Front loading or top loading washing machine?

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Skilled
Water isn't added during the soaking. One might say the water is too little for soaking but to solve that, it flips the clothes every few minutes during soaking.
It's using the same water as the wash cycle.

If it agitates the clothes then stopping the power isn't quite the same thing.

But then what is the difference with a longer wash cycle?

It would seem that soak is just extending the wash cycle by an extra half hour
 

blr_p

Skilled
You can definitely say that.
I find that once the wash load gets close to or crosses 3kg the time to complete is 3+ hours. The wash cycle alone extends to 2+ hours. This is probably why LG has no soak option. It's not needed.

Soak takes up no energy, bar heating the water to 40. Agitate takes energy but shifts the dirt and gets the job done faster.

Soaking if there are enzymes is only good for a half hour or so as the enzymes are exhausted after that point. So soaking will loosen any dirt but it still needs to be agitated to remove the dirt.

I don't think there is any difference between soaking for say 5 hours and half an hour.

More effective if necessary is to do more soak cycles with fresh detergent per cycle as required.
 

bhp91

Disciple
Those guys are there to sell you something. Either some contract or stuff that isn't required. Free installation means just that. The bare minimum necessary and that too not done well either. The guy who installed mine tried to sell me a water softener. Something you screw onto the inlet. Declined. The guy recommended Surf and I pointed out that LG recommends Ariel which he termed an 'Israeli' product. That one really cracked me up. I tried to point out to him that P&G was based in Cincinnati.

The only kind of softener that works is an ion exchange softener that you recharge with salt. Something else that could be useful is a sediment filter. As the inlet tends to get clogged with mud from the overhead tank otherwise. I periodically have to remove trees growing out of mine. A slowly clogging inlet, the filter mesh gets blocked then reduces water flow into the machine and causes detergent residue in the drawer. With proper water pressure and no constrictions, the detergent should dissolve cleanly with no residue remaining.

Descaler is necessary if water is hard or close to it. Surprised the descaler was fake though. These guys have access to the service centre. I'd be wary of anything on amazon that has the company logo. I've not found a simple way to test sulphamic acid so its any one's guess what goes into those fake descalers.

LG says not to put any clothes with a tub clean either. You won't get the best tub clean without some fabric and you do need a cleaner of some sort. The machine does not clean itself.
I brought a LG top load and the installation guy tried to sell the filter thingy and descaler. Both were made by LG themselves. I brought the inlet filter and for what it's worth, it has already trapped quite a bit of debris in two weeks.
 
I find that once the wash load gets close to or crosses 3kg the time to complete is 3+ hours. The wash cycle alone extends to 2+ hours. This is probably why LG has no soak option. It's not needed.

Soak takes up no energy, bar heating the water to 40. Agitate takes energy but shifts the dirt and gets the job done faster.

Soaking if there are enzymes is only good for a half hour or so as the enzymes are exhausted after that point. So soaking will loosen any dirt but it still needs to be agitated to remove the dirt.
Yeah, you can say that. The regular daily wash cycle takes only 1:06 for 2-3 kg load. So, adding soaking can help with Samsung.

I don't think there is any difference between soaking for say 5 hours and half an hour.
I wouldn't say that myself. I worked as a CTO at a failed startup which specialized in Industrial Cleaning (nothing to do with fabric though). I came to conclusion that time itself is an important factor in cleaning anything. One should consider it exactly like detergent, heating, brush, muscle power etc. More of one factor means applying less of others. If you apply more heating, then you could get away with less detergent. Time is like that. If you apply more time, then you may not need muscle power factor.

I found this to be true in every field. One can have best chicken, best spice, best tandoor but without applying sufficient time one can't make perfect tandoori chicken.

Few weeks ago I was drilling in the metal and had a billions of microscopic metal shavings. How to clean that? using magnet of course. Nothing else works. But how to clean the magnet itself. There's only one thing that can clean the magnet and it's time. I applied few days worth of time to magnet and found all metal was rusted away.

For clothes, if you soak them and apply 24 hours of time with some detergent, you'll find the time was so effective that it borderline bleaches the clothes.

