No card payments for App Store purchases

[t3chg33k]

Apple stops debit, credit card payments in India for subscriptions, app purchases

Apple users have complained for the past two months, about not being able to pay for subscriptions for apps with their saved cards.

indianexpress.com

Probably not new news, but only realised it yesterday when I checked my Apple account and saw that my saved card was disabled. I have only purchased half a dozen apps on the App Store over the past decade and don't subscribe to anything but this is superbly inconvenient.

Some would blame the RBI regulations on recurring payments but then a lot of the Indian companies have already set up the system for tokenization and recurring payments, so it seems that Apple doesn't really care much for sales in India or else they are happy pocketing the extra 2% from Net Banking or UPI payments that most people with subscriptions will be forced to use.

 

[Ramadhir Singh]

welcome to king-jong-land
it was in news few days back.. but these news are suppressed and is not allowed to reach masses.
, see the PayTm news today.. alibaba exited and value dropped 99.5%

 

[blr_p]

Some would blame the RBI regulations on recurring payments but then a lot of the Indian companies have already set up the system for tokenization and recurring payments, so it seems that Apple doesn't really care much for sales in India or else they are happy pocketing the extra 2% from Net Banking or UPI payments that most people with subscriptions will be forced to use.

The RBI implemented it as a protective measure as people complained their accounts were getting drained out.

The directives on auto-debit, which went live effective October 1, 2021, meant that any instructions for recurring online payments made through credit or debit cards would need validation from the user with the existing standing instructions getting affected

This next one is puzzling

Separately, in another move that will become effective July 1 onwards, any company storing card details of users on their websites or apps will have to purge those details. An estimated 5 million customers, who have stored their card details for online transactions on various platforms, could be impacted if the online players and merchants are not able to implement the changes at their backend.

What does it mean ?

 

[gourav]

People can blame RBI all they want, but these measures are highly needed. Just because the US insists on using archaic systems with zero security, doesn't mean we have to do the same. India might not have that kind of money, but our banking system is more advanced than that of the US. We should appreciate RBI for taking these measures. Credit card details being stored in random servers is just an accident waiting to happen. We've seen umpteen hacks, enough to know that no amount of security is reliable and the only way is to not have the data stored in the servers at all.

 

[ishanjain28]

Credit card details being stored in random servers is just an accident waiting to happen.

AFAIK, Credit card information will still be saved to do stuff like offer refunds. They just can't use those details to do payments.
> People can blame RBI all they want, but these measures are highly needed.

Execution of this whole thing has been a complete disaster from start to end and they should've done better.


1.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520726542519005184

2.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527179544322785280

They have uprooted earnings of thousands of business who relied on this just to "protect customers" and they have no clear path for business who want to use recurring payments.

 

[lockhrt999]

Just because the US insists on using archaic systems with zero security, doesn't mean we have to do the same.

I agree. US's honorary payment system is not only archaic but also stupid. Those guys don't know better.

Nevertheless, Google play store, Netflix etc tons of others don't have any problem staging recurring charges on Indian cards and still comply with RBI.

All in all, credit debit cards are very legacy payment system. They need to be replaced by UPI like faster, modern and less hacky services.

 

[blr_p]

Nevertheless, Google play store, Netflix etc tons of others don't have any problem staging recurring charges on Indian cards and still comply with RBI.

Right, so why does Apple have a problem?

The reason has to be more than Apple just being Apple. Tempting as it is for people to explain it that way.

All in all, credit debit cards are very legacy payment system. They need to be replaced by UPI like faster, modern and less hacky services.

Modern means e-wallet type services Paytm etc. No data required to be stored for these?

@ishanjain28 Apple is no longer the most valuable company in the world. That position is now held by Aramco

 

[t3chg33k]

The RBI implemented it as a protective measure as people complained their accounts were getting drained out.



This next one is puzzling


What does it mean ?

The first one was about setting the standing instructions with the card issuer for recurring payments. This wasn't an issue in general as it meant registering again for recurring payments with the card issuer.

The last one is about tokenisation where each app/website will not be allowed to store card details. These will instead be stored with Visa, Mastercard and so on with authorization tokens provided by them to the merchants.

This is indeed great for security. The store has to make the change to support tokenisation. I think the inconvenience will be that every recurring payment now has to be authorised to be tokenised.

It simply seems that Apple doesn't even want to make the effort to make that change to their payments system, probably because they think it is not worth investing specifically for India due to the volumes involved.

Note that this is not going to be mandatory on July 1. Without tokenisation, user will have to enter all the card details each and every time. May be in Apple's mindset, this too breaks the user experience.

 

[lockhrt999]

The reason has to be more than Apple just being Apple.

Apple has always given step motherly treatment to India. Steve Jobs who had spent considerable time in India, didn't think opening up single shop here in India while he was alive. Apple makes iPhones in India for India but hardly drops prices for chyavanprash janta.

Modern means e-wallet type services Paytm etc. No data reruired to be stored for these?

Paytm is just a wallet. It's built on other payment technologies like UPI, master/visa cards, net banking etc. And as far as I can see, except the cash itself, all other things save some data on the customers.

The store has to make the change to support tokenisation. I think the problem will be that every recurring payment now has to be authorised to be tokenised.

It'll eventually happen. Indian Play store revenue is actually very fractional compared to what other google services charge. Google isn't suddenly going to abandon ad network or GCP. It'll have to implement the tokenized system.

