CPU/Mobo Dec 2007: AMD vs. Intel?? Help in choosing!

K

kingkong

Disciple
Hi geeks! A slightly longish start to this thread.:)
Need your help to buy myself a new rig. Whenever I think back at the 90K I spent in 1998 on my P-I MMX with 1.1 GB Seagate, I still tear out my hair in despair (whatever is left of it!). I need suggestions for a new rig. I am no gamer, but do a lot of video rendering and conversion and my machines (I have 2 older ones that take up a lot of processing (and my) time. I need a machine that will significantly cut this time and my electricity bills. I need to keep my machines on 24/7 for most of my work, but would like to get a lot of work done faster and switch off the machine. I usually need to run upto 5 devices at a time, like 2 DVD drives, 3 HDDs. Almost all SATA-I so far! I need at least 4 USB ports and 1-2 IEEE94a ports. I don't care for RAID and don't wish to run anything too hot and do not wish to overclock. As I am not a gamer, on-board graphics and audio works fine for me and I would consider only such mobos. Main consideration is not so much realtime editing as conversion / recode speeds of video files. My budget: @15K for mobo+ram+cabby. I would be happy with dual core suggestions now, but prefer mobos that could accept quad core family chips in future.
I have been browsing the Intel site and looking up the specs. of the commonly available mobos and procs at Nehru Place, Delhi for the simple reason that all the detailed specs. are easily available on the excellently laid-out Intel website. I am blank about currently available mobos from other makers or current AMD combinations, but would like your feedback. I guess Intel is far ahead of AMD as far as marketing and availability go, but I am sure there are good MSI and Gigabyte mobos out there that are better value for money than many of the Intel boards. I have had warranty / repair problems with ASUS earlier, but would still be willing to look at ASUS boards meeting my needs.
I am in Delhi till 27 Dec. (live in TN), but am not in a tearing hurry to get a new rig, if I can get newer technology at current prices in 2008-Q1. But if the price difference is not going to be significant, I would rather go in for a new rig now.
I source most of my main stuff from Computer Empire (CE) or SMC and occasionally also Cost-to-Cost (C2C) in Nehru Place; any other dealer recommendations??:huh:
 
This is a no brainer - Intel - considering the application and use you have in mind.

you can look at the Abit IP35E or the biostar + some proccy, I would suggest Quad, but you want to save that for the future, so whatever suits your pocket.
 
Here you go KingKong

Processor: Q6600 @ Rs 11K
Mobo: IP35 Pro @ Rs 9.6K (you will love the expansion slots available on this mobo. especially two firewire ports)
RAM: 4X1GB GSkill 800Mhz @ Rs 7,200
GPU: Sapphire 2600XT 512MB GDDR4 @ Rs 7.1K
HDDs: WD Raptor 150GB as primary disk/OS disk. The speed on Raptor disk will give a performance boost while encoding/decoding. Two 500GB WD will provide you with ample storage space for those monstorous videos. Total cost: around 21K
Power Supply: Corsair HX620W @ 6900. With 54amps on +12V rails, loads of connections for peripherals like HDs and Optical disks, efficiency of over 80% and a solid reputation and build this is a very nice PSU.
Optical Drives: anything that you feel will fit your needs
Cabinet: CM 690 @ Rs 4.3K
Monitor: Any DVI-D monitor or if possible HDMI supporting monitor that you think will suit your need

SMC is a good shop
 
TheIndian & 200mph thanks for the quick response! I would have liked to move to a Quad right away, but am worried about heat issues.

Does anyone have experience with the following mobos + Quad core on these issues? I found them listed on the website of Mumbai's Prime ABGB

#1 Abit IP35E (no on-board graphics, but 2 x firewire !!)

#2 Abit Fatal1ty FP-IN9SLI (no firewire, no on-board graphics) & I don't need SLI, really!

#3 Abit Fatal1ty F-I90HD (no firewire)

All of these have IDE 100 ports; which they take my larger IDE HDD's, all of which are in the range of 320-500 GB??? Or will I need an IDE 133 controller to use them onboard? I hope there's a software solution to this as I still can't dump my older IDE HDD's, external casings are undesirable options for my type of work.

#1+#3 seems to be an attractive option; I need to check out whether they are easily available in Delhi or TN/Chennai.

Anybody know the following Intel mobo options? Prices?

DP35DP (no video on board)

DQ35JO (DVI-D and VGA a bonus)

DQ35MP (no firewire)

Keep those opinions coming, please!
 
Morgoth, thanks for the specs also!! But that rig will up my power bills by a hefty margin! But thanks for the hidden tips; I will look into that WD Raptor 150. IP35 Pro? Which make? Intel? Any mobo in mind?

And do I really need an extra GPU? My monitor is switched off during processing most of the time! And that extra RAM? I currently use 1 GB and don't suppose 4 GB would benefit my processing speeds???

Were those prices based on recent Delhi quests?
 
yo bro u from tamilnadu eh? me too :)

anyway on the Rig, u need a lightweight one right?

