Something is terribly wrong with India's Covid experts

red dragon

red dragon

Justiceforall
Skilled
I will try to keep it simple and non technical and then will launch attack on some celebrity Indian doctors.
1. As most of you know, most doctors practicing in India and claiming to be experts are suggesting single dose of vaccines to patients who was previously diagnosed with covid ( RT PCR) without anything to back up their claims except their " personal experience"
2. The same group of doctors are actively pushing for vaccination with daily official case load of more than 3L ( in reality it can be anything, 5L, 10L but definitely not less than 3 lakhs)
3. So basically they are pushing for vaccination in a population where the chance of asymptomatic infection is extremely high ( with 10 percent official positivity rate, the true positivity rate should be at least 5 times more if everyone in a locality could be tested)
So they are advocating vaccination in a population where every other person can in fact be already infected.
4. Why are they so desperate to turn significant amount of asymptomatic people to severe vaccine related complicated cases?

Now coming to celebrity doctors like Devi Shetty etc. Dr. Shetty's solution to an epidemic like this was to vaccinate 100 percent population. We watched this on some Indian channel in our office and were horrified to hear this and was shocked by the level of ignorance of the most prominent cardiac surgeon of India.
When will these morons understand that covid is not polio and it will never be eradicated.
There's another asshole cardiac surgeon from Kolkata spreading the same propaganda and actually helping to worsen the spike even more.
Unless the freaking doctors in India can't take out their heads out of their asses, this massacre will continue.
The illiterate PM is another major obstacle...he killed thousands with lockdown, now will kill even more with vaccines.
Look at Chile...they were the third fastest country to vaccinate ( rapid vaccination without trying to treat the sick agressively, break the transmission)...yet they are in a real bad shape.
Israel did the opposite. They reduce the caseload first, isolated the country THEN went for RAPID vaccination.
What's going on in India is complete madness. There are plenty of doctors who understand this most basic fundamentals of epidemiology and requesting people not to run for vaccines now, but you won't find them in media, which is ruled by asshole ignorant like Shetty ( if you dig hard enough, you can actually still find what kind of student he really was...and it still shows)

Added for clarity: Please continue to discuss but ultimately, take a consult of local doctor about covid and vaccinations presenting all medical history and necessary information
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Indians are living with cheapest addiction.
costs some 300-400 Rs per month.
And this biggest illiterate population expects solutions to all their problems will fall in front of them through their addiction.

TV and Whatsapp.

Let them live their life. They have chosen it with all their senses.
 
Last edited:
Sad thing is that the media is hopelessly bad, and we are very passionate about politics - each side blames the others without looking at the problem objectively or at best interests of people in mind. The rotten politics, rotten bureaucracy and our cultural values don't allow us to progress forwards or think rationally. And when you have leaders who are populist, this becomes a recipe for disaster in situations like these where quick and rational decisions are required. We're all morons, and will die like morons - even those who don't deserve one.
I, for one, cannot wait to emigrate out of this shithole, though even that option looks bleak looking at the travel restrictions on Indians :(
 
The time, energy and staff that is being spent currently on vaccination could have rather utilised on transportation of basic life necessities for saving patients like oxygen, more hospital beds, additional staff and so on. Multiple hospitals in Delhi are now having to move to high courts to get oxygen delivered for their patients because the same is not getting transported - either due to logistics or other states blocking the transportation. Two days back I was following a hearing on Twitter, where the Delhi High Court was requesting the Solicitor General to airlift the oxygen tankers for fast transportation or do anything to curb the transit time as Max Hospitals was running out of oxygen (3-4 hours left). And the reaction of the SG Tushar Mehta was basically that he wanted it to postpone the hearing tomorrow.

Accountability starts from the top and when the Home Minister & Pradhan Sevak are missing from their offices and attending rallies in West Bengal, it's difficult to steer the ship.

It pains me to see that the medical systems have basically collapsed and yet we have no plans on how to tackle this. Twitter has become the main place where people are asking for SOS assistance. Situation is indeed grim and will worsen over the next couple of weeks.
 
This situation shows, how worthless human life is in India. A disgusting, dirty looking PM with his home minister is still organising massive rallies while the health minister is preaching about social distancing.
Agreed didi is no saint, but she has cancelled few rallies AFAIK.
 
