Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.
mib2_007 said:
see govt. works on the public sentiments, govt. is made on foolish hindu-muslim playing cards coz emotional sentiments works here. If Anna dies on fast riding on public sentiments, congress or any other party can easily forget to come to power for next 20 yrs.
Govt. caved in coz media and all was soo fascinated by him and played him like gandhi that they had to budge.
You or me can go, fast and die. No one will care coz we are not riding on public sentiments. Its politics, and time and again if not Hazare... his team members have shown political games playing in Arena.
Its in human nature for wanting to be popular, good causes just make us angels, Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela all admitted that though they wanted to reach their objectives, freedom and publics's welfar... what kept them motivated and keep going is the very thought that they are writing history, becoming popular and being loved by millions.
They may sound humble, but the very thought that motivated them is the insatiable greed and hunger to be popular.
Its not bad... its all good to have that hunger, but to portray someone as 'messiah' is no justification.
And no one is against anna if he had done the protests and keep doing his work, but 'pass this bill by 30th or I die' is what pissed of people. Its a disregard for the constitution, the very constitution we are proud of, that makes us Indian, that we have fought for so badly to frame and be secular... independent and with all the rights.
Nobody is questioning the good laws this will bring in our society, nor his intentions.. but when it tries to get politically motivated, it gets dangerous.
All people you mentioned in the post have achieved something significant for their nation.
I really doubt whether you are me as well are even qualified to question the motives of likes of Mother Teresa. And Mandela achieved great things for his nation, but his actions and beliefs, his call for certain actions by people did cause significant loss of life through social / ethnic violence in SA. Nobody is perfect.
They are are regarded highly because they achieved something for the betterment of their society, country and world.
And when the fear of possible public reaction and its consequences in next election makes government do something, you need to understand how grand the effect of all this is and could be. When you think government had to act because they are afraid of coming into power again, it shows exactly why this was successful.
When people has to fear the government, there is something fundamentally wrong with that country. When its other way around, its a better sign of things to come.
And it was never "pass this till 30th or die" It was pass it till 30th or be ready for stronger agitation. None of this disregarded the constitution. It actually utilised the constitutional rights given to the people to actually achieve something. Or should I say use it to head towards right direction. Nothing is achieved yet. It is yet to be done, but first step is taken. Its entirely upto the parliament to actually do something that they have promised yesterday.
In my book there has been no real massiah in the human history ever. It is simply not possible if you go by the actual concept of massiah. Unless you have a system or a large group of people who act for the benefit of society, its always difficult for one man to do anything.
They reason Hazare was successful is because of the support he got. And he had no support of the large masses, he wouldnt have been effective. Even Ramdev has a cult following and received tremendous media attention. Why do you think the media attention quickly wavered away from him? And same did not happen this time around? Why? because this time it had larger support form everyone. Not just media. There were channels and reporters who were actually specialising in the new ways to slam him and his movement on TV
So just media frenzy alone was not responsible. It always had. Even in our independence struggle, media played a big role. Why do you think Lokmanya Tilak and many other risked their life daily to print underground newspapers and spreading their messages through few legit news papers back in a day? Media always plays a role.
Coming to something you posted earlier. The law already has provision to punish someone if he offers bribe to demand +ve result in his favour. An honest employee can report such person and that person can be arrested. Its still the duty of the government employee to refuse such bribe. Why? because they are sitting in a position of making sure they do their job honestly. They are in a position of authority. And so its their duty to not accept bribe even if its offered.
If bribe is asked and then given, then only the government employee will suffer because of the same reason. He abused his position of authority, the onus is on him to maintain the integrity of his position. If thats too much to ask, he has no business being a public servant.
chiron said:
I am taking a position against the movement because of its fascist nature. And if you have any illusion about the a-team being any different from any of the political parties then listen to Kiran Bedi's sloganeering. Coz after all its emotion and intolerance that always moves people rather than logic and empathy. Thats why members of the "civil society" can continue indulging in corruption as in mib2_007's example all the while being outraged at the govt for being corrupt. The difference between Gandhi and Hazare is simply vision... he has to be credited with getting the nation's interest in this issue but taking his advice on resolving it is turning out to be a terrible idea.
I guess the one thing we all agree on is that the govt is responsible for this mess, first because of all the scams that provided the fuel and then being spineless enough to not take a stance and not having the self-respect of being the elected representatives of the people. The govt caved in coz it always plays votebank politics with the minorities and in this case its the disillusioned middle class they are bending over to.
If you think this is fascism, you really need to read up on it m8.
As far as Kiran bedi is concerned, she made a fool out of herself and got slammed by same media that was supporting Hazare before and after the incidents. It made little difference to the movement. A lot of mudslinging happened on the so called "A team" but not much stuck because the core idea and the main person who was backbone of the movement was squeaky clean.
And the bold part, that thinking is actually leaning towards fascism. That class is the major contributor to this country and forms the large portion of highly skilled, moderately skilled labour and is major financial and social contributor to this country.
If government bent over for them, I am glad as it proves we are not a fascist / dictatorial state.