Rahul Gandhi on Rs 12K minimum income plan for poor

How do they identify the poorest 20% - its rife for corruption

There is a dated socioeconomic and caste census to identify the poor though in practice I expect the goal will be to identify vote banks rather than the poor

We can expect that Aadhar will be further expanded in its scope to implement such schemes whether or not you are a beneficiary
 
RaGa and his supporters are under some sort of influence of abusive substance. no wonder he says 25,000 crore people and what not.
guys wake up and smell some coffee. don’t push your country in some debt trap. look who is securing your country and who is set to sell your country.
 
pratikb said:
RaGa and his supporters are under some sort of influence of abusive substance. no wonder he says 25,000 crore people and what not.
guys wake up and smell some coffee. don’t push your country in some debt trap. look who is securing your country and who is set to sell your country.
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Namard and his lovers are under duress. Wake up and smell the coffee.
 
we are not under duress from pappu.[DOUBLEPOST=1553959150][/DOUBLEPOST]mahagathbandhan and it’s duress is seen in media. open your eyes.
 
sharktale1212 said:
Let me try to bring the discussion back on topic.

Indian politician have been trying to remove poverty for a long time. Who can forget Indira Gandhi's "Garibi Hatao" slogan? (which btw was constantly mocked as "Garib ko hatao" as in remove the poor after emergency).

The other populist formula has been farmer loan waiver. First it happened back in the 90s by VP Singh government (who btw has the grandmaster of appeasement politics). It was supposed to be a one-time thing. Farmers get their burdened debt written off and now can move on with their lives. But what happened? Depending on what you read - The Hindu or ET both of them were either resounding success or abject failure.

UPA promised another one in 2009 for their 2nd term. Then like an never ending sequel, it has come up again last year - from both BJP and UPA. Our farmers need help but isn't it curious that why do governments keep announcing loan waivers? One hypothesis is that this is an easy way to get votes. But I think this goes beyond that:

One, the implementation of these waivers has been terrible - many rich farmers get undeserved waivers under such schemes.

Second, while loan waivers help farmers write off debts but it doesn't provide farmers enough to keep their livelihood going. There are still no effective plans for re-education like evening classes etc - on farming or general education like reading/writing. So, not only the crops suffer farmers frequently approach brokers who charge an extra 10-15% to get loans.

Three, government help on the crop front hasn't been great either - technology or otherwise. One of the agriculture surveys has recently been started in Karnataka after couple of decades. In the meantime both BJP and Congress had their governments and did nothing. The minimum support prices which is applicable only for certain crops. Food Security Bill has done no favors either because it has tied up the MSP with cereal crops even more. So, farmers growing non-cereal crops are facing hard times.

Now if we talk about this particular plan - without an actual implementation steps this is a simplistic political propaganda. And reading stuff like we will give 6k more for people earning 6k makes you question on how the 6k initial base was calculated?

Is he saying that Indian poverty starts at 3 dollars a day (200INR per day) ?
Rangarajan report which uses 972 per month base says 363 million or 29.5% of population falls under that ambit back in 2011/12.

What about people who aren't earning 6k?


There are many more concerns but we have to wait and see if UPA's another attempt at appeasement politics (first being farmer loan waiver in 2009) works and gets them into power. Then we can talk about actual implementation.
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my take is is any pol that ignores the farmers does so at their peril

It does not matter if the best leader in the world is PM, if the farmers disagree its the end of that PM.

However keeping the farmers on side means even the worst leader in the world can get re-elected

A pro forces stance helps too as traditionally meaning like forever soldiers have come from the farming community.

Jai kissan, jai jawan as Shastri said in the 60s is still true today.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
Do you know the criteria used for defining a village to have been electrified? Here it is.

Issued by MOP, vide their letter No. 42/1/2001-D(RE) dated 5th February 2004 and its corrigendum vide letter no. 42/1/2001-D(RE) dated 17th February 2004.) As per the new definition, a village would be declared as electrified, if :
  • Basic infrastructure such as Distribution Transformer and Distribution lines are provided in the inhabited locality as well as the Dalit Basti hamlet where it exists.
  • Electricity is provided to public places like Schools,Panchayat Office,Health Centers,Dispensaries,Community centers etc.
  • The number of households electrified should be at least 10% of the total number of households in the village.
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I do not see a problem here, the idea is quite simple. Getting a power line to a place that did not have one earlier.

Do you observe how there is no criteria that defines how many hours electricity has to be supplied? Do you also know that the last criteria is not even followed in recent years. It is good enough to glow a bulb for 5 min in the village community center and declare the village as electrified.
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here you are confusing supply with electrification. Who said electrification implies supply ? nobody this is something the opposition brings up just to dump the acheivement.

Power is a concurrent subject, if supply is a problem then that needs to be taken up with the state. The centre's job is done.

Do you also know that the electrification percentage based on this criteria was already at 95% before Modi took over and declared it 100%?

Here are also some numbers on rates of electrification per year as well. By the time Modi took over, there were only 18,000 villages remaining to be electrified as per the criteria chosen and he took 4 years to finish that.
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Took four years to get to 100% as got lines to far flung areas. Not done before because likely not economically viable this is why Modi said social responsibility. Train lines are still kept and not removed because they are not financially viable. Govt does not work on profit.

Look, all these points were addresses in that RSTV show i linked over a year ago yet you didn't bother to understand.

View attachment 79297


Despite what these parties claim based on this laughable criteria, only 8-10% of rural folk have access to electricity in the country. Many of them do not have power for up to 12 hours.

But special props to Modi for taking 95% to 100% at a snails pace and then conveniently only announcing the 100% electrification without mentioning the criteria or the fact that 95% of the work as already been done before he came in.
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A supply issue, demand outstrips supply. Build more power stations. Coal fired with scrubbers are cheap but all the enviro nuts get in the way of their construction. A year back i posted a report that studied the state of coal fired stations and found none used scrubbers. Instead of blocking coal fired stations the question should be why aren't scrubbers being used and pressure applied there. Once we see what they can do then the question whether we need more of the same or not can be suitably answered

That leaves hydro which is season dependent and nuclear which has a NIMBY problem particularly in my state.
 
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6pack said:
And what work? try reading newspapers for some time and stop your naming others here as a bhakt nonsense.
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haha, never thought one day you'd get called a bhakt

Failing that term then you are anit-national

That is what happens to dissenters

For the record, I'm against all political parties. I'd rather have one system rule like China if it meant better governance than 10 different parties made up of scummy erstwhile politicians from Congress and BJP or other parties who got booted out and made their own factions and are now joining to form alliances. Most politicians have been in one party or other at one time and blaming one or other party is no use now.
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That's how authoritarians begin.

Ever heard of China's 'social credit' system ? i'm sure it would make people more responsible and less likely to default. With today's tech it will ensure conformity to a level better than Stalin or the stasi could ever dream possible.. Since low scores mean inability to get train tickets or other sorts of subtle pressure. Either conform to a state defined ideal or get steadily ostracised by the system. You don't get to appeal. You can fix the score by donating to charity, whatever that charity means.
 
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blr_p said:
A supply issue, demand outstrips supply. Build more power stations. Coal fired with scrubbers are cheap but all the enviro nuts get in the way of their construction. A year back i posted a report that studied the state of coal fired stations and found none used scrubbers. Instead of blocking coal fired stations the question should be why aren't scrubbers being used and pressure applied there. Once we see what they can do then the question whether we need more of the same or not can be suitably answered

That leaves hydro which is season dependent and nuclear which has a NIMBY problem particularly in my state.
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Building an electric grid costs a lot of money. Especially for far-flung places, it makes much more sense to spend money on a local solar based plant supplemented by a small environment friendly coal plant which can be replaced in the future by the then latest battery tech once they become affordable. I remember reading somewhere about one NE state who fought with the centre on this very topic and asked for the centre to route the funds for solar panels instead while the state also further subsidizing private purchase of the same.

Meanwhile, the coal based plants were told to meet the new pollution norms, that were changed in 2015, by 2017. However, since most of them would fail to do so, the deadline has been shifted to 2020-24.
https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...ms-compliance-ge-power-md/article24626320.ece

I'll give you another example which is based on personal experience. I am from Himachal, which is a electricity surplus state. Yet, even after electrification, we have many voltage issues because the govt overloads the transformers. They won't upgrade the transformers based on demand and instead want the consumers to pay for the upgrade. I recently applied for a 20kVA load for a small farm based processing unit. The local transformer is just a 100kVa transformer serving nearly 60 households. Just for the households, they should be upgrading the transformer, but they choose to overload it instead hoping that all the households won't be consuming 100kVA at once. My demand has been rejected and have been asked to pay 5L for the transformer upgrade to a 250kVA one. There is no intermediate option. Since I didn't want to spend so much money because the govt will continue to sell the remaining capacity to others while making me pay for the whole upgrade, I asked for an alternative that was to install my personal transformer. For that I needed HT lines to come to my compound, which turns out will cost 15L. So now, I have to wait for the govt to upgrade the transformer instead or go and try to get the local MLA to get the transformer upgraded.
So there are issues even where the supply is available.
 
pratikb said:
RaGa and his supporters are under some sort of influence of abusive substance. no wonder he says 25,000 crore people and what not.
guys wake up and smell some coffee. don’t push your country in some debt trap. look who is securing your country and who is set to sell your country.
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Modi made absurd claims that he would deposit 15 lac in every citizens accounts. The worse thing is that many of his idiot bhakts believed it and argued about it till recently. They even speculated that Jan Dhan accounts were being created for that purpose. He is just as much of a retard as RaGa. He has destroyed the economy and industry in so many ways. He has already sold out the country for favors from the Adani's and the Ambani's. He and his followers are anti nationals who have no respect for the constitution. The only fate these kind sort of politicians deserve is be lined up on the streets and publicly executed for their crimes against the nation.. Maybe RaGa deserves the same for his retarded talk, but don't forget that Modi has bullshitted his way into power the same way and is no different.
 
rdst_1 said:
Meanwhile, the coal based plants were told to meet the new pollution norms, that were changed in 2015, by 2017. However, since most of them would fail to do so, the deadline has been shifted to 2020-24.
https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...ms-compliance-ge-power-md/article24626320.ece
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Why are they failing to do this is the question. Not rocket science. India invest over $8bn in the AIIDB. President of AIIDB is Indian. India is second largest shareholder with China being the largest. I was given to understand the reason India went ahead was AIIDB is transparent unlike BRI. And loans for coal powered stations would be sanctioned which isn't possible with the WB as they have their carbon agenda.

As far as grid goes its there already. The connections have been made to far flung place already. This means now there will be even more demand.

I'll give you another example which is based on personal experience. I am from Himachal, which is a electricity surplus state. Yet, even after electrification, we have many voltage issues because the govt overloads the transformers. They won't upgrade the transformers based on demand and instead want the consumers to pay for the upgrade. I recently applied for a 20kVA load for a small farm based processing unit. The local transformer is just a 100kVa transformer serving nearly 60 households. Just for the households, they should be upgrading the transformer, but they choose to overload it instead hoping that all the households won't be consuming 100kVA at once. My demand has been rejected and have been asked to pay 5L for the transformer upgrade to a 250kVA one. There is no intermediate option. Since I didn't want to spend so much money because the govt will continue to sell the remaining capacity to others while making me pay for the whole upgrade, I asked for an alternative that was to install my personal transformer. For that I needed HT lines to come to my compound, which turns out will cost 15L. So now, I have to wait for the govt to upgrade the transformer instead or go and try to get the local MLA to get the transformer upgraded.
So there are issues even where the supply is available.
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A nice pickle :(
 
pratikb said:
RaGa and his supporters are under some sort of influence of abusive substance. no wonder he says 25,000 crore people and what not.
guys wake up and smell some coffee. don’t push your country in some debt trap. look who is securing your country and who is set to sell your country.
Click to expand...
Way i see it is the choice is between Modi as PM or some kichdi sarkar whose PM choice is uncertain since all leaders in that grand coalition would like a shot

In a talk Sanjeev Sanyal was saving they have reduced the fiscal deficit from nearly 9% to 4%. Not possible to do that without pain. And we still have to see if people will forgive that. In any case they have brought the economy to a level now where it can be further improved. If people give them a chance. I see good things ahead if they get that chance.

Last NDA did the same thing and term after that was good despite Vajpayee losing. Term after that all the rot returned and we were back in a mess again.

The world is going through an uncertain phase right now. Just see US, UK & Australia (had 6 or 7 PM's in last decade already).

In comparison this country seems much more stable and needs a steady hand on the tiller for the future. Stable economic policy, stable foreign policy. Predictability so FDI continues. Stable legal environment etc , etc. Only a party that secures an absolute majority can provide all these things not some weak coalition or hung parliament.

The world is overdue for a global recession. It will happen within the next five years. The economy will take hits as a result. It it is healthy then it can handle the shock and recover. The public burden will be less if capable people are at the helm.
 
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Lord Nemesis said:
Modi made absurd claims that he would deposit 15 lac in every citizens accounts. The worse thing is that many of his idiot bhakts believed it and argued about it till recently. They even speculated that Jan Dhan accounts were being created for that purpose. He is just as much of a retard as RaGa. He has destroyed the economy and industry in so many ways. He has already sold out the country for favors from the Adani's and the Ambani's. He and his followers are anti nationals who have no respect for the constitution. The only fate these kind sort of politicians deserve is be lined up on the streets and publicly executed for their crimes against the nation.. Maybe RaGa deserves the same for his retarded talk, but don't forget that Modi has bullshitted his way into power the same way and is no different.
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can you show me where exactly he said,it would be deposited in account?
all he said is that much amount is lying in foreign accounts and it was equivalent.
can you show me video where he said that amount is to be brought back and deposited in each account?>
 
You can easily find the video. He claimed that he will get back black money and that it would be enough to deposit 15 lac for free into every account. Maybe he didn't make a direct vow, but the intent of the statement in the speech is clear which is to polarize the crowd using that proposition. His retarded supporters and obviously the BJP IT wing kept spreading this propaganda that the money is going into be deposited. During demonetization also, that propaganda was spread rampart. If there was nothing to it, Amit Shah and Nitin Gadkari would not have had to talk about it at all.

But then I guess since since his original claim of bringing back black money is just as bogus, it does not matter. Hint. I would say that success criteria of that is almost all BJP and congress politicians being in jail and all their black money being seized. I guess we can say that Modi made no claims at all since he has nothing to show.
 
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