Vacuum cleaner for home

desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Let us know your views. Am in the hunt for a vacuum cleaner now.
Initial review : Super handy and compact (relation to wet and dry cleaners). I can fit the main unit in a travel backpack (less than 2 feet tall and less than 1.5 feet depth).
Suction is very powerful. Once the cleaning is done, open the canister, dump the dust/dirt into trash can. I have only tried the upholstery cleaner. Yet to try it in full (should do this weekend).
Heats up pretty quickly. Ran it for 10 minutes but did not try much as my inverter starts shouting (we have voltage issue at home) after 10 minutes.
 

adder

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Let us know your views. Am in the hunt for a vacuum cleaner now.
That philips model has good suction but is a whopping 80db of sound, since it has less air flow 37m/s(like eureka/forbes machines ), the motor will get hotter faster.
Not too mention the 1900watt of power which means it needs to be plugged with a 15a socket only.

I would look at Karcher or Bosch wet/dry extractors like GAS-12-25. All the german machines have universal mount and accessories. I have a Fein dustex 25 and its 67db of sound. Dust extractors like Bosch and Fein will have really long hose and power cord and built like tanks.
 

logistopath

Molar Police
Staff member
That philips model has good suction but is a whopping 80db of sound, since it has less air flow 37m/s(like eureka/forbes machines ), the motor will get hotter faster.
Not too mention the 1900watt of power which means it needs to be plugged with a 15a socket only.
That noise level and requirement of 15A socket are definitely a disadvantage. In fact, the bedrooms in my house have no 15A sockets.
I would look at Karcher or Bosch wet/dry extractors like GAS-12-25. All the german machines have universal mount and accessories. I have a Fein dustex 25 and its 67db of sound. Dust extractors like Bosch and Fein will have really long hose and power cord and built like tanks.
Thank you for the recommendations. Will check them out, although I am not interested in wet cleaning.
 

desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
That noise level and requirement of 15A socket are definitely a disadvantage. In fact, the bedrooms in my house have no 15A sockets.

Thank you for the recommendations. Will check them out, although I am not interested in wet cleaning.
I tried karcher wd3. Suction power was too low as the motor is a 1000W one. Check american micronic 21 ltr one if you are okay with wet. Do take a demo of one's having powerful suction like philips and american micronic and ones with lower suction like Karcher.

For 15A requirement, I have extender with 15A plug and cable thick enough and long enough to cover majority of house. Very cheap to get it setup and keeps cleaner on without tripping MTB.

First of all, what is your need for vacuum cleaning?
Wet ones are overrated and mop does lot better job. Also, check LG canister dry and if you can pay more, check Dyson ones.
 
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desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
That philips model has good suction but is a whopping 80db of sound, since it has less air flow 37m/s(like eureka/forbes machines ), the motor will get hotter faster.
I wonder how you came to this conclusion. Ran this one for 20 minutes plus today non stop and it did not cut off. This is very good amount of time as one would rarely keep it on for more than 30 minutes as it has to be moved around and plugged to different connection or move between rooms. Suggest you to give opinion only if you had solid first hand experience.
 

sriharsha_m

Well-Known Member
Adept
That noise level and requirement of 15A socket are definitely a disadvantage. In fact, the bedrooms in my house have no 15A sockets.

Thank you for the recommendations. Will check them out, although I am not interested in wet cleaning.
I think cordless vacuums and Robo Vacuums makes are more practical options these days.
Being an OCD guy, I had my fair share of vacuum cleaner purchases from a 20 year old BPL canister vacuum to Dyson V11, several Eureka Forbes, Karcher models in between.

The convenience of a cordless vacuum is undebatable.
When you really want to do a quick clean, trust me you would think twice to take the corded vacuum out, no matter how powerful it is.

I'd suggest a Dyson any day for OCD guys like me.
But even something like a Roidmi F8 or Deerma Vc20 is very good for their price range.
 

desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
I think cordless vacuums and Robo Vacuums makes are more practical options these days.
Being an OCD guy, I had my fair share of vacuum cleaner purchases from a 20 year old BPL canister vacuum to Dyson V11, several Eureka Forbes, Karcher models in between.

The convenience of a cordless vacuum is undebatable.
When you really want to do a quick clean, trust me you would think twice to take the corded vacuum out, no matter how powerful it is.

I'd suggest a Dyson any day for OCD guys like me.
But even something like a Roidmi F8 or Deerma Vc20 is very good for their price range.
If budget permits, these are to be preferred if it is purely for floor cleaning.

Indian homes get dust accumulation everywhere, especially on windows, cabinets etc. Robot cannot reach those spots and cordless ones are hassle to lift and clean. We end up brooming and then collect fallen dust using vacuum cleaner making it a tedious task.
 

sriharsha_m

Well-Known Member
Adept
If budget permits, these are to be preferred if it is purely for floor cleaning.

Indian homes get dust accumulation everywhere, especially on windows, cabinets etc. Robot cannot reach those spots and cordless ones are hassle to lift and clean. We end up brooming and then collect fallen dust using vacuum cleaner making it a tedious task.
It's the other way round, cordless ones are easy to reach everywhere, specially the areas close to ceiling or cleaning the fans.