Thanks @red dragon the opening post is something the masses must know. thanks for putting you thoughs scross.

red dragon said:
This situation shows, how worthless human life is in India. A disgusting, dirty looking PM with his home minister is still organising massive rallies while the health minister is preaching about social distancing.
Agreed didi is no saint, but she has cancelled few rallies AFAIK.
Click to expand...

True, in politics no one is saint. but we are comparing her with a pure evil who just hate humanity.
It all modi's PR machine trying to paint did in bad light since last 7yrs... In ground the work she did is remarkable.
 
Didn't watch the video, but mass vaccination during a pandemic (of this proportion like in India) is suicidal!!
Nobody in India is talking about antibody dependent enhancement, convergent mutation etc.
I do know there is no evidence of the first yet in covid ( typically occurs dengue, hence no effective vaccines) but it can't be excluded altogether ( given the fact few people were reinfected with far worse outcome)
But these things are extremely crucial specially when you don't have typical mRNA or Sputnik like vaccines ( which can be altered pretty rapidly depending on predominant mutation variants)
Sorry for going technical again, but my language skills are pretty limited to explain these phenomena in non technical terms.
Anyone interested can google them ( pretty easy to understand)...you will easily understand how much damage a vaccine can do to an asymptomatic carrier.
I was invited to some online seminars organised by physicians in India. Had to leave mid way as people were more interested in ECMO ( less than 0.01 percent population in India can afford it) than find a way to **** the stupid AIIMS protocols and guidelines and discharge patients safely but much quicker.
When obtaining a trolley and nasal oxygen is getting impossible, these idiots are thinking about ECMO.
When we were actually doing ECMO last year, they thought we were overtreating. Now when the dung has hit the fans, they are trying to save 1 patient endangering 100.
Nobody talked about basics like triage, new ideas for treatment at home, reducing paperwork etc.
These people had more than a year to learn wartime techniques, almost none of them did anything. Instead of getting ready to treat patients in tents with nothing, they are talking nonsense about ECMO.
Instead of learning tracheostomy with a single scalpel blade ( without the handle) and help of a layman ( who will faint seeing blood everytime) they are busy complaining about non availability of beds.
These ****ers don't understand where will a sick person go when everybody including doctors complaining about what they don't have instead of using what they have efficiently and quickly. Times like these define what kind of a doctor you are. India has given you an education ( of great quality) for almost free and now is the time for payback. Don't be a chicken and whine about beds, treat the sick at home, in streets, in tents. It's very much possible.
If ebola could be treated in tents, covid is nothing, at least it doesn't make flesh melt.
 
Last edited:
red dragon said:
Nobody in India is talking about antibody dependent enhancement, convergent mutation etc.
Click to expand...
I think it's because of two reasons:
  • Lack of proactiveness/planning (especially when the country was told in January that we have overcome COVID-19 magically).
  • Massive data fudging.
Even though last year measures were not that significant, it were still enough to land two vaccines. And that's when the government switched off and became lazy. I remember last year how the AIIMS doctors were very vocal about the working conditions (less PPE kits and all) and that was when hell didn't even break loose. This year, every AIIMS doctor is practically silent.

 
Last year fortunately India didn't really see the real damage caused by this effing virus.
AIIMS has really disappointed me, not a single significant paper, no training ( I know of 2 persons there, who went through the WHO's gruelling training for wartime / warzones...they were never approached to teach others), ridiculous guidelines, extremely convoluted paperworks for even non critical patients.
I was proud to be an AIIMS product, not sure anymore.
 
Last edited:
red dragon said:
mass vaccination during a pandemic (of this proportion like in India) is suicidal!!
Click to expand...
It's not clear from your post, but..
Are you saying vaccine centres will become hubs for infection?
or
Vaccines have bad effects for asymptomatic people?

Also US and UK seem to have started vaccinations in the middle of their peak.
 
No, the explanation is very simple.
In a blind vaccine drive ( where you don't test the recipient with RT-PCR) in present situation ( 10-15% positive results) a huge number of infected asymptomatic people ( not tested) will be vaccinated.
Vaccinating an already infected patient is kind of stupid isn't it? Of course it can kill an asymptomatic patient ( unfortunately almost all vaccine related deaths are probably associated with this, no study has been done where an acutely infected person is given any vaccine, it's unethical and extremely dangerous...it's not rabies post exposure prophylaxis)
Clear now?
Of course they did, but not in areas where positivity rates were 10-15%!!
 
red dragon said:
No, the explanation is very simple.
In a blind vaccine drive ( where you don't test the recipient with RT-PCR) in present situation ( 10-15% positive results) a huge number of infected asymptomatic people ( not tested) will be vaccinated.
Vaccinating an already infected patient is kind of stupid isn't it? Of course it can kill an asymptomatic patient ( unfortunately almost all vaccine related deaths are probably associated with this, no study has been done where an acutely infected person is given any vaccine, it's unethical and extremely dangerous...it's not rabies post exposure prophylaxis)
Clear now?
Of course they did, but not in areas where positivity rates were 10-15%!!
Click to expand...

