On the paid quota system in colleges and more.

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Paying a donation is usually considered a bribe (or is illegal) because the fees are not standardised. That is, if A's daddy can cough up 10 lakh rupees whereas B's daddy can cough up only 5 lakh rupees, A will get admission in the institute. This is obviously unfair in a sense and can lead to corruption. But in certain private colleges, the paid quota fees are standardised. Which means, everyone willing to enter through the paid quota has to pay the same fees. This is not illegal (as long as most seats are filled on the basis of merit). Heck, it is hardly even unethical. Also, the paid quota is something like 10%-15% in certain private colleges. These people are paying money out of their own pockets to fund their own education.

Surely, how you get INTO an institute is less important than how you get OUT of it.

Imagine a hypothetical college where there was no entrance exam but all the students just had to pay their fees to get enrolled. But this college had a strict system of evaluation in their college exams and strict administrative and academic protocols. This means irrespective of how the students got in (i.e. with or without an entrance exam) they would obtain their degree only if they met the evaluation standards of the institute and cleared all their college exams. In this case, how would it matter how the students got in? The ones who did not manage to clear their college exams would drop out anyway or be under-performers (which would reflect in their CGPA). Only the ones who performed well would make it through. So, irrespective of the input student quality the output student quality would be good. That is, entering the institute may not be merit based but getting out of it surely would be.

Heck, just take my own case. I'm a general category student whose entrance exam rank was the second highest in my class. But after getting through, my academic performance has been a lot poorer than some paid quota students who have quite high GPAs (and some of them have even gotten into good American universities on the basis of their subsequent achievements).

One entrance exam does not define your life. It may not necessarily reflect your intellect either. An averagely intelligent person may make it through an entrance exam through sheer hard work and preparation whereas someone of high intelligence may not if he didn't/couldn't prepare well enough. Some people succeed at some points in life whereas others succeed at other points. Some people succeed early in life whereas others succeed later. The world has all sorts of permutations and combinations of people and situations.

I think everyone must be given a chance to pursue a degree of their choice. If they don't perform well, they'll drop out. Big deal. Govt. colleges will obviously have merit based entry (this makes sense because they are public institutions which have to cater even to poor people and hence they have to distribute limited seats on the basis of meritorious entry) and some top tier private colleges will also have merit based entry for their own reasons (high student quality, enviroment etc.). But there's no reason why (lower tier) private colleges need to have merit based entry as long as they can strictly follow the hypothetical college model I talked about earlier where the entry may not be meritorious but the exit is (though this might be difficult for private colleges which don't have sufficient infrastructure and faculty). The fees should be standardised which is important otherwise it can lead to corruption where the administration becomes a bunch of money mongers.
 
Cool story bro.

What bugs me the most about the Indian education system, is that the entrance exam is held only once a year. Why not hold it after a span of every 2/3/4 months? (A poor man's version of the SAT/GMAT). That way, if for whatever reason you screw up one attempt, you can always try again without wasting a year.
 
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@ OP - Can you tell me if we can get admission in B.tech college through donation even if I choose Commerce in 12th?
You can't. You need to have Maths, Physics and Chemistry as your 12th class subjects. Besides, without M.P.C in 12th you would find engineering hard unless you work your ass off in the beginning (trust me, this is a lot harder than it sounds). You'll need to know Calculus, Vectors, Probability, Electricity and Magnetism, Newton's Laws of Motion, Thermodynamics etc. Some topics more in some branches than others.
 
Interesting idea, but not sustainable at all. If the idea is implemented well and a minimum standard is maintained to only allow people who have learnt well to pass out, there will be a steady growth in initial enrollment with each batch till the point where the resources will be stretched so thin that the college won't be able to teach anyone.

Then there is the risk aversion that will come into play. What if someone spends 4 years and gets nothing out of it? I am quite sure many would prefer to go to a college with poorer standards just to get the degree.
 
Interesting idea, but not sustainable at all. If the idea is implemented well and a minimum standard is maintained to only allow people who have learnt well to pass out, there will be a steady growth in initial enrollment with each batch till the point where the resources will be stretched so thin that the college won't be able to teach anyone.

Then there is the risk aversion that will come into play. What if someone spends 4 years and gets nothing out of it? I am quite sure many would prefer to go to a college with poorer standards just to get the degree.

Of course. That's why I talked about it as a model first. Infrastructure constraints are a reality in many colleges. But there's no reason why such a system can't be there in colleges where the infrastructure is good. And as mentioned earlier, there are some good private colleges which have a paid quota which is only a fraction of the total student intake which is mostly on the basis of an entrance exam (i.e. around 10% is through the paid quota). It works for them. It's not like these students are allowed to pass through their college exams by paying money. They have to compete with everyone irrespective of how they got in. Apart from that, I find it irritating that people sideline students who entered through the paid quota (the kind which is legal) and call them "donation students" irrespective of their performance in college (sometimes they outperform "merit" students). The thing is we don't have a shortage of engineering colleges in our country (though I'm not sure about this). But we have infrastructure constraints. There is a limit on the number of people who apply for engineering every year (even though the number is high). If there are sufficient number of colleges with sufficient infrastructure, you can apply this system everywhere. It's another thing that some colleges wouldn't want to implement this system. Some colleges would want to filter out certain students before they admit the rest. But other colleges can implement it. There should be a student enrollment limit on the basis of infrastructure constraints.