The hose on the corded ones is the limiting factor as it's tethered to the base unit. Corded ones can only reach specific heights even with extension hoses and not beyond those. Cordless one are very flexible in this regard, even doubles up as car vacuum.

Robot Vacuums are ofcourse floor use only, but they reach nook and corners where neither corded/cordless vaccums could easily reach everyday. Say underneath the cots, underneath furniture, behind furniture etc.

Brooming is one of the reasons why dust gets accumulated everywhere in our homes. If one cuts down on brooming the difference is apparent.
 

desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
If I have to lift a 3kg-kg unit to clean overheat units/cabinets, that is a no-go for me. What makes it worse is the fact that the battery on these last maximum of 30 minutes(????) for medium use and even less for heavy use. Then I have to keep it aside to charge. I do not have to do any such thing for a corded one. I clean one room, unplug it and plug it in another room and that minute or two is enough for the temps to come down.

It is the suction capacity and battery life of cordless ones I was most concerned about. These two factors alone made me ignore cordless cleaners. A battery degrades over time or when not used for a long time. This is a major issue. This is not a problem with corded ones. Can stow it away for months without thinking of degradation. As the battery starts to degrade or reduce in capacity, suction power takes a hit. Also, the attachment options for corded ones are greater than those of corded ones. Add such attachment to cordless ones and the suction power (which is already low) becomes worse.

Did massive cleaning activity today and this is the longest I got. You can see the hose that I used to clean the corner area and it was super easy. There was absolutely no problem with reach.

I do love Dyson cordless ones but the cheaper ones are weak when it comes to suction and battery life is pretty piss poor. Even Dyson ones need to be operated regularly to have healthy battery life. I did not see the real need to spend 40k+ and use it even when not really needed to keep the battery healthy when I am getting all the necessary function in canister vacuum cleaners that costs 8k. For the money saved, I can get a powerful blower for 2k, a new washing machine, and a water purifier. I can even go with Philips PowerPro + Stanley blower + mini handheld battery-operated cleaner and save half the cost of a Dyson vacuum cleaner.



See, I do not deny that cordless ones are very good at the ease of use but they are not yet in a position to replace new generation corded vacuum cleaners for an all-round job and for long-term use. As long as they come with batteries that degrade when not in use, it will be a headache.
 

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adder

Well-Known Member
Skilled
I wonder how you came to this conclusion. Ran this one for 20 minutes plus today non stop and it did not cut off. This is very good amount of time as one would rarely keep it on for more than 30 minutes as it has to be moved around and plugged to different connection or move between rooms. Suggest you to give opinion only if you had solid first hand experience.
I have checked and used lot of vacuums, spending north of 25k for a corded one is not without research, when I purchased my machine I went to Bosch, Karcher, Fein, Hitachi, Makita, Skil, Black and decker/stanley demo centers/ warehouses all their India HQ are located in Bangalore, to get a first had know how on the sound,air flow and suction. I know for a fact that machines which have more suction at the cost of air flow gets hotter, there is a reason why Dust extractor machines cost a lot more they home vacuum, most of the models are sold in EU and they work in 6a sockets.
I am not denying you can run for 20mins non stop, fact of the matter is the Dust extractors are designed to perform in the most toughest conditions, they are physically larger and with ample ventilation for the motor unit exhausts, so they run cooler. They also have much larger dust collection volume. I have not emptied my Fein in 3 years now. Because it has the full 25l of space available for dust collection, with the primary M class filter still looking like new. Also all dust extractors mostly come with really long hoses and wire much longer then even the karcher yellow home grade models.
 

desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
I have checked and used lot of vacuums, spending north of 25k for a corded one is not without research, when I purchased my machine I went to Bosch, Karcher, Fein, Hitachi, Makita, Skil, Black and decker/stanley demo centers/ warehouses all their India HQ are located in Bangalore, to get a first had know how on the sound,air flow and suction. I know for a fact that machines which have more suction at the cost of air flow gets hotter, there is a reason why Dust extractor machines cost a lot more they home vacuum, most of the models are sold in EU and they work in 6a sockets.
I am not denying you can run for 20mins non stop, fact of the matter is the Dust extractors are designed to perform in the most toughest conditions, they are physically larger and with ample ventilation for the motor unit exhausts, so they run cooler. They also have much larger dust collection volume. I have not emptied my Fein in 3 years now. Because it has the full 25l of space available for dust collection, with the primary M class filter still looking like new. Also all dust extractors mostly come with really long hoses and wire much longer then even the karcher yellow home grade models.
My question is specific to Philips PowerPro. You may have used many and may have visited dozens of warehouses but generalizing that on the model you did not use is not ideal IMO. Not everyone needs a 21-litre mega cleaners or dust extractors. This also does not mean that compact ones are less efficient.

The Philips PowerPro received iF design award and here is their quote.

Compact yet generous, this vacuum cleaner presents a perfect reduction in size which through its clever design and well-resolved details absolutely maximizes the functionality. An ideal solution, not only while actively using the device, but just as much while storing.

I believe you have too much data at hand that is making things look more complex for you. Some things are to be measured in a simpler manner. A home is not 'the most challenging environment'. In my office, I see workplace cleaning folks use these bulky Bosch wet-n-dry industrial cleaners. Given the amount of space to cover and amount of usage each day, it is better to go for the ones that are built like a tank and those that are humongous. The need there is to clean thousands of sft week in week out. A home does not need this kind of cleaners. For home use, a product that attains a great balance between power, efficiency, ease of use/storage etc always trumps those that are mightly efficient and bulky.
 
