India's regional foreign policy needs a massive shift


Digigear

Member
Disciple
The recent string of events at the LAC involving China is quite alarming and I feel like a lot of Indians are waking up to how aggressive China is and I believe there is more waking up that needs to happen. The Chinese think in a very different way and they have a very different way of life. For them laws don't mean much and they get what they want purely through brute force and muscle power. And up until now a lot of their victims are smaller nations who can't really stand up to them and protect their interests by standing up to their firepower. India is an exception to this. We have the firepower and military means to stand ground, although the numbers may not be in our favour and they may have greater edge in terms of technology and sheer tenacity to break rules and be brutal without regard for agreements or protocols.

I don't think that we are going to be able to hold on to our sovereignty and territorial integrity just by being on the defensive and just defending our borders and doing so purely with military defences. It is necessary and we can hold our ground for a while. But really, as a long term solution, we have to be more proactive in the region and take the route of a combination of diplomacy and military intervention rather than a purely military intervention. We have to assume a stronger role in the region.

We are not the only victims of Chinese expansionist aggression in the region. Taiwan, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Bhutan, Nepal, Tibet, Vietnam and plenty more are victims as well. But we are the only power in the region that has the size and values to stand against China and make it step back. But we can neither do it by ourselves, nor do we need to.

Here's a list of things that I believe we need to do:-

  1. Gather a coalition of nations against Chinese aggression. Let's form a strong body that involves nations that are the direct victim of Chinese expansionist aggression and also those nations who stand against this approach by China. We have to take advantage of the fact that China has a great number of enemies.
  2. Put a strict end to all bilateral ties with China until China honours a list of our requests (step back from occupying our territories, refrain from making claims on Arunachal Pradesh etc)
  3. Once we make them understand our list of demands, do not entertain ANY ties with them, be it trade or otherwise. We need to show them that we see this as really important.
  4. We also must not sign any more treaties or agreements with them unless they begin to honour the agreements that we have signed so far. They seem to care nothing for the agreements they sign.
  5. We need to isolate China both in terms of trade and also militarily. We need to work together with the military of our allies within this new coalition so that we stay strong as a coalition and thwart any moves from China.
  6. We have to do everything necessary to show China that it's dreams of being a superpower cannot happen through military aggression, but it may happen through smart diplomacy and through trust. I do believe that it would do us good to have China as a partner and as a strong counter to US. But not while China is unreliable and does not recognise the rule of law.
  7. Our policy on Tibet has to change. It's a shame that we still go by our agreement with China and honour its interest in fighting against any activist movement within our country that rallies for a free Tibet. It's shameful enough that we signed such an agreement and we enforce it within our borders when China has no regards for our interests. We must actively and officially rally for a free Tibet and regain access to tourist places in Tibet that are of interest to Indian citizens without the Chinese getting in the way. We have to free Tibet and also actively support the freeing of Hong Kong.
Bottom line is that India cannot be a defensive sitting duck that cares only about its own borders. We have to rise up as a strong regional power that other smaller nations find as a shield against unfair treatment from China or anyone else. We have the power to play this role, but we have to assume it. No one is going to hand it to us. We have to proactively lead and assume the larger responsibilities to govern in the interest of everyone.

I would like to hear others' thoughts on this.
 

Renegade

The Outlaw
Super Mod
I am surprised this thread does not have a single reply.

We are not the only victims of Chinese expansionist aggression in the region. Taiwan, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Bhutan, Nepal, Tibet, Vietnam and plenty more are victims as well. But we are the only power in the region that has the size and values to stand against China and make it step back. But we can neither do it by ourselves, nor do we need to.
China has immense monetary power which the whole world has handed over to them. Not only that, all the technology has been handed over over to them on a platter in the name of saving manufacturing costs. They have managed to reverse engineer, steal and improve on the those technologies over time. It has not happened overnight and it will not be easy to take that away now. The rest of the world is playing catch up now. India has neither the money, the technology nor the structure to start competing. The victims of the Chinese aggression also keep running back to China for further monetary help coz they have no other choice.

Personally I see no other option than to gradually decreases worlds dependence on China and build up competing structures in various fields. It will take a long time. Till then all countries have to hold their hands together and bide time so that they can steal the cheese back from under the cat.
 

Julian

om nom nom
Veteran


One of the smartest political entities in the world at the moment. Forget our country, most of the great western superpowers are simpletons in comparison.

