User Review Bosch SMS60L12IN Dishwasher Review

I was in search of dishwasher reviews for the past couple of years, specially from Indian users.
I couldn't find much except for a review or two on YouTube, but they were not in detail for me to take the plunge.

Finally I bit the bullet and bought a Bosch SMS60L12IN from Amazon for 31.5k.

I'd summarize few points which might be useful for prospective buyers.
This review applies to all dishwashers in general since all the models from different brands sold in India are more or less with similar specs.

Which Brand?
  • AFAIK Bosch, IFB, Siemens, LG & Samsung sell dishwashers in India.

  • Bosch has only one model in two colors with different model numbers.
    People quoted that the silver model is an upgraded one with water saving features blah blah blah.
    But I verified the specs and both are in fact color variants of same model.

    Siemens has a model or two IIRC, but they are priced higher and share 90% of the components with Bosch. Both are sold and serviced by same channels too.

  • IFB has 5-6 models, out of which all the models have 12 place holders except the top of the line Neptune SX1, which has 15 place holders. This particular model has extra pullout basket for small cutlery, which is of practical use. I later found out how significant this feature is (More on this later).

  • LG and Samsung sell one model each, which are priced higher and I doubt their after sales service w.r.t dishwashers.

  • I found build quality to be better in Bosch.

  • In terms of service I heard/found Bosch to be better, can't comment on the spares availability/cost of spares at this moment. There are many horror stories about IFB service, so I stayed out of this brand.
Purchase and Installation

  • For months, I pestered almost all major stores for a demo and no one gave a positive reply. Croma, Bajaj electronics have a Bosch demo dishwasher with transparent window to see how the dishwasher works etc, but they never showed interest in showing a demo as well.

  • All of them were offering a discount of 1-2 k, so I chose Amazon as I was getting it for almost 8k discount on MRP. These store guys were selling very old stocks, but the one I ordered from Amazon was imported in Dec 2016. I think all Bosch dishwashers sold in India are made in Turkey.

  • I got a installation request acknowledgement from Bosch on the very next day I ordered on Amazon. They had been following up for installation even before it was delivered from Amazon and installation was done within hours of delivery. Satisfied with the overall purchase and installation experience.

  • There is nothing complicated about installation, just connecting the inlet hose and proper drainage for drain pipe. The purpose of waiting for installation is more or less to verify damage and to avail warranty.

  • Also ours is a free standing unit, if you want to integrate this into kitchen, you might need to get some additional work done to mount the machine into place.

What are these three cleaning agents?
  • A dishwasher needs a combination of three cleaning agents. Using all three( Salt+Detergent+Rinse Aid ) is the key to perfectly washed dishes. You can use any brand of dishwasher cleaning agents, as long as they are dishwasher compatible.

    Bosch recommends "Finish" products, which are imported and cost a bomb when compared to other brands. IFB sells their own brand of cleaning agents.

    We personally use & recommend Fortune Products >> http://fortunedishwashing.com/
    They are cheaper compared to imported brands.
    I compared the wash quality with Finish and I couldn't find any difference.
    Many Bosch/IFB users gave similar feedback about Fortune products.
    They are not easily available in super markets, but you can order from their website or their Amazon store.

  • What are these three cleaning agents anyway?
    • Salt - Don't confuse this for normal table salt.
      This is special salt, used to convert hard water into soft water which prevents hard water stains(white powdery stains) on the dishes. It is mandatory if your water hardness is medium to high. Depending on your dishwasher model, you can adjust the salt dispensing levels.

      You don't need to refill salt for every wash, you need to refill once in a month or two based on usage.In our case, we use dishwasher everyday and we need to refill it once a month with 1KG of salt. Cost of refill is around Rs. 100 per KG.

      http://fortunedishwashing.com/product/fortune-dishwasher-salt/

    • Detergent - As the name suggests, these are detergents specially made for dishwashers.
      You need to fill the detergent for every wash, just like a washing machine.

      http://fortunedishwashing.com/product/fortune-dishwasher-detergent-1-kg-pack/

    • Rinse Aid - It is a special liquid used to reduce the surface tension of water, so that water won't stick on the dishes during rinsing. This actually makes a lot of difference to the final wash quality. If you don't use it, then the dishes would have water droplet stains and white stains.

