News Apple Announces Redesigned Mac Mini With M4 and M4 Pro Chips

ROFLMAO. I give you options to come around and your come back is 'not a problem for me'. Do you know how many asked help to sort this and got suggestions on reddit alone? All I said is that 'I do not turn off my PC' is not the correct response for a design flaw. Also, I am saying this again. Turning off devices when not in use is good for environment, especially when you look at things 'at scale'. For this as well, you guys started veering into 'lights, fans' diverting from the issue/problem at hand.

Seriously, how far will you go to blindly support Apple. And all this just to support that stupid placement of power button? Like I said, understand the OS first. Glad that you got Mackintosh to work (like thousands from that time), time for you to learn how to use the OS on apple hardware now. If you feel that me asking you to learn how to get through these issues is insulting, can't help.

The only people triggered here are you two vehemently supporting Apple, when I said that the power button placement is wrong. You guys went to windows and its sleep mode hiccups (irrelevant to the topic), tried to prove how much power a windows PC consumes (absolutely irrelevant to the discussion), to how apps need to be reopened again (wrong argument), to how arrangement goes off (solution exists).

It is what it is. A bad decision and supporting that by saying 'we never turn it off' is typical iSheep mentality. So, tell me why are you are getting so triggered and defensive about Apple and their usual 'one stupid design element per product'.

Let me add your quote here. If you still cannot agree that people can happily turn their Macs off and boot up and start from same point, you are at this point blindly clinging to your argument.

rsaeon said:

That has never worked reliably for me across multiple monitors and mission control. It's worked fine on a MacBook Pro with either a single thunderbolt or HDMI monitor but not on my M1 mini with additional displays.

This has to be said, but it doesn't sound like you have much experience with macOS on a desktop.

I'm not even working here:

View attachment 214294

But they have never reopened in the way I have them set up, it just doesn't work with multiple monitors and it's a known issue the last time I looked it up.

But then again, that doesn't fit your iSheep narrative, does it? Whatever gives you life, I guess.

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TL;DR Learn to turn devices off when not in use (for long hours atleast) and learn to accept a design flaw.

See, that was never my point. I don't care what other people do. For me, it's an improvement that the power button is at the bottom because of that one time that I accidently turned off my Mac mini. Maybe I'm not alone, a few searches show that others feel the same. That doesn't validate my opinion in my head. I don't need anyone to validate what works for me.

Why do you think I need a solution or I have a problem? It's not an issue for me. Do you need me to agree with you in order to feel better?

I tried the reopen windows on reboot setting once out of curiosity, it didn't work. But I didn't need it to work, so I don't care. It's never worked anytime I tried it out, like when I need to reboot to get system-wide text-to-speech working again after it's crashed. But I don't care beyond learning that it's a known issue for those who do care.

Do you follow that logic or do we keep on going in circles?

I don't use windows. Did I mention windows? You're confusing @superczar's points with mine. I don't have any issue with anything, I'm just curiously puzzled by how much mild vitriol you're spewing out here.

But seriously, are you not worried about the karmic debt you're gathering from your unrelenting name-calling and the overall derisive tone you have towards people who disagree with you?

I think this thread should be closed, it has ran its course of m4 mac mini announcement, and has devolved into platform arguments and name calling. If anyone has any specific questions regarding the m4 mini they can create a new thread instead.

rsaeon said:

I don't use windows. Did I mention windows? You're confusing @superczar's points with mine. I don't have any issue with anything, I'm just curiously puzzled by how much mild vitriol you're spewing out here.

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Did you not see my words 'both of you', referencing both of you in my reply?

rsaeon said:

Do you follow that logic or do we keep on going in circles?

I don't use windows. Did I mention windows? You're confusing @superczar's points with mine. I don't have any issue with anything, I'm just curiously puzzled by how much mild vitriol you're spewing out here.

But seriously, are you not worried about the karmic debt you're gathering from your unrelenting name-calling and the overall derisive tone you have towards people who disagree with you?