Beating them is no small task and certainly not achievable by our present (or past) government.
 

akash01

Member
Disciple
china is using its debt trap policy to make nations take decision in their favor . India has to counter their this policy but we have limited resources and we use them wisely to help our favoring countries to not fall in their debt trap. India has started taking decision in this regard as we have given a 400 mn line credit to Maldives .
 

red dragon

Justiceforall
Veteran
Does India have a single friendly neighboring country anymore?
Please don't take it as an insult to India. I'm a complete outsider, and from our newspapers in EU, it looks like India is under attack from every border.
I live in a very small, landlocked county and completely dependent on our bigger and much powerful neighboring nations. But our borders are mostly peaceful. Nobody takes us seriously anyway. But we are progressing at a slow but steady pace.
 

Digigear

Member
Disciple
Does India have a single friendly neighboring country anymore?
Please don't take it as an insult to India. I'm a complete outsider, and from our newspapers in EU, it looks like India is under attack from every border.
I live in a very small, landlocked county and completely dependent on our bigger and much powerful neighboring nations. But our borders are mostly peaceful. Nobody takes us seriously anyway. But we are progressing at a slow but steady pace.
I don't know what you're hearing. But we have two troublesome neighbors - Pakistan and China. Pakistan is a weak state. It uses its proxies to shift the status quo in Kashmir. They want to take over Kashmir. So that's there. The other neighbor is China which is not a weak state but they have huge territorial ambitions and they want to be the bully and get every other nation to submit to their status. India is the other major player in the region and we are the only ones who can give them a good fight. The other nations facing this bully behavior from China are much smaller nations and they can't do much. But other than these two, we share other neighbors who are too small to stand up against us even if they wanted to. But there's no reason for them to go against us because we're mostly a friendly neighbor to all of our other neighboring countries and there are no disputes save for the one with Pakistan and China. Hope that sheds some light.
 

red dragon

Justiceforall
Veteran
Thanks for explaining. But why this new tone of comparison with neighbors?
I spent 35 years in India, tension between India/ Pakistan, India/ China were always there. But why this tone about smaller neighborhood countries? Why would they stand up against India all of a sudden?
We Czechs do make fun of Slovaks at times, but we are very friendly. Germany, Poland etc. are much bigger and powerful than us, we are completely dependent upon them..but we live in perfect peace most of the time and freely travel from one country to another. There are people who work in Austria and travel from a different country everyday!! ( Due to insane cost of living in Vienna)
 

Digigear

Member
Disciple
Thanks for explaining. But why this new tone of comparison with neighbors?
I spent 35 years in India, tension between India/ Pakistan, India/ China were always there. But why this tone about smaller neighborhood countries? Why would they stand up against India all of a sudden?
We Czechs do make fun of Slovaks at times, but we are very friendly. Germany, Poland etc. are much bigger and powerful than us, we are completely dependent upon them..but we live in perfect peace most of the time and freely travel from one country to another. There are people who work in Austria and travel from a different country everyday!! ( Due to insane cost of living in Vienna)
Like I said in my previous reply, the smaller neighbors don't stand up against us nor do they have enmity with us. It's as it has been. I don't understand what gives you the impression that the smaller neighbors are turning against us. It's still China and Pakistan alone. We don't have disputes with anyone else.
 

Digigear

Member
Disciple
This guy usually talks sense.
The effective summary of what the guy's saying is that we as a nation need to invest in a strategic vision that creates a friendly neighborhood and while I don't disagree with that, he does take up instances of each of the small neighboring nations being not as friendly as earlier, to insist that there's a pattern of rising tensions. Makes for an interesting speculation for a YouTube story. It's clearly an extrapolation to suggest a narrative of a collective failure in regional foreign policy. It's arguable. But IMO it's more hyperbole and more speculative than an actual real trend. Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka are not nations that are real interested in going on the offensive against India. The instances he's referring to of nations going against India's strategic interest is more a result of China's arm-wringing than out of their own will. The case with Nepal being the most severe. And btw the story of Nepal issuing controversial maps is moot now since that video was made. Nepal has since recalled publications of those maps and has admitted that they were due to some errors. It's clear that Nepal is in bed with China and got ahead of itself. But as Pakistan and Nepal and others who are siding with China and acting on Chinese interests will sooner or later learn, China is not like India and it has no interest in respecting the sovereign interests of smaller nations like India does. I don't see these shifts in tone of our more neutral neighbors as sustainable. Of course it could very well end up to be a more sustainable trend if India fails to consolidate our strategic vision for the region and to thwart Chinese attempts to make life hard for us. It's too soon to tell. Anything can happen.

