Graphic Cards So how many of you USE MLAA?

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comp@ddict

comp@ddict

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Yeah you heard it, unlike PissX it works on every game, heck it works while Im watching a movie or just browsing.

And past month I've been tinkering with it, and here's what I noticed:

1. MLAA works on 99% games with zero compatibility issues
2. Performance doesnt break down
3. Image Quality matches 2-4x FSAA for half the performance penalty.

Nowadays I use MLAA everywhere, I just keep it on and wow, the performance of games has actually been better, while IQ definitely seems sharper, and since all my in-game AA settings are off, my performance is great.

So how many of you guys using this? Can't believe AMD doesnt advertise this more, it's completely opposite nVidia, they advertise a limited tool like it's the best drug in the world, and here's something amazing at AMD's working flawlessly across the board.

(nVidia fanboi's stay clear of this thread, dont stuff physx is better than MLAA garbage here, already done that in another forum and MLAA was in favour).
 
^^

[TIPS] What is the Morphological Anti-Aliasing (MLAA)? - 3D Tech News, Pixel Hacking, Data Visualization and 3D Programming - Geeks3D.com

comp@ddict said:
Yeah you heard it, unlike PissX it works on every game, heck it works while Im watching a movie or just browsing.
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comp@ddict said:
(nVidia fanboi's stay clear of this thread, dont stuff physx is better than MLAA garbage here, already done that in another forum and MLAA was in favour).
Click to expand...
What's the connection to PhysX here? They are different tech for different purposes without any connection whatsoever. And yeah, people had issues with text becoming blurry and window edges hazy because AMD decided to switch MLAA on by default in one of their driver releases.

MLAA is a post processing step which is applied on the image without any context of whats in it. In game AA does not usually work that way. The context will help in applying AA in a sensible manner that improves the image. MLAA results will vary depending on the case. So yes, you cannot claim that MLAA always works to produce desirable results.
 
Suppose I get say 50 FPS at the moment, how many FPS will MLAA take down? 10%, 20%, how much?
 
I use MLAA almost in all the games, it makes tangible difference in games which doesn't have AA enabled (POP, GeOW, NFSHP etc.)... Although I've had issues with MLAA screwing up text in FF4, unwanted image smoothing in FastPictureViewer and sometimes even "melting window" effect on Catalyst Control Center app interface. I use Radeon-Pro for automatic game profiles and have enabled MLAA for games only. Also, even in games, MLAA can cause smaller text to be rendered bit weirdly. Not a very big deal, but the effect is very noticeable. Otherwise, yes, I think MLAA is quite handy and works enough well to be called a successful implementation.

@rite: I'm not sure if there has been a proper review done on how much performance hit MLAA takes, you know, numbers to numbers comparison. But I think it should be less than even 5%. Since it's just a post-processing filter, it shouldn't effect the game performance like other AA filters.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
^^

[TIPS] What is the Morphological Anti-Aliasing (MLAA)? - 3D Tech News, Pixel Hacking, Data Visualization and 3D Programming - Geeks3D.com
What's the connection to PhysX here? They are different tech for different purposes without any connection whatsoever. And yeah, people had issues with text becoming blurry and window edges hazy because AMD decided to switch MLAA on by default in one of their driver releases.

MLAA is a post processing step which is applied on the image without any context of whats in it. In game AA does not usually work that way. The context will help in applying AA in a sensible manner that improves the image. MLAA results will vary depending on the case. So yes, you cannot claim that MLAA always works to produce desirable results.
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Connection, people suggest nVIdia card for Physx sometimes, I would suggest an AMD card for MLAA, like competiting features. One grossly limited, other, well you know, open to all games.
 
I doubt they can really use MLAA as a major feature. Many schools of thought still find it cumbersome, the way it is post-applied. Not really hits out on FPS, cause most of the work is done on the frame. At times users complained that it puts in a blurriness.
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Seriously I beg to differ, if there is a different pathway which is universally applicable/compatible, and which provides near 8x FSAA IQ at half the frame-rate cost, I would say that's a ravishing feature.
 
To all those so excited, my experience = NO!

Crysis 1 Patch 1.2

1440x900

Everything Very High

Motion Blur Max

AF 16x

no AA, Avg FPS = 65

4x MLAA, Avg FPS = 48

I don't think it is anywhere close to worth it. This is like a 30% reduction in FPS when the game was running perfectly and on perfect hardware. For people with 6800 or 5700 it will probably be like a 40-50% dec if it decreased mine by 30%.
 