      You might have to refill rinse aid every 10 washes on average. So a 500ml Rinse Aid should be sufficient for a month or two, if you use the dishwasher daily.

      http://fortunedishwashing.com/product/fortune-rinse-aid/

      You can buy a combo pack of all three, which is more in tune with the usage cycle.
      http://fortunedishwashing.com/produ...tarter-combo-pack-free-descaler-worth-rs-150/

    • All in one Tablets - If you are lazy and don't want to buy all three of them and refill every time. These all in one tablets come with a combo of Detergent/Salt & Rinse aid all in a single tablet. You will need to use one tablet per wash.

      Manual says that if your water hardness is medium to high, then you would still need to use salt in addition to these tablets. I've tried to use tablet alone and the results weren't great. Ended up using the additional salt as well. So I won't recommend tablets, plus these are costly compared to the purchasing the individual detergents.

      For example, this costs almost 1200 for 34 tablets >> http://www.amazon.in/Finish-All-Max-Powerball-Tablets/dp/B01ET6E9XE?tag=googinhydr18418-21

Stacking the dishes and Usage
  • You need to dump all left over food particles from the utensils. Soaking is not necessary for normal utensils. Wok's on which deep fries are done, would wash well with soaking.

  • Plates go into plate holders and large dishes go on bottom rack.
    Small plates, cups, small utensils go into the top rack. There is a free standing basket for cutlery into which you place all the ladles, forks & spoons. But using this basket is tricky, as it can be placed only on bottom basket and is difficult to fit in if the bottom layer is full. This is where extra basket in IFB Neptune SX1 comes handy. Otherwise you are forced to use the assorted holder in the top rack for placing spoons and forks.

  • All dishes should be facing downwards on the racks and should not be stacked on top of other.
    Stacking the dishes is tricky and time taking for the first few runs till you get the hang of it.

  • Once you are done stacking, check for the refill indicators. Only for the first use you need to fill the salt and rinse aid. Post that you need to fill them only if the respective refill indicator is lit.
    As I had mentioned earlier, refill cycle is roughly once a month for salt and once every 10 - 15 washes for Rinse Aid (100-150ml per refill).

  • Now comes the wash options, depending on the model there will be Auto, Eco and Intense modes.
    We normally use Eco and Auto modes and are yet to use Intense kadai mode.
    Since water temperature goes to around 70 degrees, we never risked using that mode owing to plastic boxes in the wash.

    Auto/Eco modes usually take 1.5 hrs for the cycle to finish.

    Unlike a washing machine, there is no lock for the door, no sound indicators for the wash completion.
    You can open the door in the middle of wash, it automatically pauses and resumes once the door is shut. But avoid opening the door as the vapor that spews out is very hot.

    Once the wash cycle is done, machine turns itself off without any buzzer.
Wash Quality
  • Aluminium, Wood and plastics which are not dishwasher compatible should not be used in dishwasher according to manual. I tried aluminium dishes, they got cleaned properly, but are slightly discolored and have white stains even after rinse aid is used. So I won't recommend using aluminium utensils.
    I've used wooden spatula's and wash is fine.

    Silverware, steel, glass and food grade plastics are washed perfectly. Shine on the utensils and the squeaky noise from the clean dishes is so satisfying.

  • Specially if you are using Tupperware boxes for carrying lunch, the difference in wash quality is reason enough for you to buy a dishwasher. Even those sticky oil stains are washed perfectly, leaving the boxes squeaky clean. When we used to wash the dishes manually, getting the oil stains from plastic boxes is a nightmare and oil stains never used to go off.
Power Consumption
  • This particular model is rated at 1.5KW, but I guess that rating is only for the heating element.
    Never calculated the actual usage, but should be on par with any washing machine if not less.
    There is no significant spike in electricity bill, so I never bothered to check the power usage in detail.