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These exact questions, ask yourself. I am just correcting few of you blindly supporting Apple design flaw and I am just asking you folks to try to be better towards environment. Gave solutions to your 'if I turn it off, I have do this' direction. If asking you to learn and be better is vitriol, wow, you really need to take up meditation. People these days are turning into stupefied state when it comes to listening to others and adapting.

superczar said:

OS preference is of course , a choice.
But youd be overlooking a system that you’d be hard pressed to match even after spending 2X/3X the money or more.
For a change, Apple has started building VFM systems - arguably so after 2020 but it was debatable
This one otoh aces the price /value equation - to the extent that the rants on the interwebs are now largely about the power button placemen

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Na i dont want closed apple products at all. Linux for me. VFM only applies if you are happy with base specs and want to use macos. But i get it, it has unique pros of its own and mac laptops are supposed to have very good battery life.

I am happy with Linux for work and games and windows for the gaps that linux hasnt filled yet ( HDR mainly which would need effort from me on linux today ).

-------------------

Also, i prefer to just write a python/shell script to start everything from scratch when i want to. Need to do this anyway for my programs in work stuff and for outside work - there is nothing specific.
firefox and steam can be configured to autostart which works for me.

xfce used to have this feature to autoresume last session, KDE probably has it too. I tried it but did not really want it. Everday is a new day for me and scripts for automation.

-------------------

And yeah, this thread needs to cool down a bit maybe. Just let it be.

desiibond said:

OMFG. This shows how woeful your knowledge of both OSes is.

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This thread has gone way too much in a tangential direction.
I am unsure how something as mundane as a power button placement became such a hot topic so as to attract outright hostility and name calling
But hey, A new apple product has to mandatorily invite flames.. and if the power button placement is the only point of criticism left then surely that's a good thing

My heart beat is still pretty normal and no, I am not going to bite if I come across those with whom I had a debate.

Personally I am not aligned with Apple's thinking behind this design change. I don't believe its production cost so it has to be a conscious design change to wean users away from that on/off switch. In fact I will not be surprised if it disappears altogether in the next iteration. I wonder what Steve would think if he was around.
While the idle power consumption is fantastic and its probably negligible in a sleep state, I still switch off stuff when not in use. Now some may crib that starting and shutting off consume more power but in the long run if you are not using it 24x7, keeping it off means that it consumes no power. Moreover its a personal choice and I don't like that a company infringes that and forces stuff down everybody's throat. But with Apple you are locked in already, so you do not have any choice.
Can we make this a little palatable ? Yes !

• If you are installing it under the table, then it's not that bad.​
• If you just keep it on your desk and still need ready access, then just 3D print this, this, this or this. I love that last one. I will not be surprised if they built an entire industry behind this one power button ! Horizontal stands, here they come !​
• Mine goes behind the monitor and the button is still somewhat reachable -
  

  

desiibond said:

Did you not see my words 'both of you', referencing both of you in my reply?

These exact questions, ask yourself. I am just correcting few of you blindly supporting Apple design flaw and I am just asking you folks to try to be better towards environment. Gave solutions to your 'if I turn it off, I have do this' direction. If asking you to learn and be better is vitriol, wow, you really need to take up meditation. People these days are turning into stupefied state when it comes to listening to others and adapting.

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The power button is a flaw for some, but a feature for others. I fail to understand why you are spewing so much hate over it. People will vote with their wallets according to their requirements and use cases.

Regarding your comments about users turning off their systems, I think it is a user's personal choice. Why are you hell-bent on changing their behavior? This is a forum, and it would be appreciated if you would perhaps consider sharing constructive information instead of name-calling and having an elite attitude, telling members to go learn.

Back to the topic, Bought a base mini as a possible replacement for my windows HTPC. However, will probably end up using it to setup a new desktop. Text on an oled screen is not as crisp as I would like.

