What is right to repair and what if manufacturers have complete control? ?

msankadi

Well-Known Member
Adept

Hope governments around the world wake up before these greedy companies make repairability impossible. Apple is the leader in this but i dont expect customers will be able to make changes due to the size of the company trying to engage in anti-consumer, anti-competetive and anti-repair practices.

Hopefully governments can put an end to these shambolic claims of 'environmental companies' which try and make their devices as unrepairable as they possibly can.

Now I'm sure a lot of the apple folks here will be ready with their pitchfolks oh how come you say something against my beloved but guess what: for once i am hoping you can raise above your bias and see what they are doing.

I wouldn't mind if only apple did it as I can just ignore them but for some weird reason all the copycat companies take lead from apple and follow in their footsteps and start cheating us android folks with the same policies. I hope companies like Samsung and one plus continue to face stiff competition from Chinese manufacturers or Indian companies for that matter. Competition is the only thing that can save the environment and help consumers to continue and control the destiny of the devices they OWN, unless government(s) decides to intervene (hopefully)
 
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msankadi

Well-Known Member
Adept
Hey, we already have a thread for this:
Would request @mods to merge this to the pre-existing one.
This is not the same though. Environmental impact is just one facet of repairability, there are many other aspects. Similarly, repairability is just one facet of ewaste/environment there are many others.

So there is a connection on one point but both are completely different things
 

Sumi

Well-Known Member
Disciple
EU seems to have it already under control.


India will probably not implement anything similar very soon. I remember the Pulsar 200 fiasco where it suddenly got discontinued and there were no spare parts available for it at all after the intial stocks were sold out.
 

ashokbishnoi

Member
Recruit
EU seems to have it already under control.


India will probably not implement anything similar very soon. I remember the Pulsar 200 fiasco where it suddenly got discontinued and there were no spare parts available for it at all after the intial stocks were sold out.
EU is now at the forefront when it comes to urgent issues such as tech monopoly, consumer privacy, climate change, renewable energy, etc. Sadly we have leaders at the helm who are not even aware enough about these issues, let alone framing laws.
 

vivek.krishnan

If you cant see the green dot, I'm offline :P
Skilled
I hope companies like Samsung and one plus continue to face stiff competition from Chinese manufacturers

OnePlus is part of a Chinese conglomerate called BKK, which has Oppo, Vivo, iQOO, Vivo amongst its brands!
This is not the same though. Environmental impact is just one facet of repairability, there are many other aspects. Similarly, repairability is just one facet of ewaste/environment there are many others.

So there is a connection on one point but both are completely different things

More or less the same. I also feel its can be merged.

Anyways, lost trust on MKBHD when I realised he is more chummy with mfrs
 

AINDRASIS_GUPTA

Well-Known Member
Disciple
Techwiser did a brilliant video yesterday and I suggest everyone to check it out:

Pratik basically talks about how the Indian smartphone brands are in the race to reach market saturation as fast as possible. And that's why you get multiple companies:
  • Releasing multiple phones with the same specs (with minor changes here and there) creating unnecessary confusion.
  • Pushing the 5G monikor when the phone supports one/two 5G bands.
  • Releasing a 5G variant of a phone just 2/3 months after the release of the 4G variant.
All these lesser known practices are also directly leading to large amounts of environmental electronic wastes, along with removing chargers from the box & headphone jacks.
 

ashokbishnoi

Member
Recruit
Techwiser did a brilliant video yesterday and I suggest everyone to check it out:

Pratik basically talks about how the Indian smartphone brands are in the race to reach market saturation as fast as possible. And that's why you get multiple companies:
  • Releasing multiple phones with the same specs (with minor changes here and there) creating unnecessary confusion.
  • Pushing the 5G monikor when the phone supports one/two 5G bands.
  • Releasing a 5G variant of a phone just 2/3 months after the release of the 4G variant.
All these lesser known practices are also directly leading to large amounts of environmental electronic wastes, along with removing chargers from the box & headphone jacks.
A nice watch indeed...Thanks for it.
One more read - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...apple-wage-war-on-gadget-right-to-repair-laws

So, basically as if non-removable battery, hard to replace display, hard to access components, omitting 3.5mm jack, locked bootloader were not enough for these manufacturers, they have now got new ways to coerce people to buy new phones. Sadly, the computer systems which were more or less upgradeable are going the same route.

As the phones got powerful thanks to the ARM arch, I used to think in my college times in 2017 that maybe in future they would be equipped with a display output port with the ability to easily hook input output devices like keyboard,mouse etc. but alas here we are, even the laptops except the professional ranges are now built like consumer disposables.



Not just hardware, on the software part, the OS are also increasingly being designed with bloatware which are gonna make any system slow over a period of time.
Look at the fate of Windows 10 where users don't have control over as simple thing as updates which very often break things, install adware, change user preferences, etc. all the while Microsoft claims that it's empowering users which in actual is taking control of system away from users.
Even Android, just changing the UI every now and then which is most of the time done just for the sake of changing and marketing the next version as revolutionary.


