kidrow
Adept
Hi all,
Please note that the section within the dotted lines is just a bit of background that may be skipped. The actual question follows this section at the bottom....
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I recently compared the low light pictures of my P&S Panasonic LZ8 with those shot with my phone, a Xiaomi Redmi 1s. I shot a few images with my phone first, since it can only shoot in auto. I then took the same images with my phone, after adjusting the exposure to match that of the phone, being careful to match the iso as well.
Here are those shots. The title of the images shows the exif data.
http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/kidrow1/library/Panny LZ8 Vs Redmi 1s
I was surprised to see that the phone handles noise better than the LZ8. Of course, the LZ8 was purchased about 5-6 years back, while the phone was purchased about 2 years back. But I never realized that camera phones had improved by that much. Mind you, both my phone & camera were ~Rs. 5000-6000 when I purchased them. So neither are exactly high-end.
The comparsion came about because my wife, after coming back from a recent trip, complained that the LZ8 took too long to focus & that a large number of shots taken by her travel companion ended up being blurry. I can only guess that the lighting situation must have been adverse on those occassions, & hence the camera struggled to focus & that the resultant shutter speed was probably too low.
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So What would be the minimum spend required to get a camera that would be a decent upgrade to my LZ8/phone (a Xiaomi Redmi 1s)?
I'm essentially looking for a travel camera with around 10x to 15x zoom that can be used by even novices. So the Auto mode needs to be good. The focusing needs to be quick & performance in low light situations should be better than what is available on my phone.
Though I'm open to a dslr or mirrorless camera, I don't see myself buying any lenses in the near future. Plus I want to keep my spending to a minimum. (Though I enjoy photography as a hobby, I don't spend enough time pursuing it). There's also my perception that a dslr is bulky, though I'm not really sure as it seems that, nowadays, entry-level dslrs are much lighter. (Are they about as heavy as a bridge camera?).
Certain things that I'd like would be -
1. A camera that is about a stop or two faster than my phone & LZ8 (to gain a faster shutter speed for those with unsteady hands & to help in low light situations).
Would a basic P&S current-gen camera's handling of noise at iso 3200 be comparable to that of my phone at iso 1600. Is that a valid way of thinking about this?
Have there been any significant advancements in image stabilization in current-gen cameras that'll help?
There is also the question of a faster lens, but this seems to be available on only premium compacts such as on the RX100 or a dslr with a prime lens.
My focus is on low-light performance because apart from that, the image quality on a phone is as good as a dslr (for my needs). Also, many places, usually encountered on trips, such as museums, aquariums etc. have low light & restrictions on flash use.
2. Decent zoom of about 200-300mm equivalent & higher.
3. About 16 or more megapixels.
Often, I have to crop excessively in order to frame shots properly. For instance, a photo taken by someone else may need to be cropped from landscape to portrait.
Though I don't print large nor pixel-peep, a higher dpi/ppi would mean that even after heavy cropping, I'd be left with something usable since even if the image is a bit noisy, at a given print size or monitor size, a higher meagpixel count would mean less apparent visible noise & more sharper photos.
4. Raw image capture would be a bonus. (Or would it?).
There are often times that the subject is underexposed by the auto mode, probably because of the metering mode chosen. When I bring up the levels in Photoshop later, it results in a lot of noise. Now I'm not sure if this is because -
a. the image is noisy to begin with on account of the smaller sensor
b. it is the nature of the beast & trying to up levels will always result in noise
c. I'm doing something wrong in Photoshop or
d. the Jpeg format which has only so much information is to blame
I've also read that the smaller sensor doesn't capture as much detail as on a larger sensor, & consequqently raw data on a smaller sensor camera isn't as useful as on a larger sensor camera. Is that true?
5. Speedy Auto-focus
6. Manual control (PASM) would be a bonus.
7. Features such as on-camera HDR compositing (where multiple exposures are taken & composited together to adjust for tricky lighting situations), or bracketing, or sweep panorama would be a bonus.
I initially looked at the Nikon S7000 since it retails for around Rs. 10000. It seems like a decent camera for the price. But I'm unsure about how much better its low light performance will be compared to my phone. The only camera I'm sure will be a jump is one with a larger sensor like the Sony RX100 mk1, or a Nikon J5. But that is a huge jump in price as well. Price-wise, these are in entry-level dslr territory. Also, the zoom is limited.
So I'm hoping for some pointers that would help with deciding on what would be a good upgrade, & what sort of budget would need to be set. Have we reached a stage where a camera purchase with a 1/2.3" sensor doesn't make sense anymore?
*#1 - On a related note, are compact enthusiast cameras like the RX100 or superzooms or dslrs available for rent in Mumbai? Any idea what the rents would be like?
*#2 - Which sites compare sample images of different cameras side by side? There's dpreview, of course. But a lot of the cameras there in the current comparison tool are on the higher end. There's also the imaging-resource comparometer or the German dkamera. Any other besides these?
Many thanks!!!
PS: Apologies for such a long post.
