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roadrash99 said:
@lged821 You can get all sides on legacy media too, tell me which side is only found on twitter and I will tell you the legacy traditional media outlet representing it. Problem with Twitter is that it's a popularity contest, so people make things up. It's like getting your news from the kid in school who used to exaggerate everything.
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I believe what you are saying about X or SM, it's true multifold for MSM. At least on X/SM, we get to hear from unpaid or "not on any side" people which isn't/wasn't the case in MSM. Of course you have to select the sources who you believe to be trustworthy and take troubles of confirmation and validation, which is even true for MSM.

X/SM is not exactly but nearest thing to TE like Peer to Peer trust based platform.
 
roadrash99 said:
@lged821 You can get all sides on legacy media too, tell me which side is only found on twitter and I will tell you the legacy traditional media outlet representing it. Problem with Twitter is that it's a popularity contest, so people make things up. It's like getting your news from the kid in school who used to exaggerate everything.
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I can and have, but then things will become political. I am not on any side, but I am for transparency. Kids might exaggerate but kids are innocent and are neither paid nor political. Journo's in MSM are paid and have political bias. I am fine with popularity contest or even fake news as long as I see people countering that fake news in comments.

If we agree (and I hope we agree) that we are for free speech, then free speech comes at the cost of fake news and hate speech as well and we need to be okay with it otherwise we might call ourselves liberals or for free speech but then anyone who disagree with us we just label them propaganda or hate speech and persecute them by labelling them as authoritarian and undemocratic.

Prime example was hunter Biden story before US elections of 2020 which was suppressed and I am sure we will find people here saying hunter Biden was right even though he was pardoned by authoritarian executive order. But at least X got me both the sides. Same in case of that debate where trump lied about immigrants eating people and X showed me it was fake news. I don't like the idea of people telling me watch MSM, I won't ever. I am a free speech absolutist like musk or Anand Ranganathan (even though I know it can come at the cost of anarchy) and I know in many many cases both musk and Anand have been wrong as well but how did I got to know about this? via X. Will a MSM ever admit they broadcasted fake news unless there was a court order (till then the damage is done).

I don't like the idea of controlling news is sole authority of people making millions and paying lakhs to fake journo's in their AC rooms and broadcasting news only via news agencies like PTI or ANI. X even though bought by a millionaire but I don't know a single news item which isn't on X or counter argument doesn't exist there, it does. Even though I know musk controls X but I have seen tons of his posts getting ratio 'ed by other side of political spectrum and that's the beauty of it. People love to remain in echo chambers to get validation of political biases that they might have, X on the other hand makes you feel free, makes you feel uncomfortable as well coz you see stuff which doesn't suit your political bias which is great as well. That's why the block button exists and to top it all, if someone blocks me or I block someone I can still see their posts and updates, I just can't interact with them which maintains great balance of privacy and at the same time transparency and free speech.

As I said before, we are the media now :p X is the media now. It isn't a perfect system but it is 100x better than any MSM and will remain so until a new system comes in. I am guessing de-centralization might do this but we are long way to go there.
 
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lged821 said:
Prime example was hunter Biden story before US elections of 2020 which was suppressed and I am sure we will find people here saying hunter Biden was right even though he was pardoned by authoritarian executive order. But at least X got me both the sides.
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You were not able to find that story on mainstream media?? The story itself was broken by New York Post, a right wing news outlet.
lged821 said:
I can and have, but then things will become political.
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From left to right and everything in between there is a news outlet for everything. Everyone likes to think their side is the underdog and being oppressed.
 
roadrash99 said:
You were not able to find that story on mainstream media?? The story itself was broken by New York Post, a right wing news outlet.

From left to right and everything in between there is a news outlet for everything. Everyone likes to think their side is the underdog and being oppressed.
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exactly the reason why I prefer X. MSM can become echo chamber very easily.

And about hunter biden story, I meant people who suppressed it at the time were the owners of twitter.
roadrash99 said:
From left to right and everything in between there is a news outlet for everything. Everyone likes to think their side is the underdog and being oppressed.
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I don't like even the labels of left right etc. I have found enough rw supporting the idea of free speech but being labelled conservatives and left calling themselves democratic and free speech supporters but then keeping quite when hunter biden was pardoned by biden. I even know many in the left who are conservative in personal life but left politically. So labels doesn't make sense atleast in Indian context.
 