In the end, the pertinent question is who is going to stop these practices?
a. Consumers - Most of them don't even know about these practices and unfortunately they don't wanna know as they don't care which is a win-win situation for these companies.
b. Companies - No expectations from them. Even if there are some initiatives like Samsung Upcycling, they are going to be scuttled by top management as they go against their profitability.

c. Governments - Yeah. We can hope as it's the governments that have to mediate when consumers as a group are not powerful to force companies to alter their practices..
The recent law which forces manufacturers to clearly mention the repairability scores of their devices in France is one such example.
The EU law, which is still in process, mandating universal power supplies for different devices is another welcoming step.

But, we need more laws worldwide that make it mandatory on the part of these companies to design devices that are easily repairable, use parts and connecting interfaces that are not proprietary, release
schematics to aid repairs by third parties, and so on.
 

AINDRASIS_GUPTA

Well-Known Member
Disciple
A nice watch indeed...Thanks for it.
One more read - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...apple-wage-war-on-gadget-right-to-repair-laws

So, basically as if non-removable battery, hard to replace display, hard to access components, omitting 3.5mm jack, locked bootloader were not enough for these manufacturers, they have now got new ways to coerce people to buy new phones. Sadly, the computer systems which were more or less upgradeable are going the same route.

As the phones got powerful thanks to the ARM arch, I used to think in my college times in 2017 that maybe in future they would be equipped with a display output port with the ability to easily hook input output devices like keyboard,mouse etc. but alas here we are, even the laptops except the professional ranges are now built like consumer disposables.



Not just hardware, on the software part, the OS are also increasingly being designed with bloatware which are gonna make any system slow over a period of time.
Look at the fate of Windows 10 where users don't have control over as simple thing as updates which very often break things, install adware, change user preferences, etc. all the while Microsoft claims that it's empowering users which in actual is taking control of system away from users.
Even Android, just changing the UI every now and then which is most of the time done just for the sake of changing and marketing the next version as revolutionary.


In the end, the pertinent question is who is going to stop these practices?
a. Consumers - Most of them don't even know about these practices and unfortunately they don't wanna know as they don't care which is a win-win situation for these companies.
b. Companies - No expectations from them. Even if there are some initiatives like Samsung Upcycling, they are going to be scuttled by top management as they go against their profitability.

c. Governments - Yeah. We can hope as it's the governments that have to mediate when consumers as a group are not powerful to force companies to alter their practices..
The recent law which forces manufacturers to clearly mention the repairability scores of their devices in France is one such example.
The EU law, which is still in process, mandating universal power supplies for different devices is another welcoming step.

But, we need more laws worldwide that make it mandatory on the part of these companies to design devices that are easily repairable, use parts and connecting interfaces that are not proprietary, release
schematics to aid repairs by third parties, and so on.
The Windows 10 updates are one of the worst kinds. For a company such as Microsoft releasing broken updates that brick systems is super pathetic and goes against the user control.

I remember when I first tried out Windows 10 back in 2018, the first thing I had to had to was to edit the registry to turn off auto-updates. This is because the default controls in the control panel were useless. Gone are the days when I simply used to turn off updates in control panel (talking about Windows 7).

I'm not sure you know this, but Xiaomi did tried to brick the A3 using the same tactics (updates) while 1+ did the same with their OP7 series phones!



So, prepare to see more examples such as this in the future.

I think the only way to solve this cluster crap is government intervention. But, knowing the Indian government and its penchant for consumer electronic taxes above environmental concerns, we'll simply run ourselves to the ground, with India becoming the world's largest dumping ground for e-wastes.
 

ashokbishnoi

Member
Recruit
But he did criticised Apple and Tesla right?
Sorry..I don't follow him..So, I can't say about that...vivek.krishnan might be able to respond better..
I was trying to simplify what vivek.krishnan meant to imply...

The Windows 10 updates are one of the worst kinds. For a company such as Microsoft releasing broken updates that brick systems is super pathetic and goes against the user control.

I remember when I first tried out Windows 10 back in 2018, the first thing I had to had to was to edit the registry to turn off auto-updates. This is because the default controls in the control panel were useless. Gone are the days when I simply used to turn off updates in control panel (talking about Windows 7).

I'm not sure you know this, but Xiaomi did tried to brick the A3 using the same tactics (updates) while 1+ did the same with their OP7 series phones!



So, prepare to see more examples such as this in the future.

I think the only way to solve this cluster crap is government intervention. But, knowing the Indian government and its penchant for consumer electronic taxes above environmental concerns, we'll simply run ourselves to the ground, with India becoming the world's largest dumping ground for e-wastes.

The way we have become dumping ground for ships, best epitomised by Alang, Gujarat which is the largest one in the world.
Maybe, impoverished African nations will also share the burden with us in becoming e-waste dumping hubs in the future.
 
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CompilingUsername

Member
Disciple
I mentioned it in the other thread, but the use of proprietary screws is maddening. A video game controller doesn't need anti theft screws. The only reason to have them is to prevent owners from repairing the item.
 
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