Audio Help me become an audiophile

A

Anshul

Disciple
:)

Before I dump 50 grand on a headphones setup, I need to learn all the terms and do a lot of auditioning, so I'm going to need help with that. It will mostly be used when I'm in the front passenger seat of the car (45 min a day). I just want to buy decent gear and be done with it instead of upgrading all the time.
 
you will have to try different gear , to know what type of sound do you like! ( there is no way around it .

best for one person is not the best for other.

get something like brainwavz M2 and clip+ , spend some time with the combo.

then we talk.
 
^^ He said his budget was 50k not 5k. :D

@Anshul - No two ways about it. If you have a big budget do audition the stuff first before buying. :)
 
Location: Mumbai
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Perfect location! Head to Gautam's (Pristine Note!) den and begin your quest. :D

Some folks were lucky enough to audition his elite gear. I think Brendon himself was one of them.
 
@ Brendon - Yes, I have to audition the stuff but I'm guessing it's pointless if I do it with an untrained ear and dont know the technical stuff yet.
 
^^ Go with your ear and not don't bother with technical stuff. :)

One of my favorite earphones (RE1) is something esantosh hates and while its technically not a great earphone I still like it better than many other more expensive and supposedly technically better earphones.

What is important is that for IEMs you need to get a good seal in order to properly audition them.

If the seal is shallow the IEMs may sound down right bad.
 
Are you looking to spend 50k on a pair of IEMs or portable headphones ? I guess full sized high-end headphones are out of question as they require a very good source and a beefy amp to shine which ofcourse you wouldn't want to setup in a car :p

Do specify what type of gear are you looking at ? What would be the source for playback ? What music genres do you listen to ?

Any particular sound signature you prefer ? Like heavy bass oriented or the very neutral / balanced types ? then there's are one's with warm and coloured midrange or dark sounding / laid back ones .

All this should help you point it out at few products which you could finally audition and decide.

Ohh and yeah if it was me who had 50k to spend on a portable audiophile setup which would last a lifetime , it would most probably be a pair of customs or something like this Limited, wooden portable ATH-ESW10JPN arrives! (with pics) .
 
to be an audiophile on a budget is the worse curse one can endure..

since you are not really constrained.. you can really choose and pick your gear..

My recommendation would be get at least one closed back headphone and one great pair of IEM's.. as you plan to use them outdoors (in a car).

Also, invest in a good portable amp.
 
^^ Look Sire, you are approaching your query a round about manner, a person whoever they are needs to invest a considerable chunk of time in their hobby to start devoloping a sense of expertise / bearing of what they expect to gain from the hobby.

This is an example -- I am 20 year old guy, who isn't bothered about cars but follow the aircraft industry ardently due to the fact that I've had so much more exposure to combat aircraft and helicopters as my father is in the defence that I started aquiring knowledge on the matter [aircraft, military history and tactics] when I was just 6 years old, I still like to learn more on this topic .

This affects my world view and how I relate certain topics as well as how I present myself in public. My advent into computers started in 2002 but my serious forays to gain knowledge on the same was not before 2006, when I killed my Pentium 4 based system, after playing too much of Age Of Mythology / Half Life [4-7 hrs in a day] on it and it burst ~14 capacitors on the motherboard due to overheating. And I joined this forum in 2010 [as you can see] and these fellows [proud Indians... TEians] have helped me learn a lot more on this subject as well.

I'm not an audiophile far from it [my experience is of a SoundMAGIC PL-30 / PL-21], but on a recent trip to Bombay I was able to hear a few gems in Faheem Sir's collection and I liked the Brainwavz M3 over the Logitech Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10. So that is my personal choice.

So as everyone has already said audition equipment, trust your gut and choose according to personal taste. I hope I didn't bored you, Sire(s). Cheers!
 
Bookmarked this thread, it should get interesting real soon! Like Faheem said.....more details on your preferences would help immensely.
 
FaH33m said:
Are you looking to spend 50k on a pair of IEMs or portable headphones ? I guess full sized high-end headphones are out of question as they require a very good source and a beefy amp to shine which ofcourse you wouldn't want to setup in a car :p

Do specify what type of gear are you looking at ? What would be the source for playback ? What music genres do you listen to ?

Any particular sound signature you prefer ? Like heavy bass oriented or the very neutral / balanced types ? then there's are one's with warm and coloured midrange or dark sounding / laid back ones .

