Market Section - Product Pricing n Discussions [NO Price checks]

ibose said:
Why do I need to create a thread ? I will just PM and buy it from the guy. As long as both parties are not expecting to exchange feedback and understand the risks of doing the deal without a thread, there should not be an issue. I may know and trust the guy from a past transaction.
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That is what can always happen. No one can stop people from making deals over PM or even Whatsapp. But if someone wants a publicly documented thread for extra safety, then I don't see any issue with letting that happen.
I think you haven't understood the point being discussed over here and have taken a different track. The issue is differentiating between feedback farming and a genuine deal happening via PM and hence, whether threads for such already agreed deals to be allowed in the MP. Currently, it is not allowed, and I think it can be decided on a case-to-case basis but in the end it is upto the admins and mods to decide which approach is better.
 
rdst_1 said:
That is what can always happen. No one can stop people from making deals over PM or even Whatsapp. But if someone wants a publicly documented thread for extra safety, then I don't see any issue with letting that happen.
I think you haven't understood the point being discussed over here and have taken a different track. The issue is differentiating between feedback farming and a genuine deal happening via PM and hence, whether threads for such already agreed deals to be allowed in the MP. Currently, it is not allowed, and I think it can be decided on a case-to-case basis but in the end it is upto the admins and mods to decide which approach is better.
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I understand the difference. I clearly mentioned the scenario was a genuine sale where the buyer and seller are not concerned about feedback but simply the transaction. The buyer and seller know and trust one another. I understand the issue of farming feedback and have pointed out such deals in the past. The only way you can possibly identify such cases is there is little or no time between thread creation and the sale. But if the deal gets done only via PMs basis what one posted as a response to a WTB, how can those be even identified ?
 
ibose said:
I understand the difference. I clearly mentioned the scenario was a genuine sale where the buyer and seller are not concerned about feedback but simply the transaction. The buyer and seller know and trust one another. I understand the issue of farming feedback and have pointed out such deals in the past. The only way you can possibly identify such cases is there is little or no time between thread creation and the sale. But if the deal gets done only via PMs basis what one posted as a response to a WTB, how can those be even identified ?
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Again, you seem to be confused. I am saying let even people who have agreed to a deal via PM (WTB thread or not), should be allowed to form a thread just for public documentation in the FS section.
Let's say someone said in the 'Audiophile and Gears' thread that they might be considering selling one of their gear. Now, if I, or someone else, were to PM them and we were to agree to a deal, then even then, we should be allowed to form a thread and exchange feedback. There is very little difference in such a deal and a deal made through the FS section of the marketplace.
 
rdst_1 said:
Again, you seem to be confused. I am saying let even people who have agreed to a deal via PM (WTB thread or not), should be allowed to form a thread just for public documentation in the FS section.
Let's say someone said in the 'Audiophile and Gears' thread that they might be considering selling one of their gear. Now, if I, or someone else, were to PM them and we were to agree to a deal, then even then, we should be allowed to form a thread and exchange feedback. There is very little difference in such a deal and a deal made through the FS section of the marketplace.
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I understand what you are saying. I was responding with a genuine situation in response to the A,B and C query where the parties are more interested in the transaction rather than feedback. Anyways, if its allowed what you say, how will one differentiate a genuine sale thread from those which are intended to farm feedback ? Besides even if that is allowed, I don't think it should be in the FS section but maybe a sub. You would not want to browse through a series of sale posts which have been posted after the sale is concluded.
 
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ibose said:
I understand what you are saying. I was responding with a genuine situation in response to the A,B and C query where the parties are more interested in the transaction rather than feedback. Anyways, if its allowed what you say, how will one differentiate a genuine sale thread from those which are intended to farm feedback ? Besides even if that is allowed, I don't think it should be in the FS section but maybe a sub. You would not want to browse through a series of sale posts which have been posted after the sale is concluded.
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It is still a genuine sale thread. How is it any different from a thread where someone makes a deal within 5 minutes of opening of a thread. The purpose of the thread is to have proper public documentation. And such threads will be a very small minority so doesn't make sense to have a separate group for it. Back in the day, many times people, both here and Erodov used to ask for eBay listings after making the deal here. That was just to make the transaction more secure. Similarly, a thread opened for such a deal is to document the transaction in public domain as I have been saying in all my posts. And exchanging feedback for such a deal is also perfectly fine, IMO.