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sriharsha_m

Well-Known Member
Adept
If I have to lift a 3kg-kg unit to clean overheat units/cabinets, that is a no-go for me. What makes it worse is the fact that the battery on these last maximum of 30 minutes(????) for medium use and even less for heavy use. Then I have to keep it aside to charge. I do not have to do any such thing for a corded one. I clean one room, unplug it and plug it in another room and that minute or two is enough for the temps to come down.

It is the suction capacity and battery life of cordless ones I was most concerned about. These two factors alone made me ignore cordless cleaners. A battery degrades over time or when not used for a long time. This is a major issue. This is not a problem with corded ones. Can stow it away for months without thinking of degradation. As the battery starts to degrade or reduce in capacity, suction power takes a hit. Also, the attachment options for corded ones are greater than those of corded ones. Add such attachment to cordless ones and the suction power (which is already low) becomes worse.

Did massive cleaning activity today and this is the longest I got. You can see the hose that I used to clean the corner area and it was super easy. There was absolutely no problem with reach.

I do love Dyson cordless ones but the cheaper ones are weak when it comes to suction and battery life is pretty piss poor. Even Dyson ones need to be operated regularly to have healthy battery life. I did not see the real need to spend 40k+ and use it even when not really needed to keep the battery healthy when I am getting all the necessary function in canister vacuum cleaners that costs 8k. For the money saved, I can get a powerful blower for 2k, a new washing machine, and a water purifier. I can even go with Philips PowerPro + Stanley blower + mini handheld battery-operated cleaner and save half the cost of a Dyson vacuum cleaner.



See, I do not deny that cordless ones are very good at the ease of use but they are not yet in a position to replace new generation corded vacuum cleaners for an all-round job and for long-term use. As long as they come with batteries that degrade when not in use, it will be a headache.
  • Don't know which 3Kg cordless vacuum you are referring to, but from my hands-on experience with several decent cordless ones.
    • Dyson V11 body, which I know is the heaviest of all Dyson models before it, weighs 1.8 Kgs. V7 or V8 easily weighs considerably less compared to V11 as the bin and battery capacity is almost half.
      IMG_20210417_232245.jpg
    • Roidmi F8 body weighs almost 1 to 1.2Kg.
    • Deerma VC20 body weighs less than a kilo.
    • The heaviest attachment on most of the cordless vacuums is the motorised brush, which won't be used for overhead cleaning anyways.
  • I for one have been religiously using vacuums every single day for over a decade now, there were hardly a couple of instances where the full run time surpassed an hour.
    • Most of the cordless vacuums last for at least half an hour, which is good enough for realistic household usage.
    • Not exactly an apples to apple comparison, but Dyson lasts over 75mins in Eco mode and 45mins in Medium and 8 mins in High.
      In my two years of ownership, I never needed or used high mode even once, as the suction in the rest of the modes is good enough.
  • Not sure which attachments you were referring to, but I feel the standard attachments are fairly the same regardless of corded/cordless.
    In fact, cordless ones come with additional motorised brushes, which most of the corded vacuums don't come with.

  • Regarding the reach, most Karcher vacuums come with even longer hoses and telescopic extension tubes, and they themselves are painful to operate at heights.
    Barely reaching out with a crevice tool is one thing and operating with ease regardless of the position is a whole another story.

  • Even the cheapest Dyson V7 has more than enough suction for regular household usage.
    They operate by agitating the dust on the floor/surface with the motorised tools and hence don't need a powerful suction at all.
    With a manual brush, which is fairly common on corded ones, they need brute suction force to lift the dust and hence powerful specs usually.

  • I've been using my V11 for 2 years now, daily usage for 1st year and occasional usage since switching to a Robo vacuum, I'm yet to see the degradation of battery life.
    It still gives 75+ mins on a single charge.

    This is the current backup on my V11 which was charged almost 2 months ago and barely used a couple of mins since then.

    IMG_20210418_000601.jpg

  • Even if the battery does go bad eventually, one is not throwing the unit away, isn't it? Battery replacements are there for a reason.
    Having said that I'm yet to see the need for battery replacement in a couple of various cordless vacuums in my circle.

  • Regarding the cost, yes they command a premium for what they offer and the no questions asked service that Dyson is famous for.

  • When it comes to price, I don't think that is a valid statement or comparison :), it's like saying for the cost of an iPhone one can buy a good 5G phone+Laptop+Tablet+DSLR etc.
    Unlike iPhone, Dyson doesn't charge 3x 4x for what it actually delivers ;)
I was in the same thought process, in fact, used similar arguments before switching to cordless.
Having used a Karcher water filter vacuum for 5 years, an 8-year-old Black & Decker VH780 for light usage, before switching to cordless,
The amount of practicality and convenience of cordless vacuums nullifies all the cons.

In a realistic household scenario, say one wanted to quickly clean a spot or quickly vacuum a room.
Once the initial rush is over, you'd really think twice before unwinding the cord, connect the hoses/attachments, reaching out to plug before starting to use it.
Also, once done, again remove all the attachments and store the unit back.
Trust me, you'd easily fall back to broom in such cases.

