Again not all of the largest minority community does this, its a fraction of those people but still a fraction is all it takes to cause some kind of mass public property damage or casualties.
I just can't judge a whole community on the basis of the actions of a fraction of the people. Hell, I refuse to judge and condemn a certain community even if 99% of a community is bad because it is gross injustice to the 1% that is good. You just cannot punish anyone who hasn't done anything wrong.
If it is deemed alright to brand all muslims as terrorists then why aren't there stronger rules against politicians and policemen against whom also, there is a popular consensus that most are beyond corrupt.
I'll give you another very pertinent example of what happens when weak laws get made because everyone of the same class gets painted with the same brush. 'Rape' probably destroys many time more people's lives than terrorism and this is true not only for India but the whole world. There can be facets of acts of terrorism that can justify those acts. Before anyone bites my head off for saying this, do remember that a person who is a revolutionary for some can be labelled as a terrorist by others. For eg. the great revolutionaries of Indian Independence Movement who were hanged as terrorists by the English government during their occupation of the Indian subcontinent. But I can't think of even one reason that can justify the reprehensible act of rape. Again mostly everyone will agree with me that in 99.99% of rape cases, the act is perpetrated by a man. However, that doesn't make 'every man a rapist' . There is no other crime in the world which can be attributed nearly 100% to a certain class (in this case the class being 'gender') than 'rape'. And still you just can't paint everyone belonging to the same class as a rapist. However, due to governments failing to do the right thing, led them to make knee-jerk reaction and pass unjust laws which pass the onus of proof onto the accused rather than the accuser. The result is gross injustice and persecution of innocent men who have been embroiled in false rape and dowry cases by conniving women.
For me, a society has failed if even one innocent gets punished for no fault of his and I hope you and others can agree on it and hence understand how not only wrong but also dangerous is to label a whole community on the actions of a few.
Who is this person ? he is either ignorant or lying on both.
TTT is an aberration found only in Indian Sharia. It does not exist in other muslim countries. The rules on divorce are clearly defined but i've never heard of TTT outside India. Therefore for the govt to move against TTT is to remove an aberration and for people to argue against is to preserve a custom that has no basis in islamic law
Muslims on the mainland do not identify with the muslims in Kashmir. They see that as a struggle only for the Kashmiri. Therefore amending 370 resulting in no blow ups in the country as it isn't a communal issue to begin with. No mainlanders went to fight in Kashmir against the Indian army.
I think had they included the other sections like Ahmaduyya, shia from bangladesh. The opposition political parties would have had less ammo. But then again even without religious persecution they would have migrated to india and India is already overpopulated.
Do Ahmadiyas and Shia consider themselves as muslim ? yes they do. Full muslims not heretics. For India to include them implies we are taking sides in a muslim dispute where we have no locus standii. If the Paks consider them as heretics that is their business. In India we consider Ahmadiyas & Shias as full muslims.
Someone on SM, said that these protests are due to congress and muslims loosing the veto power ( Veto power like the permanent 5 in the UNSC).
I believe its a show of strength. Just because they do not have the numbers in parliament does not mean they are out of power or that the govt has absolute power.
In Up 50 plus police personal had bullet injuries, this is a serious national security issue.
When some sections of the India people where celebrating the pulwama, alarm bells should have been rung.
In bangalore I hear crackers bursting late at night in certain community dominated areas, when ever a BSF or soldier is killed.
Bullet injuries imply there are some terrorist elements involved. Then again easier to bear arms in UP as its law & order situation is very unlike the south.
The silent onlooking majority believed the protests are mostly due to ill informed people about CAA, now after these violent protests many think there is a rather more sinister motive, when you see messages like this
I don't know who this person is but it seems like attention seeking to me. Fatah is an interesting character from the little i've seen of him. On of the few Paks that can land multiple blows on Indians and them blink and not know how to respond. He says he is an Indian that was born in now Pakistan. He gets rock star treatment when he comes here so he knows which side of his bread is buttered.
So this is an interesting book report. It talks about proportion. What is the basis of CAA. We are told it is ostensibly to help refugees. But with digging other points come out.