All this should help you point it out at few products which you could finally audition and decide.

Ohh and yeah if it was me who had 50k to spend on a portable audiophile setup which would last a lifetime , it would most probably be a pair of customs or something like this Limited, wooden portable ATH-ESW10JPN arrives! (with pics) .
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Source - 3GS. I think I'd love just sitting back and listening to orchestral music and a little bit of 90's music in between.

And about the signature..... I have no idea what you're talking about :huh:

The setup doesn't need to be "portable". It just needs to fit in the car and not in my pocket.

-

And to the people telling me to trust my gut - Are you sure my gut/opinion wont change after a few months with the new headphones ?
 
Remember that spending more money on audio gear does not guarantee more/better SQ. After a certain amount, the amount spent to SQ graph starts to increase in an exponential manner. The law of diminishing returns applies very well to audio gear so always trust yourself/your ears more than any review etc.. Do not think that if you have a 10k IEM right now, a 20k IEM would satisfy you more. You may very well be satisfied by a 5k IEM, as audio is very relative and varies from person to person.

50 grand is a huge amount, get yourself something comparatively cheaper first. You might be surprised to observe that there isnt really much of a difference between say a 6-7k IEM to a 14-15k or maybe you might like something cheaper better for you.
 
Oh! No! Don't become an audiophile...ever!

I was in a similar position nearly 19 months ago - that's when I joined TE. I was curious about the whole thing - the vocabulary, how the hell do these fellows live with something inside the ear :huh:, why the hell should I spend anything more than 500 for an ear phone :S. And then you go towards an endless spiral of upgrades, more money for meaningless 5% increase in SQ, worry too much and lose that initial excitement. If I saved the amount I spent for accessories (tips, cases, cables etc.,), I'd have had a custom by now.

Untrained ears? Yes! But go out there, audition stuff and pick something which is not more than 1/10th your budget right now. Pick a good, decent source (Clip+, iPod Touch 4G, Cowon C2, Fuze+) again under 10K - cheaper the better. Live with both of them for a while, read a lot, try to go to a meet and listen a lot. This whole bloody vocabulary thing comes not from listening to music, but analyzing signatures via A/B. The more you try different signatures (and the more you read about what you've heard and correlate descriptions), the better you know about 'stuff'.

You need to decide - Do you want to have fun (which can be achieved at a lower budget)? Or do you want to know how they come up with superfluous, flowery language to make it seem that a 5% overall difference is like running around the earth a couple of times? IEMs don't get much lift in SQ after $80-100. There are plenty of great sounding IEMs at $150, which can go head-to-head against IEMs twice their price. The IEM at $300 would sound 'better' for sure, but they are not major differences, but minor differences that matter to someone who appreciates it. Oh! Don't worry! Once you get half way there to "audiophile" status, all you'll worry about is that last 5-10%. It wouldn't be out of place, it would seem natural and you won't mind spending $200 for that little difference because someone in your peer group spent $400 for the same thing - you are still better and understand the "value for money". So, your choice! :D
 
^ That's the real truth . Well said esanthosh . What started of as fun to me ended in a mad chase for something better until I realized for good and stopped with the upgrade / reviews to bring back those glory days of just enjoying pure music ! :D If one has the moolah and the passion to chase it, its one of the best ways to spend your savings , otherwise one should try and stay away from the audiophile hoopla ! Its over rated, IMO ;).
 
If you're willing to start small, from what I remember of them the RE-0 might be a nice starting point for orchestral music. Some of Audeo's offerings might be suitable, Santhosh is probably the guy to ask since he has them. The RE-0 + a good amp sound lovely, its a pity mine stopped functioning....... I've sworn off head direct stuff now :)
 
esanthosh said:
You need to decide - Do you want to have fun (which can be achieved at a lower budget)? Or do you want to know how they come up with superfluous, flowery language to make it seem that a 5% overall difference is like running around the earth a couple of times?
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I want to be blown away by the sound. If I settle for something much cheaper in the start, I'm going to dump it just like I did with cheaper computer parts, mobile phones, cameras etc :ashamed:
 
Equating cheap computer parts to cheap IEMs is a stretch. I move between the so called "top-tier" IEMs, the "near top-tier" sound and the "mid-fi" sound and even sometimes to the budget-fi sound all the time. I've heard over 50 IEMs now. Based on that experience, I find that the "near top-tier" category hits the sweet spot in terms of value for money and Sound quality.

