Query on Domestic LPG Gas and Related Safety Measures

[rootyme]

Please follow the numbering while answering my queries.

1. The official rule reads that the LPG Cylinders must be weighed by the delivery guy right in front of the consumer before delivery. But that never happens.

Not once has any delivery boy weighed the Gas Cylinder before delivering it to our home. Even if you personally visit the godown, there is no concept of weighing the gas cylinders. How exactly does one know if he/she is not getting less gas than what he/she should be?

2. 7/10 or 8/10 times, depending on who you ask, when you expose the cylinder valve and drop a little water in there, you will find air bubbles popping up from the black tip. That is the gas leaking, the gas you paid for. An adequately sealed gas cylinder does not have any suck gas leaks. I have personally seen quite a few cylinders that emanate no smell with the valve exposed. No bubbles with water either. My questions -

i) Why does the Gas Distributor/Delivery Boy say that some leak is normal and that is to be expected on all gas cylinders? They refuse to listen when I complain that there should ideally be no such leaks. If leaks are normal, how come I come across the ones that don't?​

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ii) Domestic Gas Cylinders, post their refilling, travel with with a removable plastic seal covering their valves. How effective is that plastic seal in stopping the gas already leaking from within the valve?​

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iii) If the plastic seal is not 100% effective in containing what's leaking, are we not losing a ton of gas before they reach our homes?​

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iv) The Delivery guy usually just opens up the plastic, pretends to smell and check the cylinder, and says everything's alright. When we demonstrate the leak with water, he pushes his vehicle keys against the valve and again pretends that the leaks are fixed. They are not. The leak never stops. He then leaves saying some degree of leak is normal.​

3. Why is the Gas Cylinder refilling process still so un-optimised? It is a non-renewable resource so how are the Gas Manufacturers/Distributors okay with letting so much go to waste? Why is everything so vague when it should be transparent? Why are rules not followed?

4. What are some essential safety measures that everyone should know about using Domestic LPG?

5. What is the best Gas Distribution company in India?

6. If delivery charges are mandatory, why don't the Distributors charge that during booking? Why does the delivery boy explicitly ask the consumers for delivery charges?

 

[kiran6680]

2. 7/10 or 8/10 times, depending on who you ask, when you expose the cylinder valve and drop a little water in there, you will find air bubbles popping up from the black tip.

Can you post a video of the bubbles ? How long have you seen the bubbles popping up i e. do they stop after a while?

I am asking because there might be other explanations of the bubbles, depending on how it looks. Especially if there is no smell.

 

[blr_p]

1. Weigh it yourself with a luggage scale. One I use, was bought over nine years back and works. I don't really bother as much these days and mostly use it to guess when the cylinder will run out.

3. Govt monopoly I guess though that might be different in other states with bigger private players

4. - A regulator is a must. Prevents backflow which causes a cylinder blast.

- The rubber tubing is recommended to be changed every 5 years. Indane used to have a booklet of best practices some time back.

- Try to keep cylinders outdoors in a sheltered space otherwise ensure windows are always open for adequate ventilation.

- Try not to store full cylinders. Meaning order when its about to run out. Halves the intensity of a blast if all fails

5. I've been giving the guy Rs.5 (yes five rupee coin) for delivery since forever

 

[rootyme]

Can you post a video of the bubbles ?

I inserted a little polythene into the valve and put the cap back on. And the bubbles have somehow reduced by 95% this morning. Strange!

explanations of the bubbles, depending on how it looks. Especially if there is no smell.

They are always accompanied by the smell of LPG.

How long have you seen the bubbles popping up i e. do they stop after a while?

I have never seen them stop. But this time they did as after I did what I did.

Try not to store full cylinders. Meaning order when its about to run out. Halves the intensity of a blast if all fails

We always store a full backup cylinder right next to where we sleep. Kitchen is literally next to the bedroom. Should we stop doing this?

I've been giving the guy Rs.5 (yes five rupee coin) for delivery since forever

Strange! We are always expected to pay 25 or even 50 at times. They don't leave happy if you pay 20.

 

[blr_p]

We always store a full backup cylinder right next to where we sleep. Kitchen is literally next to the bedroom. Should we stop doing this?

