Privacy advocates raise concern over Apple scanning iPhones for child abuse images

y2s

Disciple
FWIW, all the big providers be it Google, Microsoft or Dropbox have been using AI to detect such images for a while now. Apple is doing it differently by using local scanning as opposed to cloud scanning since uploaded images would remain encrypted. Additionally it would take multiple flags for apple to get an entire decryption key as only part of the key is obtained in each flag.

Regardless, this is a very alarming development. Hopefully will be reversed before it is implemented. It is also arguably worse as the other providers are only scanning data that is uploaded to the cloud vs everything on a end users device.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What apple is doing here is a very slippery slope - the tech behind it is bound to be misused going forward.
 
The problem is not being apple hater, its the hypocrisy. Making big noise about apple's new child safety features calling it surveillance at the same time suggesting everyone how awesome windows is or even the xiaomi products are even after knowing how much telemetry MS collects or how Xiaomi is designated as Chinese military arm. The problem is with trolling/flame baiting behavior. The main reason I call him a ****ing retard, initially tried engaging with logic and reason but didn't work because of this retarded behavior. (I am slowly getting convinced that I should put control statements like Tienanmen Square and wumao and 1984 in my replies.)

Now, coming to what apple is doing, it is really bad. Right now, it is only implemented in US and clearly goes against 4th Amendment. not sure what legal repercussions could be but it is really bad. simply put if there is a hash for CP then in future there could be a hash for gay porn too. if a country like India/saudi arabia where the same sex relationships are not legal and the they want to track it using same technology, like someone on internet said, how would Tim Cook feel about it...

This. I was firmly pro-Apple, but this whole saga changed my outlook.

Scanning and flagging a pic, and directly informing law enforcement can kill people's lives. This is straight out of some future dystopia tbh.
 

belictony

Disciple
Now, coming to what apple is doing, it is really bad. Right now, it is only implemented in US and clearly goes against 4th Amendment. not sure what legal repercussions could be but it is really bad. simply put if there is a hash for CP then in future there could be a hash for gay porn too. if a country like India/saudi arabia where the same sex relationships are not legal and the they want to track it using same technology, like someone on internet said, how would Tim Cook feel about it...
Same sex relationship/ marriage is not illegal in India. Article 377 was annulled. Don’t exaggerate the issue. People have to show Apple that we can’t be taken for granted, but it won’t happen.

After 2 weeks, this news will die out of the news cycle and something else will be the hot topic.
 
They now have access to any files on the devices, so privacy is not a concern anymore being taken care off by corporation itself.
People respected them for their tough stance on privacy which is no more.

Using resources on costly devices end users are renting out from them for their own purpose.

Prospective chances of users getting locked out of their apple accounts and rented devices without recourse, because of false positives and what not.

All users who rented their device are suspicious criminals by default now.

Now every other mobile manufacturer can copy this simple trick.

Wondering why anybody should use such devices now, unless forced to.
 
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ninjenstein

Disciple
If I'm not wrong, photos will be scanned (processing done on your device) only if you have turned on iCloud Photos. You can opt out by not using iCloud for Photos.
 
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vivek.krishnan

If you cant see the green dot, I'm offline :P
Skilled
Are you an apple hater?. You seem to be spreading this hate in multiple threads on anything to apple.

I believe he is a harsh critic.

I am no less critical of Apple either. IMO their entire campaign around privacy is entirely dubious. Others, who are open about what they do are slammed.
 

belictony

Disciple
I believe he is a harsh critic.

I am no less critical of Apple either. IMO their entire campaign around privacy is entirely dubious. Others, who are open about what they do are slammed.
how would you differentiate between a hater and harsh critic?

Till the time thes the privacy practices are audited by independent third party audit firms and a report is published, no one should believe their claims whether it's advertised or otherwise
 

vivek.krishnan

If you cant see the green dot, I'm offline :P
Skilled
Apple did advertise privacy but now they are telling that they are doing CSAM detection. If you have something to hide, stop using Apple. It’s business. There is no legal contract between end users and Apple that apple can’t stop being so private anymore,

buyers have to show them with their wallet power but that wont happen. Apple didn’t get any hit on market share when they removed charger or not using usb c and still using the lightening connector or removal of headphone jack. its a duopoly market; Android or Apple. Apple is comparatively privacy enforced than android.

Your first line itself is a oxymoron. The point is not about detection. Its the uploading in the name of CSAM.