This is where cordless vacuums change the game, almost all cordless ones can be docked with a floor attachment and are always fully charged on the dock.
All you need is a quick run over the area and leave it back to the dock. In fact less time/effort than a broom.

I'm not saying Dyson is the best and everyone should go and buy a Dyson.
All I'm trying to say is that, gone are the days when the cons of cordless vacuums outweighed the pros, it's the other way around with the latest cordless vacuums, which make it a better purchase over a corded vacuum.
 

adder

Well-Known Member
Skilled
My question is specific to Philips PowerPro. You may have used many and may have visited dozens of warehouses but generalizing that on the model you did not use is not ideal IMO. Not everyone needs a 21-litre mega cleaners or dust extractors. This also does not mean that compact ones are less efficient.

The Philips PowerPro received iF design award and here is their quote.
[I believe you have too much data at hand that is making things look more complex for you. Some things are to be measured in a simpler manner. A home is not 'the most challenging environment'. In my office, I see workplace cleaning folks use these bulky Bosch wet-n-dry industrial cleaners. Given the amount of space to cover and amount of usage each day, it is better to go for the ones that are built like a tank and those that are humongous. The need there is to clean thousands of sft week in week out. A home does not need this kind of cleaners. For home use, a product that attains a great balance between power, efficiency, ease of use/storage etc always trumps those that are mightly efficient and bulky.
If you are talking about motor heat, I can guarantee that a high air flow machine will run cooler vs a model with lower air flow, that's just logic. You can design 2 machines with the same exact motor but different blade design and chamber/housing. Which can result in a machine with super suction or you can get a machine with super blowing capacity but poor suction, or you can get a balanced machine. Having owned and demoed lots of home vacs, they run hotter are noiser for the given suction/flow. Even in dust extractors a machine with lower air flow would run hotter compared to machine with higher air flow.

Are dust extractors bulky , yes but not by much compared to a house hold vac, all dust extractors are taller, while one may rarely use the wet feature, the huge tank capacity means you will only need to empty it after several months to years depending on your dust situation. Because they sort of have a universal mounts and accessories, you can add extra lengths of hose, some models even have a anti static hoses where the dust doesn't like to stick to the hose walls.
Whats wrong with having good build quality for home use, they will last for decades, home use ones are all bling not exactly built tough.
 

desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
  • Don't know which 3Kg cordless vacuum you are referring to, but from my hands-on experience with several decent cordless ones.
    • Dyson V11 body, which I know is the heaviest of all Dyson models before it, weighs 1.8 Kgs. V7 or V8 easily weighs considerably less compared to V11 as the bin and battery capacity is almost half.
    • Roidmi F8 body weighs almost 1 to 1.2Kg.
    • Deerma VC20 body weighs less than a kilo.
V11 costs north of 40k. Deerma VC20 has too many complaints about service and QC. Roidmi comes with puny suction power and I would rather use a broomstick than use something like this. Why to even pay 12k or something when I can get a handheld cleaner for 3k-4k. Something like Dyson V11 is good for simple cleaning and show-off. For most households where a lot of dust accumulates, it simply cannot match the power of a corded canister vacuum cleaner like PowerPro or LG's new cleaners. It simply cannot. If I have to buy 2nd-grade and 3rd-grade cleaners from Roidmi etc to have super low weight, I would rather buy a broomstick that can reach every single corner and it only weighs 200 grams or so. There is no need to charge it at all, no need to plug it into anything. Less weight does not mean better, isn't it?

Then there is the problem with capacity. My kids tore huge thermocol board to bits and in one shot, I cleaned it up and dumped the waste from cannister into the bit. That would not fit a cordless cleaner. There are many such instances that goes against these micro cleaners. They are good for things that fall in that small sweet spot. Anything outside of that, they are not useful. Especially given the premium price these cleaners command.
    • The heaviest attachment on most of the cordless vacuums is the motorised brush, which won't be used for overhead cleaning anyways.
Even with a 2.0kg-2.5kg weight (with minimal accessories), lifting it up to do heavy dusting is not the ideal way. Overhead cleaning in such way negates the need for vacuum cleaner. Floor cleaning, yes, these things will beat corded ones. But when compared over all cleaning needs, a cordless is just not the way. Not yet.

  • I for one have been religiously using vacuums every single day for over a decade now, there were hardly a couple of instances where the full run time surpassed an hour.
    • Most of the cordless vacuums last for at least half an hour, which is good enough for realistic household usage.
    • Not exactly an apples to apple comparison, but Dyson lasts over 75mins in Eco mode and 45mins in Medium and 8 mins in High.
      In my two years of ownership, I never needed or used high mode even once, as the suction in the rest of the modes is good enough.
  • Not sure which attachments you were referring to, but I feel the standard attachments are fairly the same regardless of corded/cordless.
    In fact, cordless ones come with additional motorised brushes, which most of the corded vacuums don't come with.
Last year, I was away for 10 months. Do this twice and there is an extremely high chance of battery damage. You can say that the battery can be replaced. But why should I pay 40k+ and have battery concern when I can pay 1/4th that price and have no such concern. Do you know that many vacuum cleaner brands are not having enough service centers and they ask you to courier parts to their service hub? Why should I even take this hassle? Whatever the brand is, they are Lithium-Ion batteries and batteries degrade over time. Forget about 2 years, 5 years down the line you have a dead battery, and what happens when the battery is not in stock anymore? What do you do? Buy another one for 50k?