Are they in the same room because mine are on either side of the stove.

I'm saying have one full and another empty. When you think the cylinder will run out then order a new one say a week in advance. If you keep a record you will have an idea when it will run out assuming your usage remains the same.

Instead of having a full spare one in addition to the one you're using.

Strange! We are always expected to pay 25 or even 50 at times. They don't leave happy if you pay 20.

May vary depending on where you live

 

[rootyme]

If you keep a record you will have an idea when it will run out assuming your usage remains the same.

Yeah I've been maintaining a record for around a year now. Never before that. And yes, it's probably better to defer the orders.

May vary depending on where you live

We don't live too far away from the Distributor's office. It's a small city. The demand for extra charges is not within the rules btw. YouTube is filled with videos like this:

 

[blr_p]

We don't live too far away from the Distributor's office. It's a small city. The demand for extra charges is not within the rules btw. YouTube is filled with videos like this:

I've never had this problem. Last video the guy said delivery is supposed to be free if within 15km. Thing is if others pay then they expect it.

 

[kiran6680]

I inserted a little polythene into the valve and put the cap back on. And the bubbles have somehow reduced by 95% this morning. Strange!

I think you are playing with fire. Literally. The short term and long term impact of these polythene pieces on the safety is unknown. I'm afraid the polythene might have had zero or negative effect on leakage, but the water test might not be catching this type of leakage.

I couldn't find the water test for LPG leakage anywhere. There is a soap bubble test, and a water test in which one end of a pipe is dipped in a water bucket. Though smell is a dead giveaway.

I was once dealing with an extremely unhelpful LPG distributor in Bangalore - who took months to give me an LPG connection until I got help from an influential person. I called that distributor for a merely suspected LPG leak, and they sent a guy to check in 10 minutes - there was no leak.

 

[rootyme]

I think you are playing with fire. Literally. The short term and long term impact of these polythene pieces on the safety is unknown. I'm afraid the polythene might have had zero or negative effect on leakage

Just removed the polythene. Not risking anything.

Though smell is a dead giveaway.

Yeah. Thankfully it has stopped now.

I was once dealing with an extremely unhelpful LPG distributor in Bangalore - who took months to give me an LPG connection until I got help from an influential person. I called that distributor for a merely suspected LPG leak, and they sent a guy to check in 10 minutes - there was no leak.

They usually don't care.

I couldn't find the water test for LPG leakage anywhere.

@kiran6680 @blr_p Here is the video.

https://imgur.com/a/ouhwST5

That's water in the valve. And those bubbles are still coming up. The smell is there.

 

[blr_p]

Interesting test. I've not done that before or seem anyone advise it. How do you get the water out?

Not comfortable fiddling with valve when there is water on top. Supposed to be one way only I suppose.

 

[rootyme]

How do you get the water out?

By blowing air into it. :3

 

[rootyme]

Here is the video.

https://imgur.com/a/ouhwST5

Should I be concerned or just brush it off?

What are inside those bubbles? Just air?

 

[Tobikage]

Should I be concerned or just brush it off?

Been there.

I called up the gas company and was advised to keep the cylinder in an openly vented.

Had to keep it on the terrace overnight.

Put on a bunch or wet towels on it to keep it cool and just let the gas leak.

It was replaced the next day FOC without any booking.

Just air?

Escaping gas....

The bubbling may eventually stop or reduce once enough gas has escaped leading to a drop in pressure however minute it may be.

 

[rootyme]

@Tobikage I think you are from a different India altogether. I need you to read this.

I have brought this cylinder myself from the distributor's godown that's not too far away from where I live. Almost 4 out of 5 cylinders in the godown have this sort of leakage when you check, in the godown itself. The delivery guys there resist if you open the seals of multiple cylinders to check, saying - "Why would you break the seals when the cylinders are going to delivered to other consumers?"

They are basically saying that getting a leakage free cylinder is sort of a lottery. If you break the seal of one, you take that and go home.

I called up the gas company and was advised to keep the cylinder in an openly vented.

I have personally visited the distributors and they say such leaks to be ignored. They don't care!