Then the Anit Ip 35-E is a good option, even though u are not a gamer its good to have a card let s say a 8400 Gx (around 2-3.5K) to have a very good visual experience, if u plan to use Vista in the future then it'll be a great help. besides its one of the stable MOBOs available.

and dual core is more than enough so here goes the Config.

Intel E6750 - 7.8-8k

Abit IP35 E - 5.x k with Phoenix

Transcend 1*2GB 667MHz - 2k

will come around 15 give or take 500. The penryns wont be THAT great to wait for , even so the MOBO supports future upgrades so no problem on that.
 
kingkong said:
Morgoth, thanks for the specs also!! But that rig will up my power bills by a hefty margin! But thanks for the hidden tips; I will look into that WD Raptor 150. IP35 Pro? Which make? Intel? Any mobo in mind?
And do I really need an extra GPU? My monitor is switched off during processing most of the time! And that extra RAM? I currently use 1 GB and don't suppose 4 GB would benefit my processing speeds???
Were those prices based on recent Delhi quests?
Click to expand...
Hmmmm... fine so the PC has to be strictly for your Video Encoding/Conversion. It looks like you know your requirements well and can separate wheat from chaffe.
Still IMO following are a few must for your rig. Rest you can decide for yourself
Quadcore is must if you are into encoding and conversion stuff. Q6600 is the cheapest quadcore.
here is link for Q6600 and some benchmarks at Intel website:
Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Overview
Intel® Core™2 Quad Processors - Digital Office: Performance Overview
Intel® Core™2 Quad Processors - Digital Home: Performance Overview
You will definately feel the difference. In fact for any other task, even hardcore gaming, a dual core will do but for your stuff, a quad is way to go.

Abit IP 35-Pro is a good mobo. Yes it is based on Intel P35 chip. It has two firewire ports and ample other ports. Here is link for the mobo: Universal abit > Motherboard, Digital Speakers, iDome, AirPace, Multimedia

Most of the time you are doing data intensive work using applications which are resource hungry. Amount of RAM matters in you case.
Don't settle for anything less than 4GB.

A video card, though not must, is advisable for you. But keeping your requirements in mind even ATI 2600pro or 2400XT will do well. here are links for these cards:
ATI Radeonâ„¢ HD 2600 PRO - Overview
ATI Radeonâ„¢ HD 2400 Series - GPU Specifications

Because you will be running a lot of hard disks and optical disks as well as your quad core processor at high load you need a good ventilated Cabinet and at least 500W of power supply unit

Hope it helps :hap2:
 
memnon, morgoth,
Thanks for all the input.:) Now let me head for Nehru Place and find out prices. Will decide after that what I can afford right away. Received 3 insurance premium reminders this morning that puts things in a slightly different perspective for the moment. In any case, I will post rates after my Nehru Place trips, irrespective of whether I put together a rig now or not. Since I live in TN, it is often a better option (for the warranty thing) to source from Chennai and it may be a option to put things on hold for a month or two as I am not in a tearing hurry. However, the prospect of a new dual or quad machine makes me drool!:p
morgoth, I tend to use lightweight open source applications for my work most of the time and that does reduce my RAM requirements. Moreover, for video processing accuracy, I never open more then one processing thread at a time. I will compromise on that front and get 2GB DDR2 667/800 and upgrade later if required. I see myself building a lightweight rig for the immediate future and add on per requirement. But a 500W smps makes me shudder as I need to start thinking of a larger UPS and the bills. TN is facing a major power crisis!:( I have been using 400W and often switch off or disconnect devices I don't need, including monitors while processing. 400W handles upto 5 devices very well, even though the booting time goes up by a minute or so as devices take a little longer to start up. After the boot things are quite stable. I have mostly been using an open cabinet to dissipate heat better and the regular controlled vacuuming to remove dust, but let me have a look a better cabinet options, esp. with better SATA connectors....
Thanks again for the inputs, one and all!
 
Hi Kingkong,

You got chance to fill power of machines. Obviously I will suggest AMD, as per your work requirement. As my login name denotes I am AMD lover the reason behind is INTEL machine had harassed me so much when I suppose to bye my first machine.
I am design engineer & also have work like you. I am giving my system config. I hope it will be helpful to you. :cool2:

AMD X2 5600+ , Asus M2N-E, Western Digital 320 GB HDD, Kingston PC6400 Ram 4GB, Asus 8600GT Graphics Card, Asus DVD-RW, LG CD-Rom, Samsung 920NW LCD Monitor, I-Ball 5 way Mouse, Intex 600W Smps.

I don’t have installed any special cooling system. I have put 2 extra fans only. This buddy works for 16hr constantly without any problem. :hap2:

If you are looking for Value for Money Config., This will be one.
 
Figure out energy efficiency, and suddenly Intel might not be the best bet for what you want to do. I've posted about this earlier, maybe it was my very first or second post on this board.

It's not just which processor is quicker, but also about how much power it consumes to get the task done (in W/H). The way to calculate this for you will be to look at a similar benchmark to the type of work you normally do, that compares the processor you're currently using, along with the more modern alternatives. Then extrapolate that to your workload, and compare run times for both the alternatives. Finally, use the power consumption charts (full load in your case) to calculate the total power consumption. This way you'll arrive at the TCO figure, which may actually be far lower for AMD than Intel.

I've not worked it out for you, but cheap mobos with firewire and decent integrated graphics are much easier to come by on the AMD platform, the processors are available in a BE version for better power efficiency, and they cost much less than Intel. I'm only referring to dual core, though.

The Intels are faster, much faster than the AMDs, but that is the only advantage. The mobos are expensive, and processors are power hungry and hot. If you had an large, centrally airconditioned server room and a power budget supported by a large corporation, the Intel would be the way to go. I suspect you may not.

I have both the systems at my disposal, and the Intel is much more difficult to keep cool and noiseless than the AMD dual core. Under load the AMD gets about as warm as the Intel at idle. And the Intel has a cavernous server case at its disposal, where the AMD is shoehorned into a cabinet a bit bigger than a VCR. Sure it can't play the latest games, but it does what it needs to just fine.

Your call.
 
sangram said:
I've not worked it out for you, but cheap mobos with firewire and decent integrated graphics are much easier to come by on the AMD platform, the processors are available in a BE version for better power efficiency, and they cost much less than Intel. I'm only referring to dual core, though.

The Intels are faster, much faster than the AMDs, but that is the only advantage. The mobos are expensive, and processors are power hungry and hot. If you had an large, centrally airconditioned server room and a power budget supported by a large corporation, the Intel would be the way to go. I suspect you may not.
Click to expand...

I agree.. If you want a cheaper and cooler Rig then go with the AMD Dual Core series. The premium quality motherboards for AMD are much cheaper than their Intel counterparts.

On the other hand, if you want raw power then Intel Quad core is the way to go. btw dont even think about Pheonem for now. The cheapest I have seen a Pheonem 9500 in India is selling for 10.6k and for that kind of money you can get an Intel Q6600 which can easility beat the shit out of Phenom 9500.

Also since you said you main purpose is video encoding, you should have a look at the video encoding/decoding capabilities present in the AMD and nVidia graphics cards. Anyway I guess you may be using dedicated hardware for that making it redundant to get a high end GPU.
 
^^ only relevant for output, if he is encoding in the machine (to disk) then only the CPU is used, or a dedicated hardware processor.
 
amdlover, sangram, nemesis: you have me confused again. I have been a long time user of AMD for the cost factor and - come to think of it - no probs with heat! Please quick: give me your recommendations for mobos and proccys and I will look them up as well. The money saved could pay for extra RAM and etc.
As mentioned earlier, I switch off my monitor during encoding and I don't suppose a good GPU helps speed up encoding, so it's back to mobos with on-board graphics. Which do you think is the most powerful AMD proccessor available in India 8-10K? Please recommend mobos you know are easily available in India and - yes! -> future proof for the AMD Quad; anything there?
And approximate Indian prices from those who keep tabs once in a while, please, so that I have an idea before making queries.
 
sangram said:
^^ only relevant for output, if he is encoding in the machine (to disk) then only the CPU is used, or a dedicated hardware processor.
Click to expand...

Right! Encoding to disk and all tests/playback on video equipment. Only text editing (subtitling) is done on the machine and that doesn't need a dedicated GPU!
 
AFAIK all AM2 mobos are quad compatible, however don't hold out your hopes if you plan another upgrade really soon. I don't know if you're running this as a business - if you are, then you need to do some real calculations. Only one way will get you more money/reputation - you have to figure out which one. I am not sure I can answer that from here.

If you already have the math worked out an 8-10K for your processor is where you're at, then a X2 6000+ should probably fit your budget. However bear in mind that this is not energy efficient territory - at that performance level an Intel C2D probably matches the X2 for energy efficiency.

Putting you, as you said, right back where you started.

Have you actually done any math or trying to find a way by feel here?

Intel mobos starting at about 6K should offer Firewire and usable (not as good as AMD solutions) integrated video, plus about 4 SATA + 1 IDE = 6 drives. At the AMD end of things I've been seeing mobos with similar features go for less than 4K. You could probably get by cheaper but might lose the firewire - I don't know.

But that's as far as I'd go trying to recommend a business solution.

If your budget goes up to 10K per processor, pick up the Intel quad like you thought, and some midrange Intel original mobo, and you'll do just fine.

That's my solution by feel alone - so treat it for what it's worth - which is probably not much.
 
sangram thanks! I will wait for some more input and then decide. I am checking out reviews on AMD mobos and may finally decide on an AMD combination, but seeing the way things have been going with 45n tech. for AMD, I may just find myself groping for new motherboard if I decide to go in for a chip upgrade in the near future. Keeping my fingers crossed for some more time before deciding. I had my sights set on the Abit IP35Pro + E6750/6850, with the Abit's ability to accept Intel quad cores as well...... but the research continues!
 
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