I will add a few pictures later today, of the dishwasher and utensils before/after wash.

My parents were reluctant to get rid of the maid and get a dishwasher instead. They were apprehensive about the performance earlier, but after looking at the wash quality, even they are on the scout for a dishwasher. Since I know the practical advantages of an extra rack, I'm pushing for IFB Neptune SX1 and will update this review accordingly if we end up buying that.


This is how dishwasher was delivered by Amazon. Luckily no damages.

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A few pics from yesterday's wash cycle.

Notice that refill rinse aid indicator is lit. It's been almost 3 weeks since last refill.

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After refill, with the indicator off.

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After the wash cycle.
Those plastic flap like things you see at the bottom of the pic is where you add the detergent and the rinse aid.
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Bottom rack, where plates and large utensils usually go.

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Top rack. Since the bottom rack is full and we couldn't fit the small cutlery basket, We had to improvise and use the Etagere for small cutlery.

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Notice how the stainless steel utensils are shiny. If you don't use rinse aid, there will be a cloudy layer of water droplet marks over them.

I'll do a set of before/after wash pics of dishes, once I get some time over the weekend.
 
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What do you mean?

If you take the lid off then aren't you going to introduce steam inside the counter? That will rot whatever material they are made of.
Bosch standalone models in India, were always sold as dual mounting models.
The top lid stays as it is in standalone option, but it can be removed if you wish to use the machine as under bench (under counter-top) model.

Bosch manual indeed has the following instructions for using the standalone model as undercounter.
You can even remove the bottom plinth panel if you wish to have a different panel to match the plinth of your kitchen.
It's been over 5 years since I unboxed ours, but I vaguely remember that the bottom plinth panel came separately, and it was attached during installation.

1662018583915.png


The following image might make it a bit clearer.
The only differentiating factors with semi-integrated/fully integrated models are the removable front panels and button placements on the inside.
A few integrated models do come with LED lighting inside.

161898112_2338343392977068_5040680520598356751_n.jpg
 
Alright here's the story,

We didn't have plans to demolish the countertop initially but because of some other factors, we had to get rid of it. So as we are remodelling our countertop too, I made a few changes in design.

Original plan with old countertop:
View attachment 144658

Old countertop had height of 80cm. So upper surface of the countertop was 80 cm from the floor.
Out of those 80, 10cm is the base that goes below the modular trolleys.
Also the countertop stone (granite + kadappa) is 10cm.
As you can see the usable space was 60cm only in the old design.
Full size dishwashers have 85 cm. So there's a clear deficit of the 25cm.

Now,
I got permission from high command to raise the height of the new countertop from 80 to 85. That would mean using thinner roti rolling board. And using thick sleepers while cooking.
The deficit now is 20 = 25 - 5

No 10cm base below the dishwasher. Dishwasher will now sit directly on the floor.
The deficit now is 10 = 20 - 10

No kadappa on top of dishwasher. Granite will be supported by a 10mm thick steel plate. So the actual countertop slab above dishwasher will only be 3cm thick. I save 7cm.
The deficit now is 3 = 10 - 7

Here's the kicker though. On many dishwashers, one can remove the top cover. The cover is actually empty and easily removable. The cover is 3cm thick. :cool:
The deficit now is 0 = 3 - 3

Take off the top cover of your dishwasher and you'll get more headroom literally.

This explains what I mean,
View attachment 144661
I have moved sink to the right. New sink has a drainboard. And the full size dishwasher is under it without the top cover. You can fit the dishwasher like so.

However, I have scrapped this design too. I have now moved the sink more to the right and the dishwasher will be in the shelf. This will give you idea: (the design is still unfinished)
View attachment 144664
As you can see, the dishwasher has top cover on it. And it's at the same height of that countertop of 85cm.
In theory, it looks great. Do keep in mind that you will have to keep moving the Dishwasher out of its space once in a while. To do that you need wriggle room. I would suggest that you maintain at least 3" between the sides of the walls of the Dishwasher and the side wall of the counter. BTW, good rendering.
 