It was replaced the next day FOC without any booking.

Interestingly, I decided to visit the godown myself because the delivery guy kept turning down the request for replacement while dumping similarly leaking cylinders almost every single time. When we last requested for replacement, the guy kept delaying for multiple weeks. This was frustrating.

The bubbling may eventually stop or reduce once enough gas has escaped leading to a drop in pressure however minute it may be.

It's been five days now and the bubbles are still coming up at the same intensity. I just checked once again. The smell is strong as ever.

 

[anmolbhard004]

@Tobikage I think you are from a different India altogether. I need you to read this.

I have brought this cylinder myself from the distributor's godown that's not too far away from where I live. Almost 4 out of 5 cylinders in the godown have this sort of leakage when you check, in the godown itself. The delivery guys there resist if you open the seals of multiple cylinders to check, saying - "Why would you break the seals when the cylinders are going to delivered to other consumers?"

They are basically saying that getting a leakage free cylinder is sort of a lottery. If you break the seal of one, you take that and go home.


I have personally visited the distributors and they say such leaks to be ignored. They don't care!


Interestingly, I decided to visit the godown myself because the delivery guy kept turning down the request for replacement while dumping similarly leaking cylinders almost every single time. When we last requested for replacement, the guy kept delaying for multiple weeks. This was frustrating.


It's been five days now and the bubbles are still coming up at the same intensity. I just checked once again. The smell is strong as ever.

the distributor is bound to replace the cylinder, I think your distributor is solely to be blamed for this lodge a complain against him.

I once had a leak and it was replaced within 3 hrs of informing the distributor [Indane].

also try changing your vendor .

 

[rootyme]

I once had a leak and it was replaced within 3 hrs of informing the distributor [Indane].

That's crazy. Our distributor is Hindustan Petroleum. I think I am going to file a complaint with their central office.

Btw, should I also file a RTI with Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas? This is not acceptable right? If not me, then somebody else would be having these delivered to them.

The amount of gas going to waste over this must be insane. The refilling procedure has to be more stringent, right?

 

[anmolbhard004]

That's crazy. Our distributor is Hindustan Petroleum. I think I am going to file a complaint with their central office.

Btw, should I also file a RTI with Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas? This is not acceptable right? If not me, then somebody else would be having these delivered to them.

The amount of gas going to waste over this must be insane. The refilling procedure has to be more stringent, right?

yes lodge a complain.
RTI will be too much just complain at CPGRAMS portal.

 

[TEUser2K1]

Can this be an issue because of rubber washer / visor on cylinder, there are lot of videos on yt about solving this, for eg.:

Leakage obviously will cause cylinder weight to come down gradually.

 

[skoka123]

Demands at the time of delivery used to be a problem for me too until I complained on the official HP website. This was in 2019. See below how it was resolved.

The earlier complaint is in the below 2 screenshots. This is back from 2007.

On both occasions the HP dealer had to come to my place to apologize and refund the money personally. In fact, after my first complaint, my consumer number has a suffix (V.I.P) next to it so the delivery guys do not create any trouble.
Despite the VIP suffix, I had a similar issue in 2019. The HP website does not accept complaints anymore. I had to raise the complaint CGPRAMS. The details are in the below screenshots.

Response received from CGPRAMS - As a result the HP Official came along with the Owner of the Distribution Agency to my residence to assure me of the steps taken to stop this issue in the future.

Lesson: Complain through official channels and you will get the results. Do not complain to the distributor.

 

[blr_p]

Can this be an issue because of rubber washer / visor on cylinder, there are lot of videos on yt about solving this, for eg.:

Leakage obviously will cause cylinder weight to come down gradually.

The test would be to see if you get a leak after changing the washer.

Usually the washer is changed if a leak is detected after the regulator is fixed. So it's to get an airtight connection with the regulator.

Meaning even if the valve is leaking slightly as the water shows that fixing the regulator on top acts to cap the leak.

I don't think anything can be done about leaky valves. That's what the white cap on top is for. When it's removed sometimes there is a popping sound meaning
a) the cap worked to prevent a leak
b) the valve was leaking

The cap prevents valve leakage which will inevitably happen with use.