Results of testing with Crysis Warhead ( DX10, Enthusiast)

AA = 0x, AA Mode = NA

DirectX 10 ENTHUSIAST 3X @ Map: ambush @ 0 1680 x 1050 AA 0xx

==> Framerate [ Min: 52.67 Max: 108.31 Avg: 88.41 ]
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AA = 4x, AA Mode = MSAA

DirectX 10 ENTHUSIAST 3X @ Map: ambush @ 0 1680 x 1050 AA 4xx

==> Framerate [ Min: 55.58 Max: 99.35 Avg: 79.84 ]
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AA = 4x, AA Mode = SSAA

DirectX 10 ENTHUSIAST 1X @ Map: ambush @ 0 1680 x 1050 AA 4xx

==> Framerate [ Min: 42.04 Max: 70.00 Avg: 55.10 ]
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AA = 4x, AA Mode = MLAA

DirectX 10 ENTHUSIAST 3X @ Map: ambush @ 0 1680 x 1050 AA 0xx

==> Framerate [ Min: 48.28 Max: 65.60 Avg: 58.49 ]
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In Game 4x MSAA = 9.69% Hit

In Game 4x SSAA = 37.68%

Catalyst 4x MLAA = 33.84% Hit



Results of Testing with Farcry 2 (DX10, Ultra High)

AA = 0x, AA Mode = NA

[Min: 118.74 Max: 260.71 Avg: 170.30]
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AA = 4x, AA Mode = MSAA

[Min: 115.31 Max: 253.91 Avg: 166.50]
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AA = 8x, AA Mode = MSAA

[Min: 114.97 Max: 230.31 Avg: 153.69]
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AA = 4x, AA Mode = SSAA

[Min: 84.74 Max: 183.10 Avg: 122.78]
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AA = 8x, AA Mode = SSAA = 0x

[Min: 82.43 Max: 164.53 Avg: 111.41]
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AA = 4x, AA Mode = MLAA

[Min: 73.66 Max: 125.22 Avg: 93.71]
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In Game 4x MSAA = 2.23% Hit

In Game 8x MSAA = 9.75% Hit

In Game 4x SSAA = 27.90% Hit

In Game 8x SSAA = 34.58% Hit

Catalyst 4x MLAA = 44.97% Hit



Results of Testing with Just Cause 2 (DX10, Very High)

AA = 0x, AA Mode = NA

Avg: 135.17

AA = 4x, AA Mode = MSAA

Avg: 117.08

AA = 8x, AA Mode = MSAA

Avg: 107.07

AA = 4x, AA Mode = SSAA

Avg: 86.59

AA = 8x, AA Mode = SSAA

Avg: 79.91

AA = 4x, AA Mode = MLAA

Avg: 76.48



In Game 4x MSAA = 13.38% Hit

In Game 8x MSAA = 20.79% Hit

In Game 4x SSAA = 35.94% Hit

In Game 8x SSAA = 40.88% Hit

Catalyst 4x MLAA = 43.42% Hit

An observation I would like to make here... I liked the result of MLAA in Just Cause 2. While the hit is still massive compared to In Game AA, the GPU's were actually running 2~3 deg cooler with MLAA. The resultant output is also not similar to In Game AA. Its different and suited the game well.
 
comp@ddict said:
Seriously I beg to differ, if there is a different pathway which is universally applicable/compatible, and which provides near 8x FSAA IQ at half the frame-rate cost, I would say that's a ravishing feature.
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You do understand it is not happening within the pipe-line and is an end level scrub. Plus see the results the above 2x users got.

What FPS change you getting on your system with MLAA on..? It is a decent enhancement, but nothing as big as you are making it to be. :)
 
Lord Nemesis said:
Results of testing with Crysis Warhead ( DX10, Enthusiast)

AA = 0x, MLAA = 0x

AA = 4x, MLAA = 0x

AA = 0x, MLAA = 4x

In Game 4x AA = 9.69% Hit

MLAA 4x = 33.84% Hit
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God didnt I mention, benchmark this:

1. with SSAA enabled(sorry wherever I mentioned FSAA it's supposed to be SSAA) from drivers

2. with MLAA enabled(and ofcourse SSAA disabled)

SSAA-Supersampling AA

MLAA provides near 4x SSAA quality(not FSAA, FSAA is lower IQ than SSAA)

EDIT:

LordNemisis, since you have already tested with in-game AA, please can you also do the SSAA benchies and add them to the compliation? I mean I dont have those games installed, I have only crysis 2 right now and team-fortress 2(and no fraps, i wont buy it, waiting for audio support on MSI Afterburner vid recording)

EDIT #2: This is what got me going with MLAA

AMD’s primary claim was that Morphological AA (MLAA) would not incur as severe a penalty hit as Supersampling AA. We have found that this is true. Even at the lowest 2X Adaptive Supersampling AA quality setting MLAA still performed faster on both the Radeon HD 6870 and Radeon HD 6850. This is good news as it brings similar to 2X AD SSAA image quality at less of a performance hit.
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http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/11/01/amd_morphological_aa_performance_iq_review/1

Image Quality Summary

Is it worth it from an image quality standpoint? Personally, I believe so. We have shown that it can produce better image quality on polygon edges than even 8X MSAA. However, we have also seen that sometimes it doesn’t work well on everything. For the most part though, while gaming, and usually you are moving very fast through a game, it offers at least the same quality as 8X MSAA. It also offers near Supersampling image quality at much less of a performance hit. It also applies itself to shader aliasing, to help improve image quality. In none of our testing did it seem like it was blurring textures. It seemed to only be blurring edges of everything, which to some might give the appearance of things turning out blurry.

