blr_p
Skilled
Go make one
Biscuits/ Cookies Recommendations
- Thread starter Black_Hawk
- Start date
MiteshR
Disciple
I don't know if this is just me, but I love the cookies that the nagori chai walas keep at their tea stalls. Its from—Star Bakery—and they're round, coconut cookies that taste amazing and have the distinctive characteristic of instantly dissipating as soon as you bite into them, and they are not that sweet, also aiyengar bakery nankhatais are good but they are over sweetened, from Mumbai.
Damn nice!, I mostly make Foccacia and Pizza base at home, (tried sourdough but the starter didnt survive in the summers ; ) , do you have any recommendations for cookbooks/youtube channels for baking which specifically caters to Indian temps/groceries? I am a veggie guy and my mom would kill me if I bought any eggs, so would to know any resource I can use to bake more stuff at home
and P.S. yes, whole atta biscuits or basically anything tastes like crap, have tried almost everything from pizza-bread-cookies, they all are either too brittle/rough or way too hard to eat, pure atta doesnt have much gluten development if any, and gluten is what you want when you want to bake anything
for all the Karachi recos, is this the shop online? https://order.karachibakery.com/shop/c/famous_biscuits_1348 seems a little expensive but would try them out if they are worth it
Last edited:
blr_p
Skilled
Far as I know this is down to the flour used and to get the real thing you have to use imported flour which costs more unless you buy in large quantities. Since this will be maida health wise people recommend against it on a regular basis.
Local flour won't work as well.
Or have you figured out a workaround?
Double 0 Tipo flour does make a difference (I bought it from a specialty store) for pizza but it's not too much, if you buy any local really "fine" maida you can get there 90% of the way.
The real difference happens in water content, temps and how you are kneading it, for the best results you need a stand mixer (been pining for a kitchen aid for years but that shit easily costs 55-60k), hand kneading will never give you the best results unless you are really willing to put in the elbow grease (atleast 10-15 minutes of hard kneading),
The best way is to get normal maida, yeast, make a shaggy dough and employ the "stretch and fold" method for kneading, this gives me around 80-90% quality as I would with a stand mixer/proper hand kneading
The main issue with India is temperature. it's really easy to **** up your dough if you leave it out and the proofing won't be as good if you leave it in the fridge. that's why I'm looking for any Indian specific resource where we can source incredients here itself and any other parameters like water temp room temp, flour-water ratios etc are geared towards Indian climate.
From what I've been doing over the years. the best months to make any bread etc as a home cook is during winter, my sourdough starter actually thrived and the dough was way more forgiving too with regards to any mistake.
Ssreek
Adept
Subhan bakery's Osmania biscuits are great. I've tried Osmania biscuits from Pista House, Karachi, Cafe Nilofar and couple of other popular stores, but subhan's are better than all of them.
Then there's 'Good Day Pista Badam cookies', these are average when taken directly, but feel tasty when dipped in tea. Also no need to take a rescue mission for broken biscuits inside tea, they mostly don't fall inside the cup easily.
I have yet to find some good coconut cookies though. There are so many in market and specially made by individual bakeries, but still didn't find anything good.
Then there's 'Good Day Pista Badam cookies', these are average when taken directly, but feel tasty when dipped in tea. Also no need to take a rescue mission for broken biscuits inside tea, they mostly don't fall inside the cup easily.
I have yet to find some good coconut cookies though. There are so many in market and specially made by individual bakeries, but still didn't find anything good.
atg666
Disciple
Coffee Cookies
Your love for coffee now comes in a form of a cookie, made with a rich blend of coffee extract, jaggery, oatmeal powder and vegan butter, these cookies will surely fill your room with a scent of freshly brewed sweet coffee. Ingredients List: Made with Oatmeal Powder, Vegan, No Refined Sugar...
snackible.com
Black_Hawk
Skilled
I've recently taken a liking to Rusk biscuits. Have tried them from Bisk Farm and Britannia. Love the Britannia Toastea Butter ones more. Absolutely detest how the ones that come with Elaichi taste though so I avoid that flavor.
