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Skilled
Go make oneI think we must have a dedicated thread here on TE for highlighting regional cuisines from all the cities and states in India.
Go make oneI think we must have a dedicated thread here on TE for highlighting regional cuisines from all the cities and states in India.
Damn nice!, I mostly make Foccacia and Pizza base at home, (tried sourdough but the starter didnt survive in the summers ; ) , do you have any recommendations for cookbooks/youtube channels for baking which specifically caters to Indian temps/groceries? I am a veggie guy and my mom would kill me if I bought any eggs, so would to know any resource I can use to bake more stuff at homeThey are only ADVERTISED to fool andh ramdev bhakts. No biscuit is 100% ata. Btw pure ata biscuits are extremely brittle if you ask me as my wife is a prof. baker and chef. and we make our own cookies, biscuits, pizza base and even breads and burger buns at home..
Far as I know this is down to the flour used and to get the real thing you have to use imported flour which costs more unless you buy in large quantities. Since this will be maida health wise people recommend against it on a regular basis.Damn nice!, I mostly make Foccacia and Pizza base at home, (tried sourdough but the starter didnt survive in the summers ; ) , do you have any recommendations for cookbooks/youtube channels for baking which specifically caters to Indian temps/groceries?
Double 0 Tipo flour does make a difference (I bought it from a specialty store) for pizza but it's not too much, if you buy any local really "fine" maida you can get there 90% of the way.Far as I know this is down to the flour used and to get the real thing you have to use imported flour which costs more unless you buy in large quantities. Since this will be maida health wise people recommend against it on a regular basis.
How is "Lotus Biscoff"? I have seen desserts (cheesecakes, milkshake) and spreads based on this.
Osmania Biscuits go well with Irani Chai. You have to dunk it in tea and then eat it.I've recently taken a liking to Rusk biscuits. Have tried them from Bisk Farm and Britannia. Love the Britannia Toastea Butter ones more. Absolutely detest how the ones that come with Elaichi taste though so I avoid that flavor.
I'm planning to buy a pack of cookies from Karachi Bakery. These are the ones available:
Osmania Bakery Cookies
Fruit Bakery Cookies
Cashew Bakery Cookies
Double Delight Cashew & Fruit Bakery Cookies
Which one/ ones are good from the above?
Double 0 Tipo flour does make a difference (I bought it from a specialty store) for pizza but it's not too much, if you buy any local really "fine" maida you can get there 90% of the way.........
.......,The main issue with India is temperature. it's really easy to **** up your dough if you leave it out and the proofing won't be as good if you leave it in the fridge. that's why I'm looking for any Indian specific resource where we can source incredients here itself and any other parameters like water temp room temp, flour-water ratios etc are geared towards Indian climate.
how do you bloom the yeast in ice water? I mainly makes pizzas/garlic knots and foccacia, and what I do is, I put the dough in my room with AC set to 18c and let it proof normally for a couple of hours (for stretch and fold) and then place it in the fridge for cold fermentation (atleast 4-5 days), one question, how do I control the temps if dough gets above 28c? in YT vids, I see bakers just adding some ice cubes in the dough but thats not possible with hand kneading. recently what I have seen thats really helped is making the dough in a taut ball, instead of patting it down in the bowl for fermentation, it helps avoid overflow and the dough definitely has way better gluten structure, but I have never passed the "window test" for the dough, not sure whats wrong but I figure its probably the kneading.- Ice water for making yeasted dough and pastry doughs. Aim for keeping the dough under 28C as a general rule of thumb. Avoid proofing doughs in Indian room temps and rather do the proofing in refrigerated environment instead. This will increase the proofing time but will develop the flavor a bit more as well. Get a candy/kitchen thermometer.
ah thanks, didnt know this, I get maida thats normally used for making rusks etc in factories, and just use that, not sure of the brand or the parameters you mentioned since its directly sourced from a local factory, but its not as "fine" as 00 for sure.- For breads you need. a strong white or whole wheat flour, no need to focus on flour grades like Double 0 if you are a normal homecook looking to make some breads.
Strong = >11.5g protein content per 100g (for Breads)
Weak = <11g protein content per 100g (for cookies, cakes, soufflés)
I'll be trying this out thanks!- Some strong flour recommendations in India: Ahaar Maida (Amazon, 350kcal protein per 100g), Amul Whole Wheat Flour (Amul Website, Local Stores, 12g protein per 100g)
how do you bloom the yeast in ice water? I mainly makes pizzas/garlic knots and foccacia, and what I do is, I put the dough in my room with AC set to 18c and let it proof normally for a couple of hours (for stretch and fold) and then place it in the fridge for cold fermentation (atleast 4-5 days), one question, how do I control the temps if dough gets above 28c? in YT vids, I see bakers just adding some ice cubes in the dough but thats not possible with hand kneading. recently what I have seen thats really helped is making the dough in a taut ball, instead of patting it down in the bowl for fermentation, it helps avoid overflow and the dough definitely has way better gluten structure, but I have never passed the "window test" for the dough, not sure whats wrong but I figure its probably the kneading.
ah thanks, didnt know this, I get maida thats normally used for making rusks etc in factories, and just use that, not sure of the brand or the parameters you mentioned since its directly sourced from a local factory, but its not as "fine" as 00 for sure.
I'll be trying this out thanks!