Didn't even know farming feedback was a thing and frankly speaking no one was ever worried about it happening in the last 10 years I have been here, so don't know what's changed suddenly. I just like the simple ways things have been working for so long, so don' t want unnecessary complications to be added.
 
rdst_1 said:
How is it any different from a thread where someone makes a deal within 5 minutes of opening of a thread. The purpose of the thread is to have proper public documentation. And such threads will be a very small minority so doesn't make sense to have a separate group for it.
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Well it would be just the sale thread as the deal is already done and any conversations would be just between the buyer and seller. I don't know if they will be few or many (newbies not yet eligible to post in FS can use this route) and I don't see why those cannot go into its own group instead of polluting the FS section which is frequented by the majority. It would still be available in public and you get to exchange feedback. I would not even look at those except perhaps for pricing information if its still there.
rdst_1 said:
Didn't even know farming feedback was a thing and frankly speaking no one was ever worried about it happening in the last 10 years I have been here, so don't know what's changed suddenly. I just like the simple ways things have been working for so long, so don' t want unnecessary complications to be added.
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So I find something I really need in FS and ask the seller about the item only to learn its been sold to someone before the sale thread was posted or even open the thread to find its was already sold. How does that work ? How is it fair to a genuine buyer ?
 
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ibose said:
So I find something I really need in FS and ask the seller about the item only to learn its been sold to someone before the sale thread was posted or even open the thread to find its was already sold. How does that work ? How is it fair to a genuine buyer ?
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It's the same as any other thread to which you were late to. There are plenty of such threads even now in the MP where deals have been agreed upon and you have to browse through the whole thread to find that the item is either sold or on hold for someone. So how is a thread in which the same thing is said in the first post any different. Just move on like you would for any other thread. And why are you only a genuine buyer and not the person who is buying that item through an already agreed upon deal. How is he not 'genuine'.
 
rdst_1 said:
It's the same as any other thread to which you were late to. There are plenty of such threads even now in the MP where deals have been agreed upon and you have to browse through the whole thread to find that the item is either sold or on hold for someone. So how is a thread in which the same thing is said in the first post any different. Just move on like you would for any other thread. And why are you only a genuine buyer and not the person who is buying that item through an already agreed upon deal. How is he not 'genuine
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So you want to put up a FS thread for an item which has already been sold ?
As for one where the item got sold after it was posted, well, you were just late but at least you had a fair chance to buy it.
Anyways I am done stating my view and, although we can discuss all we want but this rests with the mods.
 
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iPwnz said:
I'm a little late to reply to this but I wanted to say that the market section should be temporarily restricted for the seller here

FS: Video Card - Exchange RTX 3070 FE and Gigabyte 1660 Super OC with RTX 3080 (non-lhr) used/new (any brand with warranty)

I'm looking to exchange my RTX 3070 FE and Gigabyte 1660 Super with RTX 3080 (non-lhr) Used/new but in warranty. If anyone have a 3080 (non-lhr) and willing to exchange please let me know. Reason for exchange: Less clutter in case/ better FPS ;) Both cards are in good condition and have more...
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Even more so because he's not a new member. He's already had 9 deals done. The deal changed from trade to sale with no price given and look at this arrogance when questioned about it.
But the thread has been locked so...
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I just found that you posted this here for discussion, wow. C'mon man, a very well known and active member like you could've simply pointed me to the rule instead of complaining about my "arrogance" here.
I accept that I didn't know and violated the rule in that thread, and I didn't do it on purpose. Situation was like, I got an offer who wanted just one of my card plus cash (which I didn't have) and then a buyer offered me to buy one of my other card and I sold it (I did put everything in that thread except for the price it was sold for). If I knew that it's mandatory to put the price I would've done it. Just look how you wrote it:
"How did you sell something without giving a price? FYI I'm not trying to start a controversy or drama here"
You said you were not trying to start drama which you literally did.
 
