was about post facto treatment. If you read my posts again, you will find, I came to know of this limitation only when I was posting about laptop recommendations. If post requirement was to encourage forum participation, any reasonable person will find this measure self-defeating.

What I also find a difficult to digest proposition is that I wanting to participate in marketplace is a bad idea. You participate too. So, what’s the problem with I, who has positively concluded more trades than many patrons and other members: including some mods wanting the access and reputation which I earned back?

It appears for some the argument is not on how to make forum more accessible and inclusive but how to gate-keep and feel exclusive, including to throw other members under the bus using a shifting goal post. Shy members be damned. If they say anything, claim they are not a good member to the forum.

If marketplace is such a bad place where those who had access, had reputation and had their access revoked is a good thing then get rid of marketplace altogether. If it is the part of the forum then those who had access and reputation should mean something on this forum as a whole.

Even now this argument is happening on an unequal plane. I post something it takes upto 24 or more hours to be approved by the mods. You get to have an express say, I have to wait, even though I have been around way longer. And We are not even in the marketplace.

And if the post threshold is to limit marketplace access to prevent fraud then I don’t understand why this restriction is imposed on the general forum. Forget about the shifting goal posts.

To summarise:

1. Shifting goal post is unfair. Rules should be post facto, else in between game rules can be changed which is a bad play.

2. Older members should have the rights they had before the new rules were imposed.

3. Shyness should not be weaponised against the shy. You may be vocal, good for you. Don’t force it on the other members. Diversity is the essence of this community.

4. Marketplace restrictions should apply only to the marketplace.
 
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It seems like you and I are having two totally different discussions.

It absolutely feels that way.

Here's my understanding: despite the ground reality of how things actually are, the marketplace is a fringe part of the forum, intended for members to dispose of unwanted purchases to like-minded people. The core and main purpose of the forum will always been the proliferation of knowledge, advice and experience.

At least that is what I've understood from what the mods/admins have stated here in this thread and elsewhere over the years.

Logic then followe that anyone who is here primarily for the marketplace is not here for the betterment of the forum, they're just looking for an OLX or Facebook alternative as either a dumping ground or swiping a good deal.

Are you able to see this perspective?

Then, to discourage marketplace participation, especially for members who are here solely for the marketplace, post count barriers are put in place.

Again, this seems logical to me since if you're here part of the forum collective, it is expected you'd be part of the myriad of discussions that happen here and would not have a diminutive post count that is attributed to shyness — yours is averagjng 3 posts per year of membership. That's not being infrequent or shy, that's a celestial body orbiting the solar system.

Anyway I'm only here for the discussion and you've brought about a change here where the threshold for moderated posts has been dropped from 25 to 5, so you have made it easier for newer/shyer members with your singular voice of protest — which is honestly nice.
 
It took less than an hour for a Novice tier member to find and exploit a loophole :rolleyes:
Another misuse of today's rule change (no moderation after 5 posts).

 
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