Just some last questions , any recommendations for a stand mixer thats not a kitchen air or anywhere I can source it which will not break my wallet? and any recommendations for baking cookbook with Indian climates in mind? I tried a lot of recipes from asian youtubers and almost none worked out at all.
ah yeah, I was following tasty's recipe for pizza dough and they add some oil before kneading the dough, but if I dont add oil, its near impossible to knead it after its mixed, so is autolysing the way?- Your dough-making practices are mostly correct. If your dough doesn't pass the window pane test, it is not ready. Failing the window pane test even after ample kneading could be due to a variety of reasons, weak flour or high temperature being the most common ones. One error I have seen the most though in my line of work is the addition of too much oil/fat (if it's in the recipe) early which suppresses the gluten development of an already weak dough. Always add oil later, which is a common practice in traditional Asian/Indian bread making; called as "loch lagana" in Hindi/Marwari by my mom and which means to enrich the dough after it has been kneaded and developed. My mom does this technique for her stuffed parantha dough. You will see this in action in any brioche recipe in YT as well, they add the fat after the first phase of kneading.
but what if you over-hydrate the dough? I hold half a cup of water in reserve and then pour it all in (if I hold more in reserve, the dough will not form together and will be shaggy like in those cookie/pastry doughs where very less kneading is required. one way I'm thinking is of dunking ice cubes in already ice-cold water and then using that to control dough temps.- Shaping the dough into a good taut ball before proof is a good practice in general. It makes it managable as it expands. Continue doing that.
- You control the dough temperature by managing the hydration when hand kneading. You know that the dough will warm up as we knead it (due to heat energy being produced by work), so you underfeed liquid to the dough and supplement the dough periodically in between with the premeasured chilled liquid. This keeps the dough cold throughout the process. Nothing to do with the machine kneading or hands, it's just when and how you add the chilled liquid. Learn baker's percentages and manage hydration levels accordingly.
ah, yeah I tried one of those, definitely not on the level of a kitchen Aid, I would buy one in a heartbeat but that thing retails for 300$ in US and its already expensive there and here its more than 500$, and thats not even counting the price of attachments- I have a cheap Inalsa stand mixer that I bought after working my ass off in my high school years and it does 700g of dough at max at a time. After going to culinary school, I mostly revert to hand kneading and shaping the breads regardless as it gives me a better idea and it's more efficient for small batches, unlike bulk batches in a professional setting. It does its job, but it's not at the level of a KitchenAid.
I dunno how you manage kneading it for even 5 minutes, I give up after 2 minutes when my hand is really crampingBreadmaking in the end is a huge endeavor to master, so do not get demotivated if you aren't able to nail it on the first 10-12 tries. It takes years of practice to reach a level where you understand the dough, even for chefs. Keep at it and feel how every action affects the dough and its nature. You will get there.
Damn those rolls are on fire! the only bread I have really succeeded at is Foccacia but thats way too easy, my family loves my pizza but I have never managed to do a proper dough that passes the window pane test. I'll try using ice cold water as that seems to be the worst offender in all the things you mentioned, One thing I am thinking of refrigerating the flour too to maintain temps.The first bread I made, was supposed to be a baguette btw (around 2016? I think):
View attachment 207405
The bread I make now (Herbed Hoagie Rolls, Subway style, WW flour):
View attachment 207404
ah yeah, I was following tasty's recipe for pizza dough and they add some oil before kneading the dough, but if I dont add oil, its near impossible to knead it after its mixed, so is autolysing the way?
but what if you over-hydrate the dough? I hold half a cup of water in reserve and then pour it all in (if I hold more in reserve, the dough will not form together and will be shaggy like in those cookie/pastry doughs where very less kneading is required. one way I'm thinking is of dunking ice cubes in already ice-cold water and then using that to control dough temps.
Are there any resources to learn more about the percentages/hydration levels that you would recommend? I mainly follow King Arthur Baking Company on YT (main recommendation r/Breadit)
I dunno how you manage kneading it for even 5 minutes, I give up after 2 minutes when my hand is really cramping
After all the tips this is the way I am thinking:
1. refrigerate the flour and use ice-cold water with ice- cubes
2. mix the dough together in a bowl, and let it rest for at least 10 minutes (to make it kneadable without oil, kinda short autolysing?)
3. knead it for atleast 5 minutes (if I can manage that, big if for me ngl), add oil after this step
4. shape it in taut bowl and leave it to proof for 3-4 days minimum.
5. and then the normal baking process, shape the dough in balls, leave it to proof for 30 minutes, before baking the pizza.
I think its the flour then, sometimes the same qty of water will overhydrate it and then sometimes it'll barely make it wet- Can't over-hydrate something if you have measured it beforehand. A bowl with measured dry ingredients (in this case flour), and another bowl with liquid (water, juice whatever you are using to make the dough). Both chilled to compensate for the heat. Remove ice cubes from the equation if you are not sure of how much they hydrate the dough. Start with 60-70% of the liquid and knead, add the remaining bit by bit (keep the remaining liquid cool) to cool the dough throughout the process.
XD- It's time to hit the gym not gonna lie
just one thing, how much time does it take you to knead your flour till it passes the window pane test? I tried kneading once for 10 minutes but it barely made a difference in the dough. I am assuming it was because of the weaker flour and high temps1. Pre-measure and chill. Avoid using ice cubes if you are unsure about hydration levels. Just chill the ingredients instead as much as you can.
2. Mix the dough and a bit of liquid beforehand to autolyze to reduce work and stickiness.
3. Knead, hydrating and cooling bit by bit until the dough is ready, i.e. it is smooth, supple, and passes a window pane test, and then introduce oil/fats + salt. No shortcuts.
4. Shape and cold-proof until needed whenever in the week.
5. Take it out of refrigeration, last proof after shaping until it is double in size by volume (does not take 20-30 minutes always, depending on dough strength and climate), then bake.
how much weight can it handle at once?I bought Agaro Stand Mixer for < ₹8K. It is definitely not as sturdy as a Kitchen Aid but for the price it is good. Passing the window pane test is a breeze with the machine doing the kneading.