  • Regarding the reach, most Karcher vacuums come with even longer hoses and telescopic extension tubes, and they themselves are painful to operate at heights.
    Barely reaching out with a crevice tool is one thing and operating with ease regardless of the position is a whole another story.

  • Even the cheapest Dyson V7 has more than enough suction for regular household usage.
    They operate by agitating the dust on the floor/surface with the motorised tools and hence don't need a powerful suction at all.
    With a manual brush, which is fairly common on corded ones, they need brute suction force to lift the dust and hence powerful specs usually.

  • I've been using my V11 for 2 years now, daily usage for 1st year and occasional usage since switching to a Robo vacuum, I'm yet to see the degradation of battery life.
    It still gives 75+ mins on a single charge.

    This is the current backup on my V11 which was charged almost 2 months ago and barely used a couple of mins since then.
If you mean VC 4i from Karcher, the story is more or less the same. Costs 30k and has average to above average reviews. No service centres in India, very weak motor/suction. You may feel that powerful suction is not required for you. For a house that gets lot of dust, having powerful motor is a big advantage. Why should I pay 30k+ and have less of everything (suction power, reach, accessories, service options) when I can pay 1/4th of that and have better features and better motor/suction?
  • Regarding the cost, yes they command a premium for what they offer and the no questions asked service that Dyson is famous for.

  • When it comes to price, I don't think that is a valid statement or comparison :), it's like saying for the cost of an iPhone one can buy a good 5G phone+Laptop+Tablet+DSLR etc.
    Unlike iPhone, Dyson doesn't charge 3x 4x for what it actually delivers ;)
Even if you bring in this iPhone logic, for a normal person, a good Android phone for 30k can save a lot of money and bring more features to him/her. Anyways, iPhones, like cordless cleaners are not the best of the bunch when it comes to all-round performance and value for money. In the case of vacuum cleaners, products like Philips PowerPro are one of the best one can get and costs under 8k now. Where is 40k and where is 7k? I am getting lot more features for 7k than for 40k and I have a brand that is as reliable as Dyson in electrical equipment and is as trustworthy as Dyson. So, this is not an iPhones vs other phones situation. This is a proper 'why pay so much when I can get more for less' situation.
I was in the same thought process, in fact, used similar arguments before switching to cordless.
Having used a Karcher water filter vacuum for 5 years, an 8-year-old Black & Decker VH780 for light usage, before switching to cordless,
The amount of practicality and convenience of cordless vacuums nullifies all the cons.

In a realistic household scenario, say one wanted to quickly clean a spot or quickly vacuum a room.
Let us be practical. In a realistic household scenario, if I have to clean a particular spot, I would use a broom or sponge towel. This is the fastest way. Why even bring a vacuum cleaner (be it cordless or corded or handheld). This is the preferred method. We would get WTF look from mom and wife if we start pulling vacuum cleaners for everything. Also, most households have maids who do normal floor cleaning and the majority of them do a good job. This further negates the need for cordless cleaner. Even for self-cleaning, I would rather have a Robot vacuum cleaner for floor cleaning if I do not want to put any effort. Let it turn on at night and by morning, the floor is clean. So, why do I even have to think of a cordless cleaner when I can have a maid/robot cleaner for the floor and a powerful vacuum cleaner for deep cleaning. Still, I would end up spending less than what I have to spend for something like Dyson V11.
Once the initial rush is over, you'd really think twice before unwinding the cord, connect the hoses/attachments, reaching out to plug before starting to use it.
Also, once done, again remove all the attachments and store the unit back.
Trust me, you'd easily fall back to broom in such cases.

This is where cordless vacuums change the game, almost all cordless ones can be docked with a floor attachment and are always fully charged on the dock.
All you need is a quick run over the area and leave it back to the dock. In fact less time/effort than a broom.

I'm not saying Dyson is the best and everyone should go and buy a Dyson.
All I'm trying to say is that, gone are the days when the cons of cordless vacuums outweighed the pros, it's the other way around with the latest cordless vacuums, which make it a better purchase over a corded vacuum.
Yes, cordless ones are changing the game but like I said, a cordless cleaner cannot replace a proper vacuum cleaner for proper/deep cleaning. They can at the max be ideal purchase for floor/carpet cleaning. They have to shed more weight to make it easy to lift and hold for extended time. They have to get better battery tech (probably solid-state batteries may make them more reliable). But more importantly, they have to get into mainstream price range. 40k+ for a cleaner with such low suction power and backup/capacity keeps them out of reach for majority.

