TinTinSnowy
Adept
I have experienced the file management capabilities are very limited in iOS. Android is generations ahead in this regard. I personally don't recommend an iPhone now a days unless you need to be part of the Apple eco system.
Other Android v/s iOS - 2021
- Thread starter TinTinSnowy
- Start date
raksrules
Elite
This is a known fact even for people who use iDevices. People who use the iPhone are using with the knowledge about what the device is capable of.
This thread is more about the new launched iPhone and other devices and comparing to its precessors and not compared to any other device or OS.
superczar
Skilled
Not really , ios relies on metadata based file management while android uses traditional hierarchical method.
Technically hierarchical is older , not newer..
Anyway , Neither method is inherently superior if you know how to leverage it the right way - it's just that most of us are used to the latter
I have the g8x as well - great phone
However like most androids, it has started felling a little bloated/ glitchy after a year or so..
OTOH, the ip x i had felt pretty much as fast as new till I sold it after almost 4 years of usage..
To the extent that the replacement (ip12) doesn't necessarily feel faster despite a 3 generation difference..
TinTinSnowy
Adept
Metadata based file management sucks and it's no way for power user. Justify all you want. Lack of automation apps like Tasker is also major drawback. I have used iOS for 4 years before switching back to Android. I use M51 as my primary device and I charge once in 2 days due to it's large battery capacity. Tasker + TouchTask ensure that most of things are automated on my device.
Get a Pixel/OP device & Flash LineageOS for smooth day to day experience. I am running LineageOS on OnePlus3T and it is smooth for day to day operations.
Anyways we are going off-topic now.
Get a Pixel/OP device & Flash LineageOS for smooth day to day experience. I am running LineageOS on OnePlus3T and it is smooth for day to day operations.
Anyways we are going off-topic now.
If its alright with you, and I know its off-topic but can I know the need for an automation on a phone?
As far as rooting a mobile/flashing a ROM although really amazing at times is a question of trial and error personally I would never dabble into rooting at all (too many variables to go wrong with) and I think many might agree with me on that. Its great if its your hobby and you have the time to check all the intricacies of the ROM.
Just curious to know, what sort of automation does one need on a phone.
Maybe its an Lg thing. I havent felt a difference in day to day performance moving from Oneplus 3 to Poco f1 to iphone xs. Occasional app freezing on all three of them but not enough to bother. OP3 has been the most glitchfree of all and was used for 2.5 years.
Completely agree that the decent performance on older devices means that there is no need to upgrade especially on ios when you know the phone is still supported by the manufacturer.
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superczar
Skilled
That's your personal preference.. no?
Why would that be a power/non-power user thing
tried the native scripting app? Shortcuts
Personal preference again?
Quantitively, the A series arm chips are noticeably beefier that their android counterparts
Also the OS is far better optimized to leverage said hardware
the two facts above would make ios+ A14/A15 significantly speedier for anyone - objectively
On a side note, as much as I like android (and I do), OEMs are making it increasingly more difficult to recommend an android to anyone looking for a premium phone.
I don't like that fact - like I said, I like android .. and competition is good anyway - but it is what it is
TinTinSnowy
Adept
Flashing a custom rom & rooting is a completely different thing. I do not prefer rooting due to weakened security. I only recommend flashing custom roms on Google Pixels & OnePlus Devices as they support locking the bootloader with custom keys. You can install custom rom and yet enjoy all the security features. I had no need to reflash the rom again in years. I get auto updates and lineageos (based on aosp) is very smooth and clean. Just check out how clean AOSP is. I prefer AOSP over anything in terms of UI. I don't recommend the fancy roms you see on XDA which are bloated as hell. I recommend GrapheneOS/CalyxOS if you have a Pixel device or LineageOS if you have a oneplus device.
Various things. For examples
Double tapping on the fingerprint sensors wakes up my PC by sending WOL packets.
Double press on the fingerprint sensor opens up Signal app and unlocks it. (My only messaging app on the phone)
Swiping up on the fingerprint sensor puts my phone on DND with custom settings to allow some calls and notifications.
Swiping down on the fingerprint sensor reverts the phone to normal state.
Double tapping on back of the phone starts file server on my device. Can access all the device files on the PC.
I have also various unique UI interaction automations depending upon the app and the open website in the browser. Also have many time based and location based tasks running on the device.
@superczar Native Shortcuts app is pretty limited. Vertical Integration of iOS with superior hardware does give it a edge. But I have not noticed any slow down on day to day operations on any android device. Gaming experience on iPhone 12 is much superior though. But I don't game on mobile. What I like about android is the customizability, accessibility and foss apps. I have a lot of open source app options to choose from which respect privacy. I get most of my apps on android from F-Droid Store.
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TinTinSnowy
Adept
I am sorry for going off-topic. I am putting my thoughts since the discussion had already went this path.
I was playing around with iPhone 12 today. I was able to notice a very huge list where I find iOS lacking in regards to Android. iPhone is good for my parents but not for me. I find it dumb. I can only hope for an iPhone with MacOS instead of iOS in the future. Better to buy a decent android phone and replace it every 3 years. iPhones are good for long update support (6-7 years of security patches), camera quality and error free experience. But that comes at the cost of limiting the user. Androids are also catching up with updates now. Project Mainline, Treble and Longer OEM commitments is making the experience better.
Lack of features in iOS which makes it dumb: (Call it my opinion but it's the truth. Counter it if you can)
1) Limited File Management Capabilities - You need to save files to find it later. What a joke! Difficult to navigate files. It's much easier to navigate / find files in Android and there are powerful file explorer apps which you can use to get more things done.
2) Easy Sharing of Files between Devices - I want to plug my phone into my pc and access my files with ease on Windows devices as well. I want to start a file server from my device and access them on PC. I want something like Syncthing which automatically syncs the Downloads Folder on My PC and my Mobile. It also syncs the backups and the keepass file to access the passwords. I don't want to go to cloud route for these things.
3) Standard Charger - I can charge my phone anywhere. All devices at my home uses type c including my Soundcore headphones. iPad have moved towards type c and hopefully iPhones will follow.
4) Notification Management - Android handles notifications way better.
5) Always on Display - I like to have the calendar and some information metrics on AOD on my samsung display.
6) Sideloading - Sideloading apps on android is child's play. Apple can defend all they care about user's security but the real goal is to make money off their App Store.
7) Ad-blocking - I use Adguard as system wide dns and have ad blocking all across the phone.
8) Fingerprint Sensor - Using a big notch for face id sensor for better security but when face id is itself less secure than a finger print sensor. Get TouchID and be done with FaceID & the notch. You can be all covered and still unlock your phone with a more secure option (fingerprint unlock)
9) Poor Battery & Slow Charging - Android is packed with larger battery and tops it up with fasting charging. My phone have 7000mah battery and the freedom to charge your phone once in 2 days is a bliss.
10) Lack of FOSS Apps - There is growth in the number of open source foss apps on iOS but still very few. I personally enjoy using Aegis (2FA), AnySoftKeyboard (Keyboard), Bromite (Chromium based browser), Material Files (File Manager), KeePassDX (Password Manager), Syncthing (File sync between devices), NewPipe (Youtube Client)
11) Limited Automation Capabilities - I have found no app comparable to Tasker on iOS. Even the shortcuts app is pretty limited. It is because iOS restricts the user which might be good for average user. Automation apps on android can change system settings, manage ui via accessibility settings and draw over other apps permissions. You can give more permissions via ADB. Ofcourse you need to trust the apps which you give these permissions. There are apps with no network permission or open source code to use. You can also disable network access for apps on Android. It's native AOSP features but some OEMs do not deploy it. You can use VPN based firewall in that case.
I can go on but this gives you an idea. Just try AOSP based UI for once and you will never feel like using anything else.
I was playing around with iPhone 12 today. I was able to notice a very huge list where I find iOS lacking in regards to Android. iPhone is good for my parents but not for me. I find it dumb. I can only hope for an iPhone with MacOS instead of iOS in the future. Better to buy a decent android phone and replace it every 3 years. iPhones are good for long update support (6-7 years of security patches), camera quality and error free experience. But that comes at the cost of limiting the user. Androids are also catching up with updates now. Project Mainline, Treble and Longer OEM commitments is making the experience better.
Lack of features in iOS which makes it dumb: (Call it my opinion but it's the truth. Counter it if you can)
1) Limited File Management Capabilities - You need to save files to find it later. What a joke! Difficult to navigate files. It's much easier to navigate / find files in Android and there are powerful file explorer apps which you can use to get more things done.
2) Easy Sharing of Files between Devices - I want to plug my phone into my pc and access my files with ease on Windows devices as well. I want to start a file server from my device and access them on PC. I want something like Syncthing which automatically syncs the Downloads Folder on My PC and my Mobile. It also syncs the backups and the keepass file to access the passwords. I don't want to go to cloud route for these things.
3) Standard Charger - I can charge my phone anywhere. All devices at my home uses type c including my Soundcore headphones. iPad have moved towards type c and hopefully iPhones will follow.
4) Notification Management - Android handles notifications way better.
5) Always on Display - I like to have the calendar and some information metrics on AOD on my samsung display.
6) Sideloading - Sideloading apps on android is child's play. Apple can defend all they care about user's security but the real goal is to make money off their App Store.
7) Ad-blocking - I use Adguard as system wide dns and have ad blocking all across the phone.
8) Fingerprint Sensor - Using a big notch for face id sensor for better security but when face id is itself less secure than a finger print sensor. Get TouchID and be done with FaceID & the notch. You can be all covered and still unlock your phone with a more secure option (fingerprint unlock)
9) Poor Battery & Slow Charging - Android is packed with larger battery and tops it up with fasting charging. My phone have 7000mah battery and the freedom to charge your phone once in 2 days is a bliss.
10) Lack of FOSS Apps - There is growth in the number of open source foss apps on iOS but still very few. I personally enjoy using Aegis (2FA), AnySoftKeyboard (Keyboard), Bromite (Chromium based browser), Material Files (File Manager), KeePassDX (Password Manager), Syncthing (File sync between devices), NewPipe (Youtube Client)
11) Limited Automation Capabilities - I have found no app comparable to Tasker on iOS. Even the shortcuts app is pretty limited. It is because iOS restricts the user which might be good for average user. Automation apps on android can change system settings, manage ui via accessibility settings and draw over other apps permissions. You can give more permissions via ADB. Ofcourse you need to trust the apps which you give these permissions. There are apps with no network permission or open source code to use. You can also disable network access for apps on Android. It's native AOSP features but some OEMs do not deploy it. You can use VPN based firewall in that case.
I can go on but this gives you an idea. Just try AOSP based UI for once and you will never feel like using anything else.
Thanks for writing this, believe it or not I used to use most of the features such as sideloading, ad blocking, always on displays (this was during android 4.4) etc, overtime did get over this but the fact that you stated about update cycles is something that even as a current iPhone user I am looking into. Considering the fact that no one treats their phone as a gift from god after 6 months, you can rough house it and you may need to repair it at some point. At that time getting an another android phone would be more suitable then running around like a headless chicken to get an iPhone repaired which in all honesty is a chore of itself.
tech.monk
Adept
Here is the reference to it
Post in thread 'Apple Event — September 14, 2021' https://techenclave.com/threads/apple-event-—-september-14-2021.201043/post-2304999
Stronk
Adept
Same reason as why the iPad doesn't have a calculator app - stubbornness for "perfection" or "doing something radically different". I remember Linus and Luke talking about it in a WAN show stream, but can't find the exact clip rn.
superczar
Skilled
I won’t go into a point by point rebuttal as it’s futile
However I don’t understand why people have the misconception that there is no hierarchical file management in ios.
I get the exact same desktop/document/downloads etc folder structure (along with subfolders) and files as I have on my windows or mac laptop
e.g. if I want to attach a file in gmail, i could either use:
Metadata - search for a known attribute/ name of file and share to gmail (which is what I prefer)
But if i must stick to the traditional route:
Hierarchical - click on attach - > attachments -> to browse to my (e.g.) documents>2021>August folder - which as mentioned is an exact replica of my PC
Granted this relies on enabling cloud backup (which one should anyway) - but nothing prevents a user from recreating same folder structure on the local device either.
what am I missing here?
However I don’t understand why people have the misconception that there is no hierarchical file management in ios.
I get the exact same desktop/document/downloads etc folder structure (along with subfolders) and files as I have on my windows or mac laptop
e.g. if I want to attach a file in gmail, i could either use:
Metadata - search for a known attribute/ name of file and share to gmail (which is what I prefer)
But if i must stick to the traditional route:
Hierarchical - click on attach - > attachments -> to browse to my (e.g.) documents>2021>August folder - which as mentioned is an exact replica of my PC
Granted this relies on enabling cloud backup (which one should anyway) - but nothing prevents a user from recreating same folder structure on the local device either.
what am I missing here?
You can go point by point not a problem. This entire thread was created just for that.
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superczar
Skilled
I could do that - but like I said, it would be futile if people work on preconceived notions.
As an example, the post I referenced talks highly of the automation capabilities of android (which is true , no doubt)
But as a foil to the lack of it on iOS .
For what it’s worth, my personal automation build that hugely leverages Apple homekit was covered by hackaday.com as a full article (hackaday)
wouldn’t have been the case if said capabilities were sorely lacking, no?
(PS: I did not submit it either, someone somewhere simply found my repo on github)
Just to add, sideloading is sometimes pretty helpful there are quite a few times when I have experienced a major annoyance in APP updates even in IOS, notably in many apps such as TD Ameritrade's ThinkorSwim (that comes to my mind in the most recent manner) on android I used to make a backup every 3-6 months of the APKs just in case if I ever needed them later on.
But again pricing is a major concern, now if you earn enough or upgrade yearly or every 2 years, I guess its a moot point or if you're highly invested in the Apple Ecosystem and/or need it for your work. At the same time, the average user one who may buy an Apple mobile which was way out of his/her comfort zone will see a major pinch. To give you an example, I carry two phones with me right now, one is an iPhone 8 Plus and the other a Samsung M31 (office use). I can literally feel my phone being outdated as I hold the M31 now, bad battery (not that it was mind blowing even then) for the iPhone where the M31 works for days and mind you that M31 gets more calls is always connected to the WIFI has 4G on 24/7. The iPhone on the other hand the screen just looks extremely outdated even when kept side by side.
Props to Apple to support their devices, but realistically a person would love to change their mobile after 2 or 3 years. Apple does offer 5-6 years of support don't get me wrong that's great, but the only reason a person may use a mobile that long is to justify their purchase, nothing else. Expensive to repair, hard to maintain, extremely over priced (at least when we take India into consideration) are all things that come to mind. One more thing is after 2 or even 3 years there are always notable improvements in phone technologies never has it happened it remains stagnant, maybe its the camera, could be a huge bump in storage or heck new displays. All these things give a new feel to the device, naturally that does not mean you should only buy android (and super expensive android phones at that) but a budget up to 35000 and you're set for 2 or even 3 years, break the cost down yearly that's 17500 or 11666 (approx every year) stretch it out to 4 years and that's 8750 every year. Now take an iPhone the 13 is for 80000 now unless you literally go on to use the phone for 8 years or like Warren Buffet buy it forever you wont be able to get anywhere near the value the android phone gave you.
But again pricing is a major concern, now if you earn enough or upgrade yearly or every 2 years, I guess its a moot point or if you're highly invested in the Apple Ecosystem and/or need it for your work. At the same time, the average user one who may buy an Apple mobile which was way out of his/her comfort zone will see a major pinch. To give you an example, I carry two phones with me right now, one is an iPhone 8 Plus and the other a Samsung M31 (office use). I can literally feel my phone being outdated as I hold the M31 now, bad battery (not that it was mind blowing even then) for the iPhone where the M31 works for days and mind you that M31 gets more calls is always connected to the WIFI has 4G on 24/7. The iPhone on the other hand the screen just looks extremely outdated even when kept side by side.
Props to Apple to support their devices, but realistically a person would love to change their mobile after 2 or 3 years. Apple does offer 5-6 years of support don't get me wrong that's great, but the only reason a person may use a mobile that long is to justify their purchase, nothing else. Expensive to repair, hard to maintain, extremely over priced (at least when we take India into consideration) are all things that come to mind. One more thing is after 2 or even 3 years there are always notable improvements in phone technologies never has it happened it remains stagnant, maybe its the camera, could be a huge bump in storage or heck new displays. All these things give a new feel to the device, naturally that does not mean you should only buy android (and super expensive android phones at that) but a budget up to 35000 and you're set for 2 or even 3 years, break the cost down yearly that's 17500 or 11666 (approx every year) stretch it out to 4 years and that's 8750 every year. Now take an iPhone the 13 is for 80000 now unless you literally go on to use the phone for 8 years or like Warren Buffet buy it forever you wont be able to get anywhere near the value the android phone gave you.