Assam is a hindu majority state. The way it remains hindu majority is Assam hindus + Bengali hindus aka illegals. So CAA allows Assam to retain Hindu majority. Fact that Assam hindus hate Bengali hindus more than muslims is the fly in the ointment here. Somehow BJP is going to have to resolve it. If bengali hindus have to leave then muslims that make up 30% of Assam will approach 50% and Assam becomes a muslim majority state. What happens at that point is an open question. But it becomes an attractive target for influence operations against India. The next Kashmir.
Assam is a strategic state. It is the gateway to the NE. If Assam were to become disturbed and remain that way then the NE becomes dislocated from India. Therefore keeping it hindu majority is an imperative. I do not consider this communal. I see it as keeping trouble out. The 20% Bengali hindus in Tripura kept that state calm until recently things got agitated again.
Western media have long lost their credibility from fake russia gate, fake syrian chemical attack,fake narrative on assad, fake WMD in iraq. They just don't care anymore they where celebrating the impeachment of Trump.
I don't know if we became front page because Christmas is traditionally slow news period in the US. Still you'd think Trump and impeachment has to rank more important.
News channels that have been neutral are Russian channels. Even the chinese news agencies and their government have been sympathetic to the government about the CAA protest, probably owing to our silence on HK and their iron grip on their minority.
I do not consider Russian channels as neutral. They are peddling their govts line and there are times our ambassadors parrot those lines at the expense of friends to keep the Russians happy.
That China would be sympathetic to Indian crackdowns means they are saying even democratic countries resort to such measures and not just autocrats. It paints us in a poor light that the govt has to resort to such heavy handed measures. In other words we are just as bad. But we were not alert and that is why these measures had to be invoked.
Have you noticed a trend of violent protests only in states ruled by the BJP - Assam, UP, Karnataka, Delhi (Delhi police is under the centre) & WB (where BJP members were caught wearing skullcaps and lungis, trying to set a train on fire) ?
On December 18, six men, locally known as BJP supporters, were arrested in Murshidabad for throwing stones at a train engine plying on the Sealdah-Lalgola line in ‘lungi’ and ‘skullcap’.
India News: Railway properties were set ablaze, employees attacked, houses randomly torched and highways blocked across West Bengal on Sunday as vandalism coursed
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
BJP members aren't going to set BJP office ablaze. WB has lots of goons. Why so much violence in a non-BJP state ?
In Delhi 10 people were arrested for Jamia protest violence - none were found to be students or person associated with the university.
There are bad people on both sides - Muslims and BJP. Just cherry-picking explosive speeches made by those people cannot be used to justify this legislation or any other decision by this govt or any other govt.
Have you noticed a trend of violent protests only in states ruled by the BJP - Assam, UP, Karnataka, Delhi (Delhi police is under the centre) & WB (where BJP members were caught wearing skullcaps and lungis, trying to set a train on fire) ?
That's because the governments there either do not support the bill, governments who depend on minority votes or are approaching elections.
More over UP has the largest muslim population in India, which unsurprisingly has the highest violence with fire arms equipped rioters.
Russia gate was not fake as provided in Muller report, I don't know how you are defending Assad when huge number of people are dead or displaced by his actions, Iraq fake WMD was Bush/Cheney's idea to grab the oilfields for American companies.These have no relevance to the current issue at hand.
What Russia did was a response to what CIA under Obama did in ukraine. But MSM wants you to believe that trump actively colluded with Russia. MSM conveniently want to ignore what Bidens did which is on camera.
FISA warrants to spy on trump was nothing but political bias, Comey lied, NSA lies, CIA lies. All the deep state and obama era government staff are scared by trump drain the swamp investigations. Buts all this for another topic. We should have a thread in TE for world affairs.
If you have ever listened to Assad inteviews he only demands one thing from the interviewer that is to show the full unedited video to the world. That guy speaks logically with common sense. If you haven't seen his interviews, you should.
People where displaced in syria because of US regime change policy, just like Ukraine. During assad rule woman where banned from wearing Burka or full facial covering dress or scrarf or what ever you want to call them, they had rights to divorce and had rights to get property share.
The white helmets are a scam funded by UK and OPEC fudged the reports of chemical attack, just when trump a announced to pull troops out of syria a chemical attack takes place.
Any person even with half a working brain will know that it doesn't make sense to attack using chemical weapons when Assad was already winning. But the FUD presented to trump by the deep state was enough for trump to approve air strikes.