In short, for all-round usage and for deep clean, they are an absolute waste of money. Also, Dyson is the only brand that has reliable cordless cleaners and they charge too much of logo tax (should I say Dyson tax?). Others are 'me too' models for buyers to say 'hey, look. I have this cute little cleaner that is not really working out for me'.
If you are talking about motor heat, I can guarantee that a high air flow machine will run cooler vs a model with lower air flow, that's just logic. You can design 2 machines with the same exact motor but different blade design and chamber/housing. Which can result in a machine with super suction or you can get a machine with super blowing capacity but poor suction, or you can get a balanced machine. Having owned and demoed lots of home vacs, they run hotter are noiser for the given suction/flow. Even in dust extractors a machine with lower air flow would run hotter compared to machine with higher air flow.
And yet mine has run without cutting out. As I said, looks like you are using too much paper logic and industrial usage requirements and applying that logic for 'domestic' cleaners like the Philips PowerPro. This one is noisy, but it is doing its job really well and does not overheat. I do not mind this and this is one of the best-selling models in vacuum cleaners.
Are dust extractors bulky , yes but not by much compared to a house hold vac, all dust extractors are taller, while one may rarely use the wet feature, the huge tank capacity means you will only need to empty it after several months to years depending on your dust situation. Because they sort of have a universal mounts and accessories, you can add extra lengths of hose, some models even have a anti static hoses where the dust doesn't like to stick to the hose walls.
Whats wrong with having good build quality for home use, they will last for decades, home use ones are all bling not exactly built tough.
New-gen ones are pretty well built and are enough for home use. Just because a war tank is super strong does not mean that I buy a tank to drive to an office. After the cleaning session, I open the canister, dump the waste into the bin and close it. This hardly takes a minute or two to do. Why should even think of dragging a mega cleaner through the house just because I can forget about dumping dirt out for years. I would rather take one that is easier to pull around than take one that is hard to drag around every single minute of the cleaning session. The standard set of accessories that comes with majority of home cleaners are good enough. And why would we even think of anti static hoses and other stuff for home usage? Who cares if some dust sticks to hose inside wall?

This is why one does not buy industrial cleaners for home use. This is why one should not take industrial cleaning knowledge and rub it on domestic users. Home is home, warehouse is warehouse. One meant for warehouse must stay in warehouse, one meant for home use must stay in home.

The new generation canister cleaners like Philips PowerPro provide best of both worlds (traditional aluminum drum cleaners, compact and easy to carry cordless ones). These are as powerful and in many cases more powerful than cleaners like WD3 (Karcher) and yet they are easy to move around in the house and easy to store after a cleaning session. Not having a bag to store dirt makes them super easy to clean and re-use.
 
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sriharsha_m

Well-Known Member
Adept
V11 costs north of 40k. Deerma VC20 has too many complaints about service and QC. Roidmi comes with puny suction power and I would rather use a broomstick than use something like this. Why to even pay 12k or something when I can get a handheld cleaner for 3k-4k. Something like Dyson V11 is good for simple cleaning and show-off. For most households where a lot of dust accumulates, it simply cannot match the power of a corded canister vacuum cleaner like PowerPro or LG's new cleaners. It simply cannot. If I have to buy 2nd-grade and 3rd-grade cleaners from Roidmi etc to have super low weight, I would rather buy a broomstick that can reach every single corner and it only weighs 200 grams or so. There is no need to charge it at all, no need to plug it into anything. Less weight does not mean better, isn't it?

Then there is the problem with capacity. My kids tore huge thermocol board to bits and in one shot, I cleaned it up and dumped the waste from cannister into the bit. That would not fit a cordless cleaner. There are many such instances that goes against these micro cleaners. They are good for things that fall in that small sweet spot. Anything outside of that, they are not useful. Especially given the premium price these cleaners command.
Please come out of the bubble and take a home demo of these before quoting polar opposite statements, without even using them :)
Please get a free home demo, compare it with the corded one you want to compare and then please re-read what you have posted above once you have actually used experienced them in real-time, not hearsay.

I rest my case.
 
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adder

Well-Known Member
Skilled
And yet mine has run without cutting out. As I said, looks like you are using too much paper logic and industrial usage requirements and applying that logic for 'domestic' cleaners like the Philips PowerPro. This one is noisy, but it is doing its job really well and does not overheat. I do not mind this and this is one of the best-selling models in vacuum cleaners.
If your runs without cutting out great, fact is compared to a high air flow machine it will run hotter, overtime as dust accumulates the motor cannot dispute the heat as it was when new and motor coil will loose there varnish, These are facts from my own experience.

New-gen ones are pretty well built and are enough for home use. Just because a war tank is super strong does not mean that I buy a tank to drive to an office.
If the plastic is good enough for you great. Some people are fine with Maruti build, others prefer the german/sweden build both are good enough for getting from A to B. But doesn't change the fact that the other one is better built.

After the cleaning session, I open the canister, dump the waste into the bin and close it. This hardly takes a minute or two to do. Why should even think of dragging a mega cleaner through the house just because I can forget about dumping dirt out for years. I would rather take one that is easier to pull around than take one that is hard to drag around every single minute of the cleaning session. The standard set of accessories that comes with majority of home cleaners are good enough. And why would we even think of anti static hoses and other stuff for home usage? Who cares if some dust sticks to hose inside wall?
Again doesn't change the fact that there are other machines out there that doesn't require frequent requirement to dump the dust. Piss poor mega cleaners will drag, mine for example a gentle pull is enough to get it rolling freely, I have to make sure that it doesn't go bang some other furniture because the wheels are that smooth.
Anti static hose also doesn't cause the shock that you feel sometimes due to static charge build up on the hose, find it very useful when cleaning stuff like PC cabinet.