But the issue is a lot more sophisticated than it can seem from a distance - that is of "all our neighbors are turning against us because we went bad". Sure Nepal and Bangladesh may not see eye to eye with India on a few issues, but that doesn't justify an overblown narrative of hostility on all sides. We still have only 2 enemies - China and Pakistan. China, because they see themselves as the only power and see anyone who doesn't surrender to them as a threat. And Pakistan because they are a dysfunctional state driven by religious ambition and desire for Kashmir. The others could either be instrumental in a stronger regional coop with India or not so much and that will depend on how we handle our regional policy in the near future. And that remains to be seen.
 

red dragon

Justiceforall
Veteran
Thanks a lot for your very well written elaborate response.
It is really difficult to understand the present situation from outside.
Everything is either completely pro or anti BJP in YouTube ( personally I don't like their leadership at all, but that's individual bias and not the truth)
Our newspapers rarely publish anything about India. Most of the Indian TV channels we could easily watch online don't work anymore without VPN etc.
 

Digigear

Member
Disciple
China keeps expanding but is smart about how. It's always bit by bit to make it seem like fighting back isn't worth the effort.
I hate admitting it, but I think we can learn a thing or two from the Chinese approach to enforcement of their vision. Our values definitely don't align and I admire our values more than anything, but our approach and process leaves a lot to be desired. India lacks a coherent vision that is well communicated both within and outside, and its ability to enforce that vision is still inconsistent and the overall integrity of the structure of our foreign policy machinery leaves a lot to be desired. We're still like an old clerk trying to look good to the masters rather than a leader who attracts the love and admiration of smaller nations. We have the basis to assume the role of a regional leader but we fail to see ourselves as that and make moves in the region assuming that role. China is way ahead of us in this regard among other areas.
 

red dragon

Justiceforall
Veteran
Somebody posted here an amazing article on how Bajaj ( possibly) destroyed the attempted Chinese domination in 2 wheeler market in India and Africa.
It was a true eye opener of what India is capable of, when it can look beyond petty personal benefits and the religion crap and do the real work without looking for easy excuses.
 

chiron

Well-Known Member
Veteran
You are lucky like me to have gotten out of India when you did. All the stoic sanghis will also try for citizenship in usa/aus/nz/canada.
 

6pack

Well-Known Member
ex-Mod
We can discuss all we want for eternity but if the politicians we elect don't have two neurons in their brain to think such stuff, no change will happen. 50+ years down the line, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Bhutan etc will all be wealthier than India and will be treating India like we don't exist. Unfortunately all our policies are short sighted and lack on all levels.
 

adder

Well-Known Member
Veteran
What US elections have shown is the power of media, social media companies all working in sync by censoring anything bad about Biden and opening the flood gates on Trump.
Republicans claim of some serious voting fraud, Republicans have been saying about this from months.There is evidence of Dead people, mentally ill, really old people who have voted without their consent.
Software errors wink wink that cause votes to favor biden.

The Dominion voting system which sells the software and hardware for election machines has ties to the clinton foundation and Nancy Polisi long time aid was also hired by the company last year. So its not without merit the allegations of voting fraud with dominion have 1/3 the market share.

Some intresting survey data of around 1lakh shows that people who voted for Biden are liberals, left leaning, extreme left, LGBT, Atheists, Blacks, Muslims, even jews, south americans People aged below 29.
People who voted for trump are moderate, conservative, Vetarans, military, christians of all types cathlic/protestants,orthodox etc, Cubans, people aged above 35.
Gun ownsers voted very slightly more to Trump.

Last election hillary lost because of Bernie supporters
 

Julian

om nom nom
Veteran
The Dominion voting system which sells the software and hardware for election machines has ties to the clinton foundation and Nancy Polisi long time aid was also hired by the company last year. So its not without merit the allegations of voting fraud with dominion have 1/3 the market share.
How come trump won then instead of hillary?

Right-wing supporters... :angelic:
 

chiron

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Biden is just a more polite version of Trump. He is probably going to bomb more 3rd world places like Obama.
 

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