 

[ishanjain28]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527530959116984320

 

[t3chg33k]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527530959116984320

Swiggy, Zomato and the other delivery apps had implemented this within the original timeline of Dec 31, so there is little reason for big companies to complain. Smaller merchants usually use an off the shelf solution from one of the payment providers who have already implemented the same.

It really comes down to the effort and probably additional expense required for the implementation. RBI was forced to do it essentially due to a lot of local carding scams and honestly India cannot move out of its obsession with cash till cards are considered a more secure alternative.

 

[gourav]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1527530959116984320

This is pure bs. Yes, there was a bit of messup regarding tokenisation announcement, but there was enough time given for migration. Most companies did it within the timeline, including Flipkart and Amazon. Apple didn't because it didn't want to.

US companies are used to getting their way with the US government through lobbying. They hate regulations and essentially do whatever they want. Apple didn't get its way here in India, so now it's throwing a tantrum. Nothing else.

 

[singenaadam]

US companies are used to getting their way with the US government through lobbying. They hate regulations and essentially do whatever they want. Apple didn't get its way here in India, so now it's throwing a tantrum. Nothing else.

Visa did complain to US Govt on UPI. India didn't bother. We need our own systems in our control. Just see what Visa & MC did with Russia, overnight they shut down the payment systems. Even Singapore has an alternate system, why not a huge economy/market like us?

It's a fad to criticize anything & everything that the govt does.

 

[gourav]

yeah. It's not like we've banned VISA and Mastercard, they are both functional along with Rupay. There's no harm in having our own systems.

And UPI is a life saver. India would have never been able to adopt cards the way US has. UPI is much easier and because of UPI, it's suddenly become possible to actually go cashless. Everyone from vegetable sellers to auto drivers accepts UPI in Mumbai and Bangalore these days (haven't been to other cities, so can't say about those).

BTW, RBI is not the government. Granted there's a lot of overlap, but it's an independent regulatory authority.

 

[rdst_1]

As someone who has always preferred using cards and have only used UPI to receive some payment because others were adamant about it, I still prefer using credit cards online just because IMO, they are more secure due to the insurance factor that they provide. I have twice received refunds for transactions where the receiving entity didn't ship the item. That kind of protection is not available when using Debit Cards/Bank Transfer/UPI. The added benefit of garnering reward points also helps. Have bought more than a couple of flight tickets just with the points.
For transferring money from my account to others, I still prefer using NEFT/IMPS as that provides a second level of protection by using OTP.

 

[saurabhpach]

This new rbi mandate is so screwed up, it’s turned my life upside down. Tracking and allowing payments has become a mess. Although the intent was good for most, but what do we do with international transactions. I travel a lot and I can’t do a lot of purchases using my card because they are unable to put a hold on the card and raise a debit at the time of product shipment. It’s a nightmare to explain to them the regulations that we have, so many orders canceled. Even a workaround through PayPal doesn’t work every time.
If anyone has a solution please share

The first one was about setting the standing instructions with the card issuer for recurring payments. This wasn't an issue in general as it meant registering again for recurring payments with the card issuer.

The last one is about tokenisation where each app/website will not be allowed to store card details. These will instead be stored with Visa, Mastercard and so on with authorization tokens provided by them to the merchants.

This is indeed great for security. The store has to make the change to support tokenisation. I think the inconvenience will be that every recurring payment now has to be authorised to be tokenised.

It simply seems that Apple doesn't even want to make the effort to make that change to their payments system, probably because they think it is not worth investing specifically for India due to the volumes involved.

Note that this is not going to be mandatory on July 1. Without tokenisation, user will have to enter all the card details each and every time. May be in Apple's mindset, this too breaks the user experience.

The idea of tokenisation is very good for security. But who will implement this abroad. So many times your CC will not work when you go on holidays and try and rent something. It is so embarrassing. At least these mandates should’ve left international transactions aside. I’ve wasted so much time on this nonsense. And those third party off the shelf solutions are expensive to small retailers, my friend has a gym, and he was as such making little money due to massive competition by branded gyms, now he has to shell out a monthly fees for this too. He’s so frustrated, his margins were already razed thin. The govt should have consulted the public opinion first.

 

[singenaadam]

This new rbi mandate is so screwed up, it’s turned my life upside down. Tracking and allowing payments has become a mess. Although the intent was good for most, but what do we do with international transactions. I travel a lot and I can’t do a lot of purchases using my card because they are unable to put a hold on the card and raise a debit at the time of product shipment. It’s a nightmare to explain to them the regulations that we have, so many orders canceled. Even a workaround through PayPal doesn’t work every time.
If anyone has a solution please share

Have you tried gPay? It may be reasonably available in the counties you travel to. gPay implemented tokenization, so the process may be smoother.

 

[salian]

This new rbi mandate is so screwed up, it’s turned my life upside down. Tracking and allowing payments has become a mess. Although the intent was good for most, but what do we do with international transactions. I travel a lot and I can’t do a lot of purchases using my card because they are unable to put a hold on the card and raise a debit at the time of product shipment. It’s a nightmare to explain to them the regulations that we have, so many orders canceled. Even a workaround through PayPal doesn’t work every time.
If anyone has a solution please share

Amex. Seriously.

 

[lockhrt999]

Amex. Seriously.

Please explain what you mean by that.

 

[salian]

they are unable to put a hold on the card and raise a debit at the time of product shipment.

I just did this yesterday using my India-issued American Express card.

My HDFC didn't allow me to do this. My ICICI did work, for some reason. Other times it hasn't.
But Amex has worked seamlessly and consistently for small and large holds both.