The new generation canister cleaners like Philips PowerPro provide best of both worlds (traditional aluminum drum cleaners, compact and easy to carry cordless ones). These are as powerful and in many cases more powerful than cleaners like WD3 (Karcher) and yet they are easy to move around in the house and easy to store after a cleaning session. Not having a bag to store dirt makes them super easy to clean and re-use.
Well like I said piss poor machine will be a drag but not well built machines, I don't even feel my machine when I pull the hose, its that smooth.

That said on the topic of cordless vs corded, No matter how small a corded one is a cordless machine is still much more handy. What ever devices I have in the house which have a cordless version and a corded version, I use majority of the time the cordless version, unless the device in question has a poor battery run time or poor performance. Example in my case corded/cordless dremel, drill,

For air flow related stuff I use a cordless 18v Bosch blower version for blowing dust above the car or on a motherboard/gfx, use a corded version for cleaning the windows, window mesh etc where air flow matters, or for the most stubbern dust like cleaning a car cabin filter, disc brake pads etc, I power on the 3hp twin cylinder air compressor.

Will probably get one of those 60v leaf blowers, to replace my corded blower.
 

desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Please come out of the bubble and take a home demo of these before quoting polar opposite statements, without even using them :)
Please get a free home demo, compare it with the corded one you want to compare and then please re-read what you have posted above once you have actually used experienced them in real-time, not hearsay.

I rest my case.
Took a demo at Croma before deciding. Peace.
If your runs without cutting out great, fact is compared to a high air flow machine it will run hotter, overtime as dust accumulates the motor cannot dispute the heat as it was when new and motor coil will loose there varnish, These are facts from my own experience.


If the plastic is good enough for you great. Some people are fine with Maruti build, others prefer the german/sweden build both are good enough for getting from A to B. But doesn't change the fact that the other one is better built.


Again doesn't change the fact that there are other machines out there that doesn't require frequent requirement to dump the dust. Piss poor mega cleaners will drag, mine for example a gentle pull is enough to get it rolling freely, I have to make sure that it doesn't go bang some other furniture because the wheels are that smooth.
Anti static hose also doesn't cause the shock that you feel sometimes due to static charge build up on the hose, find it very useful when cleaning stuff like PC cabinet.


Well like I said piss poor machine will be a drag but not well built machines, I don't even feel my machine when I pull the hose, its that smooth.

That said on the topic of cordless vs corded, No matter how small a corded one is a cordless machine is still much more handy. What ever devices I have in the house which have a cordless version and a corded version, I use majority of the time the cordless version, unless the device in question has a poor battery run time or poor performance. Example in my case corded/cordless dremel, drill,

For air flow related stuff I use a cordless 18v Bosch blower version for blowing dust above the car or on a motherboard/gfx, use a corded version for cleaning the windows, window mesh etc where air flow matters, or for the most stubbern dust like cleaning a car cabin filter, disc brake pads etc, I power on the 3hp twin cylinder air compressor.

Will probably get one of those 60v leaf blowers, to replace my corded blower.
Saying this again. I have not faced any of the issues that you 'assume' and you never used these. Philips gave clear instruction on how to keep the dust free and have unrestricted sir flow. So, stop assuming stuff and come out of fantasy world that only the industrial cleaners are usable.
For blower, I myself am getting Stanley corded handheld blower. Now don't start on gyaan on what a good industrial blower is and how home use ones are Maruti. Story with vacuum and needs are different. Corded ones cost 2k and cordless ones are 9k and above. I do not see a need for myself to pay 5 times and I have points that cover every corner of house and portico.

The moment you compared something like Philips that got iF design award with Maruti, I understood that you are completely biased and blinded. You be happy with your tanks.

Just remember one thing. Suggestions are supposed to be based on buyer requirement, should not be based on your personal bias and your own need. Peace!
 
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t3chg33k

Well-Known Member
Adept
Took a demo at Croma before deciding. Peace.

Saying this again. I have not faced any of the issues that you 'assume' and you never used these. Philips gave clear instruction on how to keep the dust free and have unrestricted sir flow. So, stop assuming stuff and come out of fantasy world that only the industrial cleaners are usable.
For blower, I myself am getting Stanley corded handheld blower. Now don't start on gyaan on what a good industrial blower is and how home use ones are Maruti. Story with vacuum and needs are different. Corded ones cost 2k and cordless ones are 9k and above. I do not see a need for myself to pay 5 times and I have points that cover every corner of house and portico.

The moment you compared something like Philips that got iF design award with Maruti, I understood that you are completely biased and blinded. You be happy with your tanks.

Just remember one thing. Suggestions are supposed to be based on buyer requirement, should not be based on your personal bias and your own need. Peace!
I had also done a fair bit of research last year and went with the Philips PowerPro having got it for less than 8k. Dyson would offer a lot of convenience for sure but spending 5-6 times that of a normal vacuum cleaner with a disposable battery is quite upmarket for most Indian buyers and not worth it.
 

adder

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Took a demo at Croma before deciding. Peace.