I'm planning to buy a pack of cookies from Karachi Bakery. These are the ones available:
Osmania Bakery Cookies
Fruit Bakery Cookies
Cashew Bakery Cookies
Double Delight Cashew & Fruit Bakery Cookies
Which one/ ones are good from the above?
I'm planning to buy a pack of cookies from Karachi Bakery. These are the ones available:
Osmania Bakery Cookies
Fruit Bakery Cookies
Cashew Bakery Cookies
Double Delight Cashew & Fruit Bakery Cookies
Which one/ ones are good from the above?
Osmania Biscuits go well with Irani Chai. You have to dunk it in tea and then eat it.
Black_Hawk
Skilled
Been ordering these pretty regularly now...
These taste lovely! Soft and buttery and even 1 biscuit is quite heavy after you consume it. They are a tad salty but when you eat them slowly the taste is a beautiful blend of smooth buttery goodness! I find these available on Blinkit only and order the packs from there.
These taste lovely! Soft and buttery and even 1 biscuit is quite heavy after you consume it. They are a tad salty but when you eat them slowly the taste is a beautiful blend of smooth buttery goodness! I find these available on Blinkit only and order the packs from there.
- Ice water for making yeasted dough and pastry doughs. Aim for keeping the dough under 28C as a general rule of thumb. Avoid proofing doughs in Indian room temps and rather do the proofing in refrigerated environment instead. This will increase the proofing time but will develop the flavor a bit more as well. Get a candy/kitchen thermometer.
- For breads you need. a strong white or whole wheat flour, no need to focus on flour grades like Double 0 if you are a normal homecook looking to make some breads.
Strong = >11.5g protein content per 100g (for Breads)
Weak = <11g protein content per 100g (for cookies, cakes, soufflés)
- Some strong flour recommendations in India: Ahaar Maida (Amazon, 350kcal protein per 100g), Amul Whole Wheat Flour (Amul Website, Local Stores, 12g protein per 100g)
how do you bloom the yeast in ice water? I mainly makes pizzas/garlic knots and foccacia, and what I do is, I put the dough in my room with AC set to 18c and let it proof normally for a couple of hours (for stretch and fold) and then place it in the fridge for cold fermentation (atleast 4-5 days), one question, how do I control the temps if dough gets above 28c? in YT vids, I see bakers just adding some ice cubes in the dough but thats not possible with hand kneading. recently what I have seen thats really helped is making the dough in a taut ball, instead of patting it down in the bowl for fermentation, it helps avoid overflow and the dough definitely has way better gluten structure, but I have never passed the "window test" for the dough, not sure whats wrong but I figure its probably the kneading.
ah thanks, didnt know this, I get maida thats normally used for making rusks etc in factories, and just use that, not sure of the brand or the parameters you mentioned since its directly sourced from a local factory, but its not as "fine" as 00 for sure.
I'll be trying this out thanks!
Just some last questions
, any recommendations for a stand mixer thats not a kitchen air or anywhere I can source it which will not break my wallet? and any recommendations for baking cookbook with Indian climates in mind? I tried a lot of recipes from asian youtubers and almost none worked out at all.
how do you bloom the yeast in ice water? I mainly makes pizzas/garlic knots and foccacia, and what I do is, I put the dough in my room with AC set to 18c and let it proof normally for a couple of hours (for stretch and fold) and then place it in the fridge for cold fermentation (atleast 4-5 days), one question, how do I control the temps if dough gets above 28c? in YT vids, I see bakers just adding some ice cubes in the dough but thats not possible with hand kneading. recently what I have seen thats really helped is making the dough in a taut ball, instead of patting it down in the bowl for fermentation, it helps avoid overflow and the dough definitely has way better gluten structure, but I have never passed the "window test" for the dough, not sure whats wrong but I figure its probably the kneading.
ah thanks, didnt know this, I get maida thats normally used for making rusks etc in factories, and just use that, not sure of the brand or the parameters you mentioned since its directly sourced from a local factory, but its not as "fine" as 00 for sure.
I'll be trying this out thanks!
Just some last questions
- You don't need to bloom yeast. It was done to check if the yeast culture was alive before our sophisticated storage methods became widespread and the practice stuck. If your batch of yeast (doesn't matter if it's active or bakers) is relatively new, you can directly incorporate it into the dough along with the wet ingredients. You can periodically check the yeast's strength by blooming a bit in room-temperature water like once a month to keep a record of when to replace it.
- Your dough-making practices are mostly correct. If your dough doesn't pass the window pane test, it is not ready. Failing the window pane test even after ample kneading could be due to a variety of reasons, weak flour or high temperature being the most common ones. One error I have seen the most though in my line of work is the addition of too much oil/fat (if it's in the recipe) early which suppresses the gluten development of an already weak dough. Always add oil later, which is a common practice in traditional Asian/Indian bread making; called as "loch lagana" in Hindi/Marwari by my mom and which means to enrich the dough after it has been kneaded and developed. My mom does this technique for her stuffed parantha dough. You will see this in action in any brioche recipe in YT as well, they add the fat after the first phase of kneading.
- Shaping the dough into a good taut ball before proof is a good practice in general. It makes it managable as it expands. Continue doing that.
- You control the dough temperature by managing the hydration when hand kneading. You know that the dough will warm up as we knead it (due to heat energy being produced by work), so you underfeed liquid to the dough and supplement the dough periodically in between with the premeasured chilled liquid. This keeps the dough cold throughout the process. Nothing to do with the machine kneading or hands, it's just when and how you add the chilled liquid. Learn baker's percentages and manage hydration levels accordingly.
- I have a cheap Inalsa stand mixer that I bought after working my ass off in my high school years and it does 700g of dough at max at a time. After going to culinary school, I mostly revert to hand kneading and shaping the breads regardless as it gives me a better idea and it's more efficient for small batches, unlike bulk batches in a professional setting. It does its job, but it's not at the level of a KitchenAid.
Breadmaking in the end is a huge endeavor to master, so do not get demotivated if you aren't able to nail it on the first 10-12 tries. It takes years of practice to reach a level where you understand the dough, even for chefs. Keep at it and feel how every action affects the dough and its nature. You will get there.
The first bread I made, was supposed to be a baguette btw
(around 2016? I think):The bread I make now (Herbed Hoagie Rolls, Subway style, WW flour):
Learning Resources:
- Bake with Jack In-depth dough handling, a bit of science.
- John Kirkwood Bread recipes I would follow if I wasn't a chef. Also, the gentleman sounds like the original Winnie the Pooh VA, very relaxing to listen to and learn.
- Shivesh Basic baking recipes, that are oriented for Indian households, but often are not perfectly ratioed according to my tests.
- Bread Science: The Chemistry and Craft of Making Bread by Emily Jane Buehler.
Last edited:
ah yeah, I was following tasty's recipe for pizza dough and they add some oil before kneading the dough, but if I dont add oil, its near impossible to knead it after its mixed, so is autolysing the way?
but what if you over-hydrate the dough? I hold half a cup of water in reserve and then pour it all in (if I hold more in reserve, the dough will not form together and will be shaggy like in those cookie/pastry doughs where very less kneading is required. one way I'm thinking is of dunking ice cubes in already ice-cold water and then using that to control dough temps.