While the girls -- Ladeeda Sakhaloon and Aysha Renna N -- have been receiving both bouquets and brick-bats on social media, all sorts of unverified things are being said. Here is all you wanted to know about them.
www.indiatoday.in
Charming lot these are
This is Hijabi power. We will need more women cops & soldiers to tackle them.
Why is Kerela showing up with these characters. Its the Wahabi influence from the Gulf.
This is Wahabi money at work.
See how the psychology works, Innocent girls being attacked by thug cops. Police brutality. Minority persecuted. Is this Kashmir ? No, its Delhi. ZOMG!!!
The guy is a suspected arsonist, the cops knew the background of these girls. The red t-shirt guy is some intel fellow.
The opposition is suave, well educated, funded, networked with external collaborators that finesse western publications.
This is next gen information warfare. We are losing this fight.
I just can't judge a whole community on the basis of the actions of a fraction of the people. Hell, I refuse to judge and condemn a certain community even if 99% of a community is bad because it is gross injustice to the 1% that is good. You just cannot punish anyone who hasn't done anything wrong
If it is deemed alright to brand all muslims as terrorists then why aren't there stronger rules against politicians and policemen against whom also, there is a popular consensus that most are beyond corrupt.
For me, a society has failed if even one innocent gets punished for no fault of his and I hope you and others can agree on it and hence understand how not only wrong but also dangerous is to label a whole community on the actions of a few.
What you say is morally true but in this case the Muslims from bangladesh or Pakistan unless they are of Shia and Ahmadiyas respectively, they are not persecuted.
The innocent getting punished is a tough decision.I know this is a extreme example but Even in a hijacked aircraft which doesn't comply it will be shot down and that's a tough decision by any PM or president or the pilot pulling the trigger. Hundreds of innocent will have to be taken down.
Say tomorrow there is new Hollywood movie type super virus with no cure or ability to early screen but what they do know is that its spreading from a certain region, You can bet they will stop flights from the certain region and essentially put a quarantine. Sure many innocent would want to escape but will the world take a chance.
What Russia did was a response to what CIA under Obama did in ukraine. But MSM wants you to believe that trump actively colluded with Russia. MSM conveniently want to ignore what Bidens did which is on camera.
FISA warrants to spy on trump was nothing but political bias, Comey lied, NSA lies, CIA lies. All the deep state and obama era government staff are scared by trump drain the swamp investigations. Buts all this for another topic. We should have a thread in TE for world affairs.
The Ayodhya verdict is such a dark day for any judiciary when the apex court decides to give more importance to the sentiments of the crowd than the facts. In the judgement the court laments that what happened was judicially wrong, but they can't or rather won't do anything about it because of what the crowd might do. If breaking down Babri Masjid wasn't an act of revenge then what was it. And when such acts get the approval of the judiciary, that does nothing but bolden the people who perpetrated that act of cowardice to do such things again, especially when the judgement fails to elicit the response they wanted from the victims of the crime.
I think it was a very bad move for Congress to not just let them build a temple decades ago. They could have still pandered to minorities to keep votebank. Instead, they just let it fester and let it become the key rallying point for the sangh. Same with Kashmir. I guess they should have pandered to the majority as well.
I think had they included the other sections like Ahmaduyya, shia from bangladesh. The opposition political parties would have had less ammo. But then again even without religious persecution they would have migrated to india and India is already overpopulated. I see Indians trying to go to USA border via mexico citing fake religion persecution.
2.8 While making an observation on the word minority included in the proposed amendment Bill, one of the Constitutional experts while tendering evidence before the Committee opined as under: "Firstly, the term minority has not been defined in the Constitution. I would submit that the minority does not mean only religious minority. It may be minority on other grounds...If you say persecuted minorities, it will cover all those people you have in view."
2.9 The Constitutional expert further stated: "...If you want to be on the safer side, we would have to omit reference to religions like Hindus, Sikhs, Parsis etc. I again submit that if we use the term 'persecuted minorities' the purpose would be served. As compared to communities, minorities would perhaps be more useful from the legal and constitutional point of view."
2.10 Taking into account the views expressed by the Constitutional expert, the Committee desired to know from the Ministry of Law & Justice, the overall impact it would have if 'persecuted minorities from the neighbouring countries' replace the proposed Amendment specifying the religiously persecuted minority communities in Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Pakistan.