Please note that the section within the dotted lines is just a bit of background that may be skipped. The actual question follows this section at the bottom....
xxx-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------xxx
I recently compared the low light pictures of my P&S Panasonic LZ8 with those shot with my phone, a Xiaomi Redmi 1s. I shot a few images with my phone first, since it can only shoot in auto. I then took the same images with my phone, after adjusting the exposure to match that of the phone, being careful to match the iso as well.
Here are those shots. The title of the images shows the exif data.
http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/kidrow1/library/Panny LZ8 Vs Redmi 1s
I was surprised to see that the phone handles noise better than the LZ8. Of course, the LZ8 was purchased about 5-6 years back, while the phone was purchased about 2 years back. But I never realized that camera phones had improved by that much. Mind you, both my phone & camera were ~Rs. 5000-6000 when I purchased them. So neither are exactly high-end.
The comparsion came about because my wife, after coming back from a recent trip, complained that the LZ8 took too long to focus & that a large number of shots taken by her travel companion ended up being blurry. I can only guess that the lighting situation must have been adverse on those occassions, & hence the camera struggled to focus & that the resultant shutter speed was probably too low.
xxx---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------xxx
So What would be the minimum spend required to get a camera that would be a decent upgrade to my LZ8/phone (a Xiaomi Redmi 1s)?
I'm essentially looking for a travel camera with around 10x to 15x zoom that can be used by even novices. So the Auto mode needs to be good. The focusing needs to be quick & performance in low light situations should be better than what is available on my phone.
Though I'm open to a dslr or mirrorless camera, I don't see myself buying any lenses in the near future. Plus I want to keep my spending to a minimum. (Though I enjoy photography as a hobby, I don't spend enough time pursuing it). There's also my perception that a dslr is bulky, though I'm not really sure as it seems that, nowadays, entry-level dslrs are much lighter. (Are they about as heavy as a bridge camera?).
Certain things that I'd like would be -
1. A camera that is about a stop or two faster than my phone & LZ8 (to gain a faster shutter speed for those with unsteady hands & to help in low light situations).
Would a basic P&S current-gen camera's handling of noise at iso 3200 be comparable to that of my phone at iso 1600. Is that a valid way of thinking about this?
Have there been any significant advancements in image stabilization in current-gen cameras that'll help?
There is also the question of a faster lens, but this seems to be available on only premium compacts such as on the RX100 or a dslr with a prime lens.
My focus is on low-light performance because apart from that, the image quality on a phone is as good as a dslr (for my needs). Also, many places, usually encountered on trips, such as museums, aquariums etc. have low light & restrictions on flash use.
2. Decent zoom of about 200-300mm equivalent & higher.
3. About 16 or more megapixels.
Often, I have to crop excessively in order to frame shots properly. For instance, a photo taken by someone else may need to be cropped from landscape to portrait.
Though I don't print large nor pixel-peep, a higher dpi/ppi would mean that even after heavy cropping, I'd be left with something usable since even if the image is a bit noisy, at a given print size or monitor size, a higher meagpixel count would mean less apparent visible noise & more sharper photos.
4. Raw image capture would be a bonus. (Or would it?).
There are often times that the subject is underexposed by the auto mode, probably because of the metering mode chosen. When I bring up the levels in Photoshop later, it results in a lot of noise. Now I'm not sure if this is because -
a. the image is noisy to begin with on account of the smaller sensor
b. it is the nature of the beast & trying to up levels will always result in noise
c. I'm doing something wrong in Photoshop or
d. the Jpeg format which has only so much information is to blame
I've also read that the smaller sensor doesn't capture as much detail as on a larger sensor, & consequqently raw data on a smaller sensor camera isn't as useful as on a larger sensor camera. Is that true?
5. Speedy Auto-focus
6. Manual control (PASM) would be a bonus.
7. Features such as on-camera HDR compositing (where multiple exposures are taken & composited together to adjust for tricky lighting situations), or bracketing, or sweep panorama would be a bonus.
I initially looked at the Nikon S7000 since it retails for around Rs. 10000. It seems like a decent camera for the price. But I'm unsure about how much better its low light performance will be compared to my phone. The only camera I'm sure will be a jump is one with a larger sensor like the Sony RX100 mk1, or a Nikon J5. But that is a huge jump in price as well. Price-wise, these are in entry-level dslr territory. Also, the zoom is limited.
So I'm hoping for some pointers that would help with deciding on what would be a good upgrade, & what sort of budget would need to be set. Have we reached a stage where a camera purchase with a 1/2.3" sensor doesn't make sense anymore?
*#1 - On a related note, are compact enthusiast cameras like the RX100 or superzooms or dslrs available for rent in Mumbai? Any idea what the rents would be like?
*#2 - Which sites compare sample images of different cameras side by side? There's dpreview, of course. But a lot of the cameras there in the current comparison tool are on the higher end. There's also the imaging-resource comparometer or the German dkamera. Any other besides these?
Many thanks!!!
PS: Apologies for such a long post.