nitin_g3 said:
I just found that you posted this here for discussion, wow. C'mon man, a very well known and active member like you could've simply pointed me to the rule instead of complaining about my "arrogance" here.
I accept that I didn't know and violated the rule in that thread, and I didn't do it on purpose. Situation was like, I got an offer who wanted just one of my card plus cash (which I didn't have) and then a buyer offered me to buy one of my other card and I sold it (I did put everything in that thread except for the price it was sold for). If I knew that it's mandatory to put the price I would've done it. Just look how you wrote it:
"How did you sell something without giving a price? FYI I'm not trying to start a controversy or drama here"
You said you were not trying to start drama which you literally did.
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Dude, this thread is just for drama. That's why mods created it separately. We were fine until last year and suddenly people have trouble with so many things in the MP, most of which are unnecessary. It's the same as that GPU rant/meme thread. Just people ranting because the world seems unfair to them.
 
rdst_1 said:
It's the same as any other thread to which you were late to. There are plenty of such threads even now in the MP where deals have been agreed upon and you have to browse through the whole thread to find that the item is either sold or on hold for someone. So how is a thread in which the same thing is said in the first post any different. Just move on like you would for any other thread. And why are you only a genuine buyer and not the person who is buying that item through an already agreed upon deal. How is he not 'genuine'.
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I get your point about allowing a thread for documentation (and feedback?) for a deal that happened over PM. But this should not be in the same category as FS because it is not. It has already been sold. All those subscribed don't have to get notified about a sale thread where the item isn't actually for sale to others. It's just between the 2 parties for documentation, so these threads should have a different tag or be in a different subforum. But if the deal fails after creation of such a thread, it's different.
This is what ibose was getting at. It is a genuine sale but not an open sale thread.
As of now I don't see anyone mentioning anything in the first post like you suggested. They wouldn't since it's not allowed to create a thread if a deal happened over PM. I don't know how the mods track such cases. This happened with sanjeev's GPU thread but only because he was open about it I think.

I don't know how they manage the wtb section too, always had that doubt. They are strict with FS but ninja deals/pm deals can always happen in WTB threads. Especially since it's open to new members too, anyone can sell/scam the OP there and it won't really be documented if the WTB's OP isn't particular on it?
 
roofrider said:
I get your point about allowing a thread for documentation (and feedback?) for a deal that happened over PM. But this should not be in the same category as FS because it is not. It has already been sold. All those subscribed don't have to get notified about a sale thread where the item isn't actually for sale to others. It's just between the 2 parties for documentation, so these threads should have a different tag or be in a different subforum. But if the deal fails after creation of such a thread, it's different.
This is what ibose was getting at. It is a genuine sale but not an open sale thread.
As of now I don't see anyone mentioning anything in the first post like you suggested. They wouldn't since it's not allowed to create a thread if a deal happened over PM. I don't know how the mods track such cases. This happened with sanjeev's GPU thread but only because he was open about it I think.

I don't know how they manage the wtb section too, always had that doubt. They are strict with FS but ninja deals/pm deals can always happen in WTB threads. Especially since it's open to new members too, anyone can sell/scam the OP there and it won't really be documented if the WTB's OP isn't particular on it?
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Currently, don't the threads in which a deal has been agreed upon remain in the FS section as well. They don't get moved to a separate section for the convenience of members, right.
Creating a whole new section and then to moderate it will be giving additional work to the admins and moderators who are doing this work for free.
So, if we can get by without increasing their workload for a trivial issue like this, I would prefer that. I am saying this from my experience from the XDA MP, where this was pretty common and no one had any issues with it. Having to read an extra thread, which one already does in other cases where deals have been already reached, doesn't seem that big of an issue to me. I have given this example in my previous posts as well. Say, you open a FS thread and then go through all the posts to then realize that either the item is on hold for someone or already been sold. This already happens in the current way the MP is set-up. So how, a thread, in which the same information is provided in the first post much different. The only difference here is, that in the former's case, the deal was agreed upon after the FS thread was created whereas it is the other way around in the latter case.