In response, the Legislative Department submitted as under: "Using persecuted minorities from the neighbouring countries instead of its current form may negate the objectives of the Bill. As there is a possibility for wider scope of interpretation, it may be construed to include other communities (religious or otherwise). Moreover, the aspect of 'religious persecution' would also be lost sight of."
The reason they included these communities is because partition was done on the basis of religion.
But is it constitutionally valid ?
2.29 As regards the constitutionality and legality of the proposed amendments, one of the Constitutional Experts, while tendering evidence before the Committee deposed as under:
"... I submit that mentioning minority communities, namely, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis, and Christians, is violative of the Constitution because Article 14 is very clear that all persons on the soil of India once any one is on the soil of India cannot be discriminated on grounds of religion. So my humble submission for your consideration would be that if we do not change this, it may be thrown out by the Supreme Court within minutes. My submission as a student of the Constitution is that it is violative of Article 14 of the Constitution. I have collected the Supreme Court judgements and given them in my note and I need not repeat the arguments."
2.30 The Constitutional Expert further stated:
".....Article 14 and Article 25 would be violated if we continue to use the present terminology of Hindus, Parsis, Sikhs because Article 25 says, for example, that Muslims also have the right to practice their religion. If you deny some benefits to them as against others only on the ground of religion, Article 25 would also be violated. Article 14 is very categorical that all persons on the Indian soil are entitled to equal treatment."
The law ministry thinks it does not violate article 14
2.32 Appreciating the views expressed by the Experts, the Committee desired to have clarifications from the Ministry of Law and Justice as to whether the proposed Amendments would violate the spirit of Article 14 and Article 25 of the Constitution. In response, the Legislative Department submitted as under:
"The proposed Amendment Bill may not violate the spirit of Article 14, as mentioned earlier, as it upholds the test of reasonable classification as propounded by a seven Judge Bench in the State of West Bengal Vs. Anwar Ali Sarkar (AIR 1952 SC 75). Based on the clear classification adopted in the Bill, which is clear and substantial, there are sufficient reasons for making the distinction. There can be no element of arbitrariness in the classification proposed by virtue of these just reasons.
With regard to Article 25, the proposed Amendment Bill does not, in anyway, affect the right of any person to freely profess, practice and propagate religion in the country."
2.33 When the Committee desired to hear the views of the Department of Legal Affairs, they furnished a detailed note as reproduced below:
"The Bill has been examined with respect to the issue of violation of Article 14 and 25 of the Constitution. With respect to Article 14 of the Constitution, it may be mentioned that the legal position in this regard is fairly settled. Article 14 encompasses both the negative Concept of 'equality before law' as well as the positive concept of 'equal protection of law'.
Thus, the same ensures that no special provision in favour of any one is made and that all are equally subject to the ordinary law of the land. The positive concept of equality does not postulate equal treatment of all persons without distinction but rather stresses on equality of treatment in equal circumstances or to similarly situated persons. A legislature is entitled to make reasonable classification for purposes of legislation and treat all in one class on equal footing
Sorry, but for me justice is more important than closure and what was done in the Ayodhya case was not justice. At least not acoording to the current laws of the country.
The judiciary has no place for sentiments and feelings. When you bring sentiments into the working of judiciary, you lose credibility as an unbiased authority to make decisions. In law, the only thing that should matter are hard, cold facts and nothing else. Same happens when you make weak laws due to sentiments like the dreaded Section 498A. You encroach upon the rights of the accused to a fair trial by putting the onus on him to prove his innocence.
I think you are being naive here.
BJP, choosing to stay mum initially, played very well to appease the hindutva hardliners: the one's that feel left out whenever Modi has given emphasis on governance and economics rather than religion card. Ever wonder why in this as well as previous general election NDA/BJP shifted from a course of economic prosperity to Ram mandir as the voting D-days came closer?
Also Amit Shah has been quite vocal about how he intends to use the laws to take care of these "Babar ki aulads".
To be honest, the minorities in our neighboring countries ARE being troubled and persecuted by their respective States.
Thankfully, the minorities in India are not in that position.