Saying this again. I have not faced any of the issues that you 'assume' and you never used these. Philips gave clear instruction on how to keep the dust free and have unrestricted sir flow. So, stop assuming stuff and come out of fantasy world that only the industrial cleaners are usable.
For blower, I myself am getting Stanley corded handheld blower. Now don't start on gyaan on what a good industrial blower is and how home use ones are Maruti. Story with vacuum and needs are different. Corded ones cost 2k and cordless ones are 9k and above. I do not see a need for myself to pay 5 times and I have points that cover every corner of house and portico.

The moment you compared something like Philips that got iF design award with Maruti, I understood that you are completely biased and blinded. You be happy with your tanks.

Just remember one thing. Suggestions are supposed to be based on buyer requirement, should not be based on your personal bias and your own need. Peace!
I only highlighted the pros and cons of a machine with low air flow and the fact that it needs a 16A socket and the fact that it will be loud, that too for some other member. I only responded to your post because you quoted me.

Lol the fact that you think a product that got some design award makes you think thats its best out there. So many products will keep getting awards but there will be atleast 100 or more products that would beat it on every parameter, bar the price.
A swift or a baleno may have got multiple awards but it still a tin can with poor safety.
Its because of some consumers that are companies okay with planned obsolescence. In most companies just small changes do the design or the part is what differentiates it from their consumer line to Professional model.
When consumers demand better built products, the industry will change to the better of the consumers.

Like I said you may be fine with build quality and other drawbacks that I have said but those drawbacks are still facts, you get what you pay for. Just be happy with your purchase.

As far as blowers I already have a made in china Skil blower and a made in India Bosch blower. I prefer the Skil blower because its quieter, the made in india bosch blower as poor plastic mould finish , which makes it very high pitched whine compared to my old now stolen made in germany bosch blower.

Stanley products are also made in china but have poor spares parts support and this is in bangalore where the HQ of stanley is for india region.
 

desiibond

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Lol the fact that you think a product that got some design award makes you think thats its best out there. So many products will keep getting awards but there will be atleast 100 or more products that would beat it on every parameter, bar the price.
A swift or a baleno may have got multiple awards but it still a tin can with poor safety.
Its because of some consumers that are companies okay with planned obsolescence. In most companies just small changes do the design or the part is what differentiates it from their consumer line to Professional model.
When consumers demand better built products, the industry will change to the better of the consumers.
Wow. So, you talk so much about German engineering and yet you belittle iF design award that was originally created to highlight German design and has been one of the oldest and most prestigious awards to win. There is a limit to being biased. You sir are blinded by your bias.

Our reputation as one of the oldest truly independent design institutions in the world rests on our integrity, which clearly sets us apart from our competitors. Since 1953, iF e.V. has followed six guiding principles:

  • To identify, support and promote good design
  • To raise awareness of design among the public and the role it plays in our lives
  • To help companies integrate design into their long-term strategies
  • To safeguard the role of professional designer and boost awareness for this job profile
  • To effect social change through design
  • To support talented young people and create a public platform for young designers

The iF Opening Story​

1953: Germany was still struggling to overcome the impact of the Second World War, at home and abroad. Six years after the British occupying forces selected Hannover as a venue for trade fairs, efforts were made to complement the fair with an institution that would foster and support the “formal design of industrial products” in Germany.

The Hannover Messegesellschaft was inspired by the ideas of the visionary entrepreneur Philip Rosenthal, who also played a key role in the Federation of German Industry (BDI), where he was committed to bringing together the worlds of culture and business. This concept was also adopted for the foundation of the new institution. Together with the Messegesellschaft and the Federation of German Industry, Rosenthal created this unique institution: iF e.V.

This was the start of a symbol of design excellence that is recognized to this day – the iF logo.

The aim was to draw attention to particularly well-designed industrial products. In doing so, they wanted to communicate the importance of design and all it can achieve: for users, for brands and for societies. A new image for German products began to take shape. Fitting then that the resulting association was first known as 'Die gute Industrieform e.V.' (Good Industrial Form). The name Industrie Forum (or iF for short) came later.

If you still believe that this is just another award, there is no point in having this discussion with you as you just want to prove that you are right and that makes your input totally worthless. Have a good day and be happy with your antique tanks.

This quote is from Bosch (source: https://www.bosch-home.com/events/ifa2019/ifa2019-awards)
Bosch reaffirmed its credentials with a line of innovative products at the world-renowned iF Design Award, with the accent line | carbon black* appliance range introduced at IFA 2018 prevailing in the Product category. Meanwhile, the VitaMaxx vacuum mixer and the Flexxo cordless vacuum cleaner also picked up awards. The iF Design Award is presented each year by the world’s oldest independent design institution, the iF International Forum Design GmbH in Hanover, Germany.

This quote is from Karcher (Source: https://www.kaercher.com/int/inside...formation/1042-kaercher-wins-four-awards.html)

No less than four Kärcher products were honoured with the iF Design Award 2018, which counts as one of the most prestigious design awards worldwide. Yet the competition was exceptional: The jurors had to award the coveted quality seal among 6,400 entries from 54 countries.

These are the two brands that you consider as among the best and they truly value iF design awards. If this cannot open your eyes, nothing will!

Like I said you may be fine with build quality and other drawbacks that I have said but those drawbacks are still facts, you get what you pay for. Just be happy with your purchase.
And as I said many times, you have not used this product and clearly, your so-called drawbacks are purely based on your assumptions and your bias towards old models.
 
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