Do you think the average person cares? Most dont and still assume its a status symbol. It will take sometime to trickle down.

Apple pitches their privacy when in reality, they are not much better.
You can call out apple in this forum or any other social media. It’s not going to change much.

World is headed towards dangerous path when it comes to Big tech.

msankadi was doesn’t care if apple employees go through his photos but he cares if government does. It doesn’t make sense unless he has something to hide. Don’t you agree?. A reasonable user would prefer nobody to go through their things, but his response was not like a typical user and it showed his intention to hide from government alone.

Don’t expect that Apple cares about making us happy with all decisions. Apple always thinks that they know better and what to do.

were you happy when apple removed chargers/ headphone jacks and many android phone OEMs did the same following Apple?. So it’s a business and see it as a business.

You are again confusing 2 things

Apple said -

What you do on your phone is your business.

Now - Not anymore.

Again with the broken record - headphones and chargers are meaningless. You can buy them. Can you buy your privacy on this matter? I dont think so, especially if you are still sticking for Apple.
A business will do what's best for them is the oldest excuse and it has been used umpteen times for horrible crimes, like the Bhopal Gas tragedy or the illegal dumping of Mercury by Unilever at Kodaikanal or the umpteen pharma factories at Baddi, dumping untreated medical waste by digging borewells and hence polluting the whole ground water. There are many more examples. Sure Apple's mistake might not be as grave as these things I pointed out, but I am just trying to show you what's wrong with the thinking that a business is allowed to take immoral decisions, just because it is a business.

I am really happy you brought this up. I wish people understand that Apple is just trying to sell you something which you aspire to attain without seeing the cost of it. Nearly everything Apple does is pretty much a black box.
The problem is not being apple hater, its the hypocrisy. Making big noise about apple's new child safety features calling it surveillance at the same time suggesting everyone how awesome windows is or even the xiaomi products are even after knowing how much telemetry MS collects or how Xiaomi is designated as Chinese military arm. The problem is with trolling/flame baiting behavior. The main reason I call him a ****ing retard, initially tried engaging with logic and reason but didn't work because of this retarded behavior. (I am slowly getting convinced that I should put control statements like Tienanmen Square and wumao and 1984 in my replies.)

Now, coming to what apple is doing, it is really bad. Right now, it is only implemented in US and clearly goes against 4th Amendment. not sure what legal repercussions could be but it is really bad. simply put if there is a hash for CP then in future there could be a hash for gay porn too. if a country like India/saudi arabia where the same sex relationships are not legal and the they want to track it using same technology, like someone on internet said, how would Tim Cook feel about it...

For, now, the only alternative that is becoming more and more obvious for me is to switch to pine phone with ubuntu touch. I think we as a technology forum should discuss about other alternatives as well as reason with logic and intelligence rather than trolling behavior.

Selective hyprocrisy :p

Coming to the Ubuntu touch - bad news, no VoLTE. Just learned the hard way after flashing it on my F1. Till then degoogled Android - I am flashing CalyxOS.
FWIW, all the big providers be it Google, Microsoft or Dropbox have been using AI to detect such images for a while now. Apple is doing it differently by using local scanning as opposed to cloud scanning since uploaded images would remain encrypted. Additionally it would take multiple flags for apple to get an entire decryption key as only part of the key is obtained in each flag.

Regardless, this is a very alarming development. Hopefully will be reversed before it is implemented. It is also arguably worse as the other providers are only scanning data that is uploaded to the cloud vs everything on a end users device.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What apple is doing here is a very slippery slope - the tech behind it is bound to be misused going forward.

I am pretty much sure backups on iCloud are NOT encrypted as much as they scream 'privacy'
Same sex relationship/ marriage is not illegal in India. Article 377 was annulled. Don’t exaggerate the issue. People have to show Apple that we can’t be taken for granted, but it won’t happen.

After 2 weeks, this news will die out of the news cycle and something else will be the hot topic.

I really am laughing at your statement here.

So, according to you, its not going to happen eh?
how would you differentiate between a hater and harsh critic?

Till the time thes the privacy practices are audited by independent third party audit firms and a report is published, no one should believe their claims whether it's advertised or otherwise

Keeping it simple - If he is a hater of Apple he will not own the devices.

A critic will be need them to keep tabs on the things.