Therefore it becomes a moral duty of Indians to welcome such troubled minority immigrants with open arms.
However, it is wrong to assume that certain sects/groups of muslims are not in this same predicament in their respective countries and therefore do not wish to flee from there.
I think you are being naive here.
BJP, choosing to stay mum initially, played very well to appease the hindutva hardliners: the one's that feel left out whenever Modi has given emphasis on governance and economics rather than religion card. Ever wonder why in this as well as previous general election NDA/BJP shifted from a course of economic prosperity to Ram mandir as the voting D-days came closer?
When did Amit shah say that ? Yogi did and see how it was said, it was not said in the ominous way you imply.
I don't see a problem if Yogi said it the way those two articles explained it. EC did and gave him a day to explain what he meant.
To be honest, the minorities in our neighboring countries ARE being troubled and persecuted by their respective States.
Thankfully, the minorities in India are not in that position.
Therefore it becomes a moral duty of Indians to welcome such troubled minority immigrants with open arms.
However, it is wrong to assume that certain sects/groups of muslims are not in this same predicament in their respective countries and therefore do not wish to flee from there.
They can apply for citizenship as normal. CAA was only to address people who have remained without papers for close to half a century. It is retrospective . Meaning after 2014 it does not apply.
Russia today is countering western medias (and even some indian channel narratives )with barrage of news articles which is Pro- CAA with the actual reasons behind the anti CAA rallies.
In Bangalore yesterday, there was peaceful pro CAA support gathering in Town Hall, one of the person in the event who was from BJP was stabbed 1 km from the event when he was waylaid by 4 people while he was returning home. So if you don't agree with them, you get the sword.
Among the various other pro CAA rally, doctors in kolkata took part too
As early as some 6 years back if I heard something on CNN, I would have assumed it was the fact. But the Trump elections showed how rotten the MSM media is. No suprise Fox news has highest ratings.
When that UFO footage recorded by F/A18 jets came out, you would imagine it would have made headlines, but the MSM was so fixated on anti trump hate coverage that it went unnoticed.
WSJ is owned by jeff bezos and trump replied in kind for the giving the large military contract to Microsoft rather then amazon.
In the US, the military chiefs are controlled by the military industrial complex(MIL). US biggest exports are aircraft/weapons. If you cross the MIL you are screwed.
In Bangalore yesterday, there was peaceful pro CAA support gathering in Town Hall, one of the person in the event who was from BJP was stabbed 1 km from the event when he was waylaid by 4 people while he was returning home. So if you don't agree with them, you get the sword.
India News: BENGALURU: Four bike-borne miscreants allegedly stabbed a 31-year-old man when he was returning home from a pro-Citizenship (Amendment) Act (CAA) rall.
As early as some 6 years back if I head something on CNN, I would have assumed it was the fact. But the Trump elections showed how rotten the MSM media is. No suprise Fox news has highest ratings.
Now you can learn ‘Bhoot Vidya’ or the ‘science of paranormal’ in the Banaras Hindu University (BHU) which is starting a six month certificate course on the subject.
Now you can learn ‘Bhoot Vidya’ or the ‘science of paranormal’ in the Banaras Hindu University (BHU) which is starting a six month certificate course on the subject.
So true. I've noticed lot of no name American or Western scholars or academics writing negative stories on Indian "genocide" in Kashmir, rapes, brutality etc. The same articles are then linked on Twitter and Reddit by Pakistani propaganda accounts (probably buying old Reddit accounts all over for a few dollars) and copy pasting the same genocide and Hindu fundamentalist, bhakt, etc name calling tactics. They then make the first comment look like it's truth by adding 15-20 comments supporting it and also give out Reddit coins etc.
Pakistani ISI probably has full time internet propaganda accounts run by army personal and their citizens in Western countries. They already have US senators lobbying for them for a few grand.
Even that recent news about some European sure finding out fake need propaganda from India looks like it was leaked from Pakistan. If the European team who found that out was unbiased, they could have easily found out of similar sites run by Pakistani intelligence agencies. But all we heard everywhere was India.
India should step up their internet game i think. India was always on the losing side from years. Pakistan has always gotten away with shouting lies since they make more noise in every forum and India is always defending.