Power button on bottom is shit decision and smell like the same. Just recall when Apple decided to not include the Bluetooth in their iPhone. Later they find think about business with bluetooth earphone and they hell bent on going bluetooth like no day or night.

y2s said:

The power button is a flaw for some, but a feature for others.

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NO it is not a feature, its stupid design. PERIOD. This is the same company that put the mouse charging connector at the bottom. Since no one bought that mouse, it wasn't a big deal. M4 Mini is enticing even for windows users,so they are rightfully pissed off by this design.
Apple fanbois just tolerate like they always have with Apple's shitty spec offerings - 256 GB Storage & '8GB RAM in the past'. With every Apple's new release, there is more to complain and it'll happen again.

y2s said:

The power button is a flaw for some, but a feature for others. I fail to understand why you are spewing so much hate over it. People will vote with their wallets according to their requirements and use cases.

Regarding your comments about users turning off their systems, I think it is a user's personal choice. Why are you hell-bent on changing their behavior? This is a forum, and it would be appreciated if you would perhaps consider sharing constructive information instead of name-calling and having an elite attitude, telling members to go learn.

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Wow. Being oxymoron. Saying that power button placement being good is not asking others to align, me asking to save power is spewing hate, hell-bent on changing behavior? Do you guys even read what you post? Last time I checked, asking people to try to do something for good is not evil/elite/name-calling.

y2s said:

Back to the topic, Bought a base mini as a possible replacement for my windows HTPC. However, will probably end up using it to setup a new desktop. Text on an oled screen is not as crisp as I would like.

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Use BetterDisplay tool (available on GitHub) to set custom resolution. There are guides on reddit and YouTube. This is common process for those who use non-apple displays or displays that are not having specific resolution/dpi. Please don't say that you will not try this because I suggested.

PS: I am not spewing venom, just giving you a suggestion to get better display scaling.

ibose said:

Personally I am not aligned with Apple's thinking behind this design change. I don't believe its production cost so it has to be a conscious design change to wean users away from that on/off switch. In fact I will not be surprised if it disappears altogether in the next iteration. I wonder what Steve would think if he was around.
While the idle power consumption is fantastic and its probably negligible in a sleep state, I still switch off stuff when not in use. Now some may crib that starting and shutting off consume more power but in the long run if you are not using it 24x7, keeping it off means that it consumes no power. Moreover its a personal choice and I don't like that a company infringes that and forces stuff down everybody's throat. But with Apple you are locked in already, so you do not have any choice.
Can we make this a little palatable ? Yes !

• If you are installing it under the table, then it's not that bad.​
• If you just keep it on your desk and still need ready access, then just 3D print this, this, this or this. I love that last one. I will not be surprised if they built an entire industry behind this one power button ! Horizontal stands, here they come !​
• Mine goes behind the monitor and the button is still somewhat reachable -
  View attachment 214301​

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Man, it looks ugly af in this orientation and negates the entire 'look at my pretty apple computer' behaviour. Would not recommend this alignment if you run heavy stuff. That whole case works as passive heat sink as well so let the top be open to air/cooling from room. We will soon see web flooded with clickers, then you can change the orientation

desiibond said:

ugly

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Eh .. it's hidden behind a monitor. Unlike you I am not enamored by its looks, even though it's small and cute !

desiibond said:

That whole case works as passive heat sink as well so let the top be open to air/cooling from room.

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While that is true I didn't see much of an impact on the larger M1 Mini which I had also mounted the same way even with heavier workloads. The bottom vents are enough.

Can we PLEASE stop defending Apple for poor design decisions?

Apple is very anti-consumer company. Apple make it really hard to repair. I hate the most about apple is they basically the trend setter of bad stuff, that other companies follows: headphone jack removal, non replaceable battery, removal of charging brick, dumb notch etc..
People defend it now just like they defend all their purchases, because they want to be right.
I never got that that logic, if I buy something I critique the hell out of it because I want it to be better. Defending it is just going to cause complacency

ibose said:

Eh .. it's hidden behind a monitor. Unlike you I am not enamored by its looks, even though it's small and cute !