More effective if necessary is to do more soak cycles with fresh detergent per cycle as required.
Can only do one and that works for now.
 

blr_p

Skilled
I brought a LG top load and the installation guy tried to sell the filter thingy and descaler. Both were made by LG themselves. I brought the inlet filter and for what it's worth, it has already trapped quite a bit of debris in two weeks.
What is the model# of the top load?
Yeah, you can say that. The regular daily wash cycle takes only 1:06 for 2-3 kg load. So, adding soaking can help with Samsung.
Daily wash known as Intensive 60 takes that long with the LG as well. The demo guy recommended I use it but at the time that intensive word made me anxious about whether it might wear the clothes more in the long run. So I opted for the Cottons cycle instead. Wash times for loads under 2kg take 1h30, 2.5kg shows an estimate of under two hours. Above 2.5kg it adds another hour so the estimated time to complete then becomes 2h55. So as the load increases so does the time leading me to think it might clean larger loads better.

The Daily wash is faster because it is more intensive regardless of the load. The longer wash is more gentle. Depends on the fabric you use. If it's thicker then daily is fine but many times I'm washing thinner cottons and think the slower wash is more gentle for the same cleaning quality.

The other reason to stick to the Cottons cycle is I think LG's famous '6 motion' only applies to the Cottons cycle. Cottons is generally the flagship cycle for any machine. Some years back someone was asking for details about it but the marketing literature only went so far. I then looked up the Indian patent office and found a 100pg document LG submitted to justify why they merited the patent in India for 6 motion.

I wouldn't say that myself. I worked as a CTO at a failed startup which specialized in Industrial Cleaning (nothing to do with fabric though). I came to conclusion that time itself is an important factor in cleaning anything. One should consider it exactly like detergent, heating, brush, muscle power etc. More of one factor means applying less of others. If you apply more heating, then you could get away with less detergent. Time is like that. If you apply more time, then you may not need muscle power factor.

I found this to be true in every field. One can have best chicken, best spice, best tandoor but without applying sufficient time one can't make perfect tandoori chicken.

Few weeks ago I was drilling in the metal and had a billions of microscopic metal shavings. How to clean that? using magnet of course. Nothing else works. But how to clean the magnet itself. There's only one thing that can clean the magnet and it's time. I applied few days worth of time to magnet and found all metal was rusted away.

For clothes, if you soak them and apply 24 hours of time with some detergent, you'll find the time was so effective that it borderline bleaches the clothes.
I'm just wondering without enzymes what else is there to clean the clothes? How does time help here?

With some cleaning agents, say hydrogen peroxide time is definitely a factor. More time is necessary and means a deeper clean.

With Vanish, the instructions say no longer than an hour with colours and no more than six hours with whites. Why would they limit it like that?

I've left soaks for a day with Vanish but the impression I got with Vanish is there was more of a whitening agent in there than actual oxygen bleaching which would have been completed many hours earlier.
 
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The Daily wash is faster because it is more intensive regardless of the load. The longer wash is more gentle.
I'll try cotton wash next time.

I'm just wondering without enzymes what else is there to clean the clothes? How does time help here?
I can't say for sure why it works but it does work. I have had incidents when I soaked the clothes and forgotten about them. Next day saw that the clothes got clean just be soaking. And not just that but the dark coloured clothes also lost some colour to light coloured clothes.
 

blr_p

Skilled
I'll try cotton wash next time.
Something else I forgot to mention is the Cottons cycle is designed to handle the weight rating of the machine. If you notice daily wash is 4kg or a little over half your machines rating and the 15-minute cycle is just 2kg or a quarter. People assume all cycles can handle a full load. Not true. But Cottons will.

You could argue your daily wash never touches 4kg so daily is good but I pointed out that cycle times vary from <2kg, 2.5kg and above. Why would that be the case for a machine that can handle 7kg on the cottons cycle? So these weight ratings to me should be seen as a proportion of the max load (by volume). A max load for me rarely crosses 3 kg but the machine is full with just a hands width clearance at the top.. With jeans it presumably would weigh more. Volume is the guide here not weight. In other words, I would interpret 4kg for daily wash as a half load by volume or a little over and no more.

samsung cycle overview.jpg

I can't say for sure why it works but it does work. I have had incidents when I soaked the clothes and forgotten about them. Next day saw that the clothes got clean just be soaking. And not just that but the dark coloured clothes also lost some colour to light coloured clothes.
Is it just the whitening though? Meaning if you wash it after does the colour return?
 
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blr_p

Skilled
Colour can neither be created nor be destroyed. It can only be transferred from dark coloured clothes to light coloured clothes. :p

So in short, no.
I meant optical brighteners. They reflect light of a different spectrum leading you to think the clothes are whiter than they actually are.

Blueing agent as it used to be done in the days past.
 