So true. I've noticed lot of no name American or Western scholars or academics writing negative stories on Indian "genocide" in Kashmir, rapes, brutality etc. The same articles are then linked on Twitter and Reddit by Pakistani propaganda accounts (probably buying old Reddit accounts all over for a few dollars) and copy pasting the same genocide and Hindu fundamentalist, bhakt, etc name calling tactics. They then make the first comment look like it's truth by adding 15-20 comments supporting it and also give out Reddit coins etc.
Pakistani ISI probably has full time internet propaganda accounts run by army personal and their citizens in Western countries. They already have US senators lobbying for them for a few grand.
Even that recent news about some European sure finding out fake need propaganda from India looks like it was leaked from Pakistan. If the European team who found that out was unbiased, they could have easily found out of similar sites run by Pakistani intelligence agencies. But all we heard everywhere was India.
India should step up their internet game i think. India was always on the losing side from years. Pakistan has always gotten away with shouting lies since they make more noise in every forum and India is always defending.
India has always been behind in online PR, all political parties here have their people running social media but they only push stories which help their party.
Pakistan on other hand has their own people who actually do it for free. Their country's sub always has atleast 5 threads about Indian related topics and they actually know names of so many Indian politicians, news anchors and famous personalities.
That country is legit textbook definition of living rent free.
During pulwama incident pakis were pushing their agenda so hard that they even had multiple PAID accounts on 4chan of all places.
They were using 3-4 accounts with 4chan pass/membership and spammed twitter feeds continuously for weeks.
India should step up their internet game i think. India was always on the losing side from years. Pakistan has always gotten away with shouting lies since they make more noise in every forum and India is always defending.
The reality is India gets slammed for trying to address needs of people facing religious persecution whereas there is no talk whatsoever about the same persecution in Pakistan. I've posted whenever our reps at various intl bodies point this out. There would be no need for CAA if they looked after their minorities better. That the number of minorities has significantly reduced since independence is proof.
The hypocrisy in the muslim world is breath taking. No arab country accepted refugees from Syria. They ended up in Europe. They remain silent about treatment of Uighurs in detention camps in China but its the Americans that have had to sanction people responsible in China.
It takes time to address this. If a Pak & a Sikh confront an Indian abroad about the lack of justice since the '84 riots the Indian is going to be hard pressed to respond. Spotting the PR takes knowledge whereas they have their talking points down pat. They repeat them in many places. Occasionally i get to spar with them. The result is predictable
I work for govt
I should get paid by the govt
I am a hindu extremist
You get accused of whatever they are guilty of. This is an old tactic the commies used.
b) No belief in the competency of this government to conduct a fair, well implemented plan which doesn't trouble the common man like me, based on how they handled demonetization and cases like the one mentioned in this article.
Honorary flight lieutenant (retired) Chabindra Sarma from Biswanath Chariali in Assam failed to include himself in the list despite using the same Legacy Data that his parents and children registered with.
A retired soldier from Assam, who served the army for 30 years, has been declared a foreigner by the police under a law used to stop illegal migration from Bangladesh. Mohammad Sanaulla, 53, who served as a Subedar in the army till 2017 and fought terrorists in Kashmir and Manipur, was arrested...
www.ndtv.com
A retired soldier from Assam, who served the army for 30 years, has been declared a foreigner by the police under a law used to stop illegal migration from Bangladesh.
Mohammad Sanaulla, 53, who served as a Subedar in the army till 2017 and fought terrorists in Kashmir and Manipur, was arrested today and sent to a detention centre.
Mohammad Sanaullah was commissioned as a Junior Commissioned Officer 2014 and made an Honorary Lieutenant. After his retirement in 2017, he was working as a Sub-Inspector of the Assam Border police -- which deals specifically with the detection of illegal migrants. The same unit has now accused him of being an illegal resident.
Yes, but how? Pakistan's human rights record is so bad that pointing it out is like saying the sky's blue.
Post automatically merged:
Under MMS, there was a major financial crisis followed by a severe global recession yet our country was doing so well.
Under Namo we have economies around the world bouncing back, global demand is on the rise and oil prices are low but we have CRASHED (not slipped) on virtually every important economic indicator. demand, production, investment - is at an all time low.
TLDR: Imagine going to a doctor with a fracture and he says you have a fever!
The real tragedy is when you go back to the same quack for your next ailment.