Certainly, this feature is not for everyone. Thankfully, it is optional. You can chose to use it, or not. We however love the fact that it is there, and gives gamers an option to reduce aliasing in games that do not support antialiasing natively. There are many older DX9 games that use deferred rendering and do not support AA, in those cases, this will help. It is just one more tool in the arsenal of improving the gameplay experience.
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The Bottom Line

Morphological AA is the wave of the future. We believe that image quality enhancements of this nature are going to be the key to providing a better gameplay experience. The GPUs of today are powerful beasts, and it is no surprise to anyone that there is unused potential lurking within. Some are trying to expose that potential by forcing proprietary methods of using the GPU for accelerating physics in games.
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EDIT #3:

Was using MLAA + 8xSSAA + 16x SmoothVision AF

God there was such a tremendous boost in visual quality, although performance dropped to mid 20s, I switched off SSAA and back to 60fps v-sync cap, but I have left Smooth Vision at 4x AF, I'm starting to like this a lot.
 
comp@ddict said:
Yeah you heard it, unlike PissX it works on every game, heck it works while Im watching a movie or just browsing.

And past month I've been tinkering with it, and here's what I noticed:

1. MLAA works on 99% games with zero compatibility issues
2. Performance doesnt break down
3. Image Quality matches 2-4x FSAA for half the performance penalty.

Nowadays I use MLAA everywhere, I just keep it on and wow, the performance of games has actually been better, while IQ definitely seems sharper, and since all my in-game AA settings are off, my performance is great.

So how many of you guys using this? Can't believe AMD doesnt advertise this more, it's completely opposite nVidia, they advertise a limited tool like it's the best drug in the world, and here's something amazing at AMD's working flawlessly across the board.

(nVidia fanboi's stay clear of this thread, dont stuff physx is better than MLAA garbage here, already done that in another forum and MLAA was in favour).
Click to expand...
AMD doesn`t advertise this because its not AMD exclusive(Roots of MLAA starts from INTEL) ,MLAA is been around for quite some time, hell its even used in console games.

Intel`s MLAA was slow because its CPU based, PS3 exclusive GOD of war III used CELL based MLAA.

Of course nvidia fanboYZ need not worry coz similar post-proc AA named FXAA is coming up, unlike MLAA this applied before UI is presented so it doesn’t blur the text , and this makes it game engine dependent.

Another Post-proc~deferred-Rendering AA technique is SRAA.

Both of them will be in action in Battlefield 3.
 
For guy's who are interested, I have added SSAA results as well to the mix. I have also merged all the results into a single post.
 
comp@ddict said:
(nVidia fanboi's stay clear of this thread, dont stuff physx is better than MLAA garbage here, already done that in another forum and MLAA was in favour).
Click to expand...
LOLLZZZZ :rofl:

get your facts right mate.
You cant compare apples to oranges.
 
^^ Huh?! Comp@ddict is correct. Also, SSAA > MSAA > AAA afaik.

Actually Physx is only worth if you are running it on CUDA. Using just the CPU = Not worth the performance drop.
 
hellgate said:
LOLLZZZZ :rofl:

get your facts right mate.

You cant compare apples to oranges.
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your post didnt contribute anything useful

^^ Huh?! Comp@ddict is correct. Also, SSAA > MSAA > AAA afaik.
Click to expand...

yea, and MLAA sits right there, after 2x SSAA, so I think it's worth the performance drop.

Using just the CPU = Not worth the performance drop.
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exactly, no matter which, even the 6 core gulftown bows down before it.
 
1. There is no comparison between a feature like Physx and MLAA. Their purposes are different. Hardware Physx is an nVidia only feature. There is no chance of any AMD card getting it. MLAA is a feature that can be implemented by nVidia at any point of time.

2. If you look at my benchmarks you will notice that 4x MLAA is a much more hit than 4x/8x SSAA. Personally I would prefer the Intelligently applied In Game AA than the brute force approach of processing the entire rendered frame taken by MLAA. Of course there may be a few games where MLAA gives a different kind of look to a game that looks good, but in general MLAA is not worth the hit 30~40% hit it puts on a GPU.

3. The marketable feature for AMD is not MLAA, but the minimal performance hit that these GPU's incur to apply In Game AA. AMD has recently been very good at applying In Game AA with minimal cost.
 
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