I meant optical brighteners. They reflect light of a different spectrum leading you to think the clothes are whiter than they actually are.

Blueing agent as it used to be done in the days past.
No not like that. Clothes just lose colour.

Bluing agents add blue tint to clothes which can make them look whiter to some people. That's different.
 

technofast

Huh?
Adept
Vanish is for cleaning. Descaling is removing hard water deposits. Descaling is not cleaning. You can use citric acid or the regular descalers which use sulphamic acid.

No, use powder because the cleaning ingredient we need for the job is percarbonate which if you look up the ingredients you can see only the powder has. They call it sodium carbonate peroxide.

The liquid does not contain percarbonate and will be useless for the purpose of washing machine cleaning.

Ideally, I recommend the Labogens Percarbonate which is pure. Vanish uses less than 50% of percarbonate maybe closer to 25%
IMG_20220804_104458.jpg
Bought the SPC and will check and update after cleaning the drum.
 

bhp91

Disciple
Can you measure the diameter of the tub and the height up to the gasket? how much is the volume of the tub
Diameter is about 44cm and depth is around 36cm (only counting the actual steel tub height).
Also, it is exactly the same as my old 7kg LG top load.
 

blr_p

Skilled
LG used to have this feature called WaveForce in their top loaders. Jets at the top spray water and it spins the clothes at the same time. Insane wash action.

This is as close as a top loader gets to compete with a front loader for cleaning.


LG top loaders with the term WaveForce seem to have disappeared of late.

Found a review from 2017 with this tech. He paid Rs.41k for this machine

Dimensions of the inner tub of this 11kg TL are: Diameter 48cm and Depth 40cm giving a volume of 73L

Dimensions of this 11kg are : 59cm wide, 60.5cm deep and 100cm tall
 
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bhp91

Disciple
Well, my machine does have something called Jet Spray+. Not sure if it is the same thing but there's a nozzle to spray water at the top. Haven't tried it out yet.

Screenshot_20220805-110455.png
 

blr_p

Skilled
Well, my machine does have something called Jet Spray+. Not sure if it is the same thing but there's a nozzle to spray water at the top. Haven't tried it out yet.

View attachment 141929
If you're going to do that how about a video? use a magnet where the lid closes so the machine will run with the lid open and we can see the tub and get an idea of the wash action.


That video is from 2015. The drum does not spin as fast as with WaveForce. It just wets the clothes from the top. Kind of like how cleaning your hands under a tap works.

Now that is just JetSpray. Yours has a plus. What more does that plus do?


Here we go, there are 3 different methods. Wave force, turbo drum AND Jetspray. They are not equivalent but do similar work.

The three get combined into Turbo 3D which top loaders are not available in India as yet :bored:

To make things more confusing there is a difference between turbowash whose machines we get and turbowash3D which we don't.
 
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Which brand would be good for a TL machine with 7-8 kg capacity? It would be used by persons who have difficulty with bending and are nearing 60's. Wanted to opt for a FL, but LG or others don't sell pedestal which would have increased the machine's height and hence reduce the bending.
 

blr_p

Skilled
Diameter is about 44cm and depth is around 36cm (only counting the actual steel tub height).
Also, it is exactly the same as my old 7kg LG top load.
That works out to around 55L inner tub volume.

Machine dimensions of 54cm wide, 56cm deep and 92.5 cm high for your 8kg model

The user manual is well written and worth reading.

scrud.jpg


Note how they say every 5th wash must be warm? How are you going to do that in a top loader with no heater eh :wideyed:

So you can have 'Scrud' :dead: or just make your life easier and not use fabric conditioner.



But this graphic is confusing
LG topload volumes.jpg


Your max dry load should not cross 30 L for a good wash. Ideally 25L and that corresponds to a water level of 2 (?) I was expecting it to be 5.

Keeping to 50% loading as a guideline.
Which brand would be good for a TL machine with 7-8 kg capacity? It would be used by persons who have difficulty with bending and are nearing 60's. Wanted to opt for a FL, but LG or others don't sell pedestal which would have increased the machine's height and hence reduce the bending.
Would you be able to install a solar water heater? getting 40-degree+ temperature water to wash and rinse with will improve wash quality in a top loader with no heating.

You can try making a stand for the FL yourself as described by @onlyravi here and see attached

The pedestals you see abroad come only for machines with a minimum width of 28 inches, cost in excess of $200 and require two people to install ie. they are pretty heavy.
 

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