Well! From a purely subjective point of you, that "blown away" part does not happen until you cross the $100 mark. I am not saying that you need to get educated, slowly move up the chain until you get to the top like I did. I did it because, I have a similar line of thinking as Joker (borrowed from his 188 IEM comparison thread - Unique Melody Miracle review)

It can be argued that I would have been better off going straight for a top-tier custom instead of spending time – and money – exploring the 200-something universal monitors I’ve had my hands on over the years. However, I feel that moving up the hierarchy as slowly as I’ve done has allowed me to appreciate the Miracle that much more - there is simply no substitute for experience when it comes to putting things in perspective.
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On the flip side, there are plenty who moved from a couple of universals directly to customs and that's a very sane thing as far as your wallet and storage space are concerned.

Why do we want you to start a little lower? Because sound, unlike speed of the PC and mobile phones, is very subjective. There are no measurements. To tell you the truth, there are measurements, but they hardly need to equate to what you are enjoying. Emotion is not the same as deriving use out of a mechanical / electronic device.

When you move to the top-tier, all IEMs are almost equal. The difference is that some of them do certain things better than others. Considering that we don't have a Mingo to audition stuff, we need to go by word of mouth and all those reviews. Unless you find your taste, know exactly what you want, you would be doing the same "dumping" even in the top-tier department.

You do realize that you are better off than me in this department? I have no way to audition stuff, so I end up buying everything that interests me. But, you are in Mumbai and can audition stuff at PristineNote, meet up with Faheem & Brendon and get to know many different signatures better. When you start lower, in the 3-5K range (I am not suggesting anything lower), you would have a fair idea of what you want. In audio, as in most other parts of life, it's about knowing what you want to the "T" that gets things done with minimum of hassles and lesser money and energy spent. If you jump straight into top-tier and you don't like what you hear after 3 months, what are you going to do? PC and mobiles have a larger crowd following, audio doesn't. We don't have that many who are willing to spend huge amounts on audio and those who do already have what they need in most cases. It's not a bad thing to start around that range, learn more by listening, setting your preferences and target right and aim for a better piece of equipment. Don't think of it as "lowering down" of your standards, rather a way to get crash course for cheap. You won't regret it!
 
On one hand you're saying the difference between the more expensive iem's is 5%, and then you go on to say I might not like the way a certain expensive iem sounds at all :huh: If the difference was so small why would I dump it for another one ?
 
And.. to clarify, I said the audiophiles are in constant seek of the last 5% and spend big bucks. The difference in SQ, being subjective cannot be expressed in % terms. I could say that my favorite IEMs are 20% better than some of the rivals, but that's just that - another useless figure.

It's called preference. Not everything sounds exactly the same. There are various things that make a sound signature. Some IEMs do some parts really well and tend to be average or not so great in other areas. So, in terms of overall sound (combination of all the factors), they are more equals. But, each of them is unique too. Secondly, we all have unique preferences. We give more priority / importance to certain things over others. You can't simply throw money and buy the best. You have to know which factors are important to you. It's not as simple as it seems. Let me list a few important factors that go into making of an IEM's sound



  • Bass - Tightness, decay / speed, thickness, texture, extension, sub-bass quantity, mid-bass quantity, bass bleed
  • Mid range - forwardness / recession, thickness of note, decay, lower mid range emphasis, upper mid range emphasis, texture / body, articulation, sweetness, warmth
  • Treble - Extension, Sparkle, Lower treble emphasis, crispness of note, speed, forwardness / recession
  • Overall - Dynamic range, detail, timbre (or realistic portrayal of instruments), balance / emphasis of the three ranges with respect to each other, sound stage (width, depth, height), distance cues, effortlessness, imaging and placement, transparency, resolution, clarity
  • Technical factors - Driver type, Impedance and Sensitivity, Efficiency with respect to low volume listening
  • External factors - Isolation, comfort, build quality, design of the housing, cable noise or microphonics, Accessories and of course, Price

An IEM is usually more than the sum of it's parts. So, yes! On one hand the more expensive IEMs are about deriving the last mile of performance. And yes! On an overall basis, the pros and cons cancel out each other. But, you and you alone can decide which parameters are more important to you. Hope I am clear.
 
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