Edit - Ideally this should happen in case of deals that materialize out of WTB threads as well, as you pointed out tbat chances of getting scammed with little or no documentation are higher there.
 
rdst_1 said:
Currently, don't the threads in which a deal has been agreed upon remain in the FS section as well. They don't get moved to a separate section for the convenience of members, right.
Creating a whole new section and then to moderate it will be giving additional work to the admins and moderators who are doing this work for free.
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No, the different subforum suggestion was only to filter out the notifications so people don't have to bother with feedback/documentations threads. Not sure if you are subscribed for notifications or you'd know. At the very least it should not have the "FS" tag/prefix but something else, so even if notified we'll know it's not a sale thread, but an already ongoing deal and is only for documentation.
It's not about having done-deal threads in the MP, that's fine. If someone is late to check an FS thread and misses out on it, it's on them.

For instance, I PM'd a member (I know he won't mind if I name him, but still) when an FS thread was created but found out that it was created in response to someone from the WTB section to follow forum guidelines (incorrectly, this was clarified later and thread removed) and document stuff. So it was already reserved for someone else. I had no problem with the OP in this case but this is what will happen if it's not made clear.

rdst_1 said:
So how, a thread, in which the same information is provided in the first post much different.
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If all the required information is given by the seller in the OP, it could be fine. It should be clear that it's not an open sale thread - should be apparent from the thread's title. So changing the FS prefix will do here.

rdst_1 said:
I am saying this from my experience from the XDA MP, where this was pretty common and no one had any issues with it.
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I wasn't a part of MP there so don't know how it worked. But the mods here don't want such documentation threads (yet) so they are the one's who have an issue with it, because it will possibly increase their work and so want to avoid it all together, and hence they say don't deal over PMs?
 
roofrider said:
No, the different subforum suggestion was only to filter out the notifications so people don't have to bother with feedback/documentations threads. Not sure if you are subscribed for notifications or you'd know.
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Ok, I can understand that. I have never subscribed to any threads or parts of the forums anywhere. I prefer using Tapatalk which provides such functionality to browse Participated/Subscribed threads without the niggling issue of notifications.
I just want that people have the security of documentation (whatever little security that provides) for people who make deals without FS threads (directly or through WTB threads) so that it doesn't turn into a he said-she said debate if things were to go south later.

Anyhow, I don't visit the MP often to be bothered by things like these. The issue with increasing complications, from my past experience, is that, if it becomes too much work for admins and mods, then they start considering closing down the MP completely. Have seen it happen with the XDA MP. So I just tread with caution now and follow the funda - Don't fix if it ain't broken.
 
roofrider said:
Your Argentine Steam? You change locations to buy?
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I used to switch accounts when I found out about it and then steam blocked users from being able to change country simply via VPN last year

deezcnuts said:
Wouldn’t buying with Indian card or other payment methods change your steam region back to India? Or do you have an Argentinian payment method?
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I usually have my gf send me gift cards since she has Indian account. But that isn't working since past 2 months. I have a couple thousand left in my steam balance and once I run out I'll have to come back to Indian steam
 
Hi All,

Was just going through the marketplace. Looking through the Video Cards section, seems like there are a few ads that are severely over priced than even the actual buying price of the owner. I am new, and not sure of the rules around here, but isn't that Scalping? Straight up and right in the face. I saw an Ad for a *used* 1660s for 23k... Bill posted for 13k. This wasn't the only one I saw multiple others.
That sort of made me sad. I understand people trying to be desperate and buying goods beyond their retail pricing, and henceforth, inflating the actual market price of the product, but for a tech forum to be supporting it and not keeping a check, seems a bit odd.
I understand making profits is not a crime and it makes perfect sense that there is a buyer who will buy the given product at the asked price and the forum is only facilitating the effort. However, does this not only promote scalping, but also hurt the general market pricing? It simply feels like the forum is letting people take advantage of the scarcity to make a quick buck and robbing people of the sum that could have been used for another item in the pc upgrade line.
IMO posts should be restricted to on or below MSRP but that is solely my opinion. Anyone is allowed to disagree. I just feel this would be useful in combatting the scalping situation going around, which, incidentally, some retailers have also become a part of.
When I came here I thought I would find people encouraging below msrp deals letting the tech community breathe and thrive. Being a gamer in the country is already difficult; this does not seem to be helping it.
P.S. I already have a good mid range gaming rig, so I might be opinionated and not see the point of people who want the GPU right now and are willing to pay the prices. As I said, this is only my opinion, the community should decide the rules.
 
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