Can anybody explain why dishwasher prices are all over the place? If I look closely all dishwasher are identical in terms of internal space, features and capacity. These are some of the simplest machines out there. I mean a 10k washing machine is more complicated than 50k dishwasher.

Talking about 12-16 place dishwashers,

You can get midea, galanz, amazonbasics between 14 to 20k
samsung, beko is available from 23k
ifb is 27 to 40k
LG and bosch cost 45k +

These all look identical. What am I missing? The actual cleaning performance should be down to cleaning agent we use rather than the machine itself.

The only reason I could think of indian customer isn't much informed about dishwashers and bosch, ifb are established players of this domain are ripping off the customers.

Before I had a look at the dishwashers, I used to think these must be some advanced machinery. But when I had time to look in dishwashers I found these are simple metal boxes who play holi with our dishwash using a rotating pichkari.
 
@lockhrt999 Volumes! Demand for Dishwashers is much lower compared to Washing Machines in India. It's also perceived as a luxury product in India. So manufacturers will want to earn maximum money before they go mainstream like washing machines.
 

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Skilled
Can anybody explain why dishwasher prices are all over the place? If I look closely all dishwasher are identical in terms of internal space, features and capacity. These are some of the simplest machines out there. I mean a 10k washing machine is more complicated than 50k dishwasher.

Talking about 12-16 place dishwashers,

You can get midea, galanz, amazonbasics between 14 to 20k
samsung, beko is available from 23k
ifb is 27 to 40k
LG and bosch cost 45k +

These all look identical. What am I missing? The actual cleaning performance should be down to cleaning agent we use rather than the machine itself.

The only reason I could think of indian customer isn't much informed about dishwashers and bosch, ifb are established players of this domain are ripping off the customers.

Before I had a look at the dishwashers, I used to think these must be some advanced machinery. But when I had time to look in dishwashers I found these are simple metal boxes who play holi with our dishwash using a rotating pichkari.
Supply as in volumes has been mentioned already. Price fluctuates as they get more in stock.

The next is whether it's made in country or imported. Since these machines are still relatively new my guess is the pricier ones are made abroad. The serial numbers would reveal that.

And finally, it's the support network. Repair personnel and availability of spares. If you notice the Chinese ones are the cheapest because at that price they do a run for a couple of years say and move on to another model. Forget getting any spares after that. This is the general rule with any Chinese appliances that are cheaper than more established brands. Many go for the cheapest and then realise later. They outsource support to the cheapest they can find and that is what you will live with.
 
And finally, it's the support network. Repair personnel and availability of spares. If you notice the Chinese ones are the cheapest because at that price they do a run for a couple of years say and move on to another model. Forget getting any spares after that. This is the general rule with any Chinese appliances that are cheaper than more established brands. Many go for the cheapest and then realise later. They outsource support to the cheapest they can find and that is what you will live with.
But then established brand charge a big fraction of the new machine price even for the small repair work and it could take them a long time to source the part. As in the other thread, guy's bosch WM broke just outside the warranty and now service center is telling him to repairing will cost 70% of new machine (which will be in warranty BTW). How to justify that?

Yes, chinese brand might be outsourcing their service but then again it's not like there aren't any horror stories with established brands either.
 

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Skilled
But then established brand charge a big fraction of the new machine price even for the small repair work and it could take them a long time to source the part.
Where have you seen reports for this with dishwashers? if you pay 30k then a 5k fix isn't a big fraction.
As in the other thread, guy's bosch WM broke just outside the warranty and now service center is telling him to repairing will cost 70% of new machine (which will be in warranty BTW). How to justify that?
That guy is a one-time poster. Let him post more details. I've seen many posts like this on consumercomplaints.in website and very few details are given.

It sounds like he needs a tub replacement. I have no idea how he killed his machine in just two years. Maybe hard water, overloading and the wrong type of detergents that foam a lot. Which falls under not using the machine properly.
Yes, chinese brand might be outsourcing their service but then again it's not like there aren't any horror stories with established brands either.
If you can't get the part the machine is as good as useless.
 