So u mean to say one needs to get the Rt-PCR before taking the vaccine ?
 
Crazy_Eddy said:
It's not clear from your post, but..
Are you saying vaccine centres will become hubs for infection?
or
Vaccines have bad effects for asymptomatic people?
Click to expand...
I had the same doubt reading this thread since I haven't been following the latest Covid developments closely.

red dragon said:
Vaccinating an already infected patient is kind of stupid isn't it? Of course it can kill an asymptomatic patient
Click to expand...
Is this an exaggeration or can you point me to some source/study for this?
Also, reinfections after being vaccinated is concerning but I was under the impression this is rare?

Sands said:
So u mean to say one needs to get the Rt-PCR before taking the vaccine ?
Click to expand...
If this is indeed a major concern then it's easy to get an RT PCR done (without much risk/exposure) before getting the vaccine. But I'd like to read more on this.
 
Crazy_Eddy said:
It's not clear from your post, but..
Are you saying vaccine centres will become hubs for infection?
Click to expand...

I went and checked out the vaccination centre in my village and people were queuing like they do for railway tickets. No way I am going and getting vaccinated in an environment like that. Queues in city hospitals are now spanning 2-3 floors for vaccinations.
Both these vaccines only provide base immunity 1-2 weeks after the second dose. So it makes no sense trying to get the first dose, when the disease is spreading rapidly, unless one can get it at a private place with no rush.
Also, the 4th phase trials which are supposed to track the efficacy in the real world when a vaccine is deployed at a large scale, will be impossible to do when such a large scale immunization is being done with no tracking whatsoever.
Maybe UK was able to do it but you know how difficult/nearly impossible it is in a country like India.
 
Then I guess this article also makes sense

www.timesnownews.com

RT-PCR test unable to detect mutant coronavirus variant; many new symptoms being seen: Doctor

New symptoms that are being seen in COVID-19 patients during the second wave include diarrhoea, abdominal pain, rashes, conjunctivitis, confusion state and brain fog.
www.timesnownews.com www.timesnownews.com

Also, anyone would like to comment - if waiting for better efficacy vaccines like Moderna one (which may or may not come to India) but Indian Government made option of importing them for Pvt. Companies who can afford it - see the news here. The reason for asking about the other vaccine being - if they have better efficacy and relatively low adverse events.
 
Last edited:
roofrider said:
Is this an exaggeration or can you point me to some source/study for this?
Also, reinfections after being vaccinated is concerning but I was under the impression this is rare?


If this is indeed a major concern then it's easy to get an RT PCR done (without much risk/exposure) before getting the vaccine. But I'd like to read more on this.
Click to expand...
Of course it's exaggeration! But all the vaccines in their websites clearly state that it's contraindicated in any person suffering from active covid 19 infection.
Without test how will you diagnose it? With a large population being asymptomatic and a positive results of 10 percent among the symptomatic, how can you guess how many are actually infected?
There will be no studies on the result of vaccination in RT PCR positive population. It's not only beyond all ethics but also EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.
I don't know how to make it clearer, so I'm giving up.
If a country is hell bent on self destruction, where most of the doctors have forgotten the about the absolute basics of immunisation, nothing/ nobody can save it.
But please stop complaining about non availability of beds/ oxygen etc. when you believe it's perfectly fine to vaccinate with daily reported case incidence is 3lakhs and more than 10 percent case positivity. Because you contributed to the case spike by being completely irrational.
 
red dragon said:
In an ideal world..yes, in a pandemic, hell no!!
Click to expand...

Bhai why are u so confused having read some of your post why can’t u clearly reply I asked u if one needs to get the pcr done you are replying IN AN IDEAL WORLD ...YES, IN PANDEMIC, HELL NO, Should one need the pcr before taking vaccine in pandemic or not ?
 
Back
Top