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That was sarcasm from me (about look). I would most probably go the same route as you if I have to have a Mac mini. Not a fan of stick under the table type with cables running across the table.

Pyception said:

Can we PLEASE stop defending Apple for poor design decisions?

Apple is very anti-consumer company. Apple make it really hard to repair. I hate the most about apple is they basically the trend setter of bad stuff, that other companies follows: headphone jack removal, non replaceable battery, removal of charging brick, dumb notch etc..
People defend it now just like they defend all their purchases, because they want to be right.
I never got that that logic, if I buy something I critique the hell out of it because I want it to be better. Defending it is just going to cause complacency

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This is standard/classic Apple user behavior. There are multiple stages to this.
Stage 1
This is called the XOXO stage. You are in absolute love with the product(s) and are learning the basics, praising it everywhere. If you start kissing and hugging these devices, you are on fast track to Stage F.
Stage 2
This is called the rage stage. You will not tolerate anyone saying anything bad about your iDarling and darlingOS. Anything negative, even if true, you will 'go ninja' on them. Many defending power button placement are currently at this stage. They may move to F or 3 later.
Stage F
This is called the iSheep stage. The pull towards Stage F is as strong as that of a blackhole. You are gone case and are at point of no return. You won't learn, you won't take suggestions and you won't let anyone talk bad. You live with all the issues that come with the products and software and brag about something unrelated to handle criticism. You act like you created Apple Inc, you have to protect the company with all your might from nonbelievers.
Stage 3
This is called 'revelation' stage. The pull from Stage F is immense and not everyone can skip that stage. A good part of Apple users move to this stage from Stage 2. As you get more and more used to these devices, you get to know that there are lot of flaws just like any other product from other side. Your intensity of supporting products comes down. You will still support them but you will lack aggression. You will start saying 'yeah, what to do, will have to live with it' instead of saying 'I don't care, it is not a problem for me'.
Stage 4
This stage is called 'zen' stage. You have seen everything and now you start to openly talk about the strengths and weaknesses of Apple product. You do not have the urge to vehemently support. You call a bad design bad, good design good. Your fight is mostly with those who wrongly accuse Apple products or try to troll. I am at this stage.

Pyception said:

People defend it now just like they defend all their purchases, because they want to be right.

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Most of the folks here purchase plenty of stuff and oft criticise the hell out of them.
But the criticism needs to be logical.
$200 upgrades for 256GB storage capacity jump is a very valid criticism. Thankfully easy to resolve on a desktop like this one but not so much on my laptops.

The meltdown on this thread about something as trivial as the placement of the power button is at the other end of the spectrum though

Darth Vader said:

NO it is not a feature, its stupid design. PERIOD. This is the same company that put the mouse charging connector at the bottom.

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For that one time I accidentally turned off the Mac mini, it's definitely a feature. The work I lost that day still haunts me (resume-apps-on-login feature doesn't work for me because I run a few apps through wine).

That other thing about the mouse — concensus on the internet is that two minutes of charging gets you a few hours of run time and a full charge is about two hours which can last a month or two.

That's around what I'm seeing with my MX 2S. And even though the charge port for this thing is in the front, I can't use it while charging because of the drag the cable introduces so I have to walk away for a while because the MX 2S doesn't that 2 minute fast charge feature.

How many actually use their wireless mouse while it's charging? Probably the same amount as a Apple mouse user — none. Or maybe the cable drag doesn't bother you, but it bothers me.

Personally, I wouldn't pay money for an Apple mouse, but I wouldn't refuse to use it if it was free/bundled. And since I'm never going to spend my own money for Apple's mouse, I never felt the need to criticise the charging cable location.

That's just my understanding. Thankfully, we live in a world where it's okay to disagree. At least on non-political matters.

desiibond said:

This is standard/classic Apple user behavior. There are multiple stages to this.

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Sounds like you're in a cult, probably a good idea to get out.