If you can't get the part the machine is as good as useless.
That's the point of buying cheap things. You don't bother replacing defective part if you can't get it easily. Throw exchange the machine away and buy another.

See, there are many threads on this forum about people complaining their sony/lg/samsung tv stopped working and service center is asking bomb. How many threads do you see for MiTV? Mi sells more TVs than them and yet not many so many threads about them. Either Mi makes reliable TVs or people don't stress about broken cheap TV. If the cheap TV we bought breaks it's always better to throw it away and buy new one. This whole exercise is cheaper and in the end we get a better modern TV.

Where have you seen reports for this with dishwashers? if you pay 30k then a 5k fix isn't a big fraction.
I haven't seen many reports with dishwasher because these are very simple machines. There's not a lot that can break inside a dishwasher. The first thing that might go will be the water pumps. But from my experience, brands don't make components specific to dishwashers. They too use off the shelf parts.

Current dishwashers in the market are still evolving towards Indian type of vessels and cooking style. What we currently have are western types of dishwashers which are slightly modified to Indian style. I bet in 2025 the dishwasher from LG will cost 25k and it'll be a whole lot better at washing Indian utensils than current 50k machine.

I think buying a cheap machine for now and after a few years throwing exchanging it away for better suited model for Indian style is the best strategy for now.
 

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Skilled
That's the point of buying cheap things. You don't bother replacing defective part if you can't get it easily. Throw exchange the machine away and buy another.
What's the scrap value for these machines. 2k ? more? you then have a replacement cost, isn't it. 20-30k? ontop
See, there are many threads on this forum about people complaining their sony/lg/samsung tv stopped working and service center is asking bomb. How many threads do you see for MiTV? Mi sells more TVs than them and yet not many so many threads about them. Either Mi makes reliable TVs or people don't stress about broken cheap TV. If the cheap TV we bought breaks it's always better to throw it away and buy new one. This whole exercise is cheaper and in the end we get a better modern TV.
How representative are they of problems with the device ? we only hear from those that have problems. How big is the silent majority here? I'm familiar with the service centre saying to replace the motherboard of the TV for thousands when the fix was a simple Rs.50 capacitor. If you have a tv that conks out then that is definitely something to check for. Though my TV repair guy told me that does not always work out.
I haven't seen many reports with dishwasher because these are very simple machines. There's not a lot that can break inside a dishwasher. The first thing that might go will be the water pumps. But from my experience, brands don't make components specific to dishwashers. They too use off the shelf parts.
So the differentiating factor then is design and features. How well does the cheaper machine do the job? There will be little things to look for inside the machine when you compare brands. Some desirable and others less. I could see this with fridges and why I would go with one design over another.
Current dishwashers in the market are still evolving towards Indian type of vessels and cooking style. What we currently have are western types of dishwashers which are slightly modified to Indian style. I bet in 2025 the dishwasher from LG will cost 25k and it'll be a whole lot better at washing Indian utensils than current 50k machine.
Tell me what is different with Indian vessels. We use plates, we use pots. We use oil. If anything with predominantly veg the cleaning should be easier than with animal fats. A lot of stainless steel so that cleans well. Have to stop using aluminium utensils. Hard water is catered for with built-in salt water softeners. Detergent is expensive if you go branded because local does not do the job as well. These detergents have patents which will expire with time so the local stuff gets better.
I think buying a cheap machine for now and after a few years throwing exchanging it away for better suited model for Indian style is the best strategy for now.
This is becoming the norm for a lot of things. If it works out go for it. It will be a learning experience. Until they make dishwashers locally the price will be higher than fridges and washing machines.

The rule used to be, buy cheap, buy often. But we've seen established brands cut corners to remain competitive.

I'm not familiar with dishwashers so no strong opinions here :)
 
So the differentiating factor then is design and features. How well does the cheaper machine do the job? There will be little things to look for inside the machine when you compare brands. Some desirable and others less. I could see this with fridges and why I would go with one design over another.
This is why I asked this question. Samsung dishwasher costs 24k and LG costs twice as much. Same capacity, almost same features. Then why should one go with expensive brand like bosch or LG. This was my genuine question. I didn't mean to criticise one brand over the others. I wanted to know what I was missing.