Are there any resources to learn more about the percentages/hydration levels that you would recommend? I mainly follow King Arthur Baking Company on YT (main recommendation r/Breadit)
ah, yeah I tried one of those, definitely not on the level of a kitchen Aid, I would buy one in a heartbeat but that thing retails for 300$ in US and its already expensive there and here its more than 500$, and thats not even counting the price of attachments
I dunno how you manage kneading it for even 5 minutes, I give up after 2 minutes when my hand is really cramping
Damn those rolls are on fire! the only bread I have really succeeded at is Foccacia but thats way too easy, my family loves my pizza but I have never managed to do a proper dough that passes the window pane test. I'll try using ice cold water as that seems to be the worst offender in all the things you mentioned, One thing I am thinking of refrigerating the flour too to maintain temps.The first bread I made, was supposed to be a baguette btw
View attachment 207405
The bread I make now (Herbed Hoagie Rolls, Subway style, WW flour):
View attachment 207404
After all the tips this is the way I am thinking:
1. refrigerate the flour and use ice-cold water with ice- cubes
2. mix the dough together in a bowl, and let it rest for at least 10 minutes (to make it kneadable without oil, kinda short autolysing?)
3. knead it for atleast 5 minutes (if I can manage that, big if for me ngl), add oil after this step
4. shape it in taut bowl and leave it to proof for 3-4 days minimum.
5. and then the normal baking process, shape the dough in balls, leave it to proof for 30 minutes, before baking the pizza.
what do you think of this? anything else I can change out?
- You can leave it after an initial mix for some time to autolyze. Salt and oils stop the autolyzing, a point to remember. Wet your hands slightly and get to work. Dough sticking in the initial stages is natural.
- Can't over-hydrate something if you have measured it beforehand. A bowl with measured dry ingredients (in this case flour), and another bowl with liquid (water, juice whatever you are using to make the dough). Both chilled to compensate for the heat. Remove ice cubes from the equation if you are not sure of how much they hydrate the dough. Start with 60-70% of the liquid and knead, add the remaining bit by bit (keep the remaining liquid cool) to cool the dough throughout the process.
- I edited my previous comment to include resources. Check.
I dunno how you manage kneading it for even 5 minutes, I give up after 2 minutes when my hand is really cramping
- It's time to hit the gym not gonna lie
1. refrigerate the flour and use ice-cold water with ice- cubes
2. mix the dough together in a bowl, and let it rest for at least 10 minutes
3. knead it for atleast 5 minutes (if I can manage that, big if for me ngl), add oil after this step
4. shape it in taut bowl and leave it to proof for 3-4 days minimum.
5. and then the normal baking process, shape the dough in balls, leave it to proof for 30 minutes, before baking the pizza.
1. Pre-measure and chill. Avoid using ice cubes if you are unsure about hydration levels. Just chill the ingredients instead as much as you can.
2. Mix the dough and a bit of liquid beforehand to autolyze to reduce work and stickiness.
3. Knead, hydrating and cooling bit by bit until the dough is ready, i.e. it is smooth, supple, and passes a window pane test, and then introduce oil/fats + salt. No shortcuts.
4. Shape and cold-proof until needed whenever in the week.
5. Take it out of refrigeration, last proof after shaping until it is double in size by volume (does not take 20-30 minutes always, depending on dough strength and climate), then bake.
I think its the flour then, sometimes the same qty of water will overhydrate it and then sometimes it'll barely make it wet
XD- It's time to hit the gym not gonna lie
just one thing, how much time does it take you to knead your flour till it passes the window pane test? I tried kneading once for 10 minutes but it barely made a difference in the dough. I am assuming it was because of the weaker flour and high temps
And damn, those Ahaar peeps are looting on amazon, 200rs for a kilo when I can get the same for 50rs local but I'm assuming its because of protein content and btw have you tried urban platter for their exotic stuff? like they sell 00 tipo flour, sticky rice, mochi etc
EDIT: found this brand not sure how good it is (https://www.amazon.in/stores/TWF/page/DD468CDE-4F18-4655-A131-B99F139FBF92)
I bought Agaro Stand Mixer for < ₹8K. It is definitely not as sturdy as a Kitchen Aid but for the price it is good. Passing the window pane test is a breeze with the machine doing the kneading.
how much weight can it handle at once?