lged821 said:
So labels doesn't make sense atleast in Indian context.
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They are not everything, sure, but they are also not useless. Labels exist because most thoughts that come in people's heads are not original, and can be placed on the left-right spectrum pretty easily. What you use the labels for, is a different matter. You can agree with the left on some things and right on others, the labels are for the ideas, not the people. But it's also true that political ideologues can indeed be put a label on as they are forced to take the party position on everything. I also feel sites like Twitter create more ideologues among the general public, not less.
 
roadrash99 said:
They are not everything, sure, but they are also not useless. Labels exist because most thoughts that come in people's heads are not original, and can be placed on the left-right spectrum pretty easily. What you use the labels for, is a different matter. You can agree with the left on some things and right on others, the labels are for the ideas, not the people. But it's also true that political ideologues can indeed be put a label on as they are forced to take the party position on everything. I also feel sites like Twitter create more ideologues among the general public, not less.
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There you go, we can agree to disagree on this. I just think labelling just gives one side (who starts the labelling) a justification to kill a person or group of people or hate people/group of people. Labelling is done to divide people, to choose sides, to make sure the other side of the spectrum is hated to the core and to fool people.

roadrash99 said:
I also feel sites like Twitter create more ideologues among the general public, not less.
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and what's wrong with this? as long as those ideologues understand there exist nuances.
 
lged821 said:
and what's wrong with this? as long as those ideologues understand there exist nuances.
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Ideologues by definition don't understand nuances. Social media algorithms don't promote nuance. They are for entertainment, good for finding movies, songs, videos you might like, but that method doesn't work for news, only creates echo chambers.
lged821 said:
I just think labelling just gives one side (who starts the labelling) a justification to kill a person or group of people or hate people/group of people. Labelling is done to divide people, to choose sides, to make sure the other side of the spectrum is hated to the core and to fool people.
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Like I said this is the part where what you do with the labels comes in. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it should be called a duck. That doesn't mean I'm promoting killing ducks.
 
roadrash99 said:
Ideologues by definition don't understand nuances. Social media algorithms don't promote nuance.
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huh? what? Have you tried "for you" section of X rather just than the "following" section? Follow section literally remains echo chamber if you are an ideologue, where as for you section is exactly the opposite. Social media, atleast X heavily promotes nuance.

roadrash99 said:
Like I said this is the part where what you do with the labels comes in. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it should be called a duck. That doesn't mean I'm promoting killing ducks.
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That's like saying I agree with Nazis but not Hitler. You can feel free to divide people based on labelling, I'll never buy the concept but I do get it as it remains quite appealing and most people buy into it, specially the ideologues. But as I said, I don't have a problem with ideologues, I have seen people getting radicalized by X and I have seen radicals getting civilized by X too.
 
lged821 said:
huh? what? Have you tried "for you" section of X rather just than the "following" section? Follow section literally remains echo chamber if you are an ideologue, where as for you section is exactly the opposite. Social media, atleast X heavily promotes nuance.
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That hasn't been my experience, I exclusively follow tech people on twitter, boring professors and startup founders, yet my feed is full of US conservative politics and culture war nonsense and 50% seems to be just Elon tweets.
lged821 said:
That's like saying I agree with Nazis but not Hitler. You can feel free to divide people based on labelling, I'll never buy the concept but I do get it as it remains quite appealing and most people buy into it, specially the ideologues. But as I said, I don't have a problem with ideologues, I have seen people getting radicalized by X and I have seen radicals getting civilized by X too.
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My main point is that all social media algorithms prioritise engagement and that doesn't make for a good news source. It just feeds you what people are most outraged about. The whole label thing - is not really relevant here as it's not like people will not label you on twitter based on a couple of tweets.
Kevin Lane said:
I believe what you are saying about X or SM, it's true multifold for MSM. At least on X/SM, we get to hear from unpaid or "not on any side" people which isn't/wasn't the case in MSM. Of course you have to select the sources who you believe to be trustworthy and take troubles of confirmation and validation, which is even true for MSM.

X/SM is not exactly but nearest thing to TE like Peer to Peer trust based platform.
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Legacy media != MSM

There were and fortunately continue to be independent reader supported legacy media outlets on all points of the political spectrum. All journalists are on social media too these days and I don't see anything wrong with it, but even they don't treat it as anything more than linking to their articles. There is value in the curation and editorial process. If someone wants to be first on twitter they indiscriminately tweet out everything they can find then quietly delete stuff that turns out to be wrong (or, as I have often seen, unpopular).
 
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I use reddit a bit, mostly just for lurking so I have joined multiple news related subreddits, the only downside of this is most Indian news related subreddits tend to be either heavily left or right leaning not really neutral.
 
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