I agree with your argument for fridge. There's a lot to differentiate between fridges. There are many things where I'll say go with reliable and trusted brand. For example cars. But all dishwashers look same to me.
 

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This is why I asked this question. Samsung dishwasher costs 24k and LG costs twice as much. Same capacity, almost same features. Then why should one go with expensive brand like bosch or LG. This was my genuine question. I didn't mean to criticise one brand over the others. I wanted to know what I was missing.
I think the Sammy is made locally while the other two are imported. If you see them in a shop, take a pick of the ratings label, could be on the back or inside which shows the serial number.

Post the model numbers maybe there are more differences.

I see people online recommend Bosch over LG. I don't know why. There seem to be more complaints about LG dishwashers than Bosch.
 

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Skilled
This is why I asked this question. Samsung dishwasher costs 24k and LG costs twice as much. Same capacity, almost same features. Then why should one go with expensive brand like bosch or LG. This was my genuine question. I didn't mean to criticise one brand over the others. I wanted to know what I was missing.
Should have linked this


Not too many guides to read


I haven't seen many reports with dishwasher because these are very simple machines. There's not a lot that can break inside a dishwasher. The first thing that might go will be the water pumps. But from my experience, brands don't make components specific to dishwashers. They too use off the shelf parts.
Believe it or not they cost as much to build as front loaders if not more and the complexity is hidden from view :)

best-buy-dishwashers.gif


Why pay more? see the graphic. design and longevity. But to appreciate that you need to understand it from the repair angle.
 
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Placed order for Midea 13 place at 19.7k - Bank discount. I ignored this brand from a long time because I used to confused this name with 'Mitashi' (it was a cheapo DVD player). I thought it was a cheap brand but today found it it's a giant a company. It has partnered with Carrier for India. It's the big manufacturer for many branded items you see around. No matter which brand oven you have got in your house, it's made by Midea. It's also true for the dishwashers upto some extent. Many brands like Samsung, Faber and others white label the Midea dishwashers. If the dishwasher was made in China then it's highly likely that it's a Midea product.

Initially considered some machines below 25k,

Samsung 13 place
+ Established brand and network,​
+ Finish looks good in the photo.​
- Shortest program is still 2:10 hr long.​
- Probably doesn't have auto resume after power loss.​
- Only 1 year warranty.​
- Rebranded Midea product.​
Hafele 12 place
+ Has shorter program than Samsung​
- No display. No way to know ETA.​
- 1 year warranty​
Midea 13 Place
+ Has 2 shorter programs​
+ Doesn't have many negative reviews (Barring the dumb people who don't know how to use the machine). It was probably the best seller on FK before it switched sides.​
+ Has on demand extra dry and soak programs. Also has one self cleaning program.​
+ 2 years warranty​
+/- Eco mode is like 3:45 hr long. It's only relevant for overnight washing. From the reviews it seems it can clean dried milk stains in the program.​
+ Has auto resume​
- Finish may not be as good as Samsung (from the photos)​
I considered the samsung from many months but today Midea changed my mind. After Midea I stopped searching as most other brands are rebranding Midea. Only brand I could confirm that doesn't rebrand Midea was LG because they make their machines in Korea.

I discovered all this Midea rebranding after I opened the manual of a Faber dishwasher. It happens to be the same very polished manual provided by Midea for its machines except logos were replaced to Faber. Next I looked the maker on the Samsung page and its Midea. Then I stopped looking further. It's a no brainer.
 

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Skilled
I discovered all this Midea rebranding after I opened the manual of a Faber dishwasher. It happens to be the same very polished manual provided by Midea for its machines except logos were replaced to Faber. Next I looked the maker on the Samsung page and its Midea. Then I stopped looking further. It's a no brainer
Nice. Now tell us how the performance is in terms of cleaning, drying and energy use according to the graphic I posted in the above post and you will know where Midea stands.

How to save on energy costs? use eco wash this guy says. That is no heating. Warra great idea :banghead:
 
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