Audits? Bah. Apple will just sweep them under the rug as you said, it wont be a hot topic in 2 weeks :p
 
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belictony

Disciple
Your first line itself is a oxymoron. The point is not about detection. Its the uploading in the name of CSAM.

Do you think the average person cares? Most dont and still assume its a status symbol. It will take sometime to trickle down.

Apple pitches their privacy when in reality, they are not much better.
what's your point?. Apple has been doing CSAM detection on icloud mails for more than 2 years now.
I really am laughing at your statement here.

So, according to you, its not going to happen eh?
you can be insensitive and laugh about Gays. it makes you a sexist.

yes, most people are not going to stop buying iphones because of this. the ones who won't buy, won't make a small dent on the sales.

an example from the recent past was the sharing of data with facebook by whatsapp. for a month or two, lot of people switched to signal or telegram. post that most started using whatsapp again
Keeping it simple - If he is a hater of Apple he will not own the devices.

A critic will be need them to keep tabs on the things.

Audits? Bah. Apple will just sweep them under the rug as you said, it wont be a hot topic in 2 weeks :p
no. he just hates apple and spreads hate towards apple. not once, but on numerous occassions. In one of the recent buying advice thread, the person wanted to get an opnion on when is the right time to buy iphone 11. note that the OP wanted to buy iphone and the question was on the timing/ deals. he came to that thread and started posting about why the OP shouldnt buy iPhone and rather buy android. if you think this is not hate, you need to relearn your definition of hate


alos it shows his account has been banned now.
 
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vivek.krishnan

If you cant see the green dot, I'm offline :P
Skilled
what's your point?. Apple has been doing CSAM detection on icloud mails for more than 2 years now.

you can be insensitive and laugh about Gays. it makes you a sexist.

yes, most people are not going to stop buying iphones because of this. the ones who won't buy, won't make a small dent on the sales.

an example from the recent past was the sharing of data with facebook by whatsapp. for a month or two, lot of people switched to signal or telegram. post that most started using whatsapp again

no. he just hates apple and spreads hate towards apple. not once, but on numerous occassions. In one of the recent buying advice thread, the person wanted to get an opnion on when is the right time to buy iphone 11. note that the OP wanted to buy iphone and the question was on the timing/ deals. he came to that thread and started posting about why the OP shouldnt buy iPhone and rather buy android. if you think this is not hate, you need to relearn your definition of hate


alos it shows his account has been banned now.

Apple Mail =! Your phone. Learn to make distinctions. You keep making mixing statements like charger & headphone removals and privacy. Do you even understand whats happening?

As for your insenstive comment about gays, you are definately blind for all I see. And shows that according to you, Apple makes no mistakes. READ IT. Again.

Did facebook promise you privacy at any time? Were you under some mega delusion? Have you no idea what the paid media is? While Apple has been doing exactly that.

As for mskandi, I would like to ask - are you really that dense? He has been banned for heaping scorn on Apple products? If that is true, I am laughing at the mods for doing something so as to speak, is nothing short of stupidity.

You and that other person who claims to be inside Apple repair chain are both going to great lenghts to claim that Apple is a great cornerstone of everything. Wake up. They aint a saint. Just another well marketed business like Coca Cola.
 

icysmoke

Disciple
how would you differentiate between a hater and harsh critic?

Till the time thes the privacy practices are audited by independent third party audit firms and a report is published, no one should believe their claims whether it's advertised or otherwise
Sir you were going on and on about how all this ranting will lead to nothing. Based on Apple’s response, it seems all the ranting on various forums by people “who had something to hide “ has worked.
I use an iphone and a mba too. But defending incredibly ludicrous moves by a company , needs a different level of fanboyism. I am glad there are apple users who didn’t defend this move saying a company is entitled to do anything for business. Absolutely glad that there is resistance to companies letting govts in on our phones and our homes.
 

bhp91

Disciple
As for mskandi, I would like to ask - are you really that dense? He has been banned for heaping scorn on Apple products? If that is true, I am laughing at the mods for doing something so as to speak, is nothing short of stupidity.
Wait a sec. He got banned because of this thread?
Can mods please confirm this?
 

bhp91

Disciple
Apparently the negativity was too much, plus unwanted trolling.
Did not look like any deliberate trolling but whatever. I was just curious because in general, I'm not a fan of the use of ban hammer lightly. Again, i am not saying anything about mskandi because idk the exact reason for ban, so yeah ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
 
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