If someone spends 4 years and gets nothing out of it (4 years need not be a strict limit BTW), well, they should have kept that possibility in mind earlier and worked harder. What about students who study in top tier institutes but have 5 GPAs or drop out? What do they get out of those 4 years ? Same thing. You want success, you have to perform in one way or another.
 
Of course. That's why I talked about it as a model first. Infrastructure constraints are a reality in many colleges. But there's no reason why such a system can't be there in colleges where the infrastructure is good. And as mentioned earlier, there are some good private colleges which have a paid quota which is only a fraction of the total student intake which is mostly on the basis of an entrance exam (i.e. around 10% is through the paid quota). It works for them. It's not like these students are allowed to pass through their college exams by paying money. They have to compete with everyone irrespective of how they got in. Apart from that, I find it irritating that people sideline students who entered through the paid quota (the kind which is legal) and call them "donation students" irrespective of their performance in college (sometimes they outperform "merit" students). The thing is we don't have a shortage of engineering colleges in our country (though I'm not sure about this). But we have infrastructure constraints. There is a limit on the number of people who apply for engineering every year (even though the number is high). If there are sufficient number of colleges with sufficient infrastructure, you can apply this system everywhere. It's another thing that some colleges wouldn't want to implement this system. Some colleges would want to filter out certain students before they admit the rest. But other colleges can implement it. There should be a student enrollment limit on the basis of infrastructure constraints.


If someone spends 4 years and gets nothing out of it (4 years need not be a strict limit BTW), well, they should have kept that possibility in mind earlier and worked harder. What about students who study in top tier institutes but have 5 GPAs or drop out? What do they get out of those 4 years ? Same thing. You want success, you have to perform in one way or another.


I can't really comment on the specific discrimination faced by the "donation students", there were no donation seats at my uni. Though I did see discrimination based on state, religion, caste (especially towards those who enter via the reservation system), engineering department and sometimes even the accent. Are the cliques formed based on merit vs donation that important in the larger scheme of things? can they be eliminated without some other clannish behaviour taking over?

There will always be low GPAs when the grades are based on a relative grading system. I don't think that is a good way to objectively judge how deserving a person was of his degree. (Though there were usually 5-10 people expelled from my uni every year due to extreme under-performance).
 
I can't really comment on the specific discrimination faced by the "donation students", there were no donation seats at my uni. Though I did see discrimination based on state, religion, caste (especially towards those who enter via the reservation system), engineering department and sometimes even the accent. Are the cliques formed based on merit vs donation that important in the larger scheme of things? can they be eliminated without some other clannish behaviour taking over?

Maybe, maybe not. But it's a good thing to eliminate as much clannish behaviour as is possible. No one would bother to talk about racism that way. Why talk about it because some other -ism might crop up? Same thing.
 
i thought there always was a paid quota and free quota in tamilnadu? , it existed when i was there .... although i got free seat quota in another college , this college that i wanted they said that course is full for free seats , so i had to go through payment quota , then i saw there were 2 of them who came through free seat :D
 
Guys, I was just thinking about a few things and I would like your inputs on this.

Paid seats were started off (in self financing colleges) as a means to earn money which could be used to subsidise fees for students who entered through the entrance exam, to provide scholarships for students who excelled academically and to bolster infrastructure (which would mean better facilities and more seats). They weren't supposed to be for profiteering. I don't know if institutes amass wealth by doing this.

This works as a financial model and seems okay as long as institutes don't ask students to pay money to pass them through their university exams. As long as everyone who studies in an institute has to go through the same rigorous academic process irrespective of how they entered, it seems fine.

Now what are some of the problems that have arisen and why do these paid seats attract so much controversy? What went wrong?

Entrance exams were started because there are a limited number of seats and institutes can't provide education to everyone that applies. As a result, people are pre-selected to make the best of the seats allotted to them.

Ideally, everyone who applies should be given admission and only the ones who survive the course should be made to exit. In fact, in Germany most courses are free to access for everyone (no entrance exams). Which means everyone who applies can enter but a lot of people drop out after entering because they don't pass through the in-university evaluation. There are courses which pre-select students because there are a limited no. of slots. This doesn't depend on the difficulty of the course but on the popularity. If there are more applicants than seats, they are pre-selected based on criteria like high school GPA etc. I just inquired about this on Anandtech (http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2319054).

This system is very hard to implement in India, due to population and infrastructure issues.

I'm beginning to have doubts about some stuff. Maybe I was wrong. (?) Sigh.
 
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