And I'm saying that as "one of the thousands" that cobbled together my own kernel extensions to get macOS running on unsupported hardware.

I'm not "supporting" Apple, I just don't share your strong feelings about their decisions because those decisions don't bother me.

rsaeon said:

How many actually use their wireless mouse while it's charging? Probably the same amount as a Apple mouse user — none. Or maybe the cable drag doesn't bother you, but it bothers me.

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This reminds me :
The Apple mouse was a bad product to begin with
The charging port placement was the least of the worries on mine because the damned mouse itself was weird and difficult to get used to.. so I stopped using it and got something else instead (Razer DA V2X)

The M4 mini otoh is a great product , no make it pretty awesome product
The power switch placement is once again the least of my worries about it
Even if I were the kind of person, who for whatever reason must switch off their PC everyday , It wouldn't have been a concern.. I'd have maybe printed a PLA switch to access it without lifting it up.. or gotten used to it in a week or so
Because end of the day, its a tiny little thing in the big picture view....end of story

PS: In case anyone wants these 3d printed doohickeys , let me know.. Happy to print as long as you can arrange a courier or self pickup

rsaeon said:

For that one time I accidentally turned off the Mac mini, it's definitely a feature. The work I lost that day still haunts me (resume-apps-on-login feature doesn't work for me because I run a few apps through wine).

That other thing about the mouse — concensus on the internet is that two minutes of charging gets you a few hours of run time and a full charge is about two hours which can last a month or two.

That's around what I'm seeing with my MX 2S. And even though the charge port for this thing is in the front, I can't use it while charging because of the drag the cable introduces so I have to walk away for a while because the MX 2S doesn't that 2 minute fast charge feature.

How many actually use their wireless mouse while it's charging? Probably the same amount as a Apple mouse user — none. Or maybe the cable drag doesn't bother you, but it bothers me.

Personally, I wouldn't pay money for an Apple mouse, but I wouldn't refuse to use it if it was free/bundled. And since I'm never going to spend my own money for Apple's mouse, I never felt the need to criticise the charging cable location.

That's just my understanding. Thankfully, we live in a world where it's okay to disagree. At least on non-political matters.



Sounds like you're in a cult, probably a good idea to get out.

And I'm saying that as "one of the thousands" that cobbled together my own kernel extensions to get macOS running on unsupported hardware.

I'm not "supporting" Apple, I just don't share your strong feelings about their decisions because those decisions don't bother me.

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And yet you did not know what you could have changed power button behavior by single command to not shutdown or to ask for confirmation to shutdown. Phew!!! This is serious amount of copium.
This happened to me once or twice. Unlike keeping it on 24x7x365, I just changed the behavior of power button to go to sleep. Like I said, start learning these simple things.
Coming to wireless mouse, yes I use it while charging even if it is for 10 minutes and there are many who does that. I do not wait till battery drains so whenever I remember, I just connect to cable, use it and then remove cable after sometime. Function over look. The port itself is facing away from user so there is no point in look going bad. This is what our point is about power button as well.

desiibond said:

And yet you did not know what you could have changed power button behavior by single command to not shutdown or to ask for confirmation to shutdown. Phew!!! This is serious amount of copium. Like I said, start learning these simple things.

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Putting aside your inability to speak to anyone without assuming they're stupid, enlighten me — what is that command? As far as I can find, there is none for a Mac desktop. There's a one-liner terminal command for laptops, but it doesn't work on the mini. Which brings us back to what I said earlier, your observations are out of place as you're not someone who uses macOS on a desktop.

Anyway, I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong and learn from you if you have a solution for this, because this is something I do care about.

desiibond said:

Would not recommend this alignment if you run heavy stuff. That whole case works as passive heat sink as well so let the top be open to air/cooling from room.

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To those who have a M4 now, how does it hold up under load? @superczar @y2s @ibose and anyone else I might have missed, my M1 regularly sees 100C under load and it's sitting in the normal position, even elevated off the desk: