BJP can do course correction.. Here it is..


bssunilreddy

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Mar 24, 2007
2,137
841
208
41
Nellore
plus.google.com
In this day and age no country will allow political asylums (especially for unskilled people) or illegal immigrants especially on mass scale for various reason more population means more people on social benefits, public transport will be stretched, basically any problems associated with over population and off course security issues.
Illegal aliens are voting for politicians where such politicians does not have the majority and this is why such politicians(Not BJP) object to many Acts which were being repealed or made new these days by the biggest democratic parilament of the world.
We dont know what kind of elements are lurking among such aliens living illegally.
I am not speaking about any NE aliens because they never caused any security issue to us.
Citizenship Act should clearly specify who are aliens or who aren't.
 
Last edited:

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
6,216
1,389
301
Yeah, the uneducated (not being able to produce picture perfect records and documents) and those-who-cannot-manage have no place in our utopic country!

For NRC Assam following are acceptable
- original NRC of 1951
- electoral rolls up to 24 March midnight
- land or tenancy record
- citizenship cert or permanent cert
- refugee registration cert
- passport
- LIC
- ration card
- any govt issued license cert
- govt/employment service cert
- bank or post office accounts
- birth cert
- board university education cert
- court records of processes

How many of us are worried we do not have such documents ?
Post automatically merged:

I also dont get why NRC is such a big deal.
There are two groups here

NE where i'm told the people said their reps said NE would be protected from CAB but then went ahead and voted for it any way to appease Delhi. So there must have been incentives attached. So these reps betrayed the trust of the people. CAB nullifies the Assam accords by extending the cut off date from Mar 1971 all the way up to 2014 end.

The opposition parties.They want to remind the govt that just because they have 303 it does not mean they have absolute power. What cannot be done legally will be taken to the street. And here they can demonstrate protests across the country in 13 cities. None of their arguments presented can withstand scrutiny so it's a show of force.


Agree the govt lost control of the narrative. The opposition has hijacked it.
 
Last edited:

chiron

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Feb 8, 2006
1,569
481
172
I don't see any reason to discuss NRC or CAB. The move we still need to be protesting is demonetization. It came before but we forget.
Post automatically merged:

It was the most effective thing the modi govt did, not pointless crap like swacch bharat bullshit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Party Monger

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
May 10, 2009
2,634
1,292
253
For NRC Assam following are acceptable
- original NRC of 1951
- electoral rolls up to 24 March midnight
- land or tenancy record
- citizenship cert or permanent cert
- refugee registration cert
- passport
- LIC
- ration card
- any govt issued license cert
- govt/employment service cert
- bank or post office accounts
- birth cert
- board university education cert
- court records of processes

How many of us are worried we do not have such documents ?

2 reasons why I am against NRC.

a) It is a waste of money at the time when the economy isn't doing good and the government coffers are getting empty day by day. There are so many better initiatives, this government can spend that money on instead.

b) No belief in the competency of this government to conduct a fair, well implemented plan which doesn't trouble the common man like me, based on how they handled demonetization and cases like the one mentioned in this article.


About CAB/CAA, even if the law doesn't pertain to/or will cause any harm to legal Muslim citizens of India, I am morally against a law which isn't secular in nature. What is the use of a law which discriminates on providing refuge based on the religion of a person. Do you know how many Germans defected to US during World War or Russians during Cold War. They weren't judged on their nationality but rather on their usefulness as prospective citizens of the country and that should be the only criteria. What if tomorrow, a brilliant Muslim scientist wants to take asylum in India. Should he be said no to just because he is a Muslim.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ssslayer

dpandey

Well-Known Member
Adept
Jul 11, 2010
284
196
81
Bangalore
What if tomorrow, a brilliant Muslim scientist wants to take asylum in India. Should he be said no to just because he is a Muslim.
Like this brilliant scientist?


No thanks.

Do you know how many Germans defected to US during World War or Russians during Cold War. They weren't judged on their nationality but rather on their usefulness as prospective citizens of the country and that should be the only criteria.
The jewish immigration has been a mixed bag. A religious test (Anglo Saxon - Yes, Jewish - No) would have saved the US from a lot of future problems.

CAA is the right thing to do. As a country that has been the target of islamic violence for centuries, it is our moral duty to help others in the same situation.

Muslim opposition to india trying to help minorities is disgusting but predictable. I hope govt and people stay firm and do the right thing.
 
Last edited:

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
6,216
1,389
301
2 reasons why I am against NRC.

a) It is a waste of money at the time when the economy isn't doing good and the government coffers are getting empty day by day. There are so many better initiatives, this government can spend that money on instead.

b) No belief in the competency of this government to conduct a fair, well implemented plan which doesn't trouble the common man like me, based on how they handled demonetization and cases like the one mentioned in this article.
Fair, look at the companies that stand to benefit as a result of such a scheme. This govt wants to do a country wide NRC just like the previous was hell bent on aadhar

What is the reason to do this on a country wide basis ? Assam fought for it in the 80s so let them have it. Nobody else asked for it.

They have yet to discuss it so remains to be seen how things pan out.

About CAB/CAA, even if the law doesn't pertain to/or will cause any harm to legal Muslim citizens of India, I am morally against a law which isn't secular in nature. What is the use of a law which discriminates on providing refuge based on the religion of a person. Do you know how many Germans defected to US during World War or Russians during Cold War. They weren't judged on their nationality but rather on their usefulness as prospective citizens of the country and that should be the only criteria. What if tomorrow, a brilliant Muslim scientist wants to take asylum in India. Should he be said no to just because he is a Muslim.
The govt has said they would review such cases on an individual basis. We did not deny citizenship to Tasleema Nasreen. Rather she did not apply for Indian citizenship because India does not recognise dual nationality. So she had already got Swedish citizenship and she would have had to surrender it to become an Indian citizen.

All CAA does is speed up the naturalisation process for these refugees from 11 years to 6 years. It does not preclude muslims from applying for citizenship, they'd have to wait the std 11 years. To avail of CAA specific conditions must be met to prove religious persecution.

in any case CAA is going to be challenged in the SC so we will learn more. I do not anticipate the SC striking it down from the little i have understood.


There are some other things i've discovered pertaining to Indain nationalism that surprise me

if you were born in India before 1950 you are a citizen. This continued until mid '87. Then they amended it to at least one parent should be of Indian descent. There were many Sri Lankan Tamils that came to India in the 80s and they had children so this was a way to address that issue.

So a nationalism that was soil based became blood based over night. German & Japanese nationalism is blood based.

A further amendment was made in 2004 when the UPA came to power.

They decided that to be an Indian citizen BOTH parents now need to be of Indian descent.

I am at a complete loss as to why this requirement was made as i don't think other countries are this strict.

As a result if an Indian marries a foreigner hence forth their children can never be Indian citizens. PIO, OCI yes but nothing more.

Or is there a provision if they live for 11 years then they can be naturalised. This then means we have a tiered system where some are not full citizens.

Had such a rule been in force prior to 2004 both Rahul Gandhi & his sister would not qualify.

Its relatively easier to become a citizen in the west than in India (!)
 
Last edited:

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
May 10, 2009
2,634
1,292
253
Like this brilliant scientist?


No thanks.
Just like you can give examples of bad Muslims, I can give examples of good muslims. This one belonging to a persecuted sect of Muslims in Pakistan and a Nobel Laureate as well.


CAA is the right thing to do. As a country that has been the target of islamic violence for centuries, it is our moral duty to help others in the same situation.
India didn't even exist centuries ago. Do you not know that India, as a country, came into existense in 1947 when people of all religions came together and gained independence on the base of this unity. The people who you are talking about were just citizens of divided princely states that were scattered all over what is now knows as the Indian sub-continent. What is more important to you? Education and affordable healthcare for all or wasting money for taking revenge on people who have been dead for centuries by persecuting the people who weren't even born then but belong to the same religion.

All CAA does is speed up the naturalisation process for these refugees from 11 years to 6 years. It does not preclude muslims from applying for citizenship, they'd have to wait the std 11 years. To avail of CAA specific conditions must be met to prove religious persecution.
Why is this special provision decided on which religion the person belong to? Surely we can think of much more important metrics which allows the competent authority to speed up one application over the other.

BTW, I am not only against this bias based on religion. I am equally opposed to all reservations and benefits that are given to people based on their religion or caste. I just can't fathom the stupidity behind use religion or caste as a metric to distribute benefits if we ever want to become a developed nation.
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
6,216
1,389
301
Why is this special provision decided on which religion the person belong to? Surely we can think of much more important metrics which allows the competent authority to speed up one application over the other.
I don't know. The line i've heard is they have been without any official papers since the last 50 years. So what benefit does halving the time make then ?

More you dig into this topic the more questions crop up

BTW, I am not only against this bias based on religion. I am equally opposed to all reservations and benefits that are given to people based on their religion or caste. I just can't fathom the stupidity behind use religion or caste as a metric to distribute benefits if we ever want to become a developed nation.
The reason it is given to non-muslims is because Pakistan & Bangladesh were created for muslims therefore they will not be persecuted.

Ambedkar wanted a population transfer but that was not feasible so Nehru & Liaqat settled on 'critical hostage'

Each holds on to their minority community as protection that their community will not be adversely affected in the other country.

We kept to our side the deal. The Paks reneged. Minorities made up 21% in Pakistan at the time of partition. Currently its around 3%

Pakistan stopped Indians from immigrating to Pakistan in 1951

Post automatically merged:

Just like you can give examples of bad Muslims, I can give examples of good muslims. This one belonging to a persecuted sect of Muslims in Pakistan and a Nobel Laureate as well.

Thing about Ahmadiyas is at the time they were the biggest supporters of two nation theory, For the creation of Pakistan all the way.

Funny how things turned out.

Bramdegh Bugti wanted to come to India we refused. Which idiot made that decision ?!?
 
Last edited:

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
6,216
1,389
301
Who is talking about revenge?
This is the beauty of it.

The impression is being carefully created that this is anti-muslim when the exact opposite is going on. Listen

Radicals won, BJP with its awesome PR lost this one.
 

chiron

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Feb 8, 2006
1,569
481
172
As with all BJP's policies the so called intended beneficiaries don't get much but there's is a whole lot of collateral damage and polarization. The sangh were the original anti-nationals as they were opposed to Ambedkar & Co's constitution but now they decide on who the anti-nationals are. At least we can vent about an issue that really doesn't affect too many instead of the ruined economy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mh09ad5578

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
May 10, 2009
2,634
1,292
253
It is true though. If it wasn't apparent from the speeches and comments that multiple BJP Ministers make, then the Ayodhya verdict was a clear give away. The Ayodhya verdict is such a dark day for any judiciary when the apex court decides to give more importance to the sentiments of the crowd than the facts. In the judgement the court laments that what happened was judicially wrong, but they can't or rather won't do anything about it because of what the crowd might do. If breaking down Babri Masjid wasn't an act of revenge then what was it. And when such acts get the approval of the judiciary, that does nothing but bolden the people who perpetrated that act of cowardice to do such things again, especially when the judgement fails to elicit the response they wanted from the victims of the crime.

The narrative isn't lost on me or many others who are against such religious propaganda. If a person is found to be an illegal immigrant in India during the NRC, then the government has made clear that they will give more preference to some religious groups over others as per the CAA. BJP has clearly shown again and again via their speeches and propaganda that they want to work towards a Hindu state and hence when such laws or acts come out then it is quite obvious that the driving force behind such amendments is their main goal of building a 'Hindu Rashtra'. And I'd rather show my dissent now than give them 'a benefit of doubt' and let them tear the fabric of this nation with their divisive and revengeful politics.
 

pauldmps

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Mar 20, 2011
1,422
243
101
28
Those of who support this bill, do you know why the BJP is suddenly feeling so generous on immigrants while a large population of our own is reeling under joblessness and economic slowdown?
Have you seen the BJP working this hard on fixing the issues in our country as much hard they worked on getting this bill passed and implemented?

If one thing the BJP is good at is to use legislation to do bad things. They got the electoral bonds bill passed as a finance bill so that they did not need the support of Rajya Sabha, back in 2014, when they did not have the required numbers in the Rajya Sabha.

They did demonetisation solely to disarm the opposition in the UP and get elected.

Now they have planned a series of acts that look harmless on its own but together becomes a toxic combination all the way to their goal of a Hindu nation by 2024. Next in line - Data protection bill.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mh09ad5578

Soyab0007

Gamer
Adept
Dec 30, 2008
813
184
132
31
Andheri west
From 2014 - BJP Era

BEEF BAN
Demonetization
GST
Triple Talaq
Article 375
CAB/CAA

No Internet in Kashmir for past 140 Days (Imagine the life of Kashmiri's without Internet)

Economic crisis in India, and I expect more worst going to happen

Still many are supporting BJP, shame on such people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dissel

vaibhavyagnik

Well-Known Member
Adept
Mar 25, 2010
517
198
133
35
From 2014 - BJP Era

BEEF BAN
Demonetization
GST
Triple Talaq
Article 375
CAB/CAA

No Internet in Kashmir for past 140 Days (Imagine the life of Kashmiri's without Internet)

Economic crisis in India, and I expect more worst going to happen

Still many are supporting BJP, shame on such people.
Whats wrong with Triple talaq, Article 375? I admit demonetization and GST might have adverse effects due to poor implementation, but the intent was definetly positive.
 

blr_p

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Apr 11, 2007
6,216
1,389
301
370 & Ayodhya judgement came about without any issues. Because they did their homework.

I can't recall any protests of this size since 2014. Why ? They didn't do their homework and let the radicals instigate people and see how quickly the mass hysteria was generated

The protests made front page news in the WSJ, WAPO & NYT.

At a time when there is a conspiracy to impeach their president how does India become front page news in the US ? Agenda!

BJP to hold massive outreach programme on Citizenship Amendment Act

Finally they woke up :)

The BJP has announced a mass contact programme to expose opposition parties' lies and inform the people about the details of the Citizenship Amendment Act.
The way that reads is it was done deliberately. They set a trap and the opposition took it.

Nah! you got your PR wrong and the opposition exploited it.

If you have to resort to curfews, Sec144 & internet shutdowns you lost control of the narrative.
Post automatically merged:

No Internet in Kashmir for past 140 Days (Imagine the life of Kashmiri's without Internet)
Paks dominate Kashmiri cyberspace. What do we do ? pull the plug :(

See how fast things can move.

CAA bill passed Dec 12

Ten days later protests in 13 cities and mass hysteria generated.

Now imagine that concentrated in Kashmir

Plenty of opportunity to paint the govt as communal when the reality is the people instigating these protests with stone pelting and arson are the communal ones.

Invite external powers to meddle in our internal affairs. Whose agenda does this serve. Not ours.

They couldn't get their 'blood bath' in Kashmir and looked for the next best option - pan India

Since when do we pelt stones at cops In India ?
 
Last edited:

adder

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Jul 8, 2007
3,524
374
173
370 & Ayodhya judgement came about without any issues. Because they did their homework.

I can't recall any protests of this size since 2014. Why ? They didn't do their homework and let the radicals instigate people and see how quickly the mass hysteria was generated

The protests made front page news in the WSJ, WAPO & NYT.
A muslim posted on twitter that CAA protest have nothing to do with it but are a build up due to the TTT, 370 etc.

I think had they included the other sections like Ahmaduyya, shia from bangladesh. The opposition political parties would have had less ammo. But then again even without religious persecution they would have migrated to india and India is already overpopulated. I see Indians trying to go to USA border via mexico citing fake religion persecution.

Someone on SM, said that these protests are due to congress and muslims loosing the veto power ( Veto power like the permanent 5 in the UNSC).

In Up 50 plus police personal had bullet injuries, this is a serious national security issue.
When some sections of the India people where celebrating the pulwama, alarm bells should have been rung.
In bangalore I hear crackers bursting late at night in certain community dominated areas, when ever a BSF or soldier is killed.

Again not all of the largest minority community does this, its a fraction of those people but still a fraction is all it takes to cause some kind of mass public property damage or casualties.

But if this same protests where done by the minority communities in Bangladesh or Pakistan, do you think even one protestor would be alive.

The silent onlooking majority believed the protests are mostly due to ill informed people about CAA, now after these violent protests many think there is a rather more sinister motive, when you see messages like this

Also on social media was this link http://godreports.com/2015/09/how-islam-takes-over-countries/

The protests made front page news in the WSJ, WAPO & NYT.
Western media have long lost their credibility from fake russia gate, fake syrian chemical attack,fake narrative on assad, fake WMD in iraq. They just don't care anymore they where celebrating the impeachment of Trump.

Even after a first moon mission, while the headlines news video will be of a rocket launch, the vast majority of the main news video will be about some slum.

News channels that have been neutral are Russian channels. Even the chinese news agencies and their government have been sympathetic to the government about the CAA protest, probably owing to our silence on HK and their iron grip on their minority.
 

pauldmps

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Mar 20, 2011
1,422
243
101
28
A muslim posted on twitter that CAA protest have nothing to do with it but are a build up due to the TTT, 370 etc.

I think had they included the other sections like Ahmaduyya, shia from bangladesh. The opposition political parties would have had less ammo. But then again even without religious persecution they would have migrated to india and India is already overpopulated. I see Indians trying to go to USA border via mexico citing fake religion persecution.

Someone on SM, said that these protests are due to congress and muslims loosing the veto power ( Veto power like the permanent 5 in the UNSC).

In Up 50 plus police personal had bullet injuries, this is a serious national security issue.
When some sections of the India people where celebrating the pulwama, alarm bells should have been rung.
In bangalore I hear crackers bursting late at night in certain community dominated areas, when ever a BSF or soldier is killed.

Again not all of the largest minority community does this, its a fraction of those people but still a fraction is all it takes to cause some kind of mass public property damage or casualties.
There are bad people on both sides - Muslims and BJP. Just cherry-picking explosive speeches made by those people cannot be used to justify this legislation or any other decision by this govt or any other govt.

Have you noticed a trend of violent protests only in states ruled by the BJP - Assam, UP, Karnataka, Delhi (Delhi police is under the centre) & WB (where BJP members were caught wearing skullcaps and lungis, trying to set a train on fire) ?

In Delhi 10 people were arrested for Jamia protest violence - none were found to be students or person associated with the university.

Causing violence to disrupt a peaceful protest is not a new strategy, it was done by Congress too before.

There was no violence in Mumbai, Hyderabad (with huge Muslim population) or Chennai.

But if this same protests where done by the minority communities in Bangladesh or Pakistan, do you think even one protestor would be alive.

The silent onlooking majority believed the protests are mostly due to ill informed people about CAA, now after these violent protests many think there is a rather more sinister motive, when you see messages like this
Why do we always compare ourselves to these 4th grade nations like Bangladesh and Pakistan? Why not compare to France or Spain, where there were protests (Yellow vest, Catalonia)?

The link you posted is from a Christian propaganda website. I would not bother reading it.

Western media have long lost their credibility from fake russia gate, fake syrian chemical attack,fake narrative on assad, fake WMD in iraq. They just don't care anymore they where celebrating the impeachment of Trump.

Even after a first moon mission, while the headlines news video will be of a rocket launch, the vast majority of the main news video will be about some slum.
Russia gate was not fake as provided in Muller report, I don't know how you are defending Assad when huge number of people are dead or displaced by his actions, Iraq fake WMD was Bush/Cheney's idea to grab the oilfields for American companies.These have no relevance to the current issue at hand.

What surprises me is that the same people were praising Time magazine when Manmohan Singh was called 'Underachiever' and when 'Modi means business' article was published. You cannot selectively question the credibility of the international media as per suitability of your opinions.

Now if ask about the UN, you will also question its credibility. Basically any person/organisation criticising the Modi govt has no credibility/ is anti-national.

News channels that have been neutral are Russian channels. Even the chinese news agencies and their government have been sympathetic to the government about the CAA protest, probably owing to our silence on HK and their iron grip on their minority.
Its a proud moment to see an autocratic country like China citing